Thread: Contributor List policy
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello, Per the following emails and a discussion with Bruce Momjian on the phone I am suggesting a change (and documentation) of the way contributors will be determined and displayed on PostgreSQL.Org. Reference: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2008-03/msg00143.php http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2007-12/msg00022.php http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2007-11/msg00432.php [1] The contributor label will be removed in favor of groups or teams. Examples include: PostgreSQL.Org: Core: * Members: Josh Berkus, Dave Page, Jan Wieck, Bruce Momjian, Peter * List: pgsql-core (private list) Sysadmins: * Members: Joshua Drake, Marc Fournier, Devrim Gunduz, Magnus Hagander, Stefan Kaltenbrunner, Dave Page, Robert Treat * List: sysadmins (link to subscribe form) WWW Team: * Members: Joshua Drake, Devrim Gunduz, Magnus Hagander, Stefan Kaltenbrunner, Dave Page, Robert Treat * List: pgsql-www (link to subscribe form) Regional Communities: PostgreSQL Europe: * Members: (either a link to membership page or a list as provided by PGEU) * List: pgsql-eu-general (link to subscribe form) * Website: http://www.postgresql.eu/ French Community: * Members: (either a link to membership page or a list as provided by the French community) * List: whatever their list is * Website: http://www.postgresqlfr.org/ [2] Contributors will be determined for each team will be resolved by the respective teams (e.g; who is a part of the team, or leaves the team etc..) [3] The listing shall be respective of PostgreSQL (as opposed to just PostgreSQL.Org). Thus incorporating all international communities. Presentation: The best presentation for this should be argued out on -www but my feeling is that we will change the /community/contributor page to have links instead of listings. The links would describe in full what each section is. For example: Core: Steering committee and release team for the PostgreSQL Software WWW (link): Web development team for PostgreSQL.Org Sysadmins (link): System administrators for PostgreSQL.oRg PostgreSQL Europe: European Non profit dedicated to assisting the European community PostgreSQLFR: French Non profit dedicated to assisting the French speaking community. Thoughts, flames etc? Once this is hashed out, I will put it on the wiki so there will be no confusion in the future. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake - -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH1XBTATb/zqfZUUQRAuSCAJ0TTdPMw7SGnIixFJ3h2Efuidvg1QCeM9fT kaoC1pRtzMVeqD4hufXpv64= =hU9b -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Joshua D. Drake wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hello, > > Per the following emails and a discussion with Bruce Momjian on the > phone I am suggesting a change (and documentation) of the way > contributors will be determined and displayed on PostgreSQL.Org. > > Reference: > > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2008-03/msg00143.php > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2007-12/msg00022.php > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2007-11/msg00432.php > > [1] The contributor label will be removed in favor of groups or teams. hmm interesting idea - what happens to the current "code contributor" section here in that new scheme ("code team"?) ? > Examples include: > > PostgreSQL.Org: > > Core: > * Members: Josh Berkus, Dave Page, Jan Wieck, Bruce Momjian, Peter > * List: pgsql-core (private list) > > Sysadmins: > * Members: Joshua Drake, Marc Fournier, Devrim Gunduz, Magnus > Hagander, Stefan Kaltenbrunner, Dave Page, Robert Treat > * List: sysadmins (link to subscribe form) *errm* sysadmins@ is very much a private list ... Stefan
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On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:47:51 +0100
Stefan Kaltenbrunner <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> wrote:
> > [1] The contributor label will be removed in favor of groups or
> > teams.
>
> hmm interesting idea - what happens to the current "code contributor"
> section here in that new scheme ("code team"?) ?
Actually I assumed hackers, which in term would be determined by those
who submit patches to core. However, I didn't want to be presumptuous
as I am not a hacker. Note that I do think we should stick with the
idea that committer rights are not relevant here.
> >
> > Sysadmins:
> > * Members: Joshua Drake, Marc Fournier, Devrim Gunduz, Magnus
> > Hagander, Stefan Kaltenbrunner, Dave Page, Robert Treat
> > * List: sysadmins (link to subscribe form)
>
> *errm* sysadmins@ is very much a private list ...
Heh right... Then we should probably also link pgsql-www as a public
way to get a hold of us.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins
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Josh, > Per the following emails and a discussion with Bruce Momjian on the > phone I am suggesting a change (and documentation) of the way > contributors will be determined and displayed on PostgreSQL.Org. Mind laying out what you're proposing, exactly? I can't say that I could determine from this post what you're proposing. I also don't see why -advocacy is the appropriate forum for this discussion. > * List: sysadmins (link to subscribe form) Um, the sysadmins list is closed an private for reasons of security. > [2] Contributors will be determined for each team will be resolved by > the respective teams (e.g; who is a part of the team, or leaves the > team etc..) Wait, wait, are you proposing that we should have contributor breakdown per committee? And that everyone on every committee should be listed, regardless of how much work they actually do? This is a bit more radical than your earlier proposals. I can see 3 things about it which are potential showstoppers, all of which need to be dealt with before we could start implementing the new policy: 1) it's an enormous amount of work compared to the previous policy, like 5x to 10x. Who's going to do all this, exactly? 2) People who contribute a little in multiple areas of the project will get much more exposure that people who contribute a lot in one area. Not sure this idea is solvable. 3) Asking the committees themselves to do an evaluation of who among them is "good enough" to be listed is asking for a lot of political infighting around update time, possibly with enough acrimony to make people leave the project. 4) How do we decide which ancillary projects and organizations get linked, and which do not? This alone will need a lot of discussion. Overall, I think what you're proposing is headed in the right direction, but I also think it will take quite a while to hammer out. Why not update the listings according to the draft Core policy now, and then you won't be under time pressure to fix all of these things because we're 15 months out of date. -- --Josh Josh Berkus PostgreSQL @ Sun San Francisco
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On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:11:54 -0700
"Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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>
> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:47:51 +0100
> Stefan Kaltenbrunner <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> wrote:
>
> > > [1] The contributor label will be removed in favor of groups or
> > > teams.
> >
> > hmm interesting idea - what happens to the current "code
> > contributor" section here in that new scheme ("code team"?) ?
>
> Actually I assumed hackers, which in term would be determined by those
> who submit patches to core. However, I didn't want to be presumptuous
> as I am not a hacker. Note that I do think we should stick with the
> idea that committer rights are not relevant here.
>
In thinking about this I might have an additional solution:
A hacker is someone who:
In the last 24 months has contributed -n- number of patches or a patch
of significant value to the project.
Obviously we get into some subjective ideas here, what is a significant
value to the project? HOT and Tsearch2 come to mind and I think that
under no circumstances should we not provide examples.
In all, this is certainly not a perfect solution but there is no such
thing in the first place.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:36:43 -0700 "Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > In thinking about this I might have an additional solution: > > A hacker is someone who: > > In the last 24 months has contributed -n- number of patches or a patch > of significant value to the project. I just had an epiphany here. Solving the -hackers problem is pretty easy. It can be handled as it is now, via oversight from core and the initial list is what is listed under major contributors (as they are all developers anyway). Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake - -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH1ZtzATb/zqfZUUQRAnplAJ9appn4QnCI3OTkSZP2uFtM6scbKwCghF5g RTenxvmiac6QY/9Rk5bBYrg= =fW1A -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Josh, > I repeat because the Core policy in draft is wrong. If you want to > update per the previous policy I will have zero objection: As previously mentioned on -www, this is not a policy. It wasn't written up anywhere, and not discussed among many of the people who would have to implement it. > That is how Robert Treat, the previous (with oversight of core) made > the determination of who is presented for approval. > > I realize that everyone has an opinion on this but to ignore the > significant contributions of others based on the fact that they have > not contributed code, strikes me as an ugly, and saddening precedent. The above is BS in several different ways, so I'm going to have to call you out on it. You're attempting to set up a polarized "Core vs. Non-code contributors" argument in order to create an artificial crisis around an issue which there's no reason not to plan out and deploy gradually. First off, Robert Treat did *not* do anything about non-code contributors, as evidenced by the fact that there are exactly zero non-code contributors in either section. (and don't bring up Devrim; packaging is code, as you'd know if you edited RPMs). Second off, the proposed core policy is an attempt to list *more* non-code contributors than have ever been listed before. Your only issue of substance is that we're not moving *fast enough* for you. Shouldn't you be busy with other things, like PostgreSQL East? Well, not everything has to be a crisis. Some things we can plan out, and deploy one change at a time. -- --Josh Josh Berkus PostgreSQL @ Sun San Francisco
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On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:52:04 -0800
Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
> Josh,
>
> The above is BS in several different ways, so I'm going to have to
> call you out on it. You're attempting to set up a polarized "Core
> vs. Non-code contributors" argument in order to create an artificial
> crisis around an issue which there's no reason not to plan out and
> deploy gradually.
No that is not what I am doing. I am saying exactly what you said:
2) non-code contributors now get listed in the "Contributors" section,
but are not eligible for the "Major Developers" section. This is a
compromise between previous practice (not listing non-code contributors
at all) and what some people would like to see ("Major Contributors"
with non-code contributors); I figure we'll revisit this policy in a
year or so.
Which as I have stated on multiple threads now:
1. We don't currently have a Major Developers section
2. The above creates an exclusivity among developers without
appropriate attribution to the larger community.
You asked for comments, if you didn't want them you should have just
put the policy in place without the transparency.
>
> First off, Robert Treat did *not* do anything about non-code
> contributors, as evidenced by the fact that there are exactly zero
I didn't say he did. Once again you are flailing about like a upside
down turtle. I said, that he stated that is how he made the assessment.
Just because his follow through may or may not have been (I actually
don't have an opinion on that) isn't what it should have been doesn't
excuse the fact that it is what he in theory used to make the
selections for submission to core.
My point is simple:
Either you include all contributors or you don't.
Your "Draft" excludes some of the biggest contributors we have,
including Jean-Paul and Gabriele.
> non-code contributors in either section. (and don't bring up Devrim;
> packaging is code, as you'd know if you edited RPMs).
I have edited RPMS and the above is completely off topic for the
thread. Why are you being so difficult about this. If you didn't want
feedback you shouldn't have asked for it.
>
> Second off, the proposed core policy is an attempt to list *more*
> non-code contributors than have ever been listed before. Your only
If this was true, you wouldn't separate them. You would categorize them
based on their respective merits.
> issue of substance is that we're not moving *fast enough* for you.
> Shouldn't you be busy with other things, like PostgreSQL East?
>
Josh do not portend to tell me my priorities.
> Well, not everything has to be a crisis. Some things we can plan
> out, and deploy one change at a time.
>
Yes, which is exactly what I am trying to do. Which is why I suggested
a detailed (although not exacting) alternative plan. It is also why I
called Bruce so that he could here in my words exactly what my thinking
was.
I don't expect this to be resolved today or tomorrow but doing things
the wrong way for the sake of expediency isn't helpful either.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
- --
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:30:19 -0700 "Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > I don't expect this to be resolved today or tomorrow but doing things > the wrong way for the sake of expediency isn't helpful either. JoshB asked me to post this: (02:41:47 PM) linuxpoet: YOu basically want to rush through a bunch of changes, that are wrong in the first place, for expediency sake (02:41:49 PM) linuxpoet: there is no reason for it (02:42:12 PM) agliodbs: so, you're in favor of delaying an update to the contributor listings for weeks or months while we work out a new policy? (02:42:27 PM) agliodbs: just to be clear (02:42:49 PM) linuxpoet: I would rather do it correctly, than do what you suggest. Yes. (02:43:04 PM) linuxpoet: That means communication, transperancy, and a plan (02:43:12 PM) linuxpoet: which includes documentation and understanding of the purpose of the list (02:43:21 PM) agliodbs: and in the meantime, nothing gets updated, correct? (02:43:31 PM) linuxpoet: It isn't like that is a change :P (02:43:50 PM) agliodbs: mind posting that viewpoint on a list? (02:43:56 PM) linuxpoet: I thought I had but sure (02:44:00 PM) agliodbs: I think it's liable to be controversial Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake > > Sincerely, > > Joshua D. Drake - -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH1azpATb/zqfZUUQRAkpgAJ9zJbKGlqvB4s9uzOTF7HPxvQhGSwCgli6E 7eWWR+DLTNJgotblTbOb84Q= =jLgm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 10:30:59AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hello, > > Per the following emails and a discussion with Bruce Momjian on the > phone I am suggesting a change (and documentation) of the way > contributors will be determined and displayed on PostgreSQL.Org. Is there some urgency on this? I guess I should be a little peeved that my name is nowhere on your proposed change list, but frankly, I'm just plain puzzled. What's going on here, and what's your urgency with making something go? Cheers, David. -- David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/ Phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Yahoo!: dfetter Skype: davidfetter XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com Remember to vote! Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:54:22 -0700 David Fetter <david@fetter.org> wrote: > On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 10:30:59AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Hello, > > > > Per the following emails and a discussion with Bruce Momjian on the > > phone I am suggesting a change (and documentation) of the way > > contributors will be determined and displayed on PostgreSQL.Org. > > Is there some urgency on this? I guess I should be a little peeved > that my name is nowhere on your proposed change list David it wasn't a definitive list, it was examples for presentation of the idea :P > , but frankly, > I'm just plain puzzled. I am not sure where the urgency thought process came up. Josh posted a request for comments, and the thread continued. > > What's going on here, and what's your urgency with making something > go? > > Cheers, > David. - -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH1a74ATb/zqfZUUQRAsEZAKCgKyJBPb46Gw6ij5+eDZxIWjXcegCeMeH0 cVOwaT5X9D/bZsq/tNMfdxg= =JmeE -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 02:30:19PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Either you include all contributors or you don't. That is surely a a false dichotomy. Surely we don't want to include everyone who ever answers a question on the mailing list, right? I think it'd be a bad idea to set up a big bureaucracy around all of this. The next step on this road is to create an appeals process to address people who've been taken off the list against their wishes. A
Ciao Joshua, > Your "Draft" excludes some of the biggest contributors we have, > including Jean-Paul and Gabriele. Seriously, there is no need to add my name. I do not feel like I am contributing to the Postgres project at all. On the other hand, if you want to put a name, rather than mine please add the organisations which I currently represent - ITPUG and PostgreSQL Europe (which has already been accounted). I would really appreciate this in particular for ITPUG, because without the help of the other members I would be pretty much useless. I feel like I am part of a team and I would like to stay at the same level as of my mates at ITPUG. In any case, thank you very much for having thought of me. :) Ciao ciao, Gabriele -- Gabriele Bartolini: Open source programmer and data architect Current Location: Prato, Tuscany, Italy gabriele.bartolini@gmail.com | www.gabrielebartolini.it "If I had been born ugly, you would never have heard of Pelé", George Best http://www.linkedin.com/in/gbartolini
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:27:46 -0400 Andrew Sullivan <ajs@crankycanuck.ca> wrote: > On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 02:30:19PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > Either you include all contributors or you don't. > > That is surely a a false dichotomy. Surely we don't want to include > everyone who ever answers a question on the mailing list, right? Of course not. As stated previously, my gripe is explicitly the idea that only developers can be major contributors. That is all. I have offered several solutions to that problem, including having a contributor_type column that would allow a major contributor to be designated as a hacker/developer but would not give them some preferential listing (artificial or not) over a non hacker. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake - -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH1bcfATb/zqfZUUQRAnngAJ4lA9E2UjYJv/52Vu/Ur77/PhSb2gCfUjyQ +T6LyjnhGM+J4dQzedXxVAM= =EDL6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Joshua D. Drake ha scritto: > French Community: > * Members: (either a link to membership page or a list as provided by > the French community) > * List: whatever their list is > * Website: http://www.postgresqlfr.org/ As ITPUG current President, I would suggest ITPUG, as a non profit organisation for the promotion of Postgres in Italy: www.itpug.org . Thank you. Ciao, Gabriele -- Gabriele Bartolini: Open source programmer and data architect Current Location: Prato, Tuscany, Italy gabriele.bartolini@gmail.com | www.gabrielebartolini.it "If I had been born ugly, you would never have heard of Pelé", George Best http://www.linkedin.com/in/gbartolini
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:33:12 +0100 Gabriele Bartolini <gabriele.bartolini@gmail.com> wrote: > Joshua D. Drake ha scritto: > > French Community: > > * Members: (either a link to membership page or a list as > > provided by the French community) > > * List: whatever their list is > > * Website: http://www.postgresqlfr.org/ > > As ITPUG current President, I would suggest ITPUG, as a non profit > organisation for the promotion of Postgres in Italy: www.itpug.org . Of course :). I didn't include *everyone* in the email because I was just presenting the idea. I would expect that we would have a thorough round of review to make sure no one was left out. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake - -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH1behATb/zqfZUUQRApRBAJ4l8EVjL5vmJNEoX99Mrg0C8rg3bwCcCkgP tQCVj3jXfJ5Holy1B8+9VgI= =Pcxg -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Andrew Sullivan wrote: > I think it'd be a bad idea to set up a big bureaucracy around all of this. > The next step on this road is to create an appeals process to address people > who've been taken off the list against their wishes. Don't worry -- there will be a nomination period for judges, and the community will vote for judges (who gets to vote is something still to be discussed). The judge's decision will not be final though: you can appeal to the Appeal Committee (which will be a triumvirate elected by -core) if you don't like it. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
On Mar 10, 2008, at 6:39 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Andrew Sullivan wrote: > >> I think it'd be a bad idea to set up a big bureaucracy around all >> of this. >> The next step on this road is to create an appeals process to >> address people >> who've been taken off the list against their wishes. > > Don't worry -- there will be a nomination period for judges, and the > community will vote for judges (who gets to vote is something still to > be discussed). The judge's decision will not be final though: you can > appeal to the Appeal Committee (which will be a triumvirate elected by > -core) if you don't like it. Can we also get FSF involved here? Surely they should be the last resort. -- Dan Langille -- http://www.langille.org/ dan@langille.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:39:36 -0300 Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote: > Andrew Sullivan wrote: > > > I think it'd be a bad idea to set up a big bureaucracy around all > > of this. The next step on this road is to create an appeals process > > to address people who've been taken off the list against their > > wishes. > > Don't worry -- there will be a nomination period for judges, and the > community will vote for judges (who gets to vote is something still to > be discussed). The judge's decision will not be final though: you can > appeal to the Appeal Committee (which will be a triumvirate elected by > -core) if you don't like it. > +1 Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake - -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH1blGATb/zqfZUUQRAlbzAJsFF8rSXx35vxVqE2w/pJ8/QBuEOwCcDlLQ hNzp4MFoezDzIAJIjRknisw= =kNbb -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Monday, March 10, 2008 15:33:01 -0700 "Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:27:46 -0400 > Andrew Sullivan <ajs@crankycanuck.ca> wrote: > >> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 02:30:19PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> > Either you include all contributors or you don't. >> >> That is surely a a false dichotomy. Surely we don't want to include >> everyone who ever answers a question on the mailing list, right? > > Of course not. As stated previously, my gripe is explicitly the idea > that only developers can be major contributors. That is all. Actually, it is you that put that label in ... it *had* always been "Major Developers", not "Contributors" ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFH1c5T4QvfyHIvDvMRAqSYAJ9FuOoQPYhvjzWgvb1TRNEJA85mLwCfVQe4 FBzWQu5w8/ynlhbjMQzi+6Q= =JGXK -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Just curious, but is there any reason why the old system wasn't working, other then the fact that since you aren't a developer, you weren't listed as a Major Developer? This is the way I'm seeing things so far "I think I'm Major, but I'm not listed as Major, therefore the current system is broken and needs to be fixed" ... Now, of course, CMD *is* a Major Contributor, but I believe that that *is* listed on the main web page ... You are mixing up Developers with Contributors ... what I think would be an idea would be to have two lists under a heading like 'Community Members' or somethign simliar ... then have a list for Developers seperate from Contributors ... - --On Monday, March 10, 2008 10:30:59 -0700 "Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hello, > > Per the following emails and a discussion with Bruce Momjian on the > phone I am suggesting a change (and documentation) of the way > contributors will be determined and displayed on PostgreSQL.Org. > > Reference: > > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2008-03/msg00143.php > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2007-12/msg00022.php > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2007-11/msg00432.php > > [1] The contributor label will be removed in favor of groups or teams. > Examples include: > > PostgreSQL.Org: > > Core: > * Members: Josh Berkus, Dave Page, Jan Wieck, Bruce Momjian, Peter > * List: pgsql-core (private list) > > Sysadmins: > * Members: Joshua Drake, Marc Fournier, Devrim Gunduz, Magnus > Hagander, Stefan Kaltenbrunner, Dave Page, Robert Treat > * List: sysadmins (link to subscribe form) > > WWW Team: > * Members: Joshua Drake, Devrim Gunduz, Magnus Hagander, Stefan > Kaltenbrunner, Dave Page, Robert Treat > * List: pgsql-www (link to subscribe form) > > Regional Communities: > > PostgreSQL Europe: > * Members: (either a link to membership page or a list as provided by > PGEU) > * List: pgsql-eu-general (link to subscribe form) > * Website: http://www.postgresql.eu/ > > French Community: > * Members: (either a link to membership page or a list as provided by > the French community) > * List: whatever their list is > * Website: http://www.postgresqlfr.org/ > > [2] Contributors will be determined for each team will be resolved by > the respective teams (e.g; who is a part of the team, or leaves the > team etc..) > > [3] The listing shall be respective of PostgreSQL (as opposed to just > PostgreSQL.Org). Thus incorporating all international communities. > > Presentation: > > The best presentation for this should be argued out on -www but my > feeling is that we will change the /community/contributor page to have > links instead of listings. The links would describe in full what each > section is. For example: > > Core: > Steering committee and release team for the PostgreSQL Software > > WWW (link): > Web development team for PostgreSQL.Org > > Sysadmins (link): > System administrators for PostgreSQL.oRg > > PostgreSQL Europe: > European Non profit dedicated to assisting the European community > > PostgreSQLFR: > French Non profit dedicated to assisting the French speaking community. > > Thoughts, flames etc? > > Once this is hashed out, I will put it on the wiki so there will be no > confusion in the future. > > Sincerely, > > Joshua D. Drake > > > > > > - -- > The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ > PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ > Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate > PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFH1XBTATb/zqfZUUQRAuSCAJ0TTdPMw7SGnIixFJ3h2Efuidvg1QCeM9fT > kaoC1pRtzMVeqD4hufXpv64= > =hU9b > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org) > To make changes to your subscription: > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFH1dC34QvfyHIvDvMRAiliAJ9p2S/SdhHeTxpxDs+jecLW1VvfQgCeIyT/ S2wfkJ3l3LCDjmV9FTSk9lo= =2kh5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:12:03 -0300 "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> wrote: > > Of course not. As stated previously, my gripe is explicitly the idea > > that only developers can be major contributors. That is all. > > Actually, it is you that put that label in ... it *had* always been > "Major Developers", not "Contributors" ... Yes after must discussion on -www, my patch to change developers to contributors was accepted. At the same time the page was moved from /developers to /community. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake - -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH1dIiATb/zqfZUUQRAkKpAJ43jfIdSwtO9XTwab/C3yGLjbCtfgCfRFNv nInbFbF4YNhmz7N3JQNCYQE= =D8vw -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Alvaro, > > I think it'd be a bad idea to set up a big bureaucracy around all of > > this. The next step on this road is to create an appeals process to > > address people who've been taken off the list against their wishes. > > Don't worry -- there will be a nomination period for judges, and the > community will vote for judges (who gets to vote is something still to > be discussed). The judge's decision will not be final though: you can > appeal to the Appeal Committee (which will be a triumvirate elected by > -core) if you don't like it. Before people fly off the deep end: I'm pretty sure Alvaro is joking. -- --Josh Josh Berkus PostgreSQL @ Sun San Francisco
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:22:15 -0300 "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Just curious, but is there any reason why the old system wasn't > working, other then the fact that since you aren't a developer, you > weren't listed as a Major Developer? This is the way I'm seeing > things so far "I think I'm Major, but I'm not listed as Major, > therefore the current system is broken and needs to be fixed" ... Well isn't that interesting. I would have thought you knew me better than that by now. How unfortunate. I do not care if I am personally listed. My reputation (for good or bad) precedes me and I in know way need such as listing for anyone to recognize my work for this community. My concern which has been stated on multiple points on this thread is that people who are major contributors are recognized as such, regardless of their code contributions. > > You are mixing up Developers with Contributors ... what I think would > be an idea would be to have two lists under a heading like 'Community > Members' or somethign simliar ... then have a list for Developers > seperate from Contributors ... Marc this is pretty much what has already been discussed in entirety throughout the day. Please read the following: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2008-03/msg00014.php I suggest a multi-tiered list that is representative for each group including developers. I also as you are very well aware suggested an even simpler solution directly to you by adding a contributor_type. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake - -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH1dUOATb/zqfZUUQRArfaAJ9vQYQOrNlgLNb3YsgzK+Fo20a7CgCeJrXq n9LhLvEQRQ93e33FHRLjbzY= =lNFi -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:39:30 -0800 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: > Alvaro, > > > > I think it'd be a bad idea to set up a big bureaucracy around all > > > of this. The next step on this road is to create an appeals > > > process to address people who've been taken off the list against > > > their wishes. > > > > Don't worry -- there will be a nomination period for judges, and the > > community will vote for judges (who gets to vote is something still > > to be discussed). The judge's decision will not be final though: > > you can appeal to the Appeal Committee (which will be a triumvirate > > elected by -core) if you don't like it. > > Before people fly off the deep end: I'm pretty sure Alvaro is joking. > Yes he is :). Joshua D. Drake - -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH1dW4ATb/zqfZUUQRApOBAJsGQgU1q1In+66sfN6L2oSC8PBRXACbBzI/ jGPZc9p9Q8iaA01MsvOOX/g= =yj8J -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Monday, March 10, 2008 17:40:46 -0700 "Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > I do not care if I am personally listed. Actually, I don't disagree that you should be listed, I disagree with merging Contributor and Developer into one ... there should be two lists, of which you would definitely be label'd a 'Major Contributor' ... > My concern which has been stated on multiple points on this thread is > that people who are major contributors are recognized as such, > regardless of their code contributions. Agreed, but distinguishing between 'contributor' and 'developer' doesn't diminish that ... > I suggest a multi-tiered list that is representative for each group > including developers. Sorry, must have missed that part of the thread ... could you do a quick mock up of what you are thinking on the above? - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFH1eSa4QvfyHIvDvMRAmTBAKDCJ9Pjdrz6+PbIgB73mE8hJKPKsACgzaVG b3hZYvqhTaoyYY8abOe8ppU= =FBPA -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
> ... there should be two lists, of which you
> would definitely be label'd a 'Major Contributor' ...
I've been thinking that for awhile. Core is in a good position to see
who are major or minor code contributors, but we are not so well placed
to see who's contributing in a non-code fashion. If there's going to
be recognition for non-code contributions I'd be happy to see that be a
separate list managed by someone else. How this all gets presented on
the website (one page or several?) is not clear.
regards, tom lane
On Mar 10, 2008, at 9:55 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
> "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
>> ... there should be two lists, of which you
>> would definitely be label'd a 'Major Contributor' ...
>
> I've been thinking that for awhile. Core is in a good position to see
> who are major or minor code contributors, but we are not so well
> placed
> to see who's contributing in a non-code fashion. If there's going to
> be recognition for non-code contributions I'd be happy to see that
> be a
> separate list managed by someone else. How this all gets presented on
> the website (one page or several?) is not clear.
I always like to look at how others have done this before.
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/
index.html
--
Dan Langille -- http://www.langille.org/
dan@langille.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Monday, March 10, 2008 21:55:08 -0400 Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote: > "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes: >> ... there should be two lists, of which you >> would definitely be label'd a 'Major Contributor' ... > > I've been thinking that for awhile. Core is in a good position to see > who are major or minor code contributors, but we are not so well placed > to see who's contributing in a non-code fashion. If there's going to > be recognition for non-code contributions I'd be happy to see that be a > separate list managed by someone else. How this all gets presented on > the website (one page or several?) is not clear. Definitely +1 ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFH1ejL4QvfyHIvDvMRAr0DAKC5jb6AZ8FnUKeSa6cAWuLL64nnlgCfUmJH unSK7zC0NtlU7g/VdNAZXuk= =/HW6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Monday, March 10, 2008 21:59:49 -0400 Dan Langille <dan@langille.org> wrote: > > On Mar 10, 2008, at 9:55 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > >> "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes: >>> ... there should be two lists, of which you >>> would definitely be label'd a 'Major Contributor' ... >> >> I've been thinking that for awhile. Core is in a good position to see >> who are major or minor code contributors, but we are not so well >> placed >> to see who's contributing in a non-code fashion. If there's going to >> be recognition for non-code contributions I'd be happy to see that >> be a >> separate list managed by someone else. How this all gets presented on >> the website (one page or several?) is not clear. > > > I always like to look at how others have done this before. > > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributors/index.html That one definitely hits it on the mark ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFH1ek24QvfyHIvDvMRAgunAKDZzc5yNLQAttvcAaKRgHILu43yGwCcCMbc sMMYiXG7TdNh9lhzzDqNYyg= =3HaU -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:55:08 -0400 Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote: > "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes: > > ... there should be two lists, of which you > > would definitely be label'd a 'Major Contributor' ... > > I've been thinking that for awhile. Core is in a good position to see > who are major or minor code contributors, but we are not so well > placed to see who's contributing in a non-code fashion. If there's > going to be recognition for non-code contributions I'd be happy to > see that be a separate list managed by someone else. How this all > gets presented on the website (one page or several?) is not clear. I would be happy to mock something up. At least then we are all working from something tangible. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake - -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL political pundit | Mocker of Dolphins -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFH1e25ATb/zqfZUUQRApUuAJ9u7SxfFfvtUSEbTRbwFNvIBFYw+ACfU5V2 ZmKxLR5lYiC9VZouT53A/xU= =serh -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Andrew Sullivan wrote: > On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 02:30:19PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > Either you include all contributors or you don't. > > That is surely a a false dichotomy. Surely we don't want to include > everyone who ever answers a question on the mailing list, right? > > I think it'd be a bad idea to set up a big bureaucracy around all of this. > The next step on this road is to create an appeals process to address people > who've been taken off the list against their wishes. As a foreshadowing of what might happen, remember the valid complaints we got about people who fix bugs not being listed as much in the release notes. Listing people's names was a secondary goal of the release notes so we didn't change our policy. If we do that list, there is going to be controversy about who is listed, but we have had the list up for a long time and had few problems so hopefully it will go fine. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Joshua D. Drake wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:39:36 -0300 > Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote: > > > Andrew Sullivan wrote: > > > > > I think it'd be a bad idea to set up a big bureaucracy around all > > > of this. The next step on this road is to create an appeals process > > > to address people who've been taken off the list against their > > > wishes. > > > > Don't worry -- there will be a nomination period for judges, and the > > community will vote for judges (who gets to vote is something still to > > be discussed). The judge's decision will not be final though: you can > > appeal to the Appeal Committee (which will be a triumvirate elected by > > -core) if you don't like it. > > > > +1 OK, where are the smileys? I am getting worried. ;-) -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > > +1 > > OK, where are the smileys? I am getting worried. ;-) Heh... fair enough ;) :) :P Joshua D. Drake -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL SPI Liaison | SPI Director | PostgreSQL political pundit
Attachment
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> I do not care if I am personally listed. My reputation (for good or bad)
> precedes me and I in know way need such as listing for anyone to
> recognize my work for this community.
Joshua Drake will always be "Mr. Reasonable" in my book:
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2008-01/msg01418.php
;-)
--
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us
EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com
+ If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Marc G. Fournier wrote: > Actually, I don't disagree that you should be listed, I disagree > with merging Contributor and Developer into one ... there should > be two lists, of which you would definitely be label'd a 'Major > Contributor' ... I actually think the "contributor" label is much too vague for us to use. We have developers, www team, regional organizers, infrastructure administrators, etc. Everyone of those people is a contributor. "Contributor" is just too generic, and its us is going to trip us up. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > Joshua Drake will always be "Mr. Reasonable" in my book: > > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2008-01/msg01418.php > > ;-) > I am never going to live that down. Ten years from now, people are going to post that link... :) Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL SPI Liaison | SPI Director | PostgreSQL political pundit
Attachment
Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:20:22 -0400 (EDT) > Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > > > Joshua Drake will always be "Mr. Reasonable" in my book: > > > > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2008-01/msg01418.php > > > > ;-) > > > > I am never going to live that down. Ten years from now, people are > going to post that link... :) And I guarantee you I will be one of them. LOL -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://postgres.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
On Monday 10 March 2008 18:27, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 02:30:19PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > Either you include all contributors or you don't.
>
> That is surely a a false dichotomy. Surely we don't want to include
> everyone who ever answers a question on the mailing list, right?
>
> I think it'd be a bad idea to set up a big bureaucracy around all of this.
> The next step on this road is to create an appeals process to address
> people who've been taken off the list against their wishes.
>
For the record, no one has ever (to my knowledge) been taken off the list
against thier wishes.
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
On Monday 10 March 2008 21:59, Dan Langille wrote:
> On Mar 10, 2008, at 9:55 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
> > "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
> >> ... there should be two lists, of which you
> >> would definitely be label'd a 'Major Contributor' ...
> >
> > I've been thinking that for awhile. Core is in a good position to see
> > who are major or minor code contributors, but we are not so well
> > placed
> > to see who's contributing in a non-code fashion. If there's going to
> > be recognition for non-code contributions I'd be happy to see that
> > be a
> > separate list managed by someone else. How this all gets presented on
> > the website (one page or several?) is not clear.
>
> I always like to look at how others have done this before.
>
And I am always fascinated how we don't look at how we have done it in the
past.
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
On Monday 10 March 2008 17:30, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
> 2) non-code contributors now get listed in the "Contributors" section,
> but are not eligible for the "Major Developers" section. This is a
> compromise between previous practice (not listing non-code contributors
> at all) and what some people would like to see ("Major Contributors"
> with non-code contributors); I figure we'll revisit this policy in a
> year or so.
>
<snip>
> > First off, Robert Treat did *not* do anything about non-code
> > contributors, as evidenced by the fact that there are exactly zero
>
> I didn't say he did. Once again you are flailing about like a upside
> down turtle. I said, that he stated that is how he made the assessment.
> Just because his follow through may or may not have been (I actually
> don't have an opinion on that) isn't what it should have been doesn't
> excuse the fact that it is what he in theory used to make the
> selections for submission to core.
>
Please guys, continue to interprete my words to serve your own agendas rather
than asking me for any kind of clarification. Really. It's fine.
For the rest of the world, my definition of non-code contributors are
contributors who have not contributed C code to the back end. To that end,
the bit that non-code contributors can't be considered major contributors is
pure bunk; several people have made it into the list of "Major Contributors"
who fit that mold, and actually we have 3 core team members who, were they to
step down from core, I suspect would be placed in the list of Major
Contributors as well.
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
On Monday 10 March 2008 21:55, Tom Lane wrote:
> "Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@hub.org> writes:
> > ... there should be two lists, of which you
> > would definitely be label'd a 'Major Contributor' ...
>
> I've been thinking that for awhile. Core is in a good position to see
> who are major or minor code contributors, but we are not so well placed
> to see who's contributing in a non-code fashion.
A large part of the problem is that Joshua, for quite some time now, has been
trying to change the definition of what the contributors on this page means.
Granted he has been smart about it, getting little things changed over time
to get closer and closer to his end goal. In the past we kept it with the
original spirit of the page, which was to recgonize those who have made
contributions that help further the core project. Core is generally in a good
position to know who those people are (or at least come to agreement with
some minimal prodding).
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:23:25 -0400 Robert Treat <xzilla@users.sourceforge.net> wrote: > A large part of the problem is that Joshua, for quite some time now, > has been trying to change the definition of what the contributors on > this page means. I have? According to your other posts, my "goals" were in line with the intent. All I did was change wording. > Granted he has been smart about it, getting little > things changed over time to get closer and closer to his end goal. For the record my original goal was long since served. Which was to have the list be for "contributors" and under "community" versus "Developers" and under "developers". The point being of course, to make sure that attribution to non-c developers was also possible on the list without confusion. I feel I made that clear when I submitted the patch 3 months ago. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL SPI Liaison | SPI Director | PostgreSQL political pundit
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Hi, On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 01:23 -0400, Robert Treat wrote: > Granted he has been smart about it, getting little things changed over > time to get closer and closer to his end goal. ...like "world domination plan?" :) Sorry, I could not resist :) -- Devrim GÜNDÜZ , RHCE PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: plPHP, ODBCng - http://www.commandprompt.com/
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On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:11:35 -0700 Devrim GÜNDÜZ <devrim@commandprompt.com> wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 01:23 -0400, Robert Treat wrote: > > Granted he has been smart about it, getting little things changed > > over time to get closer and closer to his end goal. > > ...like "world domination plan?" :) > > Sorry, I could not resist :) SHHHH.... We can't tell people about that one until we defrost Mr. X. Joshua D. Drake -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL SPI Liaison | SPI Director | PostgreSQL political pundit