Thread: Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Magnus Hagander
Date:
David,

there has been a -core decision that the name of our product is
PostgreSQL. Based on this, I think it's appropriate for the weekly news
that is posted on the projects main webssite to be named PostgreSQL
Weekly News. (you can call it what you want on your blog :-P)

I notice it's already called Postgres on the site and this is just a
template rename. I guess I just didn't check the site earlier on - I
just assumed it would be called PostgreSQL weekly news after the name
decision. 

//Magnus


pgweb@pgweb.postgresql.org wrote:
> Author: dfetter
> Date: 2008-04-07 14:32:01 -0700 (Mon, 07 Apr 2008)
> New Revision: 2038
> 
> Modified:
>    trunk/portal/tools/pwn/skeleton.pwn
> Log:
> Changed to easier-to-pronounce spelling ;)
> 
> Modified: trunk/portal/tools/pwn/skeleton.pwn
> ===================================================================
> --- trunk/portal/tools/pwn/skeleton.pwn    2008-04-07 20:48:11
> UTC (rev 2037) +++ trunk/portal/tools/pwn/skeleton.pwn
> 2008-04-07 21:32:01 UTC (rev 2038) @@ -1,20 +1,24 @@
> -== PostgreSQL Weekly News - DATE ==
> +== Postgres Weekly News - DATE ==
>  
> -== PostgreSQL Product News ==
> +== Postgres Product News ==
>  
> -== PostgreSQL Jobs for MONTH ==
> +== Postgres Jobs for MONTH ==
>  
>  http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-jobs/JOB_URL/threads.php
>  
> -== PostgreSQL Local ==
> +== Postgres Local ==
>  
>  Everything this week was global.
>  
> -== PostgreSQL in the News ==
> +== Postgres in the News ==
>  
>  Planet PostgreSQL: http://www.planetpostgresql.org/
>  
>  General Bits, Archives and occasional new articles:
>  http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/
>  
> -PostgreSQL Weekly News is brought to you this week by David Fetter
> +Postgres Weekly News is brought to you this week by David Fetter
> +
> +Submit news and announcements by Sunday at 3:00pm Pacific time.
> +Please send English language ones to david@fetter.org, German
> language +to pwn@pgug.de, Italian language to pwn@itpug.org.
> 


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Devrim GÜNDÜZ
Date:
Hi,

On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 09:36 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:

> there has been a -core decision that the name of our product is
> PostgreSQL. Based on this, I think it's appropriate for the weekly
> news that is posted on the projects main webssite to be named
> PostgreSQL Weekly News.

+1 on that. Even though it is David's project for now, we need to be
consistent about the name on the public side.

> (you can call it what you want on your blog :-P)

Of course.

Regards,
--
Devrim GÜNDÜZ , RHCE
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, ODBCng - http://www.commandprompt.com/

Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Alvaro Herrera
Date:
Devrim GÜNDÜZ wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 09:36 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> 
> > there has been a -core decision that the name of our product is
> > PostgreSQL. Based on this, I think it's appropriate for the weekly
> > news that is posted on the projects main webssite to be named
> > PostgreSQL Weekly News. 
> 
> +1 on that. Even though it is David's project for now, we need to be
> consistent about the name on the public side.

AFAIK Postgres is an official alias, so I don't see the point.  Besides,
the -core decision said AFAIR that we would stick to the name PostgreSQL
*for now*, with an eye to an eventual switch to Postgres as we went
making the latter name better known (i.e. using it).

-- 
Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum
Date:
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:13:55 -0400 Alvaro Herrera wrote:

> Devrim GÜNDÜZ wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 09:36 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> >
> > > there has been a -core decision that the name of our product is
> > > PostgreSQL. Based on this, I think it's appropriate for the weekly
> > > news that is posted on the projects main webssite to be named
> > > PostgreSQL Weekly News.
> >
> > +1 on that. Even though it is David's project for now, we need to be
> > consistent about the name on the public side.
>
> AFAIK Postgres is an official alias, so I don't see the point.  Besides,
> the -core decision said AFAIR that we would stick to the name PostgreSQL
> *for now*, with an eye to an eventual switch to Postgres as we went
> making the latter name better known (i.e. using it).

But even if "Postgres" is an official alias, we don't need to use two
different names on our websites and our (semi-)official newsletters.

The point of an alias is a shortcut for common use, not to entirely
rename the product name.


Bye

--             Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum
German PostgreSQL User Group


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Alvaro Herrera
Date:
Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:13:55 -0400 Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> 
> > Devrim GÜNDÜZ wrote:
> > > 
> > > On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 09:36 +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> > > 
> > > > there has been a -core decision that the name of our product is
> > > > PostgreSQL. Based on this, I think it's appropriate for the weekly
> > > > news that is posted on the projects main webssite to be named
> > > > PostgreSQL Weekly News. 
> > > 
> > > +1 on that. Even though it is David's project for now, we need to be
> > > consistent about the name on the public side.
> > 
> > AFAIK Postgres is an official alias, so I don't see the point.  Besides,
> > the -core decision said AFAIR that we would stick to the name PostgreSQL
> > *for now*, with an eye to an eventual switch to Postgres as we went
> > making the latter name better known (i.e. using it).
> 
> But even if "Postgres" is an official alias, we don't need to use two
> different names on our websites and our (semi-)official newsletters.

Even though I don't agree with this argument, I don't see why everyone
else is so keen on forcing David a policy on how to name the newsletter.
No one forces Devrim on the policy of the planet, for example; even
though some of us disagree with it.

-- 
Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Dave Page"
Date:
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 3:07 PM, Alvaro Herrera
<alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote:
>  Even though I don't agree with this argument, I don't see why everyone
>  else is so keen on forcing David a policy on how to name the newsletter.
>  No one forces Devrim on the policy of the planet, for example; even
>  though some of us disagree with it.

PWN is published on the PostgreSQL project website on which we should
be professional and consistent. Using both names there would be
neither unless we went through some mass renaming project to use
PostgreSQL first on each page and Postgres for subsequent occurances
or something similar.

-- 
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
David Fetter
Date:
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:36:24AM +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> David,
> 
> there has been a -core decision that the name of our product is
> PostgreSQL. Based on this, I think it's appropriate for the weekly
> news that is posted on the projects main webssite to be named
> PostgreSQL Weekly News. (you can call it what you want on your blog
> :-P)

I have been publishing the Postgres Weekly News under that name for
quite some time, including on the web site, and the sky has not
fallen.  I will change the name on express written orders from -core.

Cheers,
David.
-- 
David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 07:32:55 -0700
David Fetter <david@fetter.org> wrote:
> I have been publishing the Postgres Weekly News under that name for
> quite some time, including on the web site, and the sky has not
> fallen.  I will change the name on express written orders from -core.

Well it isn't actually -core's decision :P I would think. At least not
as I understand core's role, which is as steering committee and release
manager.

I would say that it is actually the web team's decision as they
determine what and how things go up on the website.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

-- 
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate




Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 10:07:48 -0400
Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote:

> > But even if "Postgres" is an official alias, we don't need to use
> > two different names on our websites and our (semi-)official
> > newsletters.
> 
> Even though I don't agree with this argument, I don't see why everyone
> else is so keen on forcing David a policy on how to name the
> newsletter. No one forces Devrim on the policy of the planet, for
> example; even though some of us disagree with it.
> 

I think they are different things Alvaro and to be clear we actually
have pushed Devrim on several policies including insuring that he
publishes the policies that he is setting forth on planet.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


-- 
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate




Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 15:52:25 +0200
"Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum" <adsmail@wars-nicht.de> wrote:


> But even if "Postgres" is an official alias, we don't need to use two
> different names on our websites and our (semi-)official newsletters.
> 
> The point of an alias is a shortcut for common use, not to entirely
> rename the product name.

Right. The official name is: PostgreSQL.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake



-- 
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate




Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:13:55 -0400
Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote:

> AFAIK Postgres is an official alias, so I don't see the point.
> Besides, the -core decision said AFAIR that we would stick to the
> name PostgreSQL *for now*, with an eye to an eventual switch to
> Postgres as we went making the latter name better known (i.e. using
> it).

No that was not the decision. See the archives for the official core
response from Dave Page.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake 


-- 
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate




Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Marc G. Fournier"
Date:
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:13:55 -0400
> Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote:
>
>> AFAIK Postgres is an official alias, so I don't see the point.
>> Besides, the -core decision said AFAIR that we would stick to the
>> name PostgreSQL *for now*, with an eye to an eventual switch to
>> Postgres as we went making the latter name better known (i.e. using
>> it).
>
> No that was not the decision. See the archives for the official core
> response from Dave Page.

+1 ...



Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Josh Berkus
Date:
Alvaro,

> Even though I don't agree with this argument, I don't see why everyone
> else is so keen on forcing David a policy on how to name the newsletter.
> No one forces Devrim on the policy of the planet, for example; even
> though some of us disagree with it.

PWN is going on www.postgresql.org and being distributed through 
pgsql-announce.  If it was on David's blog, we wouldn't care what he 
called it.

Anyway, David, we had Core's opinion that PostgreSQL would remain the 
official name of the project for the forseeable future, and when I 
chatted with you on IRC you indicated that you would change the name of 
PWN back.  I can write you a "cease & desist" letter signed by core, but 
why do you want to be obnoxious about it?

--Josh



Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Greg Sabino Mullane"
Date:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160


> there has been a -core decision that the name of our product is
> PostgreSQL. Based on this, I think it's appropriate for the weekly
> news that is posted on the projects main webssite to be named
> PostgreSQL Weekly News.

Wow, David Fetter and others provides this valuable service, as
volunteers, with practically no thanks, and you want to complain
about the name he uses? That's incredibly petty. Have there been
complaints from people confused about which project he is
writing about each week?

- --
Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200804081217
http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iEYEAREDAAYFAkf7mxcACgkQvJuQZxSWSsj5+gCg306Xn/GK6w+Z9C5fZBnUfKgW
JVkAoI9SATkilrku7o3DAJMAQA52jkB/
=lEs9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
On Tue,  8 Apr 2008 16:20:32 -0000
"Greg Sabino Mullane" <greg@turnstep.com> wrote:


> Wow, David Fetter and others provides this valuable service, as
> volunteers, with practically no thanks, and you want to complain
> about the name he uses? That's incredibly petty. Have there been
> complaints from people confused about which project he is
> writing about each week?

I don't think (at least I am not) questioning the amount of effort that
is put in to PWN. However the arguments here are not about PWN, they
are about the representation of our project and how it is presented to
our users. The name of this project is PostgreSQL and we should be
using the official name.

It could be just as easily said that it is particularly offensive
that someone would so easily discount the official name of the project
that so many of our contributors put our time into at no cost.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


-- 
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate




Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Alvaro Herrera
Date:
Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:

> > there has been a -core decision that the name of our product is
> > PostgreSQL. Based on this, I think it's appropriate for the weekly
> > news that is posted on the projects main webssite to be named
> > PostgreSQL Weekly News.
> 
> Wow, David Fetter and others provides this valuable service, as
> volunteers, with practically no thanks, and you want to complain
> about the name he uses? That's incredibly petty. Have there been
> complaints from people confused about which project he is
> writing about each week?

+1.

Let's consider that David has been publishing the newsletter under the
Postgres name for six months.

-- 
Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> On Tue,  8 Apr 2008 16:20:32 -0000
> "Greg Sabino Mullane" <greg@turnstep.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> > Wow, David Fetter and others provides this valuable service, as
> > volunteers, with practically no thanks, and you want to complain
> > about the name he uses? That's incredibly petty. Have there been
> > complaints from people confused about which project he is
> > writing about each week?
> 
> I don't think (at least I am not) questioning the amount of effort that
> is put in to PWN. However the arguments here are not about PWN, they
> are about the representation of our project and how it is presented to
> our users. The name of this project is PostgreSQL and we should be
> using the official name.

This opens the larger question of when the alias "Postgres" should be
used.

--  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB
http://enterprisedb.com
 + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Alvaro Herrera
Date:
Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> It could be just as easily said that it is particularly offensive
> that someone would so easily discount the official name of the project
> that so many of our contributors put our time into at no cost.

It is offensive to me that people is now disregarding the fact that
Postgres is an official alias.

-- 
Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:30:36 -0400
Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote:

> +1.
> 
> Let's consider that David has been publishing the newsletter under the
> Postgres name for six months.
> 

So he slipped under the radar. That's doesn't make it right.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

-- 
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate




Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 12:35:22 -0400
Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote:

> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> 
> > It could be just as easily said that it is particularly offensive
> > that someone would so easily discount the official name of the
> > project that so many of our contributors put our time into at no
> > cost.
> 
> It is offensive to me that people is now disregarding the fact that
> Postgres is an official alias.

Sigh... Alvaro you don't actually think that is what is happening do
you? Take a step back and try reading the whole thread. This isn't
about discounting the word "Postgres" it is about using it
appropriately.  

Lot's of people (most probably) say, "I want a coke". Coca-Cola says,
"Coca-Cola" on their product (which is what we are dealing with
here), 100% of the time.

It is about consistency in delivery. I know many hackers won't get
this and that's fine but it is excessively important in the world of
advocacy, promotion and education for products, corporations and yes
projects.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


-- 
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate




Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Josh Berkus
Date:
Alvaro,

> It is offensive to me that people is now disregarding the fact that
> Postgres is an official alias.
> 

An alias (or nickname) doesn't get used for the title of pages on 
www.postgresql.org, or in the docs.  That's really the difference 
between an alias and an official name.

Of course, this may not be that consequetial since everyone seems to 
refer to Postgre(SQL) Weekly News as "PWN".  I know that, despite 
reading it most weeks for the last 6 months, this is the first time I 
noticed.

So, thinking about this further, I think this should be up to the web 
team on the amount of naming consistency they want to enforce -- WWW 
committers can always change the page title after David posts it..  I 
don't really think it's a core decision, and how's core going to give 
David "orders" anyway?  What do we do if he doesn't follow them?  Put 
him on KP detail?

--Josh



Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Devrim GÜNDÜZ
Date:
Hi,

On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 12:30 -0400, Alvaro Herrera wrote:

> Let's consider that David has been publishing the newsletter under the
> Postgres name for six months.

Actually I complained him privately a few months ago about this. David
was using "Planet Postgres" in PWN, and David kindly changed it to
"Planet PostgreSQL".

...and I was trying to take people's attention to this by copying PWN
into my blog and replacing Postgres' with PostgreSQL. :)
--
Devrim GÜNDÜZ , RHCE
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, ODBCng - http://www.commandprompt.com/

Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Alvaro Herrera
Date:
Devrim GÜNDÜZ wrote:

> ...and I was trying to take people's attention to this by copying PWN
> into my blog and replacing Postgres' with PostgreSQL. :)

Without any link back or attribution?  Hmm.  And you did get a comment
on the last time you did it:

http://people.planetpostgresql.org/devrim/comment.php?serendipity[entry_id]=105&serendipity[type]=comments

-- 
Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Alvaro Herrera
Date:
Josh Berkus wrote:

> PWN is going on www.postgresql.org and being distributed through  
> pgsql-announce.  If it was on David's blog, we wouldn't care what he  
> called it.

Hmm, so we rule on the name of things published in pgsql-announce too?
Awesome.

-- 
Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Andrew Sullivan
Date:
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:32:27AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> is put in to PWN. However the arguments here are not about PWN, they
> are about the representation of our project and how it is presented to
> our users.  The name of this project is PostgreSQL and we should be
> using the official name.

As an effort at compromise, what about just calling it PWN henceforth?  This
would be in keeping with the current corporate trend of eliminating names in
favour of initials.  It has the added bonus that nobody can tell what the
"P" stands for, and we can cut yet another of these discussions off at the
knees before it drives us all around the bend.

Best,
Andrew "Or Fred.  He could call it Fred" Sullivan


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 13:01:19 -0400
Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote:

> Josh Berkus wrote:
> 
> > PWN is going on www.postgresql.org and being distributed through  
> > pgsql-announce.  If it was on David's blog, we wouldn't care what
> > he called it.
> 
> Hmm, so we rule on the name of things published in pgsql-announce too?
> Awesome.

I think it is an "AND" not an "OR" condition Josh is talking about.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake 


-- 
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate




Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Andrew Sullivan
Date:
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 09:42:52AM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Lot's of people (most probably) say, "I want a coke". Coca-Cola says,
> "Coca-Cola" on their product (which is what we are dealing with
> here), 100% of the time.

Yes, they're totally consistent about it.  Like at this site:

http://www.mycoke.com/

If some aliases are blessed, presumably there are going to have to be rules
about what extent they are blessed.  (I'm too lazy to dig through to find
it, but I seem to recall pointing out this exact future rathole when we last
had discussions on -general about what to name the project.  But now that
we're well down in where the rats live, I'm having a hard time being
convinced that consistency is something to be enforced.)

A



Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Josh Berkus
Date:
Andrew,

> As an effort at compromise, what about just calling it PWN henceforth?  This
> would be in keeping with the current corporate trend of eliminating names in
> favour of initials.  It has the added bonus that nobody can tell what the
> "P" stands for, and we can cut yet another of these discussions off at the
> knees before it drives us all around the bend.

Heh.  How about "GNU/Postgres Weekly News"?

--Josh


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 10:36:55 -0700
Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
> Heh.  How about "GNU/Postgres Weekly News"?

Wouldn't that be BSD/Postgres Weekly News?

Joshua D. Drake



-- 
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate




Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Marc G. Fournier"
Date:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



- --On Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:35:02 -0400 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> 
wrote:

> This opens the larger question of when the alias "Postgres" should be
> used.

An alias should be used in *informal* correspondence or discussions ... that's 
why its an *alias*, not the *official* name ...

- -- 
Marc G. Fournier        Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A. (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org                              MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (FreeBSD)

iEYEARECAAYFAkf71esACgkQ4QvfyHIvDvN2fgCgtyNVZ76Sx/FQU7FmR9RP/T7i
9n4AnRrvl83WwLY9A0ZrW6cWRmEIgMTk
=F7Gl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Marc G. Fournier"
Date:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



- --On Tuesday, April 08, 2008 09:41:21 -0700 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> 
wrote:

> Alvaro,
>
>> It is offensive to me that people is now disregarding the fact that
>> Postgres is an official alias.
>>
>
> An alias (or nickname) doesn't get used for the title of pages on
> www.postgresql.org, or in the docs.  That's really the difference between an
> alias and an official name.
>
> Of course, this may not be that consequetial since everyone seems to refer to
> Postgre(SQL) Weekly News as "PWN".  I know that, despite reading it most
> weeks for the last 6 months, this is the first time I noticed.
>
> So, thinking about this further, I think this should be up to the web team on
> the amount of naming consistency they want to enforce -- WWW committers can
> always change the page title after David posts it..  I don't really think
> it's a core decision, and how's core going to give David "orders" anyway?
> What do we do if he doesn't follow them?  Put him on KP detail?

Well, consider DAvid himself has stated "if core tells me to, I will change it" 
publicly, sounds to me like alot of egg on his face if he didn't follow such 
...

I wonder how hard it would be to add a filter to pgsql-announce to do:

s/postgres /PostgreSQL/gi  :)


- -- 
Marc G. Fournier        Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A. (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org                              MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (FreeBSD)

iEYEARECAAYFAkf71ooACgkQ4QvfyHIvDvOGxACeMHxyeQT8sjsl68HLDEbJ1Hcj
KmoAnAxqndDnJ4ge+roCNZg2hbOvq02B
=emoJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Dave Page"
Date:
This isn't about pgsql-announce, it's about www.postgresql.org which
should be held to much higher standards imnsho.


On 4/8/08, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
>
> - --On Tuesday, April 08, 2008 09:41:21 -0700 Josh Berkus
> <josh@agliodbs.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Alvaro,
> >
> >> It is offensive to me that people is now disregarding the fact that
> >> Postgres is an official alias.
> >>
> >
> > An alias (or nickname) doesn't get used for the title of pages on
> > www.postgresql.org, or in the docs.  That's really the difference between
> an
> > alias and an official name.
> >
> > Of course, this may not be that consequetial since everyone seems to refer
> to
> > Postgre(SQL) Weekly News as "PWN".  I know that, despite reading it most
> > weeks for the last 6 months, this is the first time I noticed.
> >
> > So, thinking about this further, I think this should be up to the web team
> on
> > the amount of naming consistency they want to enforce -- WWW committers
> can
> > always change the page title after David posts it..  I don't really think
> > it's a core decision, and how's core going to give David "orders" anyway?
> > What do we do if he doesn't follow them?  Put him on KP detail?
>
> Well, consider DAvid himself has stated "if core tells me to, I will change
> it"
> publicly, sounds to me like alot of egg on his face if he didn't follow such
> ...
>
> I wonder how hard it would be to add a filter to pgsql-announce to do:
>
> s/postgres /PostgreSQL/gi  :)
>
>
> - --
> Marc G. Fournier        Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A. (http://www.hub.org)
> Email . scrappy@hub.org                              MSN . scrappy@hub.org
> Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (FreeBSD)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkf71ooACgkQ4QvfyHIvDvOGxACeMHxyeQT8sjsl68HLDEbJ1Hcj
> KmoAnAxqndDnJ4ge+roCNZg2hbOvq02B
> =emoJ
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-www mailing list (pgsql-www@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-www
>


-- 
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK:   http://www.enterprisedb.com


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Marc G. Fournier"
Date:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



- --On Tuesday, April 08, 2008 21:47:18 +0100 Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org>
wrote:

> This isn't about pgsql-announce, it's about www.postgresql.org which
> should be held to much higher standards imnsho.

Agreed ... and I was kidding ... *that* would set a bad precedent (modifying 
content of messages to the lists) ...

>
>
> On 4/8/08, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>>
>>
>> - --On Tuesday, April 08, 2008 09:41:21 -0700 Josh Berkus
>> <josh@agliodbs.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Alvaro,
>> >
>> >> It is offensive to me that people is now disregarding the fact that
>> >> Postgres is an official alias.
>> >>
>> >
>> > An alias (or nickname) doesn't get used for the title of pages on
>> > www.postgresql.org, or in the docs.  That's really the difference between
>> an
>> > alias and an official name.
>> >
>> > Of course, this may not be that consequetial since everyone seems to refer
>> to
>> > Postgre(SQL) Weekly News as "PWN".  I know that, despite reading it most
>> > weeks for the last 6 months, this is the first time I noticed.
>> >
>> > So, thinking about this further, I think this should be up to the web team
>> on
>> > the amount of naming consistency they want to enforce -- WWW committers
>> can
>> > always change the page title after David posts it..  I don't really think
>> > it's a core decision, and how's core going to give David "orders" anyway?
>> > What do we do if he doesn't follow them?  Put him on KP detail?
>>
>> Well, consider DAvid himself has stated "if core tells me to, I will change
>> it"
>> publicly, sounds to me like alot of egg on his face if he didn't follow such
>> ...
>>
>> I wonder how hard it would be to add a filter to pgsql-announce to do:
>>
>> s/postgres /PostgreSQL/gi  :)
>>
>>
>> - --
>> Marc G. Fournier        Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A. (http://www.hub.org)
>> Email . scrappy@hub.org                              MSN . scrappy@hub.org
>> Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (FreeBSD)
>>
>> iEYEARECAAYFAkf71ooACgkQ4QvfyHIvDvOGxACeMHxyeQT8sjsl68HLDEbJ1Hcj
>> KmoAnAxqndDnJ4ge+roCNZg2hbOvq02B
>> =emoJ
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via pgsql-www mailing list (pgsql-www@postgresql.org)
>> To make changes to your subscription:
>> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-www
>>
>
>
> --
> Dave Page
> EnterpriseDB UK:   http://www.enterprisedb.com



- -- 
Marc G. Fournier        Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A. (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org                              MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.8 (FreeBSD)

iEYEARECAAYFAkf72zQACgkQ4QvfyHIvDvNHEQCeNRuT+Uacb0utTVodtnHdTUkE
jc8An1t4ggj5wSv9BTzsvOMwSywZRrIL
=yoWb
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum
Date:
On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:42:18 +0300 Devrim GÜNDÜZ wrote:

> On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 12:30 -0400, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
>
> > Let's consider that David has been publishing the newsletter under the
> > Postgres name for six months.
>
> Actually I complained him privately a few months ago about this. David
> was using "Planet Postgres" in PWN, and David kindly changed it to
> "Planet PostgreSQL".
>
> ...and I was trying to take people's attention to this by copying PWN
> into my blog and replacing Postgres' with PostgreSQL. :)

I do almost the same with the german PWN translation:
I have a script which translates the static parts in the PWN and i
replace every occurence of "Postgres" back to "PostgreSQL".


Kind regards

--             Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum
German PostgreSQL User Group


Re: [Pgweb] r2038 - trunk/portal/tools/pwn

From
"Nikolay Samokhvalov"
Date:
On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 1:39 AM, Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum
<adsmail@wars-nicht.de> wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:42:18 +0300 Devrim GÜNDÜZ wrote:
>
>  > On Tue, 2008-04-08 at 12:30 -0400, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
>  >
>  > ...and I was trying to take people's attention to this by copying PWN
>  > into my blog and replacing Postgres' with PostgreSQL. :)
>
>  I do almost the same with the german PWN translation:
>  I have a script which translates the static parts in the PWN and i
>  replace every occurence of "Postgres" back to "PostgreSQL".

For Russian translation (http://postgresmen.ru/news/view/86), we use
"PostgreSQL" also..

--
Best regards,
Nikolay