Thread: Open Sourcing pgManage
Hello, As Command Prompt is about to release it's Replication product we are open sourcing our pgManage. pgManage is similar to pgAdmin but as it is java based it is truly cross platform and should easily support most if not all of the community supported platforms. I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are people's thoughts on this? Yes it has a Java requirement but hey.... that is a lot easier than a GTK requirement to fullfill. My thought is that it could be included as pgAccess used to be. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting. +1-503-222-2783 - jd@commandprompt.com - http://www.commandprompt.com Editor-N-Chief - PostgreSQl.Org - http://www.postgresql.org
Joshua D. Drake writes: > I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are > people's thoughts on > this? I think the decision has been made that no new client applications will be included with PostgreSQL. We will provide a server and let a happy bunch of client applications and libraries develop around it. That has worked out pretty well lately, I think. -- Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net Master-of-the-Makefiles http://www.postgresql.org
Hello, If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there but doesn't that mean that psql would be separate as well? J Peter Eisentraut wrote: >Joshua D. Drake writes: > > > >> I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are >>people's thoughts on >>this? >> >> > >I think the decision has been made that no new client applications will be >included with PostgreSQL. We will provide a server and let a happy bunch >of client applications and libraries develop around it. That has worked >out pretty well lately, I think. > > > -- Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting. +1-503-222-2783 - jd@commandprompt.com - http://www.commandprompt.com Editor-N-Chief - PostgreSQl.Org - http://www.postgresql.org
On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 14:14, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Hello, > > As Command Prompt is about to release it's Replication product we are > open sourcing our > pgManage. pgManage is similar to pgAdmin but as it is java based it is > truly cross platform > and should easily support most if not all of the community supported > platforms. > I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are > people's thoughts on > this? Any client distributed with PostgreSQL should work on all of the platforms PostgreSQL does. Java can make this a bit of a stickler since Sun does not support it outside the mainstream systems.
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Hello, > > If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there > but doesn't that mean that > psql would be separate as well? "no new client applications"
Marc G. Fournier wrote: >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > > >>Hello, >> >> If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there >>but doesn't that mean that >>psql would be separate as well? >> >> > >"no new client applications" > > > > BTW, Joshua, thanks for releasing this - all my client side work is currently Java (a Tomcat webapp in fact) so I'm very interested to see the shape of your app, as I'm sure others are. cheers andrew
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
> Joshua D. Drake writes:
>> I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are
>> people's thoughts on
>> this?
> I think the decision has been made that no new client applications will be
> included with PostgreSQL.
"Donation" doesn't equal "include in the server distribution". I think it
would be great to put it up on gborg.
regards, tom lane
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Andrew Dunstan wrote: > Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > > > > > > >>Hello, > >> > >> If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there > >>but doesn't that mean that > >>psql would be separate as well? > >> > >> > > > >"no new client applications" > > > > > > > > > > BTW, Joshua, thanks for releasing this - all my client side work is > currently Java (a Tomcat webapp in fact) so I'm very interested to see > the shape of your app, as I'm sure others are. D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat? One of the limitations of pgAdmin, as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, that would be *really* cool ...
Joshua, I'd love to see it donated to the community as well! Dave On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 16:01, Tom Lane wrote: > Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes: > > Joshua D. Drake writes: > >> I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are > >> people's thoughts on > >> this? > > > I think the decision has been made that no new client applications will be > > included with PostgreSQL. > > "Donation" doesn't equal "include in the server distribution". I think it > would be great to put it up on gborg. > > regards, tom lane > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings > >
If it doesn't do jsp now, it would be a good starting point for a web version, as java lends it self well to multiple views. Dave On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 15:59, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Andrew Dunstan wrote: > > > Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > > >On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >>Hello, > > >> > > >> If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there > > >>but doesn't that mean that > > >>psql would be separate as well? > > >> > > >> > > > > > >"no new client applications" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, Joshua, thanks for releasing this - all my client side work is > > currently Java (a Tomcat webapp in fact) so I'm very interested to see > > the shape of your app, as I'm sure others are. > > D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a > JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat? One of the limitations of pgAdmin, > as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if > you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, that > would be *really* cool ... > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate > subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your > message can get through to the mailing list cleanly > >
>D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a >JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat? One of the limitations of pgAdmin, >as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if >you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, that >would be *really* cool ... > > > Hello, Well right now you can't but there is no reason why it couldn't as an applet with some work. J >---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- >TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate > subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your > message can get through to the mailing list cleanly > > -- Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting. +1-503-222-2783 - jd@commandprompt.com - http://www.commandprompt.com Editor-N-Chief - PostgreSQl.Org - http://www.postgresql.org
Josh, > Yes it has a Java requirement but hey.... that is a lot easier than a > GTK requirement to fullfill. > My thought is that it could be included as pgAccess used to be. As we discussed, PostgreSQL is blessed with three ... now 4 ... good GUI interfaces. We don't have the justification to include one of these GUIs with the source and not the others. I do think that we should consider offering the GUIs alongside the source on the FTP mirrors. Or at least having a big link on the downloads page and the users page to the GUI list. -- -Josh BerkusAglio Database SolutionsSan Francisco
Marc G. Fournier wrote: >JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat? One of the limitations of pgAdmin, >as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if >you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, that >would be *really* cool ... > > > D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a pgAdmin is designed for a good interactive experience, which isn't achievable using web technologies. SSL connection is supported, so on not-too-slow lines remote usage should be possible without security issues, or over a VPN (I'm working like this). For web access, phpPGadmin should be usable; haven't tried so far. Regards, Andreas
Andreas Pflug wrote: > Marc G. Fournier wrote: > >> JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat? One of the limitations of >> pgAdmin, >> as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if >> you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, >> that >> would be *really* cool ... >> >> >> D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a > > > > pgAdmin is designed for a good interactive experience, which isn't > achievable using web technologies. SSL connection is supported, so on > not-too-slow lines remote usage should be possible without security > issues, or over a VPN (I'm working like this). > For web access, phpPGadmin should be usable; haven't tried so far. > I don't think any of this contradicts what Marc said. And, as Joshua pointed out it could with some work be made to run as an applet, which would be very cool for, say, an ISP to provide (nothing at all required for the user to install). Don't get me wrong - pgadmin is cool - I especially recommend it to my Windows oriented clients and colleagues who hate using command lines. I think there is room for lots of GUIs, though, and having a Java admin GUI would be cool too, as would having a servlet/JSP based admin client deployable as a web archive. (BTW, have a look at the phpPgAdmin screen shots at http://phppgadmin.sourceforge.net/?page=screenshots - they are quite nice, even though I am not a PHP fan). cheers andrew
Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> writes: > I think there is room for lots of GUIs, though, and having a Java admin GUI > would be cool too, as would having a servlet/JSP based admin client deployable > as a web archive. If someone's looking for an interesting GUI project, Applix had a database frontend that was geared more for data rather than DDL. It presented a spreadsheet-like interface for arbitrary sql queries and handled dealing with arbitrary sized result sets and allowing editing of fields using primary keys etc. It was actually part of their open source release. I looked at trying to pull it out of their build system and package it up independently a while back. It was a bit of a pain. But I did manage to get it compiled and up and running against Oracle at the time. The main pain was getting the ODBC drivers set up. Getting that working smoothly with postgres and actively developed could make for a really nice DML tool. -- greg
> D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a > JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat? One of the limitations of pgAdmin, > as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely Then use phpPgAdmin... Chris
> -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Dunstan [mailto:andrew@dunslane.net] > Sent: 05 November 2003 00:53 > To: PostgreSQL-development > Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage > > > > Andreas Pflug wrote: > > pgAdmin is designed for a good interactive experience, which isn't > > achievable using web technologies. SSL connection is > supported, so on > > not-too-slow lines remote usage should be possible without security > > issues, or over a VPN (I'm working like this). > > For web access, phpPGadmin should be usable; haven't tried so far. > > > > I don't think any of this contradicts what Marc said. Maybe not, but you can easily run pgAdmin remotely over X if you have a need to run it locally on a remote server. I've done so a number of times and found it quite usable on my cheapo DSL line at home. > And, as Joshua pointed out it could with some work be made to > run as an applet, which would be very cool for, say, an ISP > to provide (nothing at all required for the user to install). Yeah, I agree X is not a solution to that. phpPgAdmin is though... > Don't get me wrong - pgadmin is cool - I especially recommend > it to my Windows oriented clients and colleagues who hate > using command lines. Why not your Linux or FreeBSD oriented colleagues? It runs just as well on those platforms. Regards, Dave.
Greg Stark wrote: >Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> writes: > > > >>I think there is room for lots of GUIs, though, and having a Java admin GUI >>would be cool too, as would having a servlet/JSP based admin client deployable >>as a web archive. >> >> > >If someone's looking for an interesting GUI project, Applix had a database >frontend that was geared more for data rather than DDL. It presented a >spreadsheet-like interface for arbitrary sql queries and handled dealing with >arbitrary sized result sets and allowing editing of fields using primary keys >etc. > > pgAdmin3 has not only the DDL browsing tool, but also a data manipulation tool, doing pretty much what you describe (spreadsheet like, in-place editing, result set size only limited by the backend). It's functionality is quite basic at the moment, enhancements in progress. There are plans for a supplementing data manipulation application suite that allows for import/transformation/... stuff. And we plan to include a scripting engine into pgAdmin3 (probably Python), for easy add-on programming. Regards, Andreas
Dave Page wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Andrew Dunstan [mailto:andrew@dunslane.net] >> >> >>Don't get me wrong - pgadmin is cool - I especially recommend >>it to my Windows oriented clients and colleagues who hate >>using command lines. >> >> > >Why not your Linux or FreeBSD oriented colleagues? It runs just as well >on those platforms. > > > "especially" != "only" :-) I have it installed on the RH9 machine I use for development, and happily show it to people there. most *nix people I come into contact with are old fossils like me who prefer scripts and command lines for doing things. I don't use an IDE (unless you count emacs as an IDE) for development, and I rarely use control-panel-like apps. BTW, pgadmin could improve its Linux coverage somewhat by a) providing RPMs for versions of RedHat before 9, or at least providing SRPMs that can be built on such platforms, and b) getting pgadmin included in the fedora package set. Anyway, CommandPrompt have apparently done something cool and they are donating it and we should all be happy, no? :-) cheers andrew
> -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Dunstan [mailto:andrew@dunslane.net] > Sent: 05 November 2003 12:48 > To: PostgreSQL-development > Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage > > > > "especially" != "only" > Very true :-) > BTW, pgadmin could improve its Linux coverage somewhat by a) > providing > RPMs for versions of RedHat before 9, Unfortunately we are somewhat limited to the boxes that our developers have available, however if anyone can help out with additional ports/distributions we would welcome them and help out in any way we can. > or at least providing > SRPMs that > can be built on such platforms, I believe they should do know - Jean-Michel, were you looking at this? > and b) getting pgadmin > included in the > fedora package set. I only heard about Fedora about 20 minutes ago! Jean-Michel, do you have any contacts that might be able to help with this? > Anyway, CommandPrompt have apparently done something cool and > they are > donating it and we should all be happy, no? :-) With my PostgreSQL hat on, yes, it's a good thing. With my pgAdmin hat, no, it's a bad thing! Regards, Dave.
Dave Page wrote: >>Anyway, CommandPrompt have apparently done something cool and >>they are >>donating it and we should all be happy, no? :-) >> >> > >With my PostgreSQL hat on, yes, it's a good thing. With my pgAdmin hat, >no, it's a bad thing! > > I'm feeling quite relaxed about that. Competition stimulates advances, and we're better anyway :-) Regards, Andreas
gsstark@mit.edu (Greg Stark) writes:
> Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> writes:
>
>> I think there is room for lots of GUIs, though, and having a Java
>> admin GUI would be cool too, as would having a servlet/JSP based
>> admin client deployable as a web archive.
>
> If someone's looking for an interesting GUI project, Applix had a
> database frontend that was geared more for data rather than DDL. It
> presented a spreadsheet-like interface for arbitrary sql queries and
> handled dealing with arbitrary sized result sets and allowing
> editing of fields using primary keys etc.
>
> It was actually part of their open source release. I looked at
> trying to pull it out of their build system and package it up
> independently a while back. It was a bit of a pain. But I did manage
> to get it compiled and up and running against Oracle at the
> time. The main pain was getting the ODBC drivers set up.
>
> Getting that working smoothly with postgres and actively developed
> could make for a really nice DML tool.
Was that a 'native' part of SHELF? Or more related to their "TM1"
product?
FYI, while Applix and VistaSource have "orphaned" it, source code for
SHELF is still available at SourceForge.
ftp://ftp.sourceforge.net/pub/sourceforge/shelf/
It was written for GTK 1.2; we're up to much newer stuff, and it's not
self-evident that it will play with newer versions. (Old versions are
presumably still available and quasi-usable...)
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Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org> writes: > Was that a 'native' part of SHELF? Or more related to their "TM1" > product? The full source was included in SHELF (if that was the source release I'm thinking of.) I think it was called axdata. > FYI, while Applix and VistaSource have "orphaned" it, source code for > SHELF is still available at SourceForge. > > ftp://ftp.sourceforge.net/pub/sourceforge/shelf/ -- greg