Thread: What I would say if someone asked me about no win32
Q. Hey, I read in a bunch of places that 7.4 was going to have native
windows support, what gives?
A. We did say that we planned to have native windows support in 7.4 and
we honestly believed it would happen. Several members of our hacker
community are very close to having this done, close enough that if one
was ambitious enough you could get 7.4 to compile on windows, but we're
just not where we need to be to release the code to the public. We
didn't make the decision to drop native windows support from 7.4
lightly, in fact we actually delayed the release of 7.4 by 1 month in an
effort to get it in, however none of our core development group felt
that the windows code, in it's current state, was ready for prime time,
and given that 7.4 has so many other great features that people are
clamoring for, we had to make the difficult choice.
You have to remember that PostgreSQL is a true open source project,
we're not controlled by corporate interests and we're not driven by
buzzwords and bottom lines. If we're going to disappoint people, we'll
do it by missing a deadline, not by delivering sub-standard code;
database software is just too important to cut corners.
The other side of this is that we know we're not leaving our Windows
based friends out in the cold. You can still run PostgreSQL on windows
using Cygwin just like you always could. There are also several
companies distributing commercial Windows versions of PostgreSQL,
including DBExperts, Peer Direct, and Software Research Associates, Inc.
If you need a windows based offering, we strongly recommend you check
out these options available to you.
And one last thing; don't forget that development of native windows
support continues. Much of the work has been committed to our source
tree, and this code should be ready for 7.5 (but hey, no promises! :-)
If you're interested in helping make this happen check out our -hackers
mailing list archives and see if there is someplace you can lend a hand,
we would welcome the support.
Robert Treat
PostgreSQL Advocacy Team
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
I would tell them to prototype on the cygwin version and port to the native version when it comes out. I was counting off the days until the win32 port for 7.4 but (IMO) the developers made the right decision to delay until the next release. The cygwin version is a drag to install but should be ok for development purposes. I used to tell people to use the PeerDirect port but 7.2.1 is missing a lot of nice features (especially schemas) and that port has some issues with the WAL which (IMO) make it not very attractive in a production environment. From what I understand Bruce has resolved these issues in the official port. 7.4 has some killer features which I think are under-hyped (for example John Carmack's mantra regarding the hugely overdue Doom3 project is 'it will be ready when it's ready'. In software, that's a good motto. Merlin -----Original Message----- From: Robert Treat [mailto:xzilla@users.sourceforge.net] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 6:28 PM To: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org Subject: [pgsql-advocacy] What I would say if someone asked me about no win32 Q. Hey, I read in a bunch of places that 7.4 was going to have native windows support, what gives?
People, > Q. Hey, I read in a bunch of places that 7.4 was going to have native > windows support, what gives? My answer: A. PostgreSQL has a well-deserved reputation for "bulletproof" reliability and stability, which requires each new patch and plug-in to pass stringent community testing. The Win32 platform has proved to be more of a challenge than we anticipated in this regard, and we would rather release our Windows port late than release a version which might fail in production environments. But, Bruce, since you're head of the port, wanna comment on this? We're trying to prepare a "canned" answer for the inevitable questions. -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
I ran out of time, just like the PITR guy. Win32 takes tons of time, and working on the PostgreSQL project itself just doesn't allow enough time. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Josh Berkus wrote: > People, > > > Q. Hey, I read in a bunch of places that 7.4 was going to have native > > windows support, what gives? > > My answer: > > A. PostgreSQL has a well-deserved reputation for "bulletproof" reliability and > stability, which requires each new patch and plug-in to pass stringent > community testing. The Win32 platform has proved to be more of a challenge > than we anticipated in this regard, and we would rather release our Windows > port late than release a version which might fail in production environments. > > But, Bruce, since you're head of the port, wanna comment on this? We're > trying to prepare a "canned" answer for the inevitable questions. > > -- > Josh Berkus > Aglio Database Solutions > San Francisco > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org > -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
The real answer is that we don't have enough full-time folks to work on these complex features, and we only have one Tom Lane. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce Momjian wrote: > > I ran out of time, just like the PITR guy. Win32 takes tons of time, > and working on the PostgreSQL project itself just doesn't allow enough > time. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Josh Berkus wrote: > > People, > > > > > Q. Hey, I read in a bunch of places that 7.4 was going to have native > > > windows support, what gives? > > > > My answer: > > > > A. PostgreSQL has a well-deserved reputation for "bulletproof" reliability and > > stability, which requires each new patch and plug-in to pass stringent > > community testing. The Win32 platform has proved to be more of a challenge > > than we anticipated in this regard, and we would rather release our Windows > > port late than release a version which might fail in production environments. > > > > But, Bruce, since you're head of the port, wanna comment on this? We're > > trying to prepare a "canned" answer for the inevitable questions. > > > > -- > > Josh Berkus > > Aglio Database Solutions > > San Francisco > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org > > > > -- > Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us > pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 > + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road > + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster > -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
Sounds good. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > "As a result of the API differences between the Windows and Unix operating > systems, the changes required to *cleanly* patch the PostgreSQL source > code to compile under Windows proved to be a more daunting task then > originally expected. As a result, we were unable to bring full Win32 > support into v7.4, but will continue to work towards this goal, aiming > for integration in v7.5 .. " > > On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > > I ran out of time, just like the PITR guy. Win32 takes tons of time, > > and working on the PostgreSQL project itself just doesn't allow enough > > time. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Josh Berkus wrote: > > > People, > > > > > > > Q. Hey, I read in a bunch of places that 7.4 was going to have native > > > > windows support, what gives? > > > > > > My answer: > > > > > > A. PostgreSQL has a well-deserved reputation for "bulletproof" reliability and > > > stability, which requires each new patch and plug-in to pass stringent > > > community testing. The Win32 platform has proved to be more of a challenge > > > than we anticipated in this regard, and we would rather release our Windows > > > port late than release a version which might fail in production environments. > > > > > > But, Bruce, since you're head of the port, wanna comment on this? We're > > > trying to prepare a "canned" answer for the inevitable questions. > > > > > > -- > > > Josh Berkus > > > Aglio Database Solutions > > > San Francisco > > > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > > > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org > > > > > > > -- > > Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us > > pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 > > + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road > > + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > > TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster > > > > Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy > Systems Administrator @ hub.org > primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org > -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
"As a result of the API differences between the Windows and Unix operating systems, the changes required to *cleanly* patch the PostgreSQL source code to compile under Windows proved to be a more daunting task then originally expected. As a result, we were unable to bring full Win32 support into v7.4, but will continue to work towards this goal, aiming for integration in v7.5 .. " On Wed, 30 Jul 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > I ran out of time, just like the PITR guy. Win32 takes tons of time, > and working on the PostgreSQL project itself just doesn't allow enough > time. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Josh Berkus wrote: > > People, > > > > > Q. Hey, I read in a bunch of places that 7.4 was going to have native > > > windows support, what gives? > > > > My answer: > > > > A. PostgreSQL has a well-deserved reputation for "bulletproof" reliability and > > stability, which requires each new patch and plug-in to pass stringent > > community testing. The Win32 platform has proved to be more of a challenge > > than we anticipated in this regard, and we would rather release our Windows > > port late than release a version which might fail in production environments. > > > > But, Bruce, since you're head of the port, wanna comment on this? We're > > trying to prepare a "canned" answer for the inevitable questions. > > > > -- > > Josh Berkus > > Aglio Database Solutions > > San Francisco > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org > > > > -- > Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us > pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 > + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road > + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster > Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy Systems Administrator @ hub.org primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
Bruce Momjian wrote: > I ran out of time, just like the PITR guy. Win32 takes tons of time, > and working on the PostgreSQL project itself just doesn't allow enough > time. It is also partly my fault, as I failed on the first attempt to redo the fork+exec part for Bruce, then got a bit frustrated over things not to be discussed publicly and didn't give it much attention, finally I had a ton of other things with higher priority after that. This is not an excuse, it's life, sorry. What really bugs me about the entire Win32 port discussion is something else. One of my activities at PeerDirect was to extract out the 7.2.1 based Win32 port and contribute it as a patch. That patch went out on January 20, 2003. Applied to a 7.2.1 tree, it compiled under MS VC++ 6.0 and produced a fully running native Win32 PostgreSQL. So far for what was available in January. Now more than half a year later we have no evidence that there will be qualified and capable maintainers for any Win32 port. Some of the main developers who implement big features and do the kind of work that can break a port easily, especially one that serves a tremendeously different API, have explicitly waved off any interest in Win32 support at all. This is a dangerous combination. Bruce and I had discussed this issue briefly and he is of course right that this sort of task requires deep PostgreSQL and Win32 knowledge, both of which takes time to build up. It's the kind of task that requires Core developer help to have any chance. Where I disagree by now is the definition of "help". Just doing the hard parts is not the kind of help needed here. If we do not get people growing into this position right now, there will be a gap between when the port is once done and when others with real Win32 interest will take over the duties. Will there ever be anyone willing to take over an already broken port? And I am sure if nobody is really committed on maintaining this port, it'll be broken in a few months. At this point I (personally) would rather not have a Win32 port at all, because all it is buying us under these circumstances will be bad reputation. We have come a long way and the fact that people do not reevaluate things is the reason they still "know" that PostgreSQL is slow and instable. Adding a bad maintained Win32 port is worse than not supporting Win32 at all. The latter might be missing an important platform, the former will build up long lasting bad reputation. Jan > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Josh Berkus wrote: >> People, >> >> > Q. Hey, I read in a bunch of places that 7.4 was going to have native >> > windows support, what gives? >> >> My answer: >> >> A. PostgreSQL has a well-deserved reputation for "bulletproof" reliability and >> stability, which requires each new patch and plug-in to pass stringent >> community testing. The Win32 platform has proved to be more of a challenge >> than we anticipated in this regard, and we would rather release our Windows >> port late than release a version which might fail in production environments. >> >> But, Bruce, since you're head of the port, wanna comment on this? We're >> trying to prepare a "canned" answer for the inevitable questions. >> >> -- >> Josh Berkus >> Aglio Database Solutions >> San Francisco >> >> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- >> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org >> > -- #======================================================================# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #
-----Original Message----- From: Jan Wieck [mailto:JanWieck@Yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:54 PM To: Bruce Momjian Cc: Josh Berkus; Merlin Moncure; Robert Treat; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] What I would say if someone asked me about no win32 > It is also partly my fault, as I failed on the first attempt to redo the > fork+exec part for Bruce, then got a bit frustrated over things not to > be discussed publicly and didn't give it much attention, finally I had a > ton of other things with higher priority after that. This is not an > excuse, it's life, sorry. I have a few observations about this situation. As an outsider (i.e. never contributed anything to the project, but has lots of opinions) who has been trying to break in, I can't really comment on development or design considerations. However, I think there are significant barriers to capable developers who would like to contribute to and/or maintain the win32 port of postgres, the biggest of which is simply locating the current port (!). Here are some of the problems I see: 1. The windows faq has not been updated since November, 2002 and has no mention of the Peerdirect port (PD) or the status of the official port. 2. There was some confusion regarding the official status of Justin's cygwin packaged 'alpha' build, which came out with 7.3.1. 3. The move from VS 6.0 to mingw for the build environment will not at all be popular with windows developers (although I personally understand the decision). 4. Many windows users are not even aware of the PeerDirect port's existence. To find it on the web site you need to follow a strange path of links to the guides section to get there. Because 7.2.1 is showing its age, most people would not find it in the official ftp server. 5. Both PD 7.2.1 and Cygwin 7.3.2 (last version I've tested on win32) have some serious problems with WAL and other issues which will not give users the same experience they would have on unix system. 6. There is a certain degree of ambivalence towards the port that is evident on the hackers list. This is likely fairly discouraging to would be donators. While this is ex parte discussion or opinions of people who really may not belong on hackers, this is the only place to get useful information. Here are some solutions: 1. Make some kind of official statement about the status and direction of the port on the web page and put it on the front page. Npgsql, for example, gets it its own link. An explanation of why the 7.4 deadline was missed and the reasoning behind the move from vs 6.0 would be nice. 2. Provide a download link for the current 'official' port's source along with build instructions *or* provide cvs instructions about how to pull down the win32 branch (does one exist? Or are they part of the official source?). In short, I think if would be tinkerers and testers would have an easier time figuring out what is really going on, it could help tremendously and help ease frustration. I really have a great deal of sympathy and respect for Bruce and Jan's heroic attempts to complete the work, and hope their efforts will not be in vain! Regards, Merlin
Jan is right that we need Win32 maintainers. I want to set up a few
things to grow the group, just like Jan did when he added foreign keys:
o mailing list
o cvs branch
o web page
I haven't done it yet, because I wanted to get into beta, and have
pgindent run, so any change to the branch will cleanly merge. Now that
pgindent is done, I will start on that list shortly to grow a dedicated
group to get things moving.
I think I have made some progress because PostgreSQL now compiles on
MinGW. It is just signals and fork/exec that are left. We will have
cases of fork/exec breaking in the future due to changes in the code,
but I assume we will enough folks involved in the port at that point
that we can get them fixed quickly.
I think the marketing opportunity for Win32 is just too important. I am
no Win32 fan myself either, but we have to be on the platform to show
folks how good we are.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jan Wieck wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> > I ran out of time, just like the PITR guy. Win32 takes tons of time,
> > and working on the PostgreSQL project itself just doesn't allow enough
> > time.
>
> It is also partly my fault, as I failed on the first attempt to redo the
> fork+exec part for Bruce, then got a bit frustrated over things not to
> be discussed publicly and didn't give it much attention, finally I had a
> ton of other things with higher priority after that. This is not an
> excuse, it's life, sorry.
>
> What really bugs me about the entire Win32 port discussion is something
> else. One of my activities at PeerDirect was to extract out the 7.2.1
> based Win32 port and contribute it as a patch. That patch went out on
> January 20, 2003. Applied to a 7.2.1 tree, it compiled under MS VC++ 6.0
> and produced a fully running native Win32 PostgreSQL. So far for what
> was available in January.
>
> Now more than half a year later we have no evidence that there will be
> qualified and capable maintainers for any Win32 port. Some of the main
> developers who implement big features and do the kind of work that can
> break a port easily, especially one that serves a tremendeously
> different API, have explicitly waved off any interest in Win32 support
> at all. This is a dangerous combination.
>
> Bruce and I had discussed this issue briefly and he is of course right
> that this sort of task requires deep PostgreSQL and Win32 knowledge,
> both of which takes time to build up. It's the kind of task that
> requires Core developer help to have any chance. Where I disagree by now
> is the definition of "help". Just doing the hard parts is not the kind
> of help needed here. If we do not get people growing into this position
> right now, there will be a gap between when the port is once done and
> when others with real Win32 interest will take over the duties. Will
> there ever be anyone willing to take over an already broken port? And I
> am sure if nobody is really committed on maintaining this port, it'll be
> broken in a few months.
>
> At this point I (personally) would rather not have a Win32 port at all,
> because all it is buying us under these circumstances will be bad
> reputation. We have come a long way and the fact that people do not
> reevaluate things is the reason they still "know" that PostgreSQL is
> slow and instable. Adding a bad maintained Win32 port is worse than not
> supporting Win32 at all. The latter might be missing an important
> platform, the former will build up long lasting bad reputation.
>
>
> Jan
>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Josh Berkus wrote:
> >> People,
> >>
> >> > Q. Hey, I read in a bunch of places that 7.4 was going to have native
> >> > windows support, what gives?
> >>
> >> My answer:
> >>
> >> A. PostgreSQL has a well-deserved reputation for "bulletproof" reliability and
> >> stability, which requires each new patch and plug-in to pass stringent
> >> community testing. The Win32 platform has proved to be more of a challenge
> >> than we anticipated in this regard, and we would rather release our Windows
> >> port late than release a version which might fail in production environments.
> >>
> >> But, Bruce, since you're head of the port, wanna comment on this? We're
> >> trying to prepare a "canned" answer for the inevitable questions.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Josh Berkus
> >> Aglio Database Solutions
> >> San Francisco
> >>
> >> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> >> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> #======================================================================#
> # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
> # Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
> #================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
>
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
Folks, There's been a major backbone outage in the internet, I think due to the RPC worm. As a result, us folks hosted on the West Coast aren't getting any e-mail from the PGSQL lists. If it's urgent, please e-mail me directly. -- -Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > Jan is right that we need Win32 maintainers. I want to set up a few > things to grow the group, just like Jan did when he added foreign keys: > > o mailing list pgsql-hackers-win32? > o cvs branch did we do this for foreign keys? I thought we'd always avoided doing that ...
The AC power grid in the Northeast of the United States has failed
[Thursday, August 14, 2003].
douglas
Josh Berkus wrote:
>Folks,
>
>There's been a major backbone outage in the internet, I think due to the RPC
>worm. As a result, us folks hosted on the West Coast aren't getting any
>e-mail from the PGSQL lists.
>
>If it's urgent, please e-mail me directly.
>
>
>
The Hermit Hacker wrote: > On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > > Jan is right that we need Win32 maintainers. I want to set up a few > > things to grow the group, just like Jan did when he added foreign keys: > > > > o mailing list > > pgsql-hackers-win32? Good. > > o cvs branch > > did we do this for foreign keys? I thought we'd always avoided doing that > ... Right. I don't think we did it for foreign keys, but I think we will need it so multiple people can work and submit patches. I could just keep a separate Win32 tree here and publish the diffs against current CVS, if that is better. I can put it up on ftp, so, yea, we don't need it, and it keeps us honest about tracking win32. What it doesn't do is to allow folks to get cvs changes to a tree they have already modified. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: > The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > > > > > Jan is right that we need Win32 maintainers. I want to set up a few > > > things to grow the group, just like Jan did when he added foreign keys: > > > > > > o mailing list > > > > pgsql-hackers-win32? > > Good. Done ... I put you as owner of it, but its also listed when I go through moderated postings ... > > did we do this for foreign keys? I thought we'd always avoided doing that > > ... > > Right. I don't think we did it for foreign keys, but I think we will > need it so multiple people can work and submit patches. I could just > keep a separate Win32 tree here and publish the diffs against current > CVS, if that is better. I can put it up on ftp, so, yea, we don't need > it, and it keeps us honest about tracking win32. What it doesn't do is > to allow folks to get cvs changes to a tree they have already modified. I have no problems with us creating a branch, and it would make it easy for anyone to pull things down ... its also keeps all the histories available centrally ... Can I suggest a branch at v7.3, so that those working on the win32 have a 'stable branch' to base it off of, and then we can pull things up in v7.4 and -HEAD as they become available?
The Hermit Hacker wrote: > On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > The Hermit Hacker wrote: > > > On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Jan is right that we need Win32 maintainers. I want to set up a few > > > > things to grow the group, just like Jan did when he added foreign keys: > > > > > > > > o mailing list > > > > > > pgsql-hackers-win32? > > > > Good. > > Done ... I put you as owner of it, but its also listed when I go through > moderated postings ... > > > > did we do this for foreign keys? I thought we'd always avoided doing that > > > ... > > > > Right. I don't think we did it for foreign keys, but I think we will > > need it so multiple people can work and submit patches. I could just > > keep a separate Win32 tree here and publish the diffs against current > > CVS, if that is better. I can put it up on ftp, so, yea, we don't need > > it, and it keeps us honest about tracking win32. What it doesn't do is > > to allow folks to get cvs changes to a tree they have already modified. > > I have no problems with us creating a branch, and it would make it easy > for anyone to pull things down ... its also keeps all the histories > available centrally ... > > Can I suggest a branch at v7.3, so that those working on the win32 have a > 'stable branch' to base it off of, and then we can pull things up in v7.4 > and -HEAD as they become available? Only current CVS has my Win32 change I already made. I think it will have to be against current. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Only current CVS has my Win32 change I already made. I think it will > have to be against current. 'K, should we wait until v7.4 is branched, or does it matter? I'm up for doing it right now, since we aren't looking for massive stability of that branch, only to get the win32 port working to be merged back up into -HEAD after ...
Bruce Momjian wrote: > The Hermit Hacker wrote: >> On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Bruce Momjian wrote: >> >> > >> > Jan is right that we need Win32 maintainers. I want to set up a few >> > things to grow the group, just like Jan did when he added foreign keys: >> > >> > o mailing list >> >> pgsql-hackers-win32? > > Good. > >> > o cvs branch >> >> did we do this for foreign keys? I thought we'd always avoided doing that >> ... > > Right. I don't think we did it for foreign keys, but I think we will > need it so multiple people can work and submit patches. I could just > keep a separate Win32 tree here and publish the diffs against current > CVS, if that is better. I can put it up on ftp, so, yea, we don't need > it, and it keeps us honest about tracking win32. What it doesn't do is > to allow folks to get cvs changes to a tree they have already modified. We didn't do it for foreign keys because FK was a comparably "tiny" project, considering the amount of base code that needed to be touched (basically it's been building the deferred trigger queue and the snapshot override, from there it all took place in the ri_trigger.c). Win32 is different, and therefore has different administrative needs. Jan -- #======================================================================# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #
> I think I have made some progress because PostgreSQL now compiles on > MinGW. It is just signals and fork/exec that are left. We will have > cases of fork/exec breaking in the future due to changes in the code, > but I assume we will enough folks involved in the port at that point > that we can get them fixed quickly. > > I think the marketing opportunity for Win32 is just too important. I am > no Win32 fan myself either, but we have to be on the platform to show > folks how good we are. Well after the pain I've just been thru getting cygwin postgres to work on my machine I'm all in favour of Win32 version. I'll help compile and test and everything as well, so long as I don't have to buy MS Vis Studio. (FreeBSD won't install on my new Serial ATA machine :( ) Chris
> At this point I (personally) would rather not have a Win32 port at all, > because all it is buying us under these circumstances will be bad > reputation. We have come a long way and the fact that people do not > reevaluate things is the reason they still "know" that PostgreSQL is > slow and instable. Adding a bad maintained Win32 port is worse than not > supporting Win32 at all. The latter might be missing an important > platform, the former will build up long lasting bad reputation. Maybe we could replace Vadim (if he was core) with a core Win32 person...? Chris