Thread: Future Non-server Windows support???
I noticed that for 11.2, non-server versions of Windows are not listed as supported platforms. Is support in the process of being dropped for non-server editions of Windows when 10.7 is no longer supported (apparently years away though)? Or will such support be added to 11.2 or some later versions in the future? Thanks in advanced.
Bill Haught <wlhaught4754323@att.net> writes:
> I noticed that for 11.2, non-server versions of Windows are not listed
> as supported platforms. Is support in the process of being dropped for
> non-server editions of Windows when 10.7 is no longer supported
> (apparently years away though)? Or will such support be added to 11.2
> or some later versions in the future?
Well, there are two independent questions there: what does the source
code support, and what platforms are people distributing prebuilt
packages for.
I'm not aware of any community policy change with respect to what the
source code supports. The oldest active Windows machine I see in the
buildfarm is Windows 7 + MSVC 2013, so we can reasonably confidently say
that it still works that far back. If you are concerned about something
older, the right way to make it happen is to host a buildfarm animal [1]
on a machine running the version you care about. (We have semi-officially
given up on Windows XP, for what that's worth --- but that was a couple
years ago.)
As for prebuilt packages, that's something you'd have to discuss with
the package builders --- or else build your own packages. I do vaguely
recall hearing that EDB had decided to cut back the number of distinct
Windows versions they build packages for, but that's theirs to decide
not a community matter.
regards, tom lane
[1] https://buildfarm.postgresql.org/cgi-bin/register-form.pl
On 2/24/19 4:05 AM, Bill Haught wrote: > I noticed that for 11.2, non-server versions of Windows are not listed > as supported platforms. Is support in the process of being dropped for Did you look here?: https://www.openscg.com/bigsql/postgresql/installers.jsp/ > non-server editions of Windows when 10.7 is no longer supported > (apparently years away though)? Or will such support be added to 11.2 > or some later versions in the future? > > Thanks in advanced. > > -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@aklaver.com
On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 7:06 AM Bill Haught <wlhaught4754323@att.net> wrote:
I noticed that for 11.2, non-server versions of Windows are not listed
as supported platforms.
Listed where? The only thing I see is "Windows (Win2000 SP4 and later)", and that isn't a list and surely there are non-server versions of Windows which are later than that.
I've run 11.2 on "Windows 10 home" without apparent problem.
Cheers,
Jeff
On 2/24/19 10:38 AM, Jeff Janes wrote: > On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 7:06 AM Bill Haught <wlhaught4754323@att.net > <mailto:wlhaught4754323@att.net>> wrote: > > I noticed that for 11.2, non-server versions of Windows are not listed > as supported platforms. > > > Listed where? The only thing I see is "Windows (Win2000 SP4 and I believe the OP is referring to: https://www.postgresql.org/download/windows/ Interactive installer by EnterpriseDB ... Platform support > later)", and that isn't a list and surely there are non-server versions > of Windows which are later than that. > > https://www.postgresql.org/docs/11/supported-platforms.html > > I've run 11.2 on "Windows 10 home" without apparent problem. > > Cheers, > > Jeff -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@aklaver.com
On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 3:10 PM Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@aklaver.com> wrote:
On 2/24/19 10:38 AM, Jeff Janes wrote:
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 7:06 AM Bill Haught <wlhaught4754323@att.net
> <mailto:wlhaught4754323@att.net>> wrote:
>
> I noticed that for 11.2, non-server versions of Windows are not listed
> as supported platforms.
>
>
> Listed where? The only thing I see is "Windows (Win2000 SP4 and
I believe the OP is referring to:
https://www.postgresql.org/download/windows/
Interactive installer by EnterpriseDB
OK, thanks. I don't know how that list is maintained, but on EnterpriseDB itself, they list those two versions of Windows for one of their paid products. For the free community version, they list: "Windows x86-64: Windows 2012 R2 & R1, Windows 2016, Windows 7, 8, 10".
But, this EnterpriseDB page itself is out of date, as it lists 11.1 but not 11.2. I wouldn't think they would have desupported between 11.1 and 11.2 (and I can install 11.2 using their installer), so I think this is a bug on https://www.postgresql.org/download/windows/ and a stale page on edb.
Cheers,
Jeff
On 2/24/19 1:04 PM, Jeff Janes wrote: > On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 3:10 PM Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@aklaver.com > <mailto:adrian.klaver@aklaver.com>> wrote: > > On 2/24/19 10:38 AM, Jeff Janes wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 24, 2019 at 7:06 AM Bill Haught > <wlhaught4754323@att.net <mailto:wlhaught4754323@att.net> > > <mailto:wlhaught4754323@att.net > <mailto:wlhaught4754323@att.net>>> wrote: > > > > I noticed that for 11.2, non-server versions of Windows are > not listed > > as supported platforms. > > > > > > Listed where? The only thing I see is "Windows (Win2000 SP4 and > > I believe the OP is referring to: > > https://www.postgresql.org/download/windows/ > > Interactive installer by EnterpriseDB > > > OK, thanks. I don't know how that list is maintained, but on > EnterpriseDB itself, they list those two versions of Windows for one of > their paid products. For the free community version, they list: > "Windows x86-64: Windows 2012 R2 & R1, Windows 2016, Windows 7, 8, 10". > > https://www.enterprisedb.com/services-support/edb-supported-products-and-platforms > > But, this EnterpriseDB page itself is out of date, as it lists 11.1 but > not 11.2. I wouldn't think they would have desupported between 11.1 and > 11.2 (and I can install 11.2 using their installer), so I think this is > a bug on https://www.postgresql.org/download/windows/ and a stale page > on edb. > Well something is out of sync. Still I have to go with what is available from the Download page: https://www.postgresql.org/download/windows/ --> https://www.enterprisedb.com/downloads/postgres-postgresql-downloads --> https://www.enterprisedb.com/docs/en/11.0/PG_Inst_Guide_v11/PostgreSQL_Installation_Guide.1.04.html#pID0E0XH0HA 2 Requirements Overview 2.1 Supported Platforms PostgreSQL 11 is certified on the following platforms: 64 bit Windows: Windows 2012R2 Windows 2016 MAC OS X: OS X Server 10.12, 10.13, and 10.14 > Cheers, > > Jeff -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@aklaver.com
On 2/24/2019 12:05 PM, Bill Haught wrote: > I noticed that for 11.2, non-server versions of Windows are not listed > as supported platforms. Is support in the process of being dropped for > non-server editions of Windows when 10.7 is no longer supported > (apparently years away though)? Or will such support be added to 11.2 > or some later versions in the future? > > Thanks in advanced. > > Sorry about not responding for so long. I have my own personal problems. The main reason for any interest in PostgreSQL is that software and software support comes and goes. Finally LibreOffice not only supports PostgreSQL directly (without having to go through ADO/JDBC/ODBC) but MySQL and Firebird. It even now has a Firebird embedded database which also is probably overkill for LibreOffice users (or at the very least most of them). SQLite is strangely absent, never mind the fact that they probably should have gone with it in the first place instead of HSQLDB. I downloaded the 10.2-1 version of both EnterpriseDB and BigSQL versions but haven't gotten around to actually trying to get my rather small access format (accdb) databases in Firebird format and a backup, e.i., PostgeSQL format. I am surprised that I overlooked BigSQL's explicit support for later versions. Even if EnterpriseDB doesn't state that they support Windows 10 it could be an oversight and even if not likely to run anyway. My main concern is that Microsoft has Enterprise versions of Windows and versions for everything else which makes me wonder if at some point Windows versions for desktop use may not have features needed by some database applications or differences between the versions may be enough to necessitate slight tweaks to code and compiling additional versions.
On 3/1/19 11:11 AM, Bill Haught wrote: > On 2/24/2019 12:05 PM, Bill Haught wrote: >> I noticed that for 11.2, non-server versions of Windows are not listed >> as supported platforms. Is support in the process of being dropped >> for non-server editions of Windows when 10.7 is no longer supported >> (apparently years away though)? Or will such support be added to 11.2 >> or some later versions in the future? >> >> Thanks in advanced. >> >> > > Sorry about not responding for so long. I have my own personal problems. > > The main reason for any interest in PostgreSQL is that software and > software support comes and goes. Finally LibreOffice not only supports > PostgreSQL directly (without having to go through ADO/JDBC/ODBC) but > MySQL and Firebird. It even now has a Firebird embedded database which > also is probably overkill for LibreOffice users (or at the very least > most of them). SQLite is strangely absent, never mind the fact that > they probably should have gone with it in the first place instead of > HSQLDB. > > I downloaded the 10.2-1 version of both EnterpriseDB and BigSQL versions > but haven't gotten around to actually trying to get my rather small > access format (accdb) databases in Firebird format and a backup, e.i., > PostgeSQL format. > > I am surprised that I overlooked BigSQL's explicit support for later > versions. Even if EnterpriseDB doesn't state that they support Windows > 10 it could be an oversight and even if not likely to run anyway. Ask them: https://www.enterprisedb.com/general-inquiry-form > > My main concern is that Microsoft has Enterprise versions of Windows and > versions for everything else which makes me wonder if at some point > Windows versions for desktop use may not have features needed by some > database applications or differences between the versions may be enough > to necessitate slight tweaks to code and compiling additional versions. That happens between there desktop versions also, e.g. Home vs Premium vs Pro. They do not always talk to each other, especially when you cross numbered versions. Since Postgres is server <--> client based you might to look at changing where you run Postgres. Say a VM running a flavor of Linux. > > -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@aklaver.com
Bill Haught wrote: > My main concern is that Microsoft has Enterprise versions of Windows and > versions for everything else which makes me wonder if at some point > Windows versions for desktop use may not have features needed by some > database applications or differences between the versions may be enough > to necessitate slight tweaks to code and compiling additional versions. Speaking as a semi-ignorant, I had the impressions that all Windows versions are pretty similar under the hood (with occasional annoying behavior changes), and most of the differences are on the GUI level, while the C API is pretty much the same. Yours, Laurenz Albe -- Cybertec | https://www.cybertec-postgresql.com
On Sun, 03 Mar 2019 08:30:48 +0100, Laurenz Albe <laurenz.albe@cybertec.at> wrote: >Bill Haught wrote: >> My main concern is that Microsoft has Enterprise versions of Windows and >> versions for everything else which makes me wonder if at some point >> Windows versions for desktop use may not have features needed by some >> database applications or differences between the versions may be enough >> to necessitate slight tweaks to code and compiling additional versions. > >Speaking as a semi-ignorant, I had the impressions that all Windows versions >are pretty similar under the hood (with occasional annoying behavior changes), >and most of the differences are on the GUI level, while the C API is pretty >much the same. > >Yours, >Laurenz Albe Server versions are optimized for running background services rather than interactive programs. I don't know all the differences offhand, but I do know the servers use different algorithms (not just settings) for scheduling, memory management, and file caching. It isn't possible to tweak a Windows desktop into a server with just settings - the server actually is running (at least some) different code. George
On Sun, Mar 03, 2019 at 08:30:48AM +0100, Laurenz Albe wrote: > Speaking as a semi-ignorant, I had the impressions that all Windows versions > are pretty similar under the hood (with occasional annoying behavior changes), > and most of the differences are on the GUI level, while the C API is pretty > much the same. There are multiple ways to build Postgres code on Windows: MSVC, Cygwin, MinGW. I cannot speak much for the MSI and packaging stuff delivered by companies which are active in the community and others, but for what it's worth the Windows port is still supported in the core code, and we have folks interested in it (just committed a patch to fix a rather old problem with MSVC port 30 minutes ago). -- Michael
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On 3/3/2019 7:30 AM, Laurenz Albe wrote: > Bill Haught wrote: >> My main concern is that Microsoft has Enterprise versions of Windows and >> versions for everything else which makes me wonder if at some point >> Windows versions for desktop use may not have features needed by some >> database applications or differences between the versions may be enough >> to necessitate slight tweaks to code and compiling additional versions. > > Speaking as a semi-ignorant, I had the impressions that all Windows versions > are pretty similar under the hood (with occasional annoying behavior changes), > and most of the differences are on the GUI level, while the C API is pretty > much the same. > > Yours, > Laurenz Albe > For some reason my previous message went to one member and not the group. I keep getting Wrigley's gum treatment, two of each. I assume you mean from the perspectives of administrators and "end-lusers" (as many in the GPL / Open Source world would say)? "...most Windows 95 applications still run fine in Windows 10 - that's 20 years of binary compatibility" See Major Linux Problems on the Desktop, 2018 edition by Artem S. Tashkinov https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html And yes there are critical differences between Windows Versions. It use to be that you could not put Home on a domain. Even if you have Pro versions you probably still need a Server or Enterprise version to do so. I suspect using the usual peer-to-peer networking to big one of many major sources of hassles (with lack of a package manager and a package format that requires the information needed to clean uninstall or just create a new sets of ini and registry files and boot menu entries being numero uno, ¿entiende?). Home version does not have Group Policy. You cannot set (Enable) "No auto-restart with logged on users for scheduled automatic updates installations" under %SystemRoot%\System32\mmc.exe %SystemRoot%\System32\gpedit.msc > Local Computer Policy\Computer Configuration\Administrative Templates\Windows Components\Windows Update I am betting the Enterprise version is very different under the hood and optimized for very heavy multitasking, disk access and whatever else is needed in that environment. Micro$oft has a habit of putting in features and then taking them away, hence my concern. If only Darling got half the support Wine does, they'd probably have something functional, unlike the quarter-baked Wine. I really wish Linux or Linux plus Darling was a real alternative to Winblows.
Bill Haught schrieb am 07.03.2019 um 20:41: > "...most Windows 95 applications still run fine in Windows 10 - > that's 20 years of binary compatibility" See Major Linux Problems on > the Desktop, 2018 edition by Artem S. Tashkinov > https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html > > I really wish Linux or Linux plus Darling was a real alternative to > Winblows. On the server, Linux definitely *is* a real alternative to Windows My 0.02€ Thomas
On 3/7/2019 8:29 PM, Thomas Kellerer wrote: > Bill Haught schrieb am 07.03.2019 um 20:41: >> "...most Windows 95 applications still run fine in Windows 10 - >> that's 20 years of binary compatibility" See Major Linux Problems on >> the Desktop, 2018 edition by Artem S. Tashkinov >> https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html >> >> >> I really wish Linux or Linux plus Darling was a real alternative to >> Winblows. > > On the server, Linux definitely *is* a real alternative to Windows > > > My 0.02€ > > Thomas > > > > In the case of servers, I thought it was the other way around. Last I heard they were neck-and-neck after Linux being overwhelmingly in the lead for at least something like the first decade of the (at least "public") Internet. Like why would anyone choose Winbloz *if* you don't *have* too, I have no idea.
On 3/7/19 12:58 PM, Bill Haught wrote: > On 3/7/2019 8:29 PM, Thomas Kellerer wrote: >> Bill Haught schrieb am 07.03.2019 um 20:41: >>> "...most Windows 95 applications still run fine in Windows 10 - >>> that's 20 years of binary compatibility" See Major Linux Problems on >>> the Desktop, 2018 edition by Artem S. Tashkinov >>> https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html >>> >>> >>> I really wish Linux or Linux plus Darling was a real alternative to >>> Winblows. >> >> On the server, Linux definitely *is* a real alternative to Windows >> >> >> My 0.02€ >> >> Thomas >> >> >> >> > > In the case of servers, I thought it was the other way around. Last I > heard they were neck-and-neck after Linux being overwhelmingly in the > lead for at least something like the first decade of the (at least > "public") Internet. See: https://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-now-dominates-azure/ > > Like why would anyone choose Winbloz *if* you don't *have* too, I have > no idea. > > > -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@aklaver.com
On 3/7/19 2:58 PM, Bill Haught wrote: [snip] > > Like why would anyone choose Winbloz *if* you don't *have* too, I have no > idea. 1999 wants it's insult back. -- Angular momentum makes the world go 'round.