Thread: More Red Hat information
Here is a link with more information than the press release:
http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Here is a link with more information than the press release: > > http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/ $2225 ???? Are they *kidding*??? David -- David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory David@Wheeler.net ICQ: 15726394 Yahoo!: dew7e Jabber: Theory@jabber.org
* David Wheeler <David@Wheeler.net> wrote: | > | > http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/ | | $2225 ???? Are they *kidding*??? | Too cheap for you ? try Oracle pay more - get less ;-) Sorry couldn't resist. -- Gunnar Rønning - gunnar@polygnosis.com Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/
I guess I prefer my free software free... On Monday 25 June 2001 12:19, Gunnar Rønning wrote: > * David Wheeler <David@Wheeler.net> wrote: > | > http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/ > | > | $2225 ???? Are they *kidding*??? > > Too cheap for you ? try Oracle pay more - get less ;-) > > Sorry couldn't resist.
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, webb sprague wrote: > I guess I prefer my free software free... Agreed, but alot of companies want to be able to point a finger at someone or some company when something goes awry. With RH being the first to put out PostgreSQL with an operating system that I would assume was fine tuned for best performance by those that know the OS very well and possibly even include some tools along with it, I'd think their offering would be well received in the small to medium sized business community. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ==========================================================================
Then keep using it free. And the people whose management can't fathom the idea of using a serious application without an expensive support contract to fall back on might finally be interested in PostgreSQL. I can't see this as anything but win-win... Greg > I guess I prefer my free software free... > > > > On Monday 25 June 2001 12:19, Gunnar Rønning wrote: > > * David Wheeler <David@Wheeler.net> wrote: > > | > http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/ > > | > > | $2225 ???? Are they *kidding*??? > > > > Too cheap for you ? try Oracle pay more - get less ;-) > > > > Sorry couldn't resist.
> On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, webb sprague wrote: > > > I guess I prefer my free software free... > > Agreed, but alot of companies want to be able to point a finger at > someone or some company when something goes awry. With RH being > the first to put out PostgreSQL with an operating system that I would > assume was fine tuned for best performance by those that know the > OS very well and possibly even include some tools along with it, I'd > think their offering would be well received in the small to medium > sized business community. Heck, I pay ~400/year for BSD/OS support on my home machine because when I have a complex problem, I need someone to concentrate on getting it solved, so commerical support isn't just for finger-pointing. The $400/year has been worth it for me so I suspect there are PostgreSQL users that need such support too. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, webb sprague wrote: > > > > > I guess I prefer my free software free... > > > > Agreed, but alot of companies want to be able to point a finger at > > someone or some company when something goes awry. With RH being > > the first to put out PostgreSQL with an operating system that I would > > assume was fine tuned for best performance by those that know the > > OS very well and possibly even include some tools along with it, I'd > > think their offering would be well received in the small to medium > > sized business community. > > Heck, I pay ~400/year for BSD/OS support on my home machine because when > I have a complex problem, I need someone to concentrate on getting it > solved, so commerical support isn't just for finger-pointing. > > The $400/year has been worth it for me so I suspect there are PostgreSQL > users that need such support too. I didn't mean someone to blame, I meant someone to call. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ==========================================================================
> > Heck, I pay ~400/year for BSD/OS support on my home machine because when > > I have a complex problem, I need someone to concentrate on getting it > > solved, so commerical support isn't just for finger-pointing. > > > > The $400/year has been worth it for me so I suspect there are PostgreSQL > > users that need such support too. > > I didn't mean someone to blame, I meant someone to call. Oh, yea, that too. :-) -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
* webb sprague <wsprague@o1.com> wrote: | | I guess I prefer my free software free... | Yes I do as well, but this only increases your freedom of choice. IMHO that is what free software really is about, and not the fact that you also can download it gratis. -- Gunnar Rønning - gunnar@polygnosis.com Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS, http://www.polygnosis.com/
At 8:57 -0700 2001-06-25, David Wheeler wrote: >On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote: > >> Here is a link with more information than the press release: >> >> http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/ > >$2225 ???? Are they *kidding*??? If they really deliver, i.e. you get reasonable phone+email support from people who can actually _do_something_ instead of giving you the runaround (phoned M$ tech support lately with a _real_ bug report? *), it's cheap as dirt as databases go. *: Oops, sorry, of course M$ doesn't have bugs. They might have "issues". Or "features". -- Matthias Urlichs
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Matthias Urlichs wrote: > At 8:57 -0700 2001-06-25, David Wheeler wrote: > >On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > >> Here is a link with more information than the press release: > >> > >> http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/ > > > >$2225 ???? Are they *kidding*??? > > If they really deliver, i.e. you get reasonable phone+email support > from people who can actually _do_something_ instead of giving you the > runaround (phoned M$ tech support lately with a _real_ bug report? > *), it's cheap as dirt as databases go. M$ is a good example, as their database is quite capable, and costs only a few hundred bucks (last time I looked). If RedHat DB is three times the price, IME many PHBs will go with SQL Server, instead, just because it's cheaper, and they know the Microsoft name (and FUD). David -- David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory David@Wheeler.net ICQ: 15726394 Yahoo!: dew7e Jabber: Theory@jabber.org
Hmm, M$ SQL may be a few hundered $ for a couple of user licenses but last time I looked it was at least £7000 (about $10,000?) for a 100 user license. Thats not the enterprise edition either. In my experience DB pricing structures seem to be a mystery whichever platform you look at :) MC. > At 8:57 -0700 2001-06-25, David Wheeler wrote: > >On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > >> Here is a link with more information than the press release: > >> > >> http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/ > > > >$2225 ???? Are they *kidding*??? > > If they really deliver, i.e. you get reasonable phone+email support > from people who can actually _do_something_ instead of giving you the > runaround (phoned M$ tech support lately with a _real_ bug report? > *), it's cheap as dirt as databases go. M$ is a good example, as their database is quite capable, and costs only a few hundred bucks (last time I looked). If RedHat DB is three times the price, IME many PHBs will go with SQL Server, instead, just because it's cheaper, and they know the Microsoft name (and FUD). David -- David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory David@Wheeler.net ICQ: 15726394 Yahoo!: dew7e Jabber: Theory@jabber.org ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly -- NOTICE: The information contained in this electronic mail transmission is intended by Convergys Corporation for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is privileged or otherwise confidential. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email or by telephone (collect), so that the sender's address records can be corrected.
I agree. How is a person supposed to count the number of users if the database is being used to support a public dynamic web site? Is the company supposed to buy a separate license for every unique IP address that ever hits a dynamic web page on the site? I can see licensing per server, or even per CPU, but licensing any server application per user quickly becomes ridiculous when the server is supporting any internet application. martin.chantler%convergys.com@interlock.lexmark.com on 06/26/2001 11:14:13 AM To: pgsql-general%postgresql.org@interlock.lexmark.com cc: (bcc: Wesley Sheldahl/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: [GENERAL] More Red Hat information Hmm, M$ SQL may be a few hundered $ for a couple of user licenses but last time I looked it was at least £7000 (about $10,000?) for a 100 user license. Thats not the enterprise edition either. In my experience DB pricing structures seem to be a mystery whichever platform you look at :) MC. > At 8:57 -0700 2001-06-25, David Wheeler wrote: > >On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > >> Here is a link with more information than the press release: > >> > >> http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/ > > > >$2225 ???? Are they *kidding*??? > > If they really deliver, i.e. you get reasonable phone+email support > from people who can actually _do_something_ instead of giving you the > runaround (phoned M$ tech support lately with a _real_ bug report? > *), it's cheap as dirt as databases go. M$ is a good example, as their database is quite capable, and costs only a few hundred bucks (last time I looked). If RedHat DB is three times the price, IME many PHBs will go with SQL Server, instead, just because it's cheaper, and they know the Microsoft name (and FUD). David -- David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory David@Wheeler.net ICQ: 15726394 Yahoo!: dew7e Jabber: Theory@jabber.org ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly -- NOTICE: The information contained in this electronic mail transmission is intended by Convergys Corporation for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is privileged or otherwise confidential. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply email or by telephone (collect), so that the sender's address records can be corrected. ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org)
On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 07:41:29AM -0700, David Wheeler wrote: > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, Matthias Urlichs wrote: > > > At 8:57 -0700 2001-06-25, David Wheeler wrote: > > >On Mon, 25 Jun 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > > >> Here is a link with more information than the press release: > > >> > > >> http://www.redhat.com/products/software/database/ > > > > > >$2225 ???? Are they *kidding*??? > > > > If they really deliver, i.e. you get reasonable phone+email support > > from people who can actually _do_something_ instead of giving you the > > runaround (phoned M$ tech support lately with a _real_ bug report? > > *), it's cheap as dirt as databases go. > > M$ is a good example, as their database is quite capable, and costs only a > few hundred bucks (last time I looked). If RedHat DB is three times the > price, IME many PHBs will go with SQL Server, instead, just because it's > cheaper, and they know the Microsoft name (and FUD). Try about $5000 for about 30 people. They're now doing a per cpu pricing thing, so it depends how many users and/or how many cpu's (I think for per-user licensing stops at 20 or 25, then you must switch to the per cpu licensing). Unless you were talking about Access? -- Eric G. Miller <egm2@jps.net>
> M$ is a good example, as their database is quite capable, and costs only a > few hundred bucks (last time I looked). If RedHat DB is three times the > price, IME many PHBs will go with SQL Server, instead, just because it's > cheaper, and they know the Microsoft name (and FUD). FYI: Current SQL Server 2000 Prices on Output.com $4,800 Std. Ed. (1 Processor License) $2,119 Std. Ed. (10 Device Licenses) $859 Ent. Ed. (10 Clients) Academic Version $6,100 Ent. Ed. (25 Clients) Academic Version $1,429 Std. Ed. (5 Device Licenses) $709 Std. Ed. (5 Device Licenses) Competitive/Version Upgrade $10,660 Ent. Ed. (25 Device Licenses) $19,250 Ent. Ed. (Upgrade With 1 Processor License) I have no idea what a "Device License" is but it looks like the cheapest route (excluding accedemic and upgrade versions) is $1429. That problably does not include much in the way of support, only runs on Win2K which will cost you a few hundred dollars more and if your site is of any size the 5 device limit may be a problem.
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 martin.chantler@convergys.com wrote:
> Hmm, M$ SQL may be a few hundered $ for a couple of user licenses
> but last time I looked it was at least £7000 (about $10,000?) for a 100
> user license. Thats not the enterprise edition either.
>
> In my experience DB pricing structures seem to be a mystery whichever
> platform you look at :)
Excellent point. I'd forgotten about the user license. Yet another
reminder why I'm glad I don't use SQL Server or Oracle anymore.
David
--
David Wheeler AIM: dwTheory
David@Wheeler.net ICQ: 15726394
Yahoo!: dew7e
Jabber: Theory@jabber.org
wsheldah@lexmark.com wrote: > I agree. How is a person supposed to count the number of users if the database > is being used to support a public dynamic web site? Is the company supposed to > buy a separate license for every unique IP address that ever hits a dynamic web > page on the site? I can see licensing per server, or even per CPU, but > licensing any server application per user quickly becomes ridiculous when the > server is supporting any internet application. I posted the cost of 4D licence for web connected database and 10 local clients a few days ago: about $4475 Cheers Tony Grant -- RedHat Linux on Sony Vaio C1XD/S http://www.animaproductions.com/linux2.html Macromedia UltraDev with PostgreSQL http://www.animaproductions.com/ultra.html
>
>
> Hmm, M$ SQL may be a few hundered $ for a couple of user licenses
> but last time I looked it was at least ?7000 (about $10,000?) for a 100
> user
> license. Thats not the enterprise edition either.
>
> In my experience DB pricing structures seem to be a mystery whichever
> platform you look at :)
20k per CPU. See:
http://www.computerworld.com/cwi/story/0,1199,NAV47_STO61438,00.html
for the story and:
http://www.computerworld.com/computerworld/records/images/pdf/2001_25_p7.pdf
for a comparison chart.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 11:57:55AM -0400, some SMTP stream spewed forth: > > > I agree. How is a person supposed to count the number of users if the database > is being used to support a public dynamic web site? Is the company supposed to > buy a separate license for every unique IP address that ever hits a dynamic web > page on the site? I can see licensing per server, or even per CPU, but > licensing any server application per user quickly becomes ridiculous when the > server is supporting any internet application. I believe "user" refers to simultaneous connections. I could be wrong. Look at this way: PostgreSQL: free MS SQL: not free Hm, tough one. (And, I think I could figure out a new database for less than a few grand.) ;-) gh
> > In my experience DB pricing structures seem to be a mystery whichever > > platform you look at :) > > 20k per CPU. See: Word is that the 2006 Microsoft automobiles will have similar pricing structures. You'll pay $8,000 per year for each "seat-license" that you want, and another $2,000 per year for each 10 mph above 30 that you want to be able to drive... steve
Hi, David Wheeler: > M$ is a good example, as their database is quite capable, and costs only a > few hundred bucks (last time I looked). If RedHat DB is three times the > price, IME many PHBs will go with SQL Server, instead, just because it's > cheaper, and they know the Microsoft name (and FUD). > RHDB has a price tag of zero if all you need is the database. This is not what I was talking about, though. -- Matthias Urlichs | noris network AG | http://smurf.noris.de/
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 wsheldah@lexmark.com wrote: > I agree. How is a person supposed to count the number of users if the database > is being used to support a public dynamic web site? Is the company supposed to > buy a separate license for every unique IP address that ever hits a dynamic web > page on the site? I can see licensing per server, or even per CPU, but > licensing any server application per user quickly becomes ridiculous when the > server is supporting any internet application. Don't misunderstand. Per-user licenses are for *simultaneous* connections. Usually, 100 users is enough, and can be greatly offset by proper use of caching. I'm wondering if that's why Oracle changed their pricing structure to be based on machine strength. That way, they can charge for the peak abilities of the machine the DB is running on. Since I know I like to make my DB server overly powerful for scalability, this seems like extortion. But they have a point. A machine that is more powerful can more capably serve more connections - and they want you to pay for it. Either way, it's not really a mystery. Just send the vendor a request for an estimate based on your needs - and make sure to ask for an explanation. -- +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | Shaun M. Thomas INN Database Programmer | | Phone: (309) 743-0812 Fax : (309) 743-0830 | | Email: sthomas@townnews.com AIM : trifthen | | Web : hamster.lee.net | | | | "Most of our lives are about proving something, either to | | ourselves or to someone else." | | -- Anonymous | +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+