Thread: List Message Footer
Hi All: I was wondering if it would be possible to add the Message-ID that is displayed in the header of messages on the web interface to the footer that is attached to each message that's delivered via email? It would be very handy to have a link to be able to give to someone for a specific message if you only interact with the lists via email. David I.e. add something like this: Message-ID: http://archives.postgresql.org/message-id/Pine.LNX.4.64.0903172219120.2728@calypso.view.net.au to this: -- Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
David Blewett wrote: > Hi All: > > I was wondering if it would be possible to add the Message-ID that is > displayed in the header of messages on the web interface to the footer > that is attached to each message that's delivered via email? It would > be very handy to have a link to be able to give to someone for a > specific message if you only interact with the lists via email. The Message-Id is already in the headers of the message ... you just have to expand them, because normally it's not displayed by your email program. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote: > The Message-Id is already in the headers of the message ... you just > have to expand them, because normally it's not displayed by your email > program. I know I'll get a groan for this, but GMail doesn't actually display them in the web interface. Even if you click Show Details, it only has From, To, CC, Date and Subject. I see you recently added the ability to paste that ID into the search box to pull up specific messages, but wouldn't be easier to have the direct link to share in IRC/IM whatever? David
Alvaro Herrera wrote: > David Blewett wrote: >> Hi All: >> >> I was wondering if it would be possible to add the Message-ID that is >> displayed in the header of messages on the web interface to the footer >> that is attached to each message that's delivered via email? It would >> be very handy to have a link to be able to give to someone for a >> specific message if you only interact with the lists via email. > > The Message-Id is already in the headers of the message ... you just > have to expand them, because normally it's not displayed by your email > program. > Thats correct but it would be nice to not only have the link to the overall web interface there but also the complete link to the message in the archive. E.g, what is there: List-Archive: <http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www> and Message-ID: <20090317132048.GC4202@alvh.no-ip.org> but you have a hard time finding the actual post you are reading in your mail client in the web archive for reference. I'm not sure however if there is a pre defined Header field for this or if it would be wise/allowed to give the full URL in the List-Archive header. Regards Tino
David Blewett wrote: > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Alvaro Herrera > <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote: > > The Message-Id is already in the headers of the message ... you just > > have to expand them, because normally it's not displayed by your email > > program. > > I know I'll get a groan for this, but GMail doesn't actually display > them in the web interface. Even if you click Show Details, it only has > From, To, CC, Date and Subject. I see you recently added the ability > to paste that ID into the search box to pull up specific messages, but > wouldn't be easier to have the direct link to share in IRC/IM > whatever? Groan! ;-) OK, with that out of the way, when reading a Gmail email, on the far right of the email message box you will see a down-arrow, right next to "Reply" and far right of "show details". Click on that, and choose "Show original". You will then see the Message-ID: Message-ID: <00163630ee1de4a8a404654ebf76@google.com> -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
David Blewett wrote: > On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Alvaro Herrera > <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote: > > The Message-Id is already in the headers of the message ... you just > > have to expand them, because normally it's not displayed by your email > > program. > > I know I'll get a groan for this, but GMail doesn't actually display > them in the web interface. Even if you click Show Details, it only has > From, To, CC, Date and Subject. I see you recently added the ability > to paste that ID into the search box to pull up specific messages, but > wouldn't be easier to have the direct link to share in IRC/IM > whatever? Well, there are several problems with this, one of which is that it won't work except for email delivered by majordomo. So if you're on CC for an email, it won't have the footer. The second problem is that I don't think we can tweak Majordomo easily to include it :-) Besides, it falls on Marc Fournier's court and I don't have access to that. Good luck convincing Marc to do this. As for Gmail, it is very inconvenient but it is there -- you need to click on "show original". Maybe if enough people asked Google to implement display of Message-Id ... -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote: > Groan! ;-) Heh, I'll go back to my hole now. David
On Tue, 2009-03-17 at 09:20 -0400, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > David Blewett wrote: > > Hi All: > > > > I was wondering if it would be possible to add the Message-ID that is > > displayed in the header of messages on the web interface to the footer > > that is attached to each message that's delivered via email? It would > > be very handy to have a link to be able to give to someone for a > > specific message if you only interact with the lists via email. > > The Message-Id is already in the headers of the message ... you just > have to expand them, because normally it's not displayed by your email > program. Yes but that isn't handy, which was a requirement of the problem he was trying to solve. I think having a link at the bottom of the email that could automatically take you to the specific thread at archives is a marvelous idea. Joshua D. Drake > > -- > Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ > The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. > -- PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Yes but that isn't handy, which was a requirement of the problem he was > trying to solve. I think having a link at the bottom of the email that > could automatically take you to the specific thread at archives is a > marvelous idea. I suggest somebody talk to the Mj2 developers about this. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
On Tue, 2009-03-17 at 11:49 -0400, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > > Yes but that isn't handy, which was a requirement of the problem he was > > trying to solve. I think having a link at the bottom of the email that > > could automatically take you to the specific thread at archives is a > > marvelous idea. > > I suggest somebody talk to the Mj2 developers about this. :P Joshua D. Drake > -- PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
Alvaro Herrera wrote: > David Blewett wrote: >> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Alvaro Herrera >> <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote: >>> The Message-Id is already in the headers of the message ... you just >>> have to expand them, because normally it's not displayed by your email >>> program. >> I know I'll get a groan for this, but GMail doesn't actually display >> them in the web interface. Even if you click Show Details, it only has >> From, To, CC, Date and Subject. I see you recently added the ability >> to paste that ID into the search box to pull up specific messages, but >> wouldn't be easier to have the direct link to share in IRC/IM >> whatever? > > Well, there are several problems with this, one of which is that it > won't work except for email delivered by majordomo. So if you're on CC > for an email, it won't have the footer. > > The second problem is that I don't think we can tweak Majordomo easily > to include it :-) Besides, it falls on Marc Fournier's court and I > don't have access to that. Good luck convincing Marc to do this. > > As for Gmail, it is very inconvenient but it is there -- you need to > click on "show original". > > Maybe if enough people asked Google to implement display of Message-Id ... I'm sure someone who speaks the language could whack up something in greasemonkey for example to make it more readily available. It was pretty simple to do it as an addon to thunderbird (http://blog.hagander.net/archives/130-A-Thunderbird-extension-for-the-archives.html) That would work regardless of if you get the mail from majordomo or as a direct CC. Putting it in the footer will also leave us with mails with a lot of different links in them in the end, from people who respond without cutting (with a mua that doesn't recognize the signature) the end of the mail. //Magnus
Have to see with this email, but should be done now ... let's see how this one comes through though ... On Tue, 17 Mar 2009, David Blewett wrote: > Hi All: > > I was wondering if it would be possible to add the Message-ID that is > displayed in the header of messages on the web interface to the footer > that is attached to each message that's delivered via email? It would > be very handy to have a link to be able to give to someone for a > specific message if you only interact with the lists via email. > > David > > I.e. add something like this: > Message-ID: http://archives.postgresql.org/message-id/Pine.LNX.4.64.0903172219120.2728@calypso.view.net.au > > to this: > -- > Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) > To make changes to your subscription: > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general > > -- > Sent via pgsql-www mailing list (pgsql-www@postgresql.org) > To make changes to your subscription: > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-www > ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > Have to see with this email, but should be done now ... let's see how > this one comes through though ... BTW if you really want to do this, please apply the patch I posted to the Mj2-dev list. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
following the rest of the thread, I got the feel that nobody really likes the idea ... especially since the information is already part of the message headers ... On Tue, 17 Mar 2009, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> >> Have to see with this email, but should be done now ... let's see how >> this one comes through though ... > > BTW if you really want to do this, please apply the patch I posted to > the Mj2-dev list. > > -- > Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ > The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. > ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > following the rest of the thread, I got the feel that nobody really likes > the idea ... especially since the information is already part of the > message headers ... Well, Tom doesn't like it, Magnus doesn't either, I don't like it ... but the unwashed masses? I'm not so sure. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> >> following the rest of the thread, I got the feel that nobody really likes >> the idea ... especially since the information is already part of the >> message headers ... > > Well, Tom doesn't like it, Magnus doesn't either, I don't like it ... > but the unwashed masses? I'm not so sure. I'm flexible on it ... not sure what it gains since the information is already present ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
On Tue, 2009-03-17 at 21:35 -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Tue, 17 Mar 2009, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > > Marc G. Fournier wrote: > >> > >> following the rest of the thread, I got the feel that nobody really likes > >> the idea ... especially since the information is already part of the > >> message headers ... > > > > Well, Tom doesn't like it, Magnus doesn't either, I don't like it ... > > but the unwashed masses? I'm not so sure. > > I'm flexible on it ... not sure what it gains since the information is > already present ... The information isn't already present. That is the problem. Please do not be fooled by the ridiculous suggestion that people should, "view source" or "expand all headers". We started down this path of hacking together our infrastructure based on msgids in the first place. Let's at least make it easy for people. (commit fest pages, searching for msgid via the archive search box etc). The msgid has basically become the community PRIMARY KEY :P Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > > following the rest of the thread, I got the feel that nobody really likes > > the idea ... especially since the information is already part of the > > message headers ... > > Well, Tom doesn't like it, Magnus doesn't either, I don't like it ... > but the unwashed masses? I'm not so sure. I don't like it either. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Alvaro Herrera wrote: >> Marc G. Fournier wrote: >>> >>> following the rest of the thread, I got the feel that nobody really likes >>> the idea ... especially since the information is already part of the >>> message headers ... >> >> Well, Tom doesn't like it, Magnus doesn't either, I don't like it ... >> but the unwashed masses? I'm not so sure. > > I don't like it either. But, the question is: why? and not just to you, but Tom/Magnus/Alvarre ... I'm not advocating for, I'm just curious why ppl are against ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Tue, 17 Mar 2009, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > Alvaro Herrera wrote: > >> Marc G. Fournier wrote: > >>> > >>> following the rest of the thread, I got the feel that nobody really likes > >>> the idea ... especially since the information is already part of the > >>> message headers ... > >> > >> Well, Tom doesn't like it, Magnus doesn't either, I don't like it ... > >> but the unwashed masses? I'm not so sure. > > > > I don't like it either. > > But, the question is: why? and not just to you, but Tom/Magnus/Alvarre > ... I'm not advocating for, I'm just curious why ppl are against ... Yea, I should have stated that. I think the footer is full enough and I just don't see enough demand for URL lookups to warrant it. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
On Tue, 17 Mar 2009, Bruce Momjian wrote: > I think the footer is full enough and I just don't see enough demand for > URL lookups to warrant it. You could make an argument that anything that makes the whole mailing list/Commitfest interface easier is worthwhile to implement even if there isn't much demand outside of that context. In addition to that, I know I regularly come across messages in the archives via web searching that lead me to list aggregators like MarkMail, and since the message ID can't always be found at those it's painful to then track that back to where they were in the archives in order to get a permanent URL. This proposal won't fix that for the old messages already over there, but those will decrease in proportion moving forward. Probably increase visibility to using the archives too. As for making the footer longer, you might compress the existing bits like this: -- Make changes to your psql-www@postgresql.org subscription at: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-www In order to make space for a new line in there. -- * Greg Smith gsmith@gregsmith.com http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
> > I think the footer is full enough and I just don't see enough demand for > > URL lookups to warrant it. > > You could make an argument that anything that makes the whole mailing > list/Commitfest interface easier is worthwhile to implement even if there > isn't much demand outside of that context. > > In addition to that, I know I regularly come across messages in the > archives via web searching that lead me to list aggregators like MarkMail, > and since the message ID can't always be found at those it's painful to > then track that back to where they were in the archives in order to get a > permanent URL. This proposal won't fix that for the old messages already > over there, but those will decrease in proportion moving forward. > Probably increase visibility to using the archives too. +1. -- Tatsuo Ishii SRA OSS, Inc. Japan
Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> writes:
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>> But, the question is: why? and not just to you, but Tom/Magnus/Alvarre
>> ... I'm not advocating for, I'm just curious why ppl are against ...
> Yea, I should have stated that. I think the footer is full enough and I
> just don't see enough demand for URL lookups to warrant it.
Same here. The information is already provided; we don't need to
duplicate it in the footer. I'm not impressed by the argument that
some folks' mail programs won't dig it out of the headers --- I think
it's about as likely that they won't dig a URL out of a standard footer
either.
regards, tom lane
Tom Lane wrote: > Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> writes: > > Marc G. Fournier wrote: > >> But, the question is: why? and not just to you, but Tom/Magnus/Alvarre > >> ... I'm not advocating for, I'm just curious why ppl are against ... > > > Yea, I should have stated that. I think the footer is full enough and I > > just don't see enough demand for URL lookups to warrant it. > > Same here. The information is already provided; we don't need to > duplicate it in the footer. I'm not impressed by the argument that > some folks' mail programs won't dig it out of the headers --- I think > it's about as likely that they won't dig a URL out of a standard footer > either. The obvious difference is that headers are normally hidden as uninteresting metadata, whereas footers are shown as normal body text. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> writes:
> Tom Lane wrote:
>> I'm not impressed by the argument that
>> some folks' mail programs won't dig it out of the headers --- I think
>> it's about as likely that they won't dig a URL out of a standard footer
>> either.
> The obvious difference is that headers are normally hidden as
> uninteresting metadata, whereas footers are shown as normal body text.
Programs that know what a footer is might well not do that.
regards, tom lane
On Tue, 2009-03-17 at 23:54 -0400, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > Same here. The information is already provided; we don't need to > > duplicate it in the footer. I'm not impressed by the argument that > > some folks' mail programs won't dig it out of the headers --- I think > > it's about as likely that they won't dig a URL out of a standard footer > > either. > > The obvious difference is that headers are normally hidden as > uninteresting metadata, whereas footers are shown as normal body text. Right. Which makes it immediately available and immediately usable. Message headers are not usable in any form right now. Right now they are "just a key". I am proposing making that key useful. We already have the infrastructure from the commit fest pages to the archives. By having it in the body of the message removes a step in reviewing complete threads. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
On Wed, 2009-03-18 at 00:03 -0400, Tom Lane wrote: > Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> writes: > > Tom Lane wrote: > >> I'm not impressed by the argument that > >> some folks' mail programs won't dig it out of the headers --- I think > >> it's about as likely that they won't dig a URL out of a standard footer > >> either. > > > The obvious difference is that headers are normally hidden as > > uninteresting metadata, whereas footers are shown as normal body text. > > Programs that know what a footer is might well not do that. What? I think what you are saying is that programs that know what a footer that you could turn it off? If that is what you mean, I would suggest that you are the minority. Further if you do turn off headers, why do you care? Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
Greg Smith a écrit : > On Tue, 17 Mar 2009, Bruce Momjian wrote: > >> I think the footer is full enough and I just don't see enough demand >> for URL lookups to warrant it. > > You could make an argument that anything that makes the whole mailing > list/Commitfest interface easier is worthwhile to implement even if > there isn't much demand outside of that context. Well, I think there is. On the IRC channel, I often reference emails from the archives (and I'm not the only one, of course) and it's really a pain currently to dig into my GMail box, find the right email then search in the archives (the search by message id thing added by Alvaro recently is a nice thing but it's still far too many clicks). And as Greg mentioned it, it's exactly the same problem for mailing list archives out there (they are far better referenced than our archives are). As for developing GreaseMonkey scripts, I don't see the point of developing one script per website (and one extension per MUA). Moreover, GreaseMonkey doesn't invent information, it just manipulates DOM. I may be wrong but I didn't find the message id in GMail DOM (that said, it might be here, I didn't spend too much time on it). The archives are really the heart of PostgreSQL development and having the URL of a message at the bottom of it would be a time saving enhancement. I personnaly prefer spending my time answering questions than digging into the archives for the one email in a thread I wanted to point out. I'm not sure it's a good idea for every list but at least on -hackers and -performance (which are the lists cited the most), it could save quite a lot of time to more people than you think. Note that on these very lists, there are really few people not cutting out the footer when answering. -- Guillaume
On Wednesday 18 March 2009 01:33:39 Marc G. Fournier wrote: > Have to see with this email, but should be done now ... let's see how this > one comes through though ... The correct separator for a footer is <dash><dash><space><newline>. Whatever you do, please put that back the way it was. I'm opposed to longer footers as well, FWIW. > > On Tue, 17 Mar 2009, David Blewett wrote: > > Hi All: > > > > I was wondering if it would be possible to add the Message-ID that is > > displayed in the header of messages on the web interface to the footer > > that is attached to each message that's delivered via email? It would > > be very handy to have a link to be able to give to someone for a > > specific message if you only interact with the lists via email. > > > > David > > > > I.e. add something like this: > > Message-ID: > > http://archives.postgresql.org/message-id/Pine.LNX.4.64.0903172219120.272 > >8@calypso.view.net.au > > > > to this: > > -- > > Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) > > To make changes to your subscription: > > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general > > > > -- > > Sent via pgsql-www mailing list (pgsql-www@postgresql.org) > > To make changes to your subscription: > > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-www > > ---- > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) > Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org > Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 > > - > Sent via pgsql-www mailing list (pgsql-www@postgresql.org) > To make changes to your subscription: > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-www > - > Archives URL: > http://archives.postgresql.org/message-id/$MESSAGE_ID
On Wednesday 18 March 2009 12:09:09 Peter Eisentraut wrote: > On Wednesday 18 March 2009 01:33:39 Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > Have to see with this email, but should be done now ... let's see how > > this one comes through though ... > > The correct separator for a footer is <dash><dash><space><newline>. > Whatever you do, please put that back the way it was. Please fix this immediately. All the other mailing lists are also affected. Very annoying ...
On Wed, 2009-03-18 at 21:19 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > On Wednesday 18 March 2009 12:09:09 Peter Eisentraut wrote: > > On Wednesday 18 March 2009 01:33:39 Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > Have to see with this email, but should be done now ... let's see how > > > this one comes through though ... > > > > The correct separator for a footer is <dash><dash><space><newline>. > > Whatever you do, please put that back the way it was. > > Please fix this immediately. All the other mailing lists are also affected. > Very annoying ... Yes please. I note that there is a clear demand for the idea that I presented and I would like it implement. Tatsuo, Myself, Greg Smith, Tino, Guillaume have all mentioned they like the idea. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
Guillaume Smet wrote: > The archives are really the heart of PostgreSQL development and having > the URL of a message at the bottom of it would be a time saving > enhancement. I personnaly prefer spending my time answering questions > than digging into the archives for the one email in a thread I wanted to > point out. The links are already *in* the archives. Alvaro added that. It's at the bottom of the header of every message. If we want to cater for *other* archives, we need to put it in the message itself - assuming they don't show it somewhere. //Magnus
On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > Yes please. I note that there is a clear demand for the idea that I > presented and I would like it implement. What idea? I must be missing an email. I saw an email from David Blewett outlining an idea starting this thread - did you have another proprosal? -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
Tom Lane wrote:
> Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> writes:
> > Tom Lane wrote:
> >> I'm not impressed by the argument that
> >> some folks' mail programs won't dig it out of the headers --- I think
> >> it's about as likely that they won't dig a URL out of a standard footer
> >> either.
>
> > The obvious difference is that headers are normally hidden as
> > uninteresting metadata, whereas footers are shown as normal body text.
>
> Programs that know what a footer is might well not do that.
There are no such programs. Turning off footers ("signatures") is
dangerous, because the delimiters are not widespread, so hiding them
risks hiding important data. Actually what some programs do is show
them in a different, less visible color or font, for example; but I have
never seen one that hides them completely.
(I think the "tin" usenet reader used to have an option to hide
signatures. I never knew a person that turned the option on. I am also
unaware of whether tin still exists ...)
--
Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
On Wed, 2009-03-18 at 19:44 +0000, Dave Page wrote: > On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > > > Yes please. I note that there is a clear demand for the idea that I > > presented and I would like it implement. > > What idea? I must be missing an email. I saw an email from David > Blewett outlining an idea starting this thread - did you have another > proprosal? I suggested that the footer of emails coming through the lists include a link directly to the message in the archives. Since the messageid is what is used to track threads via the commit fest as well, it creates a very simple linked bit of information. It will also allow us to more easily track threads because I can click on the email and have it take me directly to the thread at archives. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Wed, 2009-03-18 at 21:19 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > > On Wednesday 18 March 2009 12:09:09 Peter Eisentraut wrote: > > > On Wednesday 18 March 2009 01:33:39 Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > > Have to see with this email, but should be done now ... let's see how > > > > this one comes through though ... > > > > > > The correct separator for a footer is <dash><dash><space><newline>. > > > Whatever you do, please put that back the way it was. > > > > Please fix this immediately. All the other mailing lists are also affected. > > Very annoying ... > > Yes please. I note that there is a clear demand for the idea that I > presented and I would like it implement. Tatsuo, Myself, Greg Smith, > Tino, Guillaume have all mentioned they like the idea. I think there is confusion here. Peter is saying the signature marker has changed, and Joshua thinks Peter is talking about the footer URL. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > On Wed, 2009-03-18 at 19:44 +0000, Dave Page wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: >> >> > Yes please. I note that there is a clear demand for the idea that I >> > presented and I would like it implement. >> >> What idea? I must be missing an email. I saw an email from David >> Blewett outlining an idea starting this thread - did you have another >> proprosal? > > I suggested that the footer of emails coming through the lists include a > link directly to the message in the archives. Since the messageid is > what is used to track threads via the commit fest as well, it creates a > very simple linked bit of information. That's exactly what David suggested originally: === I.e. add something like this: Message-ID: http://archives.postgresql.org/message-id/Pine.LNX.4.64.0903172219120.2728@calypso.view.net.au === I think it'll look ugly, but could be useful. Not that it bothers me much either way :-p -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
On Wed, 2009-03-18 at 20:56 +0000, Dave Page wrote: > === > I.e. add something like this: > Message-ID: http://archives.postgresql.org/message-id/Pine.LNX.4.64.0903172219120.2728@calypso.view.net.au > === > > I think it'll look ugly, but could be useful. Not that it bothers me > much either way :-p Oh I do agree that it will be ugly but its the useful I am after :). I think I would be more apt to just do: ID: http://archives.postgresql.org/message-id/Pine.LNX.4.64.0903172219120.2728@calypso.view.net.au It doesn't really matter that it is the message id, just that it is the link to the thread. Joshua D. Drake > > -- PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
try that On Wed, 18 Mar 2009, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > On Wednesday 18 March 2009 12:09:09 Peter Eisentraut wrote: >> On Wednesday 18 March 2009 01:33:39 Marc G. Fournier wrote: >>> Have to see with this email, but should be done now ... let's see how >>> this one comes through though ... >> >> The correct separator for a footer is <dash><dash><space><newline>. >> Whatever you do, please put that back the way it was. > > Please fix this immediately. All the other mailing lists are also affected. > Very annoying ... > > ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > try that It looks better now, but please get rid of the initial lone -. It was used to separate multiple entries when we had several footers and chose one at random, but now that all messages use the same footer, it is no longer necessary. Please also make sure you reset the setting for pgsql-hackers to default, because I changed that one individually. Thanks. > On Wed, 18 Mar 2009, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > >> On Wednesday 18 March 2009 12:09:09 Peter Eisentraut wrote: >>> On Wednesday 18 March 2009 01:33:39 Marc G. Fournier wrote: >>>> Have to see with this email, but should be done now ... let's see how >>>> this one comes through though ... >>> >>> The correct separator for a footer is <dash><dash><space><newline>. >>> Whatever you do, please put that back the way it was. >> >> Please fix this immediately. All the other mailing lists are also affected. >> Very annoying ... -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
done and done On Wed, 18 Mar 2009, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> >> try that > > It looks better now, but please get rid of the initial lone -. It was > used to separate multiple entries when we had several footers and chose > one at random, but now that all messages use the same footer, it is no > longer necessary. > > Please also make sure you reset the setting for pgsql-hackers to > default, because I changed that one individually. > > Thanks. > >> On Wed, 18 Mar 2009, Peter Eisentraut wrote: >> >>> On Wednesday 18 March 2009 12:09:09 Peter Eisentraut wrote: >>>> On Wednesday 18 March 2009 01:33:39 Marc G. Fournier wrote: >>>>> Have to see with this email, but should be done now ... let's see how >>>>> this one comes through though ... >>>> >>>> The correct separator for a footer is <dash><dash><space><newline>. >>>> Whatever you do, please put that back the way it was. >>> >>> Please fix this immediately. All the other mailing lists are also affected. >>> Very annoying ... > > > -- > Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ > The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. > ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664
On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 03:55:11PM -0400, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Tom Lane wrote:
> > Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> writes:
> > > Tom Lane wrote:
> > >> I'm not impressed by the argument that some folks' mail
> > >> programs won't dig it out of the headers --- I think it's about
> > >> as likely that they won't dig a URL out of a standard footer
> > >> either.
> >
> > > The obvious difference is that headers are normally hidden as
> > > uninteresting metadata, whereas footers are shown as normal body
> > > text.
> >
> > Programs that know what a footer is might well not do that.
>
> There are no such programs. Turning off footers ("signatures") is
> dangerous, because the delimiters are not widespread, so hiding them
> risks hiding important data. Actually what some programs do is show
> them in a different, less visible color or font, for example; but I
> have never seen one that hides them completely.
>
> (I think the "tin" usenet reader used to have an option to hide
> signatures. I never knew a person that turned the option on. I am
> also unaware of whether tin still exists ...)
Tin still exists, and is maintained as far as I know :)
Cheers,
David.
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On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Alvaro Herrera
<alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote:
> Tom Lane wrote:
>> Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> writes:
>>
>> > The obvious difference is that headers are normally hidden as
>> > uninteresting metadata, whereas footers are shown as normal body text.
>>
>> Programs that know what a footer is might well not do that.
>
> There are no such programs. Turning off footers ("signatures") is
> dangerous, because the delimiters are not widespread, so hiding them
> risks hiding important data. Actually what some programs do is show
> them in a different, less visible color or font, for example; but I have
> never seen one that hides them completely.
>
Actually, gmails hides footers (instead puts a message to expand the
footer)... is very annoying because sometimes hides usefull
information, but...
--
Atentamente,
Jaime Casanova
Soporte y capacitación de PostgreSQL
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Guayaquil - Ecuador
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