Re: [HACKERS] How can we expand PostgreSQL ecosystem? - Mailing list pgsql-advocacy

On 03/07/2016 01:37 PM, Josh berkus wrote:
> MauMau,
>
> Crossing this over to pgsql-advocacy list where it really belongs.
> That's what that list is *for*.
>
> Especially since the discussion on -hackers has focused on new
> PostgreSQL Features, which while also good don't address the general
> question.
>
> On 03/05/2016 09:29 PM, MauMau wrote:
>> Hello,
>> As I said in the previous greeting mail, I'd like to discuss how to
>> expand PostgreSQL ecosystem.  Here, ecosystem means "interoperability"
>> -- the software products and cloud services which use/support
>> PostgreSQL.  If pgsql-advocacy or somewhere else is better for this
>> topic, just tell me so.
>> THE BACKGROUND
>> ==================================================
>> Thanks to the long and hard efforts by the community, PostgreSQL has
>> been evolving to be a really great software comparable to existing
>> strong commercial products.  Open source databases are gaining more
>> popularity to influence the database market.
>> Open source threatens to eat the database market
>> http://www.infoworld.com/article/2916057/open-source-software/open-source-threatens-to-eat-the-database-market.html
>> "Though the proprietary RDBMS market grew at a sluggish 5.4 percent in
>> 2014, the open source database market grew 31 percent to hit $562 million."
>> "As Gartner highlights in a recent research report, open source
>> databases now consume 25 percent of relational database usage."
>> Perhaps related to this is that the revenues of Oracle, IBM and
>> Microsoft have been declining (but I read in an article that SQL Server
>> is gaining more revenue).
>> On the other hand, there is a gulf between the two top popular databases
>> -- Oracle and MySQL -- and PostgreSQL.  They are nearly five times more
>> popular than PostgreSQL.
>> DB-Engines Ranking
>> http://db-engines.com/en/ranking
>> Yes, I understand this ranking doesn't necessarily reflect the actual
>> use, but I also don't think the ranking is far from the real
>> popularity.  In fact, some surveys show that MySQL has been in more
>> widespread use even here in Japan than PostgreSQL since around 2010 (IIRC).
>> What should we do to boost the popularity of PostgreSQL?  One challenge
>> is to increase the number of software which supports PostgreSQL. To take
>> advantage of the trend of shift from commercial products to open source,
>> PostgreSQL needs to interoperate with many software that are used
>> together with the commercial databases.
>> The easily understandable target is Oracle, because it is anticipated
>> that more users of Oracle will seek another database to avoid the
>> expensive Oracle Standard Edition 2 and increasing maintenance costs.
>> In addition, PostgreSQL has affinity for Oracle.
>> However, there is a problem.  The number of software is very small that
>> the users can know to interoperate with PostgreSQL.  That is, when the
>> users want to migrate from commercial databases to PostgreSQL, they
>> can't get information on whether they can continue to use their assets
>> with PostgreSQL.  Many applications might be interoperable through
>> standard interfaces like JDBC/ODBC, but the case is unknown.  For example:
>> * Only 24 open source projects are listed as interoperable.
>> Open Source Projects Using PostgreSQL
>> https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/OpenSource_Projects_Using_PostgreSQL
>> * Even EnterpriseDB has only 12 certified application vendors.
>> http://www.enterprisedb.com/partner-programs/enterprisedb-certified-application-vendors
>> * PostgreSQL Enterprise Consortium lists only about30 related products
>> (Japanese only).
>> https://www.pgecons.org/postgresql-info/business_sw/
>> * MySQL touts more than 2,000 ISV/OEM/VARs.
>> http://www.mysql.com/oem/

Though if you go to the actual list:
http://www.mysql.com/customers/embedded/

There is at a rough count, 300.

This points to the central dilemma, some of which is addressed below,
separating fact from fiction.


>> Besides, in practice, we probably should increase the number of software
>> interoperable with PostgreSQL.  e.g. one customer asked us whether
>> Arcserve can be used to back up PostgreSQL databases, but unfortunately
>> we had to answer no.  They are using Arcserve to back up Oracle
>> databases and other resources.  "Then, you can use NetVault instead" is
>> not the best answer; they just want to replace the database.
>> PROPOSAL
>> ==================================================
>> Last month, I attended the steering committee of PostgreSQL Enterprise
>> Consortium (PGECons) for the first time and proposed starting the
>> following activity.  PGECons is a Japanese non-profit organization to
>> promote PostgreSQL for enterprise use.  The members include NTT, SRA OSS
>> (Tatsuo Ishii runs), NEC, Hitachi, HP, Fujitsu, etc.  We concluded that
>> we need to consult the PostgreSQL community on how to proceed the
>> activity and work in cooperation with the community.
>> * Attract and ask product/service vendors to support/use PostgreSQL.
>> Provide technical assistance to those vendors as an organization so that
>> they can support PostgreSQL smoothly.
>> If the vendors aren't proactive, we verify the interoperability with
>> their software by executing it.
>> * Make a directory of software/services that can be used with PostgreSQL
>> on the community web site (wiki.postgresql.org or www.postgresql.org).
>> Software/services vendors and PostgreSQL developers/users can edit this
>> directory.
>> This list not only has the names of software and its vendors, but also
>> other information such as the level of interoperability (certified by
>> the vendor, or verified by the community/users) and remarks about
>> configuration, tuning, and whatever useful for users.
>> PostgreSQL Enterprise Consortium (PGECons)
>> https://www.pgecons.org/en
>> CONSULTATION AND DISCUSSION
>> ==================================================
>> I'd like to discuss and hear opinions on how can we expand the ecosystem
>> of PostgreSQL.  Example points are:
>> * How/Where can we get the knowledge of expanding the software
>> ecosystem?  Is there any OSS project that we can learn from?
>> How can we attract software vendors to support PostgreSQL?  What words
>> are convincing to appeal the increasing potential of PostgreSQL as a
>> good replacement for commercial databases?
>> * How can we gain momentum for the activity?
>> Can we involve globally influential companies like Dell, HPE, and Red Hat?
>> * Do we need some kind of assistance from a foundation or establish a
>> foundation?
>> There should be many, many software to address, so the ecosystem
>> activity has to be long-lasting. Plus, money and expertise is necessary.
>> Would we benefit if we join the Linux Foundation Collaborative Projects?
>> Linux Foundation Collaborative Projects
>> http://collabprojects.linuxfoundation.org/
>> * Which software/services in what category should we address preferentially?
>> What software would many users desire to be interoperable when migrating
>> from commercial databases?
>> What is the effective way to absorb user requests for this?  Is it
>> enough to make a questionnaire like the following?  What is the popular
>> questionnaire site which can catch many users (SurveyMonkey?)
>> https://postgresql.uservoice.com/forums/21853-general
>> Regards
>> MauMau
>
>


--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.klaver@aklaver.com