Thread: Prestige users
We've got a raging debate going on now on whether we should move from a Foxpro back end to either PostgreSQL or MySQL. It's an accounting application and I feel that Postgres would be the better choice. Some other people (like my boss) thinks that MySQL would be better choice. His reasoning is that MySQL gets more publicity so it must be better. He says that since the Sabre airline reservation system and Yahoo run with MySQL, they are the best. Period. I'm sure Postgres has a couple prestige organizations that use database. If I could come up with some big names, I'm pretty sure we could make everyone into believers. Unfortunately, the only thing close to a "name" on the website is the company BSAF. Do you know any other well-known names? Thanks in advance. Bruce
On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 19:39, Bruce wrote: > We've got a raging debate going on now on whether we should move from a > Foxpro back end to either PostgreSQL or MySQL. > > It's an accounting application and I feel that Postgres would be the better > choice. Some other people (like my boss) thinks that MySQL would be better > choice. His reasoning is that MySQL gets more publicity so it must be > better. He says that since the Sabre airline reservation system and Yahoo > run with MySQL, they are the best. Period. > > I'm sure Postgres has a couple prestige organizations that use database. If > I could come up with some big names, I'm pretty sure we could make everyone > into believers. Unfortunately, the only thing close to a "name" on the > website is the company BSAF. > > Do you know any other well-known names? > Fujitsu, Cisco, Ford, Red Hat... there are others though not sure if your boss would have heard of them. More importantly if you are making an accounting app, you better read up on my$ql's loose implementation of data types, like inserting a 0 into field when sent a blank or bogus string. Something like that can lead to application bugs which could cost people real money down the line... I don't mean to be FUDalistic, but you are talking an accounting app, so it seems a rather important bit. More can be found at http://sql-info.de/mysql/gotchas.html Robert Treat -- Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
On 05/05/2004 00:39 Bruce wrote: > We've got a raging debate going on now on whether we should move from a > Foxpro back end to either PostgreSQL or MySQL. > > It's an accounting application and I feel that Postgres would be the > better choice. Some other people (like my boss) thinks that MySQL would > be better choice. His reasoning is that MySQL gets more publicity so it > must be better. He says that since the Sabre airline reservation system > and Yahoo run with MySQL, they are the best. Period. > > I'm sure Postgres has a couple prestige organizations that use database. > If I could come up with some big names, I'm pretty sure we could make > everyone into believers. Unfortunately, the only thing close to a "name" > on the website is the company BSAF. Show him http://sql-info.de/mysql/gotchas.html and ask him how much he values the company's accounting data. -- Paul Thomas +------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+ | Thomas Micro Systems Limited | Software Solutions for Business | | Computer Consultants | http://www.thomas-micro-systems-ltd.co.uk | +------------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
We have .org, Fujitsu, and lots of others. Basically Yahoo and others use MySQL because they need a simple db for web-based apps, and chose MySQL when PostgreSQL was not as stable years ago. If you boss thinks MySQL is better for you, go ahead and use it. I think you will be moving to PostgreSQL eventually anyway. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bruce wrote: > We've got a raging debate going on now on whether we should move from a > Foxpro back end to either PostgreSQL or MySQL. > > It's an accounting application and I feel that Postgres would be the better > choice. Some other people (like my boss) thinks that MySQL would be better > choice. His reasoning is that MySQL gets more publicity so it must be > better. He says that since the Sabre airline reservation system and Yahoo > run with MySQL, they are the best. Period. > > I'm sure Postgres has a couple prestige organizations that use database. If > I could come up with some big names, I'm pretty sure we could make everyone > into believers. Unfortunately, the only thing close to a "name" on the > website is the company BSAF. > > Do you know any other well-known names? > > Thanks in advance. > > Bruce > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html > -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
On Tue, 4 May 2004, Bruce wrote: > We've got a raging debate going on now on whether we should move from a > Foxpro back end to either PostgreSQL or MySQL. > > It's an accounting application and I feel that Postgres would be the better > choice. Some other people (like my boss) thinks that MySQL would be better > choice. His reasoning is that MySQL gets more publicity so it must be > better. He says that since the Sabre airline reservation system and Yahoo > run with MySQL, they are the best. Period. > > I'm sure Postgres has a couple prestige organizations that use database. If > I could come up with some big names, I'm pretty sure we could make everyone > into believers. Unfortunately, the only thing close to a "name" on the > website is the company BSAF. > > Do you know any other well-known names? > > Thanks in advance. Just try this simple test in MySQL and see if the boss still thinks it's suitable for accounting: mysql> create table test (i1 int, n1 numeric(8,2)); Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.00 sec) mysql> insert into test values (10000000000000,100000000000.345678); Query OK, 1 row affected (0.00 sec) mysql> select * from test; +------------+------------+ | i1 | n1 | +------------+------------+ | 2147483647 | 9999999.99 | +------------+------------+ 1 row in set (0.00 sec) Wow, inspires you with confidence, huh?
> Do you know any other well-known names? Lets start with some of the names that are sponsoring ongoing development of PostgreSQL. Affilias (runs .org) Fujitsu Red Hat Software Research Associates 1100 or so companies that use PostgreSQL: http://www.pgsql.com/user_gallery/projectsn.php?NEXT=0 Some highlights include: BBC Sur-Guard Security Communications DuPont (CSC implementation) Universities (Oxford, Cornell, McGill, Berkeley, tens of others) SSP Data Reuters 3com Xerox Los Alamos National Lab Palo Alto Research Center, Inc Not well known, but companies currently seeking for additional PostgreSQL staff via Monster.com. I like this list -- growing SMEs. VA Software EMusic.com Trymedia Systems iCrossing Computer Futures Solutions Parity Resourcing Internet Securities, Inc. Fullsix Citysearch Cavok Group, Inc ustronics.com Mindshare Solutions Software Engineering Institute mBlox Ltd Miracom Network PRO Unlimited ECI Conference Call Services
> > > Fujitsu, Cisco, Ford, Red Hat... there are others though not sure if > your boss would have heard of them. NCSA, ACS, Columbia University, USDF, Sandia Labs, VM Direct... >
On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 04:39:42PM -0700, Bruce wrote: > It's an accounting application and I feel that Postgres would be the better > choice. Some other people (like my boss) thinks that MySQL would be better > choice. His reasoning is that MySQL gets more publicity so it must be > better. He says that since the Sabre airline reservation system and Yahoo > run with MySQL, they are the best. Period. Is he pointy-haired? > I'm sure Postgres has a couple prestige organizations that use database. If > I could come up with some big names, I'm pretty sure we could make everyone > into believers. Unfortunately, the only thing close to a "name" on the > website is the company BSAF. Search archives.postgresql.org for this mail: From: "Corey W. Gibbs" <cgibbs@westmarkproducts.com> To: postgres list <pgsql-general@postgresql.org> Cc: "pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org" <pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Are we losing momentum? Answer: Heck No! Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:52:43 -0700 Good luck, -- Alvaro Herrera (<alvherre[a]dcc.uchile.cl>) www.google.com: interfaz de línea de comando para la web.
The world rejoiced as bruce@centerstage.com (Bruce) wrote: > We've got a raging debate going on now on whether we should move from > a Foxpro back end to either PostgreSQL or MySQL. > > It's an accounting application and I feel that Postgres would be the > better choice. Some other people (like my boss) thinks that MySQL > would be better choice. His reasoning is that MySQL gets more > publicity so it must be better. He says that since the Sabre airline > reservation system and Yahoo run with MySQL, they are the best. Period. I have contacts at Sabre (used to work there, back when they were a big company); they refuse to say a word about what MySQL is getting used for. Furthermore, there is NO reason to imagine that Sabre has migrated from IMS to MySQL. That would be just plain silly. Their online system, STIN, supports not merely tens of thousands but hundreds of thousands of concurrent users; it's the sort of application that _STILL_ involves the use of hand-written IBM 370 assembly code. It seems most likely that MySQL would get used for second- and third-tier applications such as in pricing applications. It surely wouldn't be a "database of record," but rather would be used to make cheap replicas used for analysis. -- (format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "acm.org") http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/postgresql.html Rules of the Evil Overlord #183. "Before using any device which transfers energy directly into my body, I will install a surge suppressor." <http://www.eviloverlord.com/>
> We've got a raging debate going on now on whether we should move from a > Foxpro back end to either PostgreSQL or MySQL. Hello, I am a windows developer with several years development experience with FoxPro. I loved foxpro (back in the day) and only moved to a real SQL server because I was sick and tired of rebuilding corrupted index files. Prestige users aside, I can give you some real concrete reasons as to why you will be happier migrating to PostgreSQL from Foxpro. The short version is that pg offers many, many features which are important for application development which are not present or incorrect/incomplete in mysql. Here is a (probably incomplete) list of why you should move to pg. 1. SQL passthrough: you can leverage your foxpro develop talent and perhaps recover some of your older code using foxpro front end app and postgres backend. (note: mysql offers the same advatanges) 2. Query optimizer: Foxpro has a world class query optimizer. IMO, Postgres is the closest thing you are going to get in an open source database. 3. Functional indexes: Many foxpro applications make heavy use of functional indexes (ex: index on upper(customers) tag upp_custname). Pg has a very similar (and standardized) way of offering the same power. 4. View support: foxpro has good support for views. In mysql, you will miss them greatly. There other things (too many to mention), but my personal experience migrating to PostgreSQL + Delphi (using the excellent ZeosLib driver) was a great success. Good luck! Merlin
Merlin Moncure wrote: >>We've got a raging debate go from a >>Foxpro back end to either PostgreSQL or MySQL. One angle I've found works on non-techie, management, owner-types is this: Postgresql is the closest thing to open source Oracle out there right now. We could, and in the deeper db trenches should, go through a feature-by-feature comparison for more specifics but in the end, the features and cost savings Postgres brings vs. MySQL, Oracle, Foxpro, etc. is just too good to be passed up. -- Best, Al Hulaton | Sr. Account Engineer | Command Prompt, Inc. 503.667.4564 | ahulaton@commandprompt.com Home of Mammoth Replicator for PostgreSQL Managed PostgreSQL, Linux services and consulting Read and Search O'Reilly's 'Practical PostgreSQL' at http://www.commandprompt.com
Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > > > > > Fujitsu, Cisco, Ford, Red Hat... there are others though not sure if > > your boss would have heard of them. > > NCSA, ACS, Columbia University, USDF, Sandia Labs, VM Direct... Oh, yes, USA Homeland Security and Immigration use it a lot. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
On Wed, 5 May 2004, scott.marlowe wrote: > On Tue, 4 May 2004, Bruce wrote: > > > We've got a raging debate going on now on whether we should move from a > > Foxpro back end to either PostgreSQL or MySQL. > > > > It's an accounting application and I feel that Postgres would be the better > > choice. Some other people (like my boss) thinks that MySQL would be better > > choice. His reasoning is that MySQL gets more publicity so it must be > > better. He says that since the Sabre airline reservation system and Yahoo > > run with MySQL, they are the best. Period. > > > > I'm sure Postgres has a couple prestige organizations that use database. If > > I could come up with some big names, I'm pretty sure we could make everyone > > into believers. Unfortunately, the only thing close to a "name" on the > > website is the company BSAF. > > > > Do you know any other well-known names? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > Just try this simple test in MySQL and see if the boss still thinks it's > suitable for accounting: > > mysql> create table test (i1 int, n1 numeric(8,2)); > Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.00 sec) > > mysql> insert into test values (10000000000000,100000000000.345678); > Query OK, 1 row affected (0.00 sec) > > mysql> select * from test; > +------------+------------+ > | i1 | n1 | > +------------+------------+ > | 2147483647 | 9999999.99 | > +------------+------------+ > 1 row in set (0.00 sec) > > > Wow, inspires you with confidence, huh? as a followup, here's some more confidence inspiring behaviour from MySQL (my version is what shipped with RH 7.2, 3.23.41. mysql> create table testg (t1 numeric(30,4)); Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.00 sec) mysql> insert into testg values (12345678901234567890.1234); Query OK, 1 row affected (0.00 sec) mysql> select * from testg; +---------------------------+ | t1 | +---------------------------+ | 12345678901234567168.0000 | +---------------------------+
On Wednesday 05 May 2004 09:48 am, scott.marlowe wrote: > Just try this simple test in MySQL and see if the boss still thinks it's > suitable for accounting: > > mysql> create table test (i1 int, n1 numeric(8,2)); > Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.00 sec) > > mysql> insert into test values (10000000000000,100000000000.345678); > Query OK, 1 row affected (0.00 sec) > > mysql> select * from test; > +------------+------------+ > > | i1 | n1 | > > +------------+------------+ > > | 2147483647 | 9999999.99 | > > +------------+------------+ > 1 row in set (0.00 sec) > > > Wow, inspires you with confidence, huh? > Just to describe what SHOULD happen in a real database: jonagard=# create table test (i1 int, n1 numeric(8,2)); CREATE TABLE jonagard=# insert into test values (10000000000000,100000000000.345678); ERROR: int8 conversion to int4 is out of range -- Jonathan Gardner jgardner@jonathangardner.net
On Wed, 5 May 2004, scott.marlowe wrote:
> Just try this simple test in MySQL and see if the boss still thinks it's
> suitable for accounting:
I'll toss in the Pg version
db => create table test (i1 int, n1 numeric(8,2));
CREATE
db=> insert into test values (10000000000000,100000000000.345678);
ERROR: dtoi4: integer out of range
Oh my gosh ... an error! Oh yeah it is an error. :-)
Rod
--
"Open Source Software - You usually get more than you pay for..."
"Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL"
> as a followup, here's some more confidence inspiring behaviour from MySQL > (my version is what shipped with RH 7.2, 3.23.41. > > mysql> create table testg (t1 numeric(30,4)); > Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.00 sec) > > mysql> insert into testg values (12345678901234567890.1234); > Query OK, 1 row affected (0.00 sec) > > mysql> select * from testg; > +---------------------------+ > | t1 | > +---------------------------+ > | 12345678901234567168.0000 | > +---------------------------+ Foxpro has a very similar philosophy in design. It will do many awful things to your data, like silently truncate your strings, etc. It's a pretty safe bet that the developers at Bruce's company are quite used to dealing with these issues in application logic code. They are probably also used to fixing busted indexes and repairing data and all the other things that come along with the direct path to the data. Mysql is actually a lot like foxpro in a lot of respects, although it lacks a lot of the programming power of foxpro. Moving to this system will not gain a whole lot by any measure except to allow easy connectivity over the internet. Postgres, OTOH, offers a world of advantages, both technical as well as the PHB type stuff. Merlin
On Wed, 2004-05-05 at 12:48, scott.marlowe wrote: > On Tue, 4 May 2004, Bruce wrote: > > > We've got a raging debate going on now on whether we should move from a > > Foxpro back end to either PostgreSQL or MySQL. > > > > It's an accounting application and I feel that Postgres would be the better > > choice. Some other people (like my boss) thinks that MySQL would be better > > choice. His reasoning is that MySQL gets more publicity so it must be > > better. He says that since the Sabre airline reservation system and Yahoo > > run with MySQL, they are the best. Period. > > > > I'm sure Postgres has a couple prestige organizations that use database. If > > I could come up with some big names, I'm pretty sure we could make everyone > > into believers. Unfortunately, the only thing close to a "name" on the > > website is the company BSAF. > > > > Do you know any other well-known names? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > Just try this simple test in MySQL and see if the boss still thinks it's > suitable for accounting: > > mysql> create table test (i1 int, n1 numeric(8,2)); > Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.00 sec) > > mysql> insert into test values (10000000000000,100000000000.345678); > Query OK, 1 row affected (0.00 sec) > > mysql> select * from test; > +------------+------------+ > | i1 | n1 | > +------------+------------+ > | 2147483647 | 9999999.99 | > +------------+------------+ > 1 row in set (0.00 sec) > > > Wow, inspires you with confidence, huh? > > I think we've found a way to market PostgreSQL!!! Wow, I don't even think Access allows this to happen. -- Jeff Self Dept. of Information Technology City of Newport News 757-926-3741
On Wed, 5 May 2004, Christopher Browne wrote: > The world rejoiced as bruce@centerstage.com (Bruce) wrote: > > We've got a raging debate going on now on whether we should move from > > a Foxpro back end to either PostgreSQL or MySQL. > > > > It's an accounting application and I feel that Postgres would be the > > better choice. Some other people (like my boss) thinks that MySQL > > would be better choice. His reasoning is that MySQL gets more > > publicity so it must be better. He says that since the Sabre airline > > reservation system and Yahoo run with MySQL, they are the best. Period. > > I have contacts at Sabre (used to work there, back when they were a > big company); they refuse to say a word about what MySQL is getting > used for. > > Furthermore, there is NO reason to imagine that Sabre has migrated > from IMS to MySQL. That would be just plain silly. Their online > system, STIN, supports not merely tens of thousands but hundreds of > thousands of concurrent users; it's the sort of application that > _STILL_ involves the use of hand-written IBM 370 assembly code. Having met some of the sabre guys at a dinner a few years ago, and having heard the funny stories of how clusters of dozens and dozens of unix boxes running oracle kept falling over in testing trying to handle the same load as their 12 sysplexed / load balanced 360 series mainframes (6 in front, 6 in back) I can not imagine sabre running their reservation system on MySQL either. Yahoo uses Oracle for all their financials (this from an insider friend who knows the score) and MySQL for content management. Choosing MySQL for an accounting app is like doing the math to send an orbiter to mars in yards, then converting it to meters where 1Yard=1Meter.
Bruce Momjian wrote: > Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > > > > > > > > Fujitsu, Cisco, Ford, Red Hat... there are others though not sure if > > > your boss would have heard of them. > > > > NCSA, ACS, Columbia University, USDF, Sandia Labs, VM Direct... > > Oh, yes, USA Homeland Security and Immigration use it a lot. Oh, AOL too. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073