Thread: Extreme incompetence by pgAdmin people in every way imaginable...

This isn't even funny. It's just sad and bizarre. Everything about this project screams of incompetence, from the impossibly slow and buggy pgAdmin 4 -- literally UNUSABLE after over a million dollars spent developing it! -- to this mailing list itself.

I'm going to have to assume that nobody gives a shit about anything related to pgAdmin. I'm sure as hell never going to "upgrade" from pgAdmin III, which itself is incredibly slow and buggy as well, but lightyears ahead of v4.

Then again, nobody will read this, just like my previous posts. You are immune to the truth. I'm going to force myself to use one of the weird "alternatives" and forget about pgAdmin forever. Bye.

(If I manage to unsubscribe to this inferno.)

It is my hope that this response does not indicate what I think it might, which is that the valid criticisms he has made in his emails are being lost in the immaturity with which he has presented them.

The points are valid that PG Admin 4 is extremely slow on Windows machines.  It is also true that there is a feature gap between this new version of the software, and PG Admin 3.  It is extremely surprising that this gap exists given the stated $1,000,000+ expenditure for development of the new version.  Where PG Admin 3 was able to spread across multiple windows on multiple monitors, PG Admin 4 is constrained to essentially a browser window.

With the issues it has, I still use PG Admin 4 because it supports features in the new versions of Postgres that version 3 simply doesn't.  I know the developers have been active on the mailing list and are attempting to suss out some of the thornier performance issues on Windows.  For these reasons, I have made my concerns known a couple of times, but will not continue to harp on them.

I realize that in the end, I get what I pay for.  If you choose to cast people as fools who have criticisms of your software, that is your choice.  I am a user of the database, and the admin software.  I am not a software developer, so my avenues for action to solve the problem are limited.  I am left with the option to air my concerns, as are many other people.  Hopefully we are not written off simply because this is all we do, however poorly we may choose to present them.

The story of the court jesters of old comes to mind.  They were written off as fools by the majority of people, however they used that as cover to deliver what was in many cases, extremely pointed social commentary.  So, while the original poster may be considered a fool, it does not make him wrong.

Thank you for the time and effort put forth on both PostgreSQL and PGAdmin.  They are great tools!

Russell

On 2017-06-23 07:07, Paragon Corporation wrote:

"Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain. And most fools do."

 

--- Benjamin Franklin

 

From: grekloedlc@tutanota.com [mailto:grekloedlc@tutanota.com]
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 9:16 AM
To: Pgadmin Support <pgadmin-support@postgresql.org>
Subject: Extreme incompetence by pgAdmin people in every way imaginable...

 

This isn't even funny. It's just sad and bizarre. Everything about this project screams of incompetence, from the impossibly slow and buggy pgAdmin 4 -- literally UNUSABLE after over a million dollars spent developing it! -- to this mailing list itself.

I'm going to have to assume that nobody gives a shit about anything related to pgAdmin. I'm sure as hell never going to "upgrade" from pgAdmin III, which itself is incredibly slow and buggy as well, but lightyears ahead of v4.

Then again, nobody will read this, just like my previous posts. You are immune to the truth. I'm going to force myself to use one of the weird "alternatives" and forget about pgAdmin forever. Bye.

(If I manage to unsubscribe to this inferno.)

I don't care regarding the blames. It's author's concern.
But I also unsuscribed from the list, received the mail, and confirmed.
Neverthless, the mails continue arriving.

this is for the postgress folks,

 

I started getting these emails a few days, maybe a week ago, I unsubscribed (I think, I went through the motions for sure)

but I still keep getting these emails …

 

warm flames for sure

 

but, can we please put the fire out (ie stop the unwanted email traffic???)

 

eric

 

ps: over ½ the emails have the solitary word ‘unsubscribe’ in them … wonder if they will get this email also …

 

 

 

From: Roland Kaschek [mailto:rolandkaschek@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 12:04 PM
To: Melvin Davidson
Cc: pgadmin-support@postgresql.org; Russell Mercer; Paragon Corporation
Subject: Re: RE: Extreme incompetence by pgAdmin people in every way imaginable...

 

Guys,

 

There are folks here, who get your posts and since quite some time want to get out of this list.

 

Do you think they enjoy your conversation?

 

I don't, by the way.

 

Thank you & best regards.

 

Am 23.06.2017 20:58 schrieb "Melvin Davidson" <melvin6925@yahoo.com>:

Russell,

> I still use PG Admin 4 because it supports features in the new versions of Postgres that

> version 3 simply doesn't.

 

Just curious. What features does PgAdmin 4 have that PgAdmin III does not?

I did a survey involving a future feature that is planned, but I have not yet

seen that as of 4 v1.5 .

 

Melvin Davidson 🎸
I reserve the right to fantasize.  Whether or not you
wish to share my fantasy is entirely up to you.
www.youtube.com/unusedhero/videos
Folk Alley - All Folk - 24 Hours a day
www.folkalley.com

 

 

 

---

On Friday, June 23, 2017, 2:47:51 PM EDT, Paragon Corporation <lr@pcorp.us> wrote:

 

 

Russell,

 

I fail to see a “valid” criticism in the original email. If there anything constructive at all, I would not have deemed him/her a fool.

 

Respectfully,

Leo

 

From: Russell Mercer [mailto:rmercer@getspatial.com]
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 2:04 PM
To: Paragon Corporation <lr@pcorp.us>
Cc: 'Pgadmin Support' <pgadmin-support@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: Extreme incompetence by pgAdmin people in every way imaginable...

 

It is my hope that this response does not indicate what I think it might, which is that the valid criticisms he has made in his emails are being lost in the immaturity with which he has presented them.

The points are valid that PG Admin 4 is extremely slow on Windows machines.  It is also true that there is a feature gap between this new version of the software, and PG Admin 3.  It is extremely surprising that this gap exists given the stated $1,000,000+ expenditure for development of the new version.  Where PG Admin 3 was able to spread across multiple windows on multiple monitors, PG Admin 4 is constrained to essentially a browser window.

With the issues it has, I still use PG Admin 4 because it supports features in the new versions of Postgres that version 3 simply doesn't.  I know the developers have been active on the mailing list and are attempting to suss out some of the thornier performance issues on Windows.  For these reasons, I have made my concerns known a couple of times, but will not continue to harp on them.

I realize that in the end, I get what I pay for.  If you choose to cast people as fools who have criticisms of your software, that is your choice.  I am a user of the database, and the admin software.  I am not a software developer, so my avenues for action to solve the problem are limited.  I am left with the option to air my concerns, as are many other people.  Hopefully we are not written off simply because this is all we do, however poorly we may choose to present them.

The story of the court jesters of old comes to mind.  They were written off as fools by the majority of people, however they used that as cover to deliver what was in many cases, extremely pointed social commentary.  So, while the original poster may be considered a fool, it does not make him wrong.

Thank you for the time and effort put forth on both PostgreSQL and PGAdmin.  They are great tools!

Russell

 

 

On 2017-06-23 07:07, Paragon Corporation wrote:

"Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain. And most fools do."

 

--- Benjamin Franklin

 

From: grekloedlc@tutanota.com [mailto:grekloedlc@tutanota.com]
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 9:16 AM
To: Pgadmin Support <pgadmin-support@postgresql.org>
Subject: Extreme incompetence by pgAdmin people in every way imaginable...

 

This isn't even funny. It's just sad and bizarre. Everything about this project screams of incompetence, from the impossibly slow and buggy pgAdmin 4 -- literally UNUSABLE after over a million dollars spent developing it! -- to this mailing list itself.

I'm going to have to assume that nobody gives a shit about anything related to pgAdmin. I'm sure as hell never going to "upgrade" from pgAdmin III, which itself is incredibly slow and buggy as well, but lightyears ahead of v4.

Then again, nobody will read this, just like my previous posts. You are immune to the truth. I'm going to force myself to use one of the weird "alternatives" and forget about pgAdmin forever. Bye.

(If I manage to unsubscribe to this inferno.)

Melvin,

PgAdmin 4 has more in depth support for foreign data tables and materialized views than does PgAdmin III.  There are separate sections for them which makes sense as they are a different construct than a standard view or table.  These are the primary items I was referring to.

Russell

On 2017-06-23 11:54, Melvin Davidson wrote:

Russell,

> I still use PG Admin 4 because it supports features in the new versions of Postgres that

> version 3 simply doesn't.

 

Just curious. What features does PgAdmin 4 have that PgAdmin III does not?

I did a survey involving a future feature that is planned, but I have not yet

seen that as of 4 v1.5 .

 

Melvin Davidson 🎸
I reserve the right to fantasize.  Whether or not you
wish to share my fantasy is entirely up to you.
www.youtube.com/unusedhero/videos
Folk Alley - All Folk - 24 Hours a day
www.folkalley.com

 

 

 

---

On Friday, June 23, 2017, 2:47:51 PM EDT, Paragon Corporation <lr@pcorp.us> wrote:

 

 

Russell,

 

I fail to see a "valid" criticism in the original email. If there anything constructive at all, I would not have deemed him/her a fool.

 

Respectfully,

Leo

 

From: Russell Mercer [mailto:rmercer@getspatial.com]
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 2:04 PM
To: Paragon Corporation <lr@pcorp.us>
Cc: 'Pgadmin Support' <pgadmin-support@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: Extreme incompetence by pgAdmin people in every way imaginable...

 

It is my hope that this response does not indicate what I think it might, which is that the valid criticisms he has made in his emails are being lost in the immaturity with which he has presented them.

The points are valid that PG Admin 4 is extremely slow on Windows machines.  It is also true that there is a feature gap between this new version of the software, and PG Admin 3.  It is extremely surprising that this gap exists given the stated $1,000,000+ expenditure for development of the new version.  Where PG Admin 3 was able to spread across multiple windows on multiple monitors, PG Admin 4 is constrained to essentially a browser window.

With the issues it has, I still use PG Admin 4 because it supports features in the new versions of Postgres that version 3 simply doesn't.  I know the developers have been active on the mailing list and are attempting to suss out some of the thornier performance issues on Windows.  For these reasons, I have made my concerns known a couple of times, but will not continue to harp on them.

I realize that in the end, I get what I pay for.  If you choose to cast people as fools who have criticisms of your software, that is your choice.  I am a user of the database, and the admin software.  I am not a software developer, so my avenues for action to solve the problem are limited.  I am left with the option to air my concerns, as are many other people.  Hopefully we are not written off simply because this is all we do, however poorly we may choose to present them.

The story of the court jesters of old comes to mind.  They were written off as fools by the majority of people, however they used that as cover to deliver what was in many cases, extremely pointed social commentary.  So, while the original poster may be considered a fool, it does not make him wrong.

Thank you for the time and effort put forth on both PostgreSQL and PGAdmin.  They are great tools!

Russell

 

 

On 2017-06-23 07:07, Paragon Corporation wrote:

"Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain. And most fools do."

 

--- Benjamin Franklin

 

From: grekloedlc@tutanota.com [mailto:grekloedlc@tutanota.com]
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 9:16 AM
To: Pgadmin Support <pgadmin-support@postgresql.org>
Subject: Extreme incompetence by pgAdmin people in every way imaginable...

 

This isn't even funny. It's just sad and bizarre. Everything about this project screams of incompetence, from the impossibly slow and buggy pgAdmin 4 -- literally UNUSABLE after over a million dollars spent developing it! -- to this mailing list itself.

I'm going to have to assume that nobody gives a shit about anything related to pgAdmin. I'm sure as hell never going to "upgrade" from pgAdmin III, which itself is incredibly slow and buggy as well, but lightyears ahead of v4.

Then again, nobody will read this, just like my previous posts. You are immune to the truth. I'm going to force myself to use one of the weird "alternatives" and forget about pgAdmin forever. Bye.

(If I manage to unsubscribe to this inferno.)

This email (including any attachments) is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only and may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not keep, use, disclose, copy or distribute this email without the author's prior permission. //Datavail/Business - Limited External Distribution

On 2017-06-23 12:33 PM, Regina Obe wrote:
> pgAdmin (pgAdmin 4 graphical user tool that comes packaged with a lot of
> PostgreSQL distributions).
>
> I think the issue is people are getting emails from the pgAdmin mailing list
> that never used to before.
>
> I think I had my setting set to digest, and now past week or so I get all of
> them individually so seems like a lot which I think is why people are trying to
> unsubscribe.

It doesn't help that, despite all of us on the list being technical people, such 
a large number of list subscribers are causing trouble for everyone else by 
spamming the list with "unsubscribe" rather than getting themselves off the 
proper way.  These messages are the fault of the subscribers, not the admins. -- 
Darren Duncan

hate to say it, but you have that backwards, at least speaking for myself,  these emails started recently, with no
action,intent or desire on my part ...
 


-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Duncan [mailto:darren@darrenduncan.net] 
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 12:43 PM
To: 'Pgadmin Support'
Subject: Re: Extreme incompetence by pgAdmin people in every way imaginable...

On 2017-06-23 12:33 PM, Regina Obe wrote:
> pgAdmin (pgAdmin 4 graphical user tool that comes packaged with a lot 
> of PostgreSQL distributions).
>
> I think the issue is people are getting emails from the pgAdmin 
> mailing list that never used to before.
>
> I think I had my setting set to digest, and now past week or so I get 
> all of them individually so seems like a lot which I think is why 
> people are trying to unsubscribe.

It doesn't help that, despite all of us on the list being technical people, such a large number of list subscribers are
causingtrouble for everyone else by spamming the list with "unsubscribe" rather than getting themselves off the proper
way. These messages are the fault of the subscribers, not the admins. -- Darren Duncan
 

And the CAUSE of those messages is other subscribers who spam the list rather 
than using the proper channels.

On 2017-06-23 12:50 PM, Eric P. Melbardis wrote:
> hate to say it, but you have that backwards, at least speaking for myself,  these emails started recently, with no
action,intent or desire on my part ...
 
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Duncan [mailto:darren@darrenduncan.net]
> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 12:43 PM
> To: 'Pgadmin Support'
> Subject: Re: Extreme incompetence by pgAdmin people in every way imaginable...
>
> On 2017-06-23 12:33 PM, Regina Obe wrote:
>> pgAdmin (pgAdmin 4 graphical user tool that comes packaged with a lot
>> of PostgreSQL distributions).
>>
>> I think the issue is people are getting emails from the pgAdmin
>> mailing list that never used to before.
>>
>> I think I had my setting set to digest, and now past week or so I get
>> all of them individually so seems like a lot which I think is why
>> people are trying to unsubscribe.
>
> It doesn't help that, despite all of us on the list being technical people, such a large number of list subscribers
arecausing trouble for everyone else by spamming the list with "unsubscribe" rather than getting themselves off the
properway.  These messages are the fault of the subscribers, not the admins. -- Darren Duncan
 

I unsubscribed using the website at lists.postgresql.org. Why am I
still receiving mail from this list?

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Darren Duncan <darren@darrenduncan.net> wrote:
> And the CAUSE of those messages is other subscribers who spam the list
> rather than using the proper channels.
>
>
> On 2017-06-23 12:50 PM, Eric P. Melbardis wrote:
>>
>> hate to say it, but you have that backwards, at least speaking for myself,
>> these emails started recently, with no action, intent or desire on my part
>> ...
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Darren Duncan [mailto:darren@darrenduncan.net]
>> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 12:43 PM
>> To: 'Pgadmin Support'
>> Subject: Re: Extreme incompetence by pgAdmin people in every way
>> imaginable...
>>
>> On 2017-06-23 12:33 PM, Regina Obe wrote:
>>>
>>> pgAdmin (pgAdmin 4 graphical user tool that comes packaged with a lot
>>> of PostgreSQL distributions).
>>>
>>> I think the issue is people are getting emails from the pgAdmin
>>> mailing list that never used to before.
>>>
>>> I think I had my setting set to digest, and now past week or so I get
>>> all of them individually so seems like a lot which I think is why
>>> people are trying to unsubscribe.
>>
>>
>> It doesn't help that, despite all of us on the list being technical
>> people, such a large number of list subscribers are causing trouble for
>> everyone else by spamming the list with "unsubscribe" rather than getting
>> themselves off the proper way.  These messages are the fault of the
>> subscribers, not the admins. -- Darren Duncan
>
>
>

I agree with Brendan: no matter how rude a mail to the list could be, yo cannot answer the same mood.

But my main concern is the unsuscribe mechanism: it does not work; I tried it some days ago, and the mails continue arriving.

Marcelo

I was letting this stuff go as best as I could, but this is some serious nonsense going on right here.  And the response by Paragon and devs or whatever they are is horrible.  If a fool is rude to you, you don't, as the face of a company, respond in a rude way.  You shouldn't have access to public facing communications if that's how you're going to respond.

As for the unsubscribe stuff, it doesn't work.  I'm reporting spam and blocking senders, and will report every other email I get from the group as spam as well.  Don't like that?  Fix it on your end.

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:32 PM Alex Ignatov <a.ignatov@postgrespro.ru> wrote:

What  PgAdmin is and why everybody is unsubscribing?

Alexey Ignatov

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 10:19 PM +0300, "Russell Mercer" <rmercer@getspatial.com> wrote:

Melvin,

PgAdmin 4 has more in depth support for foreign data tables and materialized views than does PgAdmin III.  There are separate sections for them which makes sense as they are a different construct than a standard view or table.  These are the primary items I was referring to.

Russell

 

On 2017-06-23 11:54, Melvin Davidson wrote:

Russell,

> I still use PG Admin 4 because it supports features in the new versions of Postgres that

> version 3 simply doesn't.

 

Just curious. What features does PgAdmin 4 have that PgAdmin III does not?

I did a survey involving a future feature that is planned, but I have not yet

seen that as of 4 v1.5 .

 

Melvin Davidson 🎸
I reserve the right to fantasize.  Whether or not you
wish to share my fantasy is entirely up to you.
www.youtube.com/unusedhero/videos
Folk Alley - All Folk - 24 Hours a day
www.folkalley.com

 

 

 

---

On Friday, June 23, 2017, 2:47:51 PM EDT, Paragon Corporation <lr@pcorp.us> wrote:

 

 

Russell,

 

I fail to see a "valid" criticism in the original email. If there anything constructive at all, I would not have deemed him/her a fool.

 

Respectfully,

Leo

 

From: Russell Mercer [mailto:rmercer@getspatial.com]
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 2:04 PM
To: Paragon Corporation <lr@pcorp.us>
Cc: 'Pgadmin Support' <pgadmin-support@postgresql.org>
Subject: Re: Extreme incompetence by pgAdmin people in every way imaginable...

 

It is my hope that this response does not indicate what I think it might, which is that the valid criticisms he has made in his emails are being lost in the immaturity with which he has presented them.

The points are valid that PG Admin 4 is extremely slow on Windows machines.  It is also true that there is a feature gap between this new version of the software, and PG Admin 3.  It is extremely surprising that this gap exists given the stated $1,000,000+ expenditure for development of the new version.  Where PG Admin 3 was able to spread across multiple windows on multiple monitors, PG Admin 4 is constrained to essentially a browser window.

With the issues it has, I still use PG Admin 4 because it supports features in the new versions of Postgres that version 3 simply doesn't.  I know the developers have been active on the mailing list and are attempting to suss out some of the thornier performance issues on Windows.  For these reasons, I have made my concerns known a couple of times, but will not continue to harp on them.

I realize that in the end, I get what I pay for.  If you choose to cast people as fools who have criticisms of your software, that is your choice.  I am a user of the database, and the admin software.  I am not a software developer, so my avenues for action to solve the problem are limited.  I am left with the option to air my concerns, as are many other people.  Hopefully we are not written off simply because this is all we do, however poorly we may choose to present them.

The story of the court jesters of old comes to mind.  They were written off as fools by the majority of people, however they used that as cover to deliver what was in many cases, extremely pointed social commentary.  So, while the original poster may be considered a fool, it does not make him wrong.

Thank you for the time and effort put forth on both PostgreSQL and PGAdmin.  They are great tools!

Russell

 

 

On 2017-06-23 07:07, Paragon Corporation wrote:

"Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain. And most fools do."

 

--- Benjamin Franklin

 

From: grekloedlc@tutanota.com [mailto:grekloedlc@tutanota.com]
Sent: Friday, June 23, 2017 9:16 AM
To: Pgadmin Support <pgadmin-support@postgresql.org>
Subject: Extreme incompetence by pgAdmin people in every way imaginable...

 

This isn't even funny. It's just sad and bizarre. Everything about this project screams of incompetence, from the impossibly slow and buggy pgAdmin 4 -- literally UNUSABLE after over a million dollars spent developing it! -- to this mailing list itself.

I'm going to have to assume that nobody gives a shit about anything related to pgAdmin. I'm sure as hell never going to "upgrade" from pgAdmin III, which itself is incredibly slow and buggy as well, but lightyears ahead of v4.

Then again, nobody will read this, just like my previous posts. You are immune to the truth. I'm going to force myself to use one of the weird "alternatives" and forget about pgAdmin forever. Bye.

(If I manage to unsubscribe to this inferno.)