Thread: List of prominent users
Over the last couple of weeks I was asked repeatedly for a list of prominent users of PostgreSQL. I don't think we have that. I know all of us can throw some names around, but no one has collected these. I'm thinking something like this: http://www.mysql.com/customers/. I know that sort of list will be far less expressive than the case studies or an actual analysis of a user's needs, but it's the sort of thing people ask for at expositions and the like. So should be make a list like that? -- Peter Eisentraut http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/
On Sun, Dec 04, 2005 at 12:04:14AM +0100, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > Over the last couple of weeks I was asked repeatedly for a list of > prominent users of PostgreSQL. I don't think we have that. I know all > of us can throw some names around, but no one has collected these. I'm > thinking something like this: http://www.mysql.com/customers/. > > I know that sort of list will be far less expressive than the case > studies or an actual analysis of a user's needs, but it's the sort of > thing people ask for at expositions and the like. > > So should be make a list like that? > There used to be an outdated and ill kept list on the postgresql site somewhere. I'm not sure it is still there. It was problematic to update and keep updated. And many large companies and governments were reluctant to admit using postgresql. Retaliation by Oracle or fear of Open Source were the reasons, I believe. But that should not stop us from trying to keep on ongoing list. It should be dynamic (ideally only with inserts :). Josh and the web guys have the capability to follow this up if we make it a priority. The list should include a contact so that the entry could be verified. This might be a difficult requirement but would certainly add to the value of the list. --elein > -- > Peter Eisentraut > http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/ > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster >
On Saturday 03 December 2005 18:04, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > Over the last couple of weeks I was asked repeatedly for a list of > prominent users of PostgreSQL. I don't think we have that. I know all > of us can throw some names around, but no one has collected these. I'm > thinking something like this: http://www.mysql.com/customers/. > > I know that sort of list will be far less expressive than the case > studies or an actual analysis of a user's needs, but it's the sort of > thing people ask for at expositions and the like. > I have a couple of these lists laying around that I've wanted to put up. I actually did start to compile them for the web. This certainly isnt official or anything but if you need some inspiration... http://xzilla.postgresql.org/about/users One issue we had never settled on was just what constitutes someone using PostgreSQL? For my$ql it's easy; are they sending my$ql a check? For us it's a little more nebulous. For example, I know that MTV uses PostgreSQL, but I don't think MTV knows that, so I wouldn't include them. Or taking it a step further, every company that uses a powerbook uses postgresql (in theory) but I wouldn't base things on that either. -- Robert Treat Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
> So should be make a list like that? Some of the most prominent users we have, probably would not allow themselves to be listed. > > -- Command Prompt, Inc., Your PostgreSQL solutions company. 503-667-4564 Custom programming, 24x7 support, managed services, and hosting Open Source Authors: plPHP, pgManage, Co-Authors: plPerlNG Reliable replication, Mammoth Replicator - http://www.commandprompt.com/
> step further, every company that uses a powerbook uses postgresql (in theory) > but I wouldn't base things on that either. I would say exactly that.... If you use a recent powerbook, you use postgresql. It lends itself to the credibility argument. Apple has some pretty strong street cred and if they are willing to trust us by putting us behind the scenes... That is a huge thing. > > -- Command Prompt, Inc., Your PostgreSQL solutions company. 503-667-4564 Custom programming, 24x7 support, managed services, and hosting Open Source Authors: plPHP, pgManage, Co-Authors: plPerlNG Reliable replication, Mammoth Replicator - http://www.commandprompt.com/
Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Some of the most prominent users we have, probably would not allow > themselves to be listed. I don't see that as a problem. The word on many of them is already out, so compiling a list of them is a journalistic activity which no one can object to. -- Peter Eisentraut http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/
On Sat, 3 Dec 2005, Robert Treat wrote: > On Saturday 03 December 2005 18:04, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > > Over the last couple of weeks I was asked repeatedly for a list of > > prominent users of PostgreSQL. I don't think we have that. I know all > > of us can throw some names around, but no one has collected these. I'm > > thinking something like this: http://www.mysql.com/customers/. > > > > I know that sort of list will be far less expressive than the case > > studies or an actual analysis of a user's needs, but it's the sort of > > thing people ask for at expositions and the like. > > > I have a couple of these lists laying around that I've wanted to put up. I > actually did start to compile them for the web. This certainly isnt official > or anything but if you need some inspiration... > http://xzilla.postgresql.org/about/users Under media: CNN ABC BBC Fox News CBS NBC ITN Deutsche Welle (See recent case study of Proximity) Healthcare - CalorieKing.com (Chris KL) Telecom: Telstra Optus (First and second largest telcos in Australia) NTT Data (Japanese national carrier, largest company in Japan) e-Commerce: RedSheriff, recently purchased by AC Neilsen (http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php?id=1482975508) ERP: OpenMFG Education: University of New South Wales University of Sydney University of Western Sydney Open Source: Debian (used to manage data about the project, packages, etc) ----- I'll post more, especially those I've been actively involved in, once I get permission, finish projects for them using PostgreSQL, etc. Gavin
On Sunday 04 December 2005 05:51, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > Some of the most prominent users we have, probably would not allow
> > themselves to be listed.
>
> I don't see that as a problem. The word on many of them is already out,
> so compiling a list of them is a journalistic activity which no one can
> object to.
Certainly if it has been printed in an article that they use postgresql it
would be hard to justify not putting them on the site. Which reminds me of
one reason I was thinking to make this database driven, so that we could
store the source of the information some place, without having to publish it
on the site, where people may not care. (For example, the source might be
that someone here worked for a company or something). I guess that kind of
information is important isn't it?
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
On Sunday 04 December 2005 03:26, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > step further, every company that uses a powerbook uses postgresql (in
> > theory) but I wouldn't base things on that either.
>
> I would say exactly that.... If you use a recent powerbook, you use
> postgresql. It lends itself to the credibility argument. Apple has some
> pretty strong street cred and if they are willing to trust us by putting
> us behind the scenes... That is a huge thing.
There's one thing in "saying" it, but quite another in actually listing such
companies on the site. Take for example a company like Podshow (a new
podcasting venture); they are building everything around the dim LAMP stack
(meaning w/ my$ql, i guess because they know podcasts but dont really know
databases), but a large majority of the people in the company are doing
podcasts on some form of Apple computer. So we *could* list them as people
who use postgresql, but if you contacted the people in charge there they
would probably deny it (not realizing that it's included on thier systems).
That seems like a PR nightmare to me...
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
> > I don't see that as a problem. The word on many of them is already out, > so compiling a list of them is a journalistic activity which no one can > object to. > They can have a problem with the use of their name if the name is trademarked. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake
> > Certainly if it has been printed in an article that they use postgresql it > would be hard to justify not putting them on the site. Which reminds me of > one reason I was thinking to make this database driven, so that we could > store the source of the information some place, without having to publish it > on the site, where people may not care. (For example, the source might be > that someone here worked for a company or something). I guess that kind of > information is important isn't it? > > I would say that yes that is important. Here is my worry... I have a customer named Cisco. I quite literally can not tell you what they are using us of for. I can say they are a customer. That is all. Thus I have to be careful about how information about Cisco is put out there. Otherwise, it may become suspect that as a member of the community let it slip :( Joshua D. Drake
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Robert Treat wrote: > One issue we had never settled on was just what constitutes someone using > PostgreSQL? For my$ql it's easy; are they sending my$ql a check? Actually, I doubt that mysql is that restrictive. They will happily list any company (e.g. Google) in which someone somewhere in the company is using it, regardless of whether or not they have paid a license. Joshua D. Drake stated: > They can have a problem with the use of their name if the name is > trademarked. No, they can't. We can't create a product called "Orakle", but we can certainly talk about the company Oracle(tm) all we want. I don't see the big deal with posting such a list: if a company does not want to be on it, they can send us an email and we'd more than likely comply. - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200512041222 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFDkyYovJuQZxSWSsgRApCtAKD7ouG9P44Dl/AvX6zDE7s7TTbsggCgw/+H o52MRTikZpCWnUfvLuCDe4Y= =cmK0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > No, they can't. We can't create a product called "Orakle", but we can > certainly talk about the company Oracle(tm) all we want. I don't see > the big deal with posting such a list: if a company does not want to > be on it, they can send us an email and we'd more than likely comply. > Trade Secret. I am not saying they would. I am saying the could.
My 2 cents... It is common practice to list customers on web sites. It's
also common for companies to ask to be removed. I suggest we just put up
the list, and take people off if they ask.
Of course, if a company or agency had previously told us their
involvement was confidential, we would respect that.
We should just go with the list. There's unlikely to be any problem that
can't be rectified easily.
-- Andy
Andy Astor
EnterpriseDB Corporation
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-advocacy-
> owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Joshua D. Drake
> Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 12:30 PM
> To: Greg Sabino Mullane
> Cc: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] List of prominent users
>
> >
> > No, they can't. We can't create a product called "Orakle", but we
can
> > certainly talk about the company Oracle(tm) all we want. I don't see
> > the big deal with posting such a list: if a company does not want to
> > be on it, they can send us an email and we'd more than likely
comply.
> >
> Trade Secret.
>
> I am not saying they would. I am saying the could.
>
> ---------------------------(end of
broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ?
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
There is a user gallery on www.pgsql.com > -----Original Message----- > From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-advocacy- > owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of elein > Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 12:54 AM > To: Peter Eisentraut > Cc: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] List of prominent users > > On Sun, Dec 04, 2005 at 12:04:14AM +0100, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > > Over the last couple of weeks I was asked repeatedly for a list of > > prominent users of PostgreSQL. I don't think we have that. I know all > > of us can throw some names around, but no one has collected these. I'm > > thinking something like this: http://www.mysql.com/customers/. > > > > I know that sort of list will be far less expressive than the case > > studies or an actual analysis of a user's needs, but it's the sort of > > thing people ask for at expositions and the like. > > > > So should be make a list like that? > > > > There used to be an outdated and ill kept list on the postgresql site > somewhere. I'm not sure it is still there. > > It was problematic to update and keep updated. And many large > companies and governments were reluctant to admit using postgresql. > Retaliation by Oracle or fear of Open Source were the reasons, > I believe. > > But that should not stop us from trying to keep on ongoing list. > It should be dynamic (ideally only with inserts :). > > Josh and the web guys have the capability to follow this up > if we make it a priority. > > The list should include a contact so that the entry could be > verified. This might be a difficult requirement but would certainly > add to the value of the list. > > --elein > > > > -- > > Peter Eisentraut > > http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/ > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > > TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
On Sat, Dec 03, 2005 at 11:33:01PM -0500, Robert Treat wrote: > On Saturday 03 December 2005 18:04, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > > Over the last couple of weeks I was asked repeatedly for a list of > > prominent users of PostgreSQL. I don't think we have that. I know all > > of us can throw some names around, but no one has collected these. I'm > > thinking something like this: http://www.mysql.com/customers/. > > > > I know that sort of list will be far less expressive than the case > > studies or an actual analysis of a user's needs, but it's the sort of > > thing people ask for at expositions and the like. > > > I have a couple of these lists laying around that I've wanted to put up. I > actually did start to compile them for the web. This certainly isnt official > or anything but if you need some inspiration... > http://xzilla.postgresql.org/about/users > > One issue we had never settled on was just what constitutes someone using > PostgreSQL? For my$ql it's easy; are they sending my$ql a check? For us > it's a little more nebulous. For example, I know that MTV uses PostgreSQL, > but I don't think MTV knows that, so I wouldn't include them. Or taking it a > step further, every company that uses a powerbook uses postgresql (in theory) > but I wouldn't base things on that either. It is for this reason and the comments afterward that I had suggested a contact name responsible for avowing that the company is using postgresql. Preferably a person at that company. We also can have a verified list as well as a rumored list (waiting for verf). This discussion about who is a user and who is not and who will say are goes on and on each time the issue is brought up. That is why the old user list is old and unreliable and missing in action. Put a stake in the ground and lets get on with it. I've suggested criteria for accountability. Use that or some other better criteria, but just do it. --elein > > -- > Robert Treat > Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq >
People: > My 2 cents... It is common practice to list customers on web sites. It's > also common for companies to ask to be removed. I suggest we just put up > the list, and take people off if they ask. Given that the reason for the list is to create postive PR for us, we only want to list companies who will say good things about us if contacted. As such, only companies who are explicitly OK with being listed should be. If we use this web page to "out" postgresql users, then what those users say to reporters is unlikely to be complimentary of us or of PostgreSQL. In some cases, it may even be a cause for the companies involved for switching away from our database (don't use PostgreSQL, Jack, they'll smear your name all over the internet!) So I feel very strongly that we should only list companies who OK it. We can start with the companies who have been quoted and have case studies. I can then contact a bunch of other users I know might be OK with it. --Josh
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>
>> Certainly if it has been printed in an article that they use
>> postgresql it would be hard to justify not putting them on the site.
[...]
> I would say that yes that is important. Here is my worry... I have a
> customer named Cisco. I quite literally can not tell you what they
> are using us of for. I can say they are a customer. That is all. Thus I
> have to be careful about how information about Cisco is put out there.
And that's exactly why the "if it has been printed in an article" (and
I'd add "or on the company's own web site") criteria is a good one to use.
For Cisco, when their own web site spells out that "Cisco's Carrier-Sensitive Routing application stores all the
provisioned data associated in PostgreSQL. The database supports active dataset, inactive dataset, and
configurationdata; which include routes, rules, QOS information, and a great deal of other information."
and "Cisco's OnDemand Manager and IP/TV Program Manager use a PostgreSQL database to store information
abouton-demand programs and servers. A second database stores information about the journal records of
OnDemandsessions. "
It certainly sounds reasonable for us to quote that material and
provide links that reference the sources of those quotes.
Where they use PostgreSQL in other products that haven't been
mentioned by their own PR/Marketing departments; I think the
community certainly should respect their privacy --- after all,
the use of PostgreSQL is quite possibly an important trade secret
that's a key competitive advantage over their competitors
using some expensive database.
Sources: http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/voice/csr/usergd/ver1_1/csrover.htm
http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/voice/csr/install/csrinst.htm
http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/webscale/iptv/iptv51/pm_usrgd/chap4.htm
On Sunday 04 December 2005 21:57, Josh Berkus wrote: > People: > > My 2 cents... It is common practice to list customers on web sites. It's > > also common for companies to ask to be removed. I suggest we just put up > > the list, and take people off if they ask. > > Given that the reason for the list is to create postive PR for us, we > only want to list companies who will say good things about us if > contacted. As such, only companies who are explicitly OK with being > listed should be. Here's a thought, suppose we add a small script, as part of a postgres install, that offers to send info to the communityabout themselves and what they intend to do with it. I'm thinking something along the lines of what openoffice does.This would probably be best implemented in a distribution (Debian, Red Hat, FreeBSD etc). We could add it to the windowsinstall program. Comments?
On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 07:12:27AM -0500, Robert Bernier wrote: > On Sunday 04 December 2005 21:57, Josh Berkus wrote: > > People: > > > My 2 cents... It is common practice to list customers on web sites. It's > > > also common for companies to ask to be removed. I suggest we just put up > > > the list, and take people off if they ask. > > > > Given that the reason for the list is to create postive PR for us, we > > only want to list companies who will say good things about us if > > contacted. As such, only companies who are explicitly OK with being > > listed should be. > > Here's a thought, suppose we add a small script, as part of a postgres install, that offers to send info to the communityabout themselves and what they intend to do with it. I'm thinking something along the lines of what openoffice does.This would probably be best implemented in a distribution (Debian, Red Hat, FreeBSD etc). We could add it to the windowsinstall program. It's been brought up before. At best, it would just serve to improve the reliability of our numbers WRT how many users installed a given version of PostgreSQL. -- Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant jnasby@pervasive.com Pervasive Software http://pervasive.com work: 512-231-6117 vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461