Thread: New PostgreSQL T-Shirt
We make a new PostgreSQL T-Shirt for the 20 years aniversary. It's based in a picture i saw on internet from Gabriele Bartolini.
--
If any one want to use the art, be my guest: http://savepoint.blog.br/download/elefante_postgreSQL.pdf
Atenciosamente,
Fábio Telles Rodriguez
blog: http://savepoint.blog.bre-mail / gtalk / MSN: fabio.telles@gmail.com
Skype: fabio_telles
Timbira - A empresa brasileira de Postgres
Attachment
On 07/05/2016 10:41 AM, Fábio Telles Rodriguez wrote: > We make a new PostgreSQL T-Shirt for the 20 years aniversary. It's based > in a picture i saw on internet from Gabriele Bartolini. > > If any one want to use the art, be my guest: > http://savepoint.blog.br/download/elefante_postgreSQL.pdf Love it, but I hear the AC/DC lawyers circling as we speak:) > > > > -- > Atenciosamente, > Fábio Telles Rodriguez > blog: http:// <http://www.midstorm.org/~telles/>s > <http://tellesr.wordpress.com/>avepoint.blog.br <http://avepoint.blog.br> > e-mail / gtalk / MSN: fabio.telles@gmail.com <mailto:fabio.telles@gmail.com> > Skype: fabio_telles > > Timbira - A empresa brasileira de Postgres > http://www.timbira.com.br > > > -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@aklaver.com
On 2016-07-05 10:41 AM, Fábio Telles Rodriguez wrote: > We make a new PostgreSQL T-Shirt for the 20 years aniversary. It's based in a > picture i saw on internet from Gabriele Bartolini. > > If any one want to use the art, be my guest: > http://savepoint.blog.br/download/elefante_postgreSQL.pdf Putting aside the merits of the shirts themselves, that image should not have been an email attachment, rather it should have been a web link, we don't want to bloat emails. -- Darren Duncan
On 07/05/2016 02:25 PM, Darren Duncan wrote: > On 2016-07-05 10:41 AM, Fábio Telles Rodriguez wrote: >> We make a new PostgreSQL T-Shirt for the 20 years aniversary. It's >> based in a >> picture i saw on internet from Gabriele Bartolini. >> >> If any one want to use the art, be my guest: >> http://savepoint.blog.br/download/elefante_postgreSQL.pdf > > Putting aside the merits of the shirts themselves, that image should not > have been an email attachment, rather it should have been a web link, we > don't want to bloat emails. -- Darren Duncan Meh. I think it is perfectly acceptable to email an advocacy PDF to the advocacy group. JD > > > -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them.
On 07/05/2016 10:41 AM, Fábio Telles Rodriguez wrote: > We make a new PostgreSQL T-Shirt for the 20 years aniversary. It's based > in a picture i saw on internet from Gabriele Bartolini. > > If any one want to use the art, be my guest: > http://savepoint.blog.br/download/elefante_postgreSQL.pdf Thanks! It's really past time for me to move the US store to CustomInk. I'll see what I can do. -- -- Josh Berkus Red Hat OSAS (any opinions are my own)
On 5 July 2016 at 18:41, Fábio Telles Rodriguez <fabio.telles@gmail.com> wrote:
Wow, what a rip off! It isn't just based on Gabriele's work, its a copy as close as possible. A deliberate, detailed fraud, since I already know that Gabriele wanted to keep that design private. You're either violating Gabriele's or AC/DC's copyright, maybe both.
--
We make a new PostgreSQL T-Shirt for the 20 years aniversary. It's based in a picture i saw on internet from Gabriele Bartolini.If any one want to use the art, be my guest: http://savepoint.blog.br/download/elefante_postgreSQL.pdf
Is that what our community has come to? You just rip off somebody else, claim you added some value and then make money for yourself while claiming its been done in the name of our community?
Please take that down immediately. I'm sure nobody here would defend such blatantly negative actions.
Simon Riggs http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
Hi,
I am pasting the comment that I have submitted (still waiting for moderation) in this page: http://savepoint.blog.br/camiseta-comemorativa-dos-20-anos-do-postgresql/
***
Hello, I am the original creator of the t-shirt. I am quite disappointed you say you have tried to reach me as I have not received any email from you whatsoever regarding this topic.
That idea is personal as it represents myself as a PostgreSQL lover, a guitar lover and an AC/DC lover. Most importantly, It is not supposed to be sold.
Also, if you had really tried to reach me as you say, we could have seriously evaluated donating the graphic design to the PostgreSQL community, or releasing it under a Creative Commons license. We originally created this graphic design and the t-shirts for our company’s use.
***
Ciao,
Gabriele
--
Gabriele Bartolini - 2ndQuadrant Italia - Director
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
gabriele.bartolini@2ndQuadrant.it | www.2ndQuadrant.it
Gabriele Bartolini - 2ndQuadrant Italia - Director
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
gabriele.bartolini@2ndQuadrant.it | www.2ndQuadrant.it
2016-07-06 17:09 GMT+02:00 Simon Riggs <simon@2ndquadrant.com>:
On 5 July 2016 at 18:41, Fábio Telles Rodriguez <fabio.telles@gmail.com> wrote:We make a new PostgreSQL T-Shirt for the 20 years aniversary. It's based in a picture i saw on internet from Gabriele Bartolini.If any one want to use the art, be my guest: http://savepoint.blog.br/download/elefante_postgreSQL.pdfWow, what a rip off! It isn't just based on Gabriele's work, its a copy as close as possible. A deliberate, detailed fraud, since I already know that Gabriele wanted to keep that design private. You're either violating Gabriele's or AC/DC's copyright, maybe both.Is that what our community has come to? You just rip off somebody else, claim you added some value and then make money for yourself while claiming its been done in the name of our community?Please take that down immediately. I'm sure nobody here would defend such blatantly negative actions.--Simon Riggs http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
On 07/06/2016 08:09 AM, Simon Riggs wrote: > Wow, what a rip off! It isn't just based on Gabriele's work, its a copy > as close as possible. A deliberate, detailed fraud, since I already know > that Gabriele wanted to keep that design private. You're either > violating Gabriele's or AC/DC's copyright, maybe both. > > Is that what our community has come to? You just rip off somebody else, > claim you added some value and then make money for yourself while > claiming its been done in the name of our community? This response is way out of control. Fabio has been the mainstay of our Brazillian community for many years -- at least as long as you've been involved with Postgres. It's one thing to request that something be taken down; it's another thing entirely to launch a vicious attack on the motives and integrity of another community member. Your words were entirely unjustified and clearly aimed at harming Fabio. There are "blatantly negative actions" here, but I'm afraid they're yours. -- -- Josh Berkus Red Hat OSAS (any opinions are my own)
On 07/06/2016 08:43 AM, Gabriele Bartolini wrote: > Also, if you had really tried to reach me as you say, we could have > seriously evaluated donating the graphic design to the PostgreSQL > community, or releasing it under a Creative Commons license. We > originally created this graphic design and the t-shirts for our > company’s use. Fabio, could you take down/lock up the files at Savepoint.br for now? -- -- Josh Berkus Red Hat OSAS (any opinions are my own)
2016-07-06 12:49 GMT-03:00 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>:
On 07/06/2016 08:43 AM, Gabriele Bartolini wrote:
> Also, if you had really tried to reach me as you say, we could have
> seriously evaluated donating the graphic design to the PostgreSQL
> community, or releasing it under a Creative Commons license. We
> originally created this graphic design and the t-shirts for our
> company’s use.
Fabio, could you take down/lock up the files at Savepoint.br for now?
Sorry, i never intend to make these mess.. I already take it down now. Just to be clear: I never make money with T-shirts.
My apologize for all, i was just trying to make some nice T-shirt and help postgres comunity.
--
--
Josh Berkus
Red Hat OSAS
(any opinions are my own)
Atenciosamente,
Fábio Telles Rodriguez
blog: http://savepoint.blog.bre-mail / gtalk / MSN: fabio.telles@gmail.com
Skype: fabio_telles
Timbira - A empresa brasileira de Postgres
On 6 July 2016 at 17:02, Fábio Telles Rodriguez <fabio.telles@gmail.com> wrote:
--
Sorry, i never intend to make these mess.. I already take it down now. Just to be clear: I never make money with T-shirts.My apologize for all, i was just trying to make some nice T-shirt and help postgres comunity.
Thank you for the apology and for taking down the design.
Simon Riggs http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
On 07/06/2016 09:02 AM, Fábio Telles Rodriguez wrote: > > > 2016-07-06 12:49 GMT-03:00 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com > <mailto:josh@agliodbs.com>>: > > On 07/06/2016 08:43 AM, Gabriele Bartolini wrote: > > Also, if you had really tried to reach me as you say, we could have > > seriously evaluated donating the graphic design to the PostgreSQL > > community, or releasing it under a Creative Commons license. We > > originally created this graphic design and the t-shirts for our > > company’s use. > > Fabio, could you take down/lock up the files at Savepoint.br for now? > > > Sorry, i never intend to make these mess.. I already take it down now. > Just to be clear: I never make money with T-shirts. > > My apologize for all, i was just trying to make some nice T-shirt and > help postgres comunity. I know you were. I just want to make the design not publicly available while we talk this out. -- -- Josh Berkus Red Hat OSAS (any opinions are my own)
Le 06.07.2016 17:09, Simon Riggs a écrit : > On 5 July 2016 at 18:41, Fábio Telles Rodriguez > <fabio.telles@gmail.com> wrote: > >> We make a new PostgreSQL T-Shirt for the 20 years aniversary. It's >> based in a picture i saw on internet from Gabriele Bartolini. >> >> If any one want to use the art, be my guest: >> http://savepoint.blog.br/download/elefante_postgreSQL.pdf > > Wow, what a rip off! It isn't just based on Gabriele's work, its a > copy as close as possible. A deliberate, detailed fraud, since I > already know that Gabriele wanted to keep that design private. You're > either violating Gabriele's or AC/DC's copyright, maybe both. > > Is that what our community has come to? You just rip off somebody > else, claim you added some value and then make money for yourself > while claiming its been done in the name of our community? > That's just my two cents but I'm really stunned by the agressivity of your message Simon. This is the internet. You find material and most of the time there's no indication of any copyright or license. And inside the PostgreSQL community, it's a fair bet to assume that promotional material is available under a permissive licence. I believe that Fabio was just trying to promote PostgreSQL. I think going so hard on him for his mistake is a very bad message to the community. We're all here to promote Postgres. Marketing is not our primary job and we need more indulgence when people make mistakes. Fun fact : in 2013, I designed a poster called "Keep Calm and use Postgres" [1]. Early that year 2ndQuadrant released a keyring using exactly the same design [2]. AFAIK nobody from 2ndQuadrant has ever reached me about that and I met some employees of the company in person during the last weeks... I'm perfectly fine with 2ndQuadrant using my design to promote its brand. But my irony sense is tingling when I see you talking about copyright violations.... Definitely let's Keep Calm and Use PostgreSQL ;-) [1] https://github.com/postgresqlfr/pgfr_materials/blob/master/advocacy/posters/keepcalm/Keep-calm-and-use-postgres.png [2] https://twitter.com/2ndquad/status/722697976896991232 -- -- Damien Clochard
On 07/06/2016 09:39 AM, Damien Clochard wrote: > Le 06.07.2016 17:09, Simon Riggs a écrit : >> On 5 July 2016 at 18:41, Fábio Telles Rodriguez >> <fabio.telles@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> We make a new PostgreSQL T-Shirt for the 20 years aniversary. It's >>> based in a picture i saw on internet from Gabriele Bartolini. >>> >>> If any one want to use the art, be my guest: >>> http://savepoint.blog.br/download/elefante_postgreSQL.pdf >> >> Wow, what a rip off! It isn't just based on Gabriele's work, its a >> copy as close as possible. A deliberate, detailed fraud, since I >> already know that Gabriele wanted to keep that design private. You're >> either violating Gabriele's or AC/DC's copyright, maybe both. >> >> Is that what our community has come to? You just rip off somebody >> else, claim you added some value and then make money for yourself >> while claiming its been done in the name of our community? >> > > That's just my two cents but I'm really stunned by the agressivity of > your message Simon. No kidding, and people call me aggressive. Simon you owe Fabio an apology. Heck in the original message Fabio even provides contribution to Gabriele. I see that Gabriele responded. As he is the *only* person that has right to grievance here, Simon perhaps you should take his lead and see the very reasonable response he had. > > This is the internet. You find material and most of the time there's no > indication of any copyright or license. And inside the PostgreSQL > community, it's a fair bet to assume that promotional material is > available under a permissive licence. True but also wrong. You should never assume a permissive license. That is a recipe for trouble. > > I believe that Fabio was just trying to promote PostgreSQL. I think > going so hard on him for his mistake is a very bad message to the > community. We're all here to promote Postgres. Marketing is not our > primary job and we need more indulgence when people make mistakes. Agreed and we also need to remember that -advocacy is just as important as the code. If we have bad -advocacy people aren't going to use our code. Sincerely, JD > > [1] > https://github.com/postgresqlfr/pgfr_materials/blob/master/advocacy/posters/keepcalm/Keep-calm-and-use-postgres.png > > [2] https://twitter.com/2ndquad/status/722697976896991232 > > -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them.
2016-07-06 13:02 GMT-03:00 Fábio Telles Rodriguez <fabio.telles@gmail.com>:
-- 2016-07-06 12:49 GMT-03:00 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>:On 07/06/2016 08:43 AM, Gabriele Bartolini wrote:
> Also, if you had really tried to reach me as you say, we could have
> seriously evaluated donating the graphic design to the PostgreSQL
> community, or releasing it under a Creative Commons license. We
> originally created this graphic design and the t-shirts for our
> company’s use.
Fabio, could you take down/lock up the files at Savepoint.br for now?Sorry, i never intend to make these mess.. I already take it down now. Just to be clear: I never make money with T-shirts.My apologize for all, i was just trying to make some nice T-shirt and help postgres comunity.
Just to give a feedback:
All the T-shirts already made was destroyed and the people who bought it will be refunded. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Regards,
Fabio Telles
Atenciosamente,
Fábio Telles Rodriguez
blog: http://savepoint.blog.bre-mail / gtalk / MSN: fabio.telles@gmail.com
Skype: fabio_telles
Timbira - A empresa brasileira de Postgres
On 07/12/2016 11:03 AM, Fábio Telles Rodriguez wrote: > All the T-shirts already made was destroyed and the people who bought it > will be refunded. Sorry for the inconvenience. That seems excessive. If I'd known you were going to do that, I'd have tried to talk you out of it. -- -- Josh Berkus Red Hat OSAS (any opinions are my own)
On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
>
> On 07/12/2016 11:03 AM, Fábio Telles Rodriguez wrote:
>
> > All the T-shirts already made was destroyed and the people who bought it
> > will be refunded. Sorry for the inconvenience.
>
> That seems excessive. If I'd known you were going to do that, I'd have
> tried to talk you out of it.
>
Fabio just did his best to promote PostgreSQL and celebrate the 20th anniversary here in Brazil, specially because tomorrow will start the FISL (International Free Software Forum) here in Porto Alegre and we organize a PGDay [1] inside the event to celebrate the 20th anniversary and also the 10th anniversary of the Brazilian Community.
Regards,
[1] softwarelivre.org/fisl17/programacao/minieventos
[2] http://softwarelivre.org/fisl17/programacao/pgday-poa
--
Fabrízio de Royes Mello
Consultoria/Coaching PostgreSQL
>> Timbira: http://www.timbira.com.br
>> Blog: http://fabriziomello.github.io
>> Linkedin: http://br.linkedin.com/in/fabriziomello
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/fabriziomello
>> Github: http://github.com/fabriziomello
"rollback" - nice to close out a sad thread with a little database humor, well done.<br /><br /><br /><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On7/12/2016 3:02 PM, Fabrízio de Royes Mello wrote:<br /></div><blockquote cite="mid:CAFcNs+pW2iz3i15PMmM4Z4vSUEAE+Ca0-a3QrWgHTuOTYiCRbw@mail.gmail.com"type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><br /><br />On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Josh Berkus <<a href="mailto:josh@agliodbs.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"href="mailto:josh@agliodbs.com">josh@agliodbs.com</a></a>> wrote:<br /> ><br /> >On 07/12/2016 11:03 AM, Fábio Telles Rodriguez wrote:<br /> ><br /> > > All the T-shirts already made was destroyedand the people who bought it<br /> > > will be refunded. Sorry for the inconvenience.<br /> ><br /> >That seems excessive. If I'd known you were going to do that, I'd have<br /> > tried to talk you out of it.<br />><br /><br /></div> We talked a lot about that and as Fabio received an *excessive* negative feedback we decided rollbackall the operation.<br /><div><br /></div><div>Fabio just did his best to promote PostgreSQL and celebrate the 20thanniversary here in Brazil, specially because tomorrow will start the FISL (International Free Software Forum) here inPorto Alegre and we organize a PGDay [1] inside the event to celebrate the 20th anniversary and also the 10th anniversaryof the Brazilian Community.<br /></div><div><br /></div><div>Regards,<br /><br /></div><div><br /> [1] <a href="http://softwarelivre.org/fisl17/programacao/minieventos" moz-do-not-send="true">softwarelivre.org/fisl17/programacao/minieventos</a><br/> [2] <a href="http://softwarelivre.org/fisl17/programacao/pgday-poa" moz-do-not-send="true">http://softwarelivre.org/fisl17/programacao/pgday-poa</a><br/><br /> --<br /> Fabrízio de Royes Mello<br/> Consultoria/Coaching PostgreSQL<br /> >> Timbira: <a href="http://www.timbira.com.br" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.timbira.com.br</a><br/> >> Blog: <a href="http://fabriziomello.github.io" moz-do-not-send="true">http://fabriziomello.github.io</a><br/> >> Linkedin: <a href="http://br.linkedin.com/in/fabriziomello"moz-do-not-send="true">http://br.linkedin.com/in/fabriziomello</a><br /> >>Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/fabriziomello" moz-do-not-send="true">http://twitter.com/fabriziomello</a><br/> >> Github: <a href="http://github.com/fabriziomello" moz-do-not-send="true">http://github.com/fabriziomello</a></div></div></blockquote><br/><div class="moz-signature">-- <br/><small><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"> Ned Lilly<br /><small><small>President and CEO<br /><img src="cid:part9.03040403.08040606@xtuple.com"width="150" /><p><a href="mailto:ned@xTuple.com">ned@xTuple.com</a> // <a href="tel:+1-757-461-3022">+1-757-461-3022</a>x101<br /> Master your supply chain with <a href="http://xTuple.com">xTuple.com</a>– World’s #1 open source ERP <br /> Manufacturing – Distribution – eCommerce </small></small><p><small><small>Tell us how we’re doing: <a href="http://xTuple.com/survey">Customer Satisfaction Survey</a></small></small></font></small></div>
On 07/12/2016 12:02 PM, Fabrízio de Royes Mello wrote: > > Fabio just did his best to promote PostgreSQL and celebrate the 20th > anniversary here in Brazil, specially because tomorrow will start the > FISL (International Free Software Forum) here in Porto Alegre and we > organize a PGDay [1] inside the event to celebrate the 20th anniversary > and also the 10th anniversary of the Brazilian Community. Exactly what I was thinking ... -- -- Josh Berkus Red Hat OSAS (any opinions are my own)
>>On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 07/12/2016 11:03 AM, Fábio Telles Rodriguez wrote:
>>
>> > All the T-shirts already made was destroyed and the people who bought it
>> > will be refunded. Sorry for the inconvenience.
>>
>> That seems excessive. If I'd known you were going to do that, I'd have
>> tried to talk you out of it.
>>
>>
>> On 07/12/2016 11:03 AM, Fábio Telles Rodriguez wrote:
>>
>> > All the T-shirts already made was destroyed and the people who bought it
>> > will be refunded. Sorry for the inconvenience.
>>
>> That seems excessive. If I'd known you were going to do that, I'd have
>> tried to talk you out of it.
>>
>We talked a lot about that and as Fabio received an *excessive* negative feedback we decided rollback all the operation.
>
>
>Fabio just did his best to promote PostgreSQL and celebrate the 20th anniversary here in Brazil, specially because tomorrow will start >the FISL (International Free Software Forum) here in Porto Alegre and we organize a PGDay [1] inside the event to celebrate the 20th >anniversary and also the 10th anniversary of the Brazilian Community.
I am missing a clear statement here as I can not see that Fabio tried to gain any personal benefit out of this .... and I have the feeling that Fabio somehow is the bad guy ..... for what ???? @Fabio: I am with you. I believe this needs to be said. If someone does not agree with others actions then start talking, not blaming.
Regards,
Daniel
On 07/12/2016 12:24 PM, Daniel Westermann wrote: > I am missing a clear statement here as I can not see that Fabio tried > to gain any personal benefit out of this .... and I have the feeling > that Fabio somehow is the bad guy ..... for what ???? @Fabio: I am with > you. I believe this needs to be said. If someone does not agree with > others actions then start talking, not blaming. Frankly, I think this whole thing was an overreaction. Sincerely, JD -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them.
On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:02 PM, Fabrízio de Royes Mello <fabriziomello@gmail.com> wrote: > We talked a lot about that and as Fabio received an *excessive* negative > feedback we decided rollback all the operation. > I agree about the unnecessary excessive negative feedback. Personally, I'm with Fabio on that. Luca
On 6 July 2016 at 12:39, Damien Clochard <damien@dalibo.info> wrote:
--
Le 06.07.2016 17:09, Simon Riggs a écrit :On 5 July 2016 at 18:41, Fábio Telles Rodriguez
<fabio.telles@gmail.com> wrote:We make a new PostgreSQL T-Shirt for the 20 years aniversary. It's
based in a picture i saw on internet from Gabriele Bartolini.
If any one want to use the art, be my guest:
http://savepoint.blog.br/download/elefante_postgreSQL.pdf
Wow, what a rip off! It isn't just based on Gabriele's work, its a
copy as close as possible. A deliberate, detailed fraud, since I
already know that Gabriele wanted to keep that design private. You're
either violating Gabriele's or AC/DC's copyright, maybe both.
Is that what our community has come to? You just rip off somebody
else, claim you added some value and then make money for yourself
while claiming its been done in the name of our community?
That's just my two cents but I'm really stunned by the agressivity of your message Simon.
This is the internet. You find material and most of the time there's no indication of any copyright or license. And inside the PostgreSQL community, it's a fair bet to assume that promotional material is available under a permissive licence.
I believe that Fabio was just trying to promote PostgreSQL. I think going so hard on him for his mistake is a very bad message to the community. We're all here to promote Postgres. Marketing is not our primary job and we need more indulgence when people make mistakes.
Fun fact : in 2013, I designed a poster called "Keep Calm and use Postgres" [1]. Early that year 2ndQuadrant released a keyring using exactly the same design [2]. AFAIK nobody from 2ndQuadrant has ever reached me about that and I met some employees of the company in person during the last weeks... I'm perfectly fine with 2ndQuadrant using my design to promote its brand. But my irony sense is tingling when I see you talking about copyright violations....
Definitely let's Keep Calm and Use PostgreSQL ;-)
[1] https://github.com/postgresqlfr/pgfr_materials/blob/master/advocacy/posters/keepcalm/Keep-calm-and-use-postgres.png
[2] https://twitter.com/2ndquad/status/722697976896991232
Hi Damien,
Sorry to hear that you are upset about the keyring. I confirm that was not copied from you, nor would we ever do that. The phrase "Keep Calm and ..." is an old British phrase from wartime and is no longer copyrighted; it is now in very common use to promote ideas and products and as a joke, so its a natural and simple thing for a British company to use. I was not aware that you had issued something similar.
The key differences between the two cases are
1. Awareness - the design wasn't knowingly copied from you - your keyring was in 2013, the later ones from 2ndQ were produced in 2016
2. Ownership - you don't own that design and acknowledge in the repo that you sourced the idea from somewhere else
3. Complexity - the design did not take many hours of detailed work to copy; it was not highly distinctive and original
4. Money - the new keyring was not being sold, it was being given away freely to promote Postgres
Fabio has apologised and for me that matter is done. Promoting Postgres does not excuse us from other more basic matters. Yes, mistakes occur - they can be forgiven, and have been, by me.
Now that you have highlighted the freely available French marketing materials to me, I will use them to promote Postgres. Thank you, very useful.
Simon Riggs http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
Ciao!
2016-07-12 21:02 GMT+02:00 Fabrízio de Royes Mello <fabriziomello@gmail.com>:
Gabriele Bartolini - 2ndQuadrant Italia - Director
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
Fabio just did his best to promote PostgreSQL and celebrate the 20th anniversary here in Brazil, specially because tomorrow will start the FISL (International Free Software Forum) here in Porto Alegre and we organize a PGDay [1] inside the event to celebrate the 20th anniversary and also the 10th anniversary of the Brazilian Community.
I was undecided whether to answer or not but since this thread is taking a turn that does not serve the community, I feel compelled to respond. Unfortunately, I feel that it must be noted that apart from Simon and Joshua, no one thought of me. This is not a problem for me, however, I wish that everything had not been taken so seriously and everyone could move on without hard feelings, I feel that the discussion has gone far enough.
First of all, I believe Fabio in his desire to promote PostgreSQL in Brazil through this cause and not for personal gain. Unfortunately, however, I believe that Fabio approached the situation in a frivolous/naive way. I will try and explain better: Once he saw my photo on Twitter with the ACID shirt (https://twitter.com/_GBartolini_/status/657515128091471873), he could have taken the time to contact me and explain the project so that I could evaluate it and possibly be an active participant in the project (just an example: Rubens, a colleague in 2ndQuadrant Italy, is from Brazil and he would have enjoyed participating in this effort). Unfortunately, this did not happen, but again, this is not a problem for me.
To avoid any confusion, I never thought, in any way, to act on a legal level (what for? also, because the clear reference to AC/DC was the main reason why we had to delay the public release of the design). However, there is no question in the fact that I am personally disappointed that I learned of it only after the fact versus being contacted directly, because the design is important to me personally.
Among other things, in reference to the idea from Damien of the "Keep Calm and Use Postgres" design, I can hardly keep the two situations on the same level and I would like to share my personal opinion on this. Playing the electric guitar is my favourite hobby and AC/DC (also combined with my strong bond with Australia) is one of my favourite rock bands. Last year I was at a conference in Milan to make a presentation on PostgreSQL and after I finished the slides, while listening to AC/DC (obviously), I slipped in the shower. I started singing a refrain of AC/DC and I had the vision of ACID ;)
Everyone on the Italian team liked the idea and we DECIDED together to commission the original work to our graphic designer Valentino, who designed the entire graphic from scratch. We all loved it and pursued the idea of making the t-shirt, which was intended for our use only. We all wore it with pride at PGConf.eu 2015 and received excellent feedback. Some people even approached me and asked to buy the rights for the design, but due to the personal nature of the concept and the artwork, I have always struggled with this idea.
So, now you may say: so what? Well, I have simply decided to share my view on this. My goal is not for anyone in this list to take my side or Fabio's, but rather learn from this incident for the future. I know that Simon's initial reaction was to defend my position (and I thank him for that) and because he knows how much I care about that shirt and about how much we have invested in it (creativity, time, money, etc.).
What we all want is a bright future for PostgreSQL and our global community. And I am happy that people enjoyed the fun design of the shirt!
Finally, some advice I always keep in mind, which describes once again my personality (and somehow explains the t-shirt as well): Don't take things too seriously. There is no need to waste time this way, we have lots of things to do for the community so let's try and make better use of our time.
Thanks,
Gabriele
--Gabriele Bartolini - 2ndQuadrant Italia - Director
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
gabriele.bartolini@2ndQuadrant.it | www.2ndQuadrant.it
On 07/18/2016 03:30 AM, Gabriele Bartolini wrote: > > I was undecided whether to answer or not but since this thread is taking > a turn that does not serve the community, I feel compelled to respond. > Unfortunately, I feel that it must be noted that apart from Simon and > Joshua, no one thought of me. This is not a problem for me, however, I > wish that everything had not been taken so seriously and everyone could > move on without hard feelings, I feel that the discussion has gone far > enough. > Well, nobody has been talking about you because you've been fairly moderate in this. While I wouldn't personally have made the same decisions you did, they were your right and you made them politely and were responsive to Fabio. That part's done. At this point, this thread isn't about the T-shirt; it's about a prominent community member launching a personal attack against another prominent community member, which then inspires people on this list to take sides. You really weren't involved in that, so it's really not about you. -- -- Josh Berkus Red Hat OSAS (any opinions are my own)
On 07/18/2016 10:14 AM, Josh Berkus wrote: > On 07/18/2016 03:30 AM, Gabriele Bartolini wrote: >> > At this point, this thread isn't about the T-shirt; it's about a > prominent community member launching a personal attack against another > prominent community member, This is indeed the core of the issue at this point and one that should be addressed. JD -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them.
On 18 Jul 2016, at 18:14, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: <snip> > At this point, this thread isn't about the T-shirt; it's about a > prominent community member launching a personal attack against another > prominent community member, which then inspires people on this list to > take sides. You really weren't involved in that, so it's really not > about you. Are you meaning Simon Rigg's email to Fábio? https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/CANP8%2BjKz3LXaXzRBrL-TMbpqdrOafL0ttQyMbQ9cvOAsYPiU8A%40mail.gmail.com If so, this sounds like it's being blown out of proportion. Fábio made a mistake, received a rather blistering response, and did the right thing through apologising + nuking the bits created. Sure Simon's wording was strong... but it sounds more like stressed-person-reaction than anything needing deep inspection. Lets not get sidetracked by furthering this thread, as there doesn't seem much PG-growth-factor to be obtained in putting further time into it. ;) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- "My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there." - Indira Gandhi
On 07/18/2016 11:44 AM, Justin Clift wrote: > On 18 Jul 2016, at 18:14, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: > Are you meaning Simon Rigg's email to Fábio? > > https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/CANP8%2BjKz3LXaXzRBrL-TMbpqdrOafL0ttQyMbQ9cvOAsYPiU8A%40mail.gmail.com > > If so, this sounds like it's being blown out of proportion. Fábio > made a mistake, received a rather blistering response, and did the > right thing through apologising + nuking the bits created. > > Sure Simon's wording was strong... but it sounds more like > stressed-person-reaction than anything needing deep inspection. I will give one thing to Simon on this, he was upfront and public about it. My concern isn't that he was so harsh, heaven knows there are plenty of people in this community (myself included) that can come off harsh. My concern is the lack of humility being shown by the protagonist. Fabio has done everything right since the initial infraction, yet a prominent member has only sat on a high horse through the whole thing. It makes the entire community look bad. JD -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them.
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 8:49 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > My concern is the lack of humility being shown by the protagonist. Fabio has > done everything right since the initial infraction, yet a prominent member > has only sat on a high horse through the whole thing. > > It makes the entire community look bad. My opinion is that it makes the community _feel_ bad, because of the "making money for yourself" statement. I have to say that being a volunteer in ITPUG, not making any kind of money out of PostgreSQL, I feel bad when I say this kind of statement without any evidence. Luca
On 6 July 2016 at 17:05, Simon Riggs <simon@2ndquadrant.com> wrote: > On 6 July 2016 at 17:02, Fábio Telles Rodriguez <fabio.telles@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> Sorry, i never intend to make these mess.. I already take it down now. >> Just to be clear: I never make money with T-shirts. >> >> My apologize for all, i was just trying to make some nice T-shirt and help >> postgres comunity. > > > Thank you for the apology and for taking down the design. Fabio, A few people have commented to me that although people consider my complaint to you valid, they didn't like some of the words I used in making that complaint. I mistakenly used the phrase "make money for yourself", implying you were personally making money on top of the cost of the T-shirts. Whilst I do not condone the copying itself, I do apologise for saying that comment in raising my complaint with you. I hope we can continue working together to promote Postgres into the future. Best Regards -- Simon Riggs http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/ PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
On 08/02/2016 06:04 PM, Simon Riggs wrote: > On 6 July 2016 at 17:05, Simon Riggs <simon@2ndquadrant.com> wrote: >> On 6 July 2016 at 17:02, Fábio Telles Rodriguez <fabio.telles@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Sorry, i never intend to make these mess.. I already take it down now. >>> Just to be clear: I never make money with T-shirts. >>> >>> My apologize for all, i was just trying to make some nice T-shirt and help >>> postgres comunity. >> >> >> Thank you for the apology and for taking down the design. > > Fabio, > > A few people have commented to me that although people consider my > complaint to you valid, they didn't like some of the words I used in > making that complaint. > > I mistakenly used the phrase "make money for yourself", implying you > were personally making money on top of the cost of the T-shirts. > Whilst I do not condone the copying itself, I do apologise for saying > that comment in raising my complaint with you. > > I hope we can continue working together to promote Postgres into the future. Thanks for posting that! For my part, I was overly harsh in responding to your comments. Sorry. -- -- Josh Berkus Red Hat OSAS (any opinions are my own)