Thread: Re: [HACKERS] How can we expand PostgreSQL ecosystem?
MauMau, Crossing this over to pgsql-advocacy list where it really belongs. That's what that list is *for*. Especially since the discussion on -hackers has focused on new PostgreSQL Features, which while also good don't address the general question. On 03/05/2016 09:29 PM, MauMau wrote: > Hello, > As I said in the previous greeting mail, I'd like to discuss how to > expand PostgreSQL ecosystem. Here, ecosystem means "interoperability" > -- the software products and cloud services which use/support > PostgreSQL. If pgsql-advocacy or somewhere else is better for this > topic, just tell me so. > THE BACKGROUND > ================================================== > Thanks to the long and hard efforts by the community, PostgreSQL has > been evolving to be a really great software comparable to existing > strong commercial products. Open source databases are gaining more > popularity to influence the database market. > Open source threatens to eat the database market > http://www.infoworld.com/article/2916057/open-source-software/open-source-threatens-to-eat-the-database-market.html > "Though the proprietary RDBMS market grew at a sluggish 5.4 percent in > 2014, the open source database market grew 31 percent to hit $562 million." > "As Gartner highlights in a recent research report, open source > databases now consume 25 percent of relational database usage." > Perhaps related to this is that the revenues of Oracle, IBM and > Microsoft have been declining (but I read in an article that SQL Server > is gaining more revenue). > On the other hand, there is a gulf between the two top popular databases > -- Oracle and MySQL -- and PostgreSQL. They are nearly five times more > popular than PostgreSQL. > DB-Engines Ranking > http://db-engines.com/en/ranking > Yes, I understand this ranking doesn't necessarily reflect the actual > use, but I also don't think the ranking is far from the real > popularity. In fact, some surveys show that MySQL has been in more > widespread use even here in Japan than PostgreSQL since around 2010 (IIRC). > What should we do to boost the popularity of PostgreSQL? One challenge > is to increase the number of software which supports PostgreSQL. To take > advantage of the trend of shift from commercial products to open source, > PostgreSQL needs to interoperate with many software that are used > together with the commercial databases. > The easily understandable target is Oracle, because it is anticipated > that more users of Oracle will seek another database to avoid the > expensive Oracle Standard Edition 2 and increasing maintenance costs. > In addition, PostgreSQL has affinity for Oracle. > However, there is a problem. The number of software is very small that > the users can know to interoperate with PostgreSQL. That is, when the > users want to migrate from commercial databases to PostgreSQL, they > can't get information on whether they can continue to use their assets > with PostgreSQL. Many applications might be interoperable through > standard interfaces like JDBC/ODBC, but the case is unknown. For example: > * Only 24 open source projects are listed as interoperable. > Open Source Projects Using PostgreSQL > https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/OpenSource_Projects_Using_PostgreSQL > * Even EnterpriseDB has only 12 certified application vendors. > http://www.enterprisedb.com/partner-programs/enterprisedb-certified-application-vendors > * PostgreSQL Enterprise Consortium lists only about30 related products > (Japanese only). > https://www.pgecons.org/postgresql-info/business_sw/ > * MySQL touts more than 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs. > http://www.mysql.com/oem/ > Besides, in practice, we probably should increase the number of software > interoperable with PostgreSQL. e.g. one customer asked us whether > Arcserve can be used to back up PostgreSQL databases, but unfortunately > we had to answer no. They are using Arcserve to back up Oracle > databases and other resources. "Then, you can use NetVault instead" is > not the best answer; they just want to replace the database. > PROPOSAL > ================================================== > Last month, I attended the steering committee of PostgreSQL Enterprise > Consortium (PGECons) for the first time and proposed starting the > following activity. PGECons is a Japanese non-profit organization to > promote PostgreSQL for enterprise use. The members include NTT, SRA OSS > (Tatsuo Ishii runs), NEC, Hitachi, HP, Fujitsu, etc. We concluded that > we need to consult the PostgreSQL community on how to proceed the > activity and work in cooperation with the community. > * Attract and ask product/service vendors to support/use PostgreSQL. > Provide technical assistance to those vendors as an organization so that > they can support PostgreSQL smoothly. > If the vendors aren't proactive, we verify the interoperability with > their software by executing it. > * Make a directory of software/services that can be used with PostgreSQL > on the community web site (wiki.postgresql.org or www.postgresql.org). > Software/services vendors and PostgreSQL developers/users can edit this > directory. > This list not only has the names of software and its vendors, but also > other information such as the level of interoperability (certified by > the vendor, or verified by the community/users) and remarks about > configuration, tuning, and whatever useful for users. > PostgreSQL Enterprise Consortium (PGECons) > https://www.pgecons.org/en > CONSULTATION AND DISCUSSION > ================================================== > I'd like to discuss and hear opinions on how can we expand the ecosystem > of PostgreSQL. Example points are: > * How/Where can we get the knowledge of expanding the software > ecosystem? Is there any OSS project that we can learn from? > How can we attract software vendors to support PostgreSQL? What words > are convincing to appeal the increasing potential of PostgreSQL as a > good replacement for commercial databases? > * How can we gain momentum for the activity? > Can we involve globally influential companies like Dell, HPE, and Red Hat? > * Do we need some kind of assistance from a foundation or establish a > foundation? > There should be many, many software to address, so the ecosystem > activity has to be long-lasting. Plus, money and expertise is necessary. > Would we benefit if we join the Linux Foundation Collaborative Projects? > Linux Foundation Collaborative Projects > http://collabprojects.linuxfoundation.org/ > * Which software/services in what category should we address preferentially? > What software would many users desire to be interoperable when migrating > from commercial databases? > What is the effective way to absorb user requests for this? Is it > enough to make a questionnaire like the following? What is the popular > questionnaire site which can catch many users (SurveyMonkey?) > https://postgresql.uservoice.com/forums/21853-general > Regards > MauMau -- -- Josh Berkus Red Hat OSAS (any opinions are my own)
On 03/07/2016 01:37 PM, Josh berkus wrote: > MauMau, > > Crossing this over to pgsql-advocacy list where it really belongs. > That's what that list is *for*. > > Especially since the discussion on -hackers has focused on new > PostgreSQL Features, which while also good don't address the general > question. > > On 03/05/2016 09:29 PM, MauMau wrote: >> Hello, >> As I said in the previous greeting mail, I'd like to discuss how to >> expand PostgreSQL ecosystem. Here, ecosystem means "interoperability" >> -- the software products and cloud services which use/support >> PostgreSQL. If pgsql-advocacy or somewhere else is better for this >> topic, just tell me so. >> THE BACKGROUND >> ================================================== >> Thanks to the long and hard efforts by the community, PostgreSQL has >> been evolving to be a really great software comparable to existing >> strong commercial products. Open source databases are gaining more >> popularity to influence the database market. >> Open source threatens to eat the database market >> http://www.infoworld.com/article/2916057/open-source-software/open-source-threatens-to-eat-the-database-market.html >> "Though the proprietary RDBMS market grew at a sluggish 5.4 percent in >> 2014, the open source database market grew 31 percent to hit $562 million." >> "As Gartner highlights in a recent research report, open source >> databases now consume 25 percent of relational database usage." >> Perhaps related to this is that the revenues of Oracle, IBM and >> Microsoft have been declining (but I read in an article that SQL Server >> is gaining more revenue). >> On the other hand, there is a gulf between the two top popular databases >> -- Oracle and MySQL -- and PostgreSQL. They are nearly five times more >> popular than PostgreSQL. >> DB-Engines Ranking >> http://db-engines.com/en/ranking >> Yes, I understand this ranking doesn't necessarily reflect the actual >> use, but I also don't think the ranking is far from the real >> popularity. In fact, some surveys show that MySQL has been in more >> widespread use even here in Japan than PostgreSQL since around 2010 (IIRC). >> What should we do to boost the popularity of PostgreSQL? One challenge >> is to increase the number of software which supports PostgreSQL. To take >> advantage of the trend of shift from commercial products to open source, >> PostgreSQL needs to interoperate with many software that are used >> together with the commercial databases. >> The easily understandable target is Oracle, because it is anticipated >> that more users of Oracle will seek another database to avoid the >> expensive Oracle Standard Edition 2 and increasing maintenance costs. >> In addition, PostgreSQL has affinity for Oracle. >> However, there is a problem. The number of software is very small that >> the users can know to interoperate with PostgreSQL. That is, when the >> users want to migrate from commercial databases to PostgreSQL, they >> can't get information on whether they can continue to use their assets >> with PostgreSQL. Many applications might be interoperable through >> standard interfaces like JDBC/ODBC, but the case is unknown. For example: >> * Only 24 open source projects are listed as interoperable. >> Open Source Projects Using PostgreSQL >> https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/OpenSource_Projects_Using_PostgreSQL >> * Even EnterpriseDB has only 12 certified application vendors. >> http://www.enterprisedb.com/partner-programs/enterprisedb-certified-application-vendors >> * PostgreSQL Enterprise Consortium lists only about30 related products >> (Japanese only). >> https://www.pgecons.org/postgresql-info/business_sw/ >> * MySQL touts more than 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs. >> http://www.mysql.com/oem/ Though if you go to the actual list: http://www.mysql.com/customers/embedded/ There is at a rough count, 300. This points to the central dilemma, some of which is addressed below, separating fact from fiction. >> Besides, in practice, we probably should increase the number of software >> interoperable with PostgreSQL. e.g. one customer asked us whether >> Arcserve can be used to back up PostgreSQL databases, but unfortunately >> we had to answer no. They are using Arcserve to back up Oracle >> databases and other resources. "Then, you can use NetVault instead" is >> not the best answer; they just want to replace the database. >> PROPOSAL >> ================================================== >> Last month, I attended the steering committee of PostgreSQL Enterprise >> Consortium (PGECons) for the first time and proposed starting the >> following activity. PGECons is a Japanese non-profit organization to >> promote PostgreSQL for enterprise use. The members include NTT, SRA OSS >> (Tatsuo Ishii runs), NEC, Hitachi, HP, Fujitsu, etc. We concluded that >> we need to consult the PostgreSQL community on how to proceed the >> activity and work in cooperation with the community. >> * Attract and ask product/service vendors to support/use PostgreSQL. >> Provide technical assistance to those vendors as an organization so that >> they can support PostgreSQL smoothly. >> If the vendors aren't proactive, we verify the interoperability with >> their software by executing it. >> * Make a directory of software/services that can be used with PostgreSQL >> on the community web site (wiki.postgresql.org or www.postgresql.org). >> Software/services vendors and PostgreSQL developers/users can edit this >> directory. >> This list not only has the names of software and its vendors, but also >> other information such as the level of interoperability (certified by >> the vendor, or verified by the community/users) and remarks about >> configuration, tuning, and whatever useful for users. >> PostgreSQL Enterprise Consortium (PGECons) >> https://www.pgecons.org/en >> CONSULTATION AND DISCUSSION >> ================================================== >> I'd like to discuss and hear opinions on how can we expand the ecosystem >> of PostgreSQL. Example points are: >> * How/Where can we get the knowledge of expanding the software >> ecosystem? Is there any OSS project that we can learn from? >> How can we attract software vendors to support PostgreSQL? What words >> are convincing to appeal the increasing potential of PostgreSQL as a >> good replacement for commercial databases? >> * How can we gain momentum for the activity? >> Can we involve globally influential companies like Dell, HPE, and Red Hat? >> * Do we need some kind of assistance from a foundation or establish a >> foundation? >> There should be many, many software to address, so the ecosystem >> activity has to be long-lasting. Plus, money and expertise is necessary. >> Would we benefit if we join the Linux Foundation Collaborative Projects? >> Linux Foundation Collaborative Projects >> http://collabprojects.linuxfoundation.org/ >> * Which software/services in what category should we address preferentially? >> What software would many users desire to be interoperable when migrating >> from commercial databases? >> What is the effective way to absorb user requests for this? Is it >> enough to make a questionnaire like the following? What is the popular >> questionnaire site which can catch many users (SurveyMonkey?) >> https://postgresql.uservoice.com/forums/21853-general >> Regards >> MauMau > > -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@aklaver.com
Hello, Josh, > From: pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org > [mailto:pgsql-hackers-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Josh berkus> Crossing this over to pgsql-advocacy list where itreally belongs. > That's what that list is *for*. > > Especially since the discussion on -hackers has focused on new PostgreSQL > Features, which while also good don't address the general question. > Thank you for pointing me to the correct place. I wondered which list is better, because I thought this topic whould bebetter discussed among hackers. I'll post subsequent mails only to pgsql-advocacy. Regards Takayuki Tsunakawa
> From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org > [mailto:pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Klaver > >> * MySQL touts more than 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs. > >> http://www.mysql.com/oem/ > > Though if you go to the actual list: > http://www.mysql.com/customers/embedded/ > > There is at a rough count, 300. > > This points to the central dilemma, some of which is addressed below, > separating fact from fiction. It seems the "Embedded" category shows products which use MySQL internally. Other products/vendors, such as JasperSoft andTalend which "can be used with" MySQL, are probably list elsewhere. e.g. Talend lists MySQL in their ecosystem page: https://jp.talend.com/ecosystem/company/mysql The 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs Oracle touts should be found in the "MySQL specialization" section of Oracle Partner Network (OPN)site, though I couldn't access. I wonder if and where I can get the partner/product listing for Oracle Database. That'swhat I want. Regards Takayuki Tsunakawa
On 03/07/2016 10:24 PM, Tsunakawa, Takayuki wrote: >> From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org >> [mailto:pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Klaver >>>> * MySQL touts more than 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs. >>>> http://www.mysql.com/oem/ >> >> Though if you go to the actual list: >> http://www.mysql.com/customers/embedded/ >> >> There is at a rough count, 300. >> >> This points to the central dilemma, some of which is addressed below, >> separating fact from fiction. > > It seems the "Embedded" category shows products which use MySQL internally. Other products/vendors, such as JasperSoftand Talend which "can be used with" MySQL, are probably list elsewhere. e.g. Talend lists MySQL in their ecosystempage: > > https://jp.talend.com/ecosystem/company/mysql > > The 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs Oracle touts should be found in the "MySQL specialization" section of Oracle Partner Network (OPN)site, though I couldn't access. I wonder if and where I can get the partner/product listing for Oracle Database. That'swhat I want. MySQL is not a open source community project. It is an open source product, owned, and licensed by Oracle. We are an open source community. We should be focussing on what we do best, delivering PostgreSQL to the community. Sincerely, JD -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them.
On 03/07/2016 10:24 PM, Tsunakawa, Takayuki wrote: >> From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org >> [mailto:pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Klaver >>>> * MySQL touts more than 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs. >>>> http://www.mysql.com/oem/ >> >> Though if you go to the actual list: >> http://www.mysql.com/customers/embedded/ >> >> There is at a rough count, 300. >> >> This points to the central dilemma, some of which is addressed below, >> separating fact from fiction. > > It seems the "Embedded" category shows products which use MySQL internally. Other products/vendors, such as JasperSoftand Talend which "can be used with" MySQL, are probably list elsewhere. e.g. Talend lists MySQL in their ecosystempage: > > https://jp.talend.com/ecosystem/company/mysql > > The 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs Oracle touts should be found in the "MySQL specialization" section of Oracle Partner Network (OPN)site, though I couldn't access. I wonder if and where I can get the partner/product listing for Oracle Database. That'swhat I want. Do you really want to track down every single use site/application that uses MySQL? Would it not be better to work from the other end, ask people what applications they want to use with Postgres and then compile a list of those are supported or not? Basically the first part of your previous post. > > Regards > Takayuki Tsunakawa > > -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@aklaver.com
> From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org > [mailto:pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Joshua D. Drake > MySQL is not a open source community project. It is an open source product, > owned, and licensed by Oracle. Yes, and that should be one of the reasons why MySQL can create a wide ecosystem -- they have money, human resources, know-how/experience,and strong motivation to expand the ecosystem for business. So the questions to ask here may be: * Are you satisfied with the current breadth of the PostgreSQL ecosystem? (I assume/hope "no" or "I don't know. First itneeds to be revealed") * Do you want to expand the ecosystem yourself or appreciate it if someone could do that? * Does the current PostgreSQL community have the resources and know-how to expand the ecosystem? Is any kind of assistancenecessary from external organizations like Linux Foundation and PGECons? > We are an open source community. We should be focussing on what we do best, > delivering PostgreSQL to the community. Yes, and thanks to many great efforts, PostgreSQL is what is today. And to shed more light on PostgreSQL and have it adoptedby more users, I think it's necessary to make PostgreSQL more interoperable with their existing assets. Regards Takayuki Tsunakawa
> From: Adrian Klaver [mailto:adrian.klaver@aklaver.com] > On 03/07/2016 10:24 PM, Tsunakawa, Takayuki wrote: > > The 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs Oracle touts should be found in the "MySQL > specialization" section of Oracle Partner Network (OPN) site, though I > couldn't access. I wonder if and where I can get the partner/product > listing for Oracle Database. That's what I want. > > Do you really want to track down every single use site/application that > uses MySQL? > > Would it not be better to work from the other end, ask people what > applications they want to use with Postgres and then compile a list of those > are supported or not? Basically the first part of your previous post. Agreed. I think I will make a web form questionnaire and post it to pgsql-advocacy and pgsql-announce. But that would only solicit opinions of existing PostgreSQL users... Any advice would be much appreciated where to postthe questionnaire to hear from other databases' users. On the other hand, I want to get the application/service list for Oracle and MySQL. That will probably help us to selecteffective (=famous) applications to address in preference, though the selection may be subjective. Regards Takayuki Tsunakawa
On 03/09/2016 07:29 PM, Tsunakawa, Takayuki wrote: >> From: Adrian Klaver [mailto:adrian.klaver@aklaver.com] >> On 03/07/2016 10:24 PM, Tsunakawa, Takayuki wrote: >>> The 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs Oracle touts should be found in the "MySQL >> specialization" section of Oracle Partner Network (OPN) site, though I >> couldn't access. I wonder if and where I can get the partner/product >> listing for Oracle Database. That's what I want. >> >> Do you really want to track down every single use site/application that >> uses MySQL? >> >> Would it not be better to work from the other end, ask people what >> applications they want to use with Postgres and then compile a list of those >> are supported or not? Basically the first part of your previous post. > > Agreed. I think I will make a web form questionnaire and post it to pgsql-advocacy and pgsql-announce. > > But that would only solicit opinions of existing PostgreSQL users... Any advice would be much appreciated where to postthe questionnaire to hear from other databases' users. Well in general I would say the first step is determine where all this information is going to land. In other words establish the page on either the main site or the Wiki. Seed it with what is known now and then use that to point people to. The information from existing users could go there and new users pointed there, with an option for new users to submit applications they are interested in and do not see. To keep this from spirally out of control, especially spam, will require a good deal of set up thought and planning. The Web site is run through the list below, so you might want to start there to see what is even possible: http://www.postgresql.org/list/pgsql-www > > On the other hand, I want to get the application/service list for Oracle and MySQL. That will probably help us to selecteffective (=famous) applications to address in preference, though the selection may be subjective. > > > Regards > Takayuki Tsunakawa > -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@aklaver.com
On 08.03.2016 18:05, Adrian Klaver wrote: > On 03/07/2016 10:24 PM, Tsunakawa, Takayuki wrote: >>> From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org >>> [mailto:pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Adrian >>> Klaver >>>>> * MySQL touts more than 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs. >>>>> http://www.mysql.com/oem/ >>> >>> Though if you go to the actual list: >>> http://www.mysql.com/customers/embedded/ >>> >>> There is at a rough count, 300. >>> >>> This points to the central dilemma, some of which is addressed >>> below, separating fact from fiction. >> >> It seems the "Embedded" category shows products which use MySQL >> internally. Other products/vendors, such as JasperSoft and Talend >> which "can be used with" MySQL, are probably list elsewhere. e.g. >> Talend lists MySQL in their ecosystem page: >> >> https://jp.talend.com/ecosystem/company/mysql >> >> The 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs Oracle touts should be found in the "MySQL >> specialization" section of Oracle Partner Network (OPN) site, >> though I couldn't access. I wonder if and where I can get the >> partner/product listing for Oracle Database. That's what I want. > > Do you really want to track down every single use site/application > that uses MySQL? > > Would it not be better to work from the other end, ask people what > applications they want to use with Postgres and then compile a list > of those are supported or not? Basically the first part of your > previous post. I don't believe that a list of every single site/application using PostgreSQL would be helpful. Nobody would read this. There are thousands of programming languages, but most people know around 10. We should focus on well known software and their support of PostgreSQL. And i like the idea of asking people where the want support for PostgreSQL. Based on the list we maybe can find volunteers which add support to the projects. Greetings, Torsten
On 08.03.2016 17:20, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On 03/07/2016 10:24 PM, Tsunakawa, Takayuki wrote: >>> From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org >>> [mailto:pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Adrian >>> Klaver >>>>> * MySQL touts more than 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs. >>>>> http://www.mysql.com/oem/ >>> >>> Though if you go to the actual list: >>> http://www.mysql.com/customers/embedded/ >>> >>> There is at a rough count, 300. >>> >>> This points to the central dilemma, some of which is addressed >>> below, separating fact from fiction. >> >> It seems the "Embedded" category shows products which use MySQL >> internally. Other products/vendors, such as JasperSoft and Talend >> which "can be used with" MySQL, are probably list elsewhere. e.g. >> Talend lists MySQL in their ecosystem page: >> >> https://jp.talend.com/ecosystem/company/mysql >> >> The 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs Oracle touts should be found in the "MySQL >> specialization" section of Oracle Partner Network (OPN) site, >> though I couldn't access. I wonder if and where I can get the >> partner/product listing for Oracle Database. That's what I want. > > MySQL is not a open source community project. It is an open source > product, owned, and licensed by Oracle. > > We are an open source community. We should be focussing on what we > do best, delivering PostgreSQL to the community. I support your point. But we really can delivering PostgreSQL better to the community. For example we miss translation into other languages. There are non-english speaking persons around the world, which *want* to use PostgreSQL but are not able to do this because of the lack of documentation in a language they understand. Greetings, Torsten
From: Torsten Zuhlsdorff [mailto:mailinglists@toco-domains.de] > I don't believe that a list of every single site/application using > PostgreSQL would be helpful. Nobody would read this. There are thousands > of programming languages, but most people know around 10. We should focus > on well known software and their support of PostgreSQL. Let me correct: not "using PostgreSQL" but "using other commercial databases, particularly Oracle/MySQL". Anyway, I agree that it will require considerable perseverance to look through the list and select popular software. ButI want to extract at least the software categories (ETL, BI, office suite, IDE, etc.) as exhaustively as possible, andpick up a few software in each category to add support for PostgreSQL to. The page below may be where to start, but I'm afraid I can't select software categories that have something to do with DBMS. Therefore, I thought I need a list of software which can integrate with other DBMSs. List of software categories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_categories > And i like the idea of asking people where the want support for PostgreSQL. > Based on the list we maybe can find volunteers which add support to the > projects. Yes, exactly. Once the list is prepared, I'd like to step forward to add support for PostgreSQL to those software. I'llmake a questionnaire using Google Forms or something. But I don't yet know where to post it. How can I reach the ITpros who are involved in determining the database to procure? Stack Overflow, DBA Stack Exchange, or elsewhere? ShouldI post the URL of questionnaire to Twitter or Facebook using some hash tag? Regards Takayuki Tsunakawa
On 11.03.2016 07:50, Tsunakawa, Takayuki wrote: > From: Torsten Zuhlsdorff [mailto:mailinglists@toco-domains.de] >> I don't believe that a list of every single site/application using >> PostgreSQL would be helpful. Nobody would read this. There are >> thousands of programming languages, but most people know around 10. >> We should focus on well known software and their support of >> PostgreSQL. > > Let me correct: not "using PostgreSQL" but "using other commercial > databases, particularly Oracle/MySQL". Both. There is plenty of software using PostgreSQL and the users are unaware of this. For example GitLab is heavily used, even by big players like NASA or Alibaba and it uses PostgreSQL. It is possible to use it with MySQL but the handbook discourage the users because of many problems with MySQL. This is very handy in discussions about a switch. Beside this point your correction is correct. > Anyway, I agree that it will require considerable perseverance to > look through the list and select popular software. But I want to > extract at least the software categories (ETL, BI, office suite, IDE, > etc.) as exhaustively as possible, and pick up a few software in each > category to add support for PostgreSQL to. Information based on software segmentations seems a pretty good idea. > The page below may be where to start, but I'm afraid I can't select > software categories that have something to do with DBMS. Therefore, > I thought I need a list of software which can integrate with other > DBMSs. It is not always easy to see where a database is involved. Maybe we should not focus on software categories but on usage categories or industrial categories. A short explanation based at an example: image a logistic firm. There is a database for the employees, for the routs to drive, the cars to use, the goods to ship and even more. I see regularly a database to store GPS information about the location of each car, a database about statistics reaching form income to traffic jams. But in most cases the users/implementors also don't know which category of software the use. They simply searching for their problems and try their solutions. So we should maybe add some more text to the categories to make them easier findable. >> And i like the idea of asking people where the want support for >> PostgreSQL. Based on the list we maybe can find volunteers which >> add support to the projects. > > Yes, exactly. Once the list is prepared, I'd like to step forward to > add support for PostgreSQL to those software. I'll make a > questionnaire using Google Forms or something. But I don't yet know > where to post it. How can I reach the IT pros who are involved in > determining the database to procure? Stack Overflow, DBA Stack > Exchange, or elsewhere? Should I post the URL of questionnaire to > Twitter or Facebook using some hash tag? That is a hard question and for most firms sadly naive. Most times the database (like the language or all other used tools) is selected based on whatever the already use. Change comes often on two ways: first from the outside through various articles. Since PostgreSQL becomes more and more a topic in the IT news in Germany you can talk about it. Before this nobody even wants to talk about it, because nobody "uses" it. This is plain wrong, but that is the typical conclusion based on such an information lack. The second way is the daily worker, which tries to get its favorite software in. Focusing on the second one and our general propose i would take the broad road. Stack Overflow, DBA Exchange, Usenet. Everything you could reach, because it could be hard to get results. And at least we need to do something with the results. Greetings, Torsten
Hello, all, I've created the ecosystem survey. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1HbBLWrAE7OTNRKSmi2sydpIeem4Je3ZgINhvs9mcHU8/viewform The response is collected in the following sheets. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gk414aSyqFZt81p7smGtmBGeBtggY4CF-7pKqMd5UIU/pubhtml These are for reviewing and practicing the survey form, so feel free to add any category/software options and see how theresults look like in the sheet. The options in the above form are dummy. I'll prepare another form/sheet copy for thereal survey, populate the category list with some initial options based on the Wikipedia, and then submit the survey tousers after a week or so. Could you review the form sentences? I'm not good at natural English expression, and I have no experience in making thesurvey. I'd appreciate better sentences to encourage many users to respond. > From: Torsten Zuhlsdorff [mailto:mailinglists@toco-domains.de] > It is not always easy to see where a database is involved. Maybe we should > not focus on software categories but on usage categories or industrial > categories. > > A short explanation based at an example: image a logistic firm. There is > a database for the employees, for the routs to drive, the cars to use, the > goods to ship and even more. I see regularly a database to store GPS > information about the location of each car, a database about statistics > reaching form income to traffic jams. > > But in most cases the users/implementors also don't know which category > of software the use. They simply searching for their problems and try their > solutions. So we should maybe add some more text to the categories to make > them easier findable. I'll consider software/usage/industrial categories when populating the initial options. Any info source (Wikipedia page)would be helpful for reference of usage/industrial categories. > Focusing on the second one and our general propose i would take the broad > road. Stack Overflow, DBA Exchange, Usenet. Everything you could reach, > because it could be hard to get results. > > And at least we need to do something with the results. Again, the advice on where to submit the survey would be much, much appreciated. Regards Takayuki Tsunakawa