Thread: Indication of db-shared tables

Indication of db-shared tables

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
Do we do enough to show which tables are db shared, e.g. pg_database?  I
don't see any indication from psql \dS.  Are our docs clear enough?

--  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB
http://enterprisedb.com
 + It's impossible for everything to be true. +


Re: Indication of db-shared tables

From
"Greg Sabino Mullane"
Date:
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> Do we do enough to show which tables are db shared, e.g. pg_database?  I
> don't see any indication from psql \dS.  Are our docs clear enough?

I don't think \dS should be indicating such a thing. I think it's documented 
well enough: if you are doing something that it matters enough which 
tables are shared, you really oughtta know about them anyway.

- -- 
Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com
End Point Corporation http://www.endpoint.com/
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 201106212323
http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8
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Re: Indication of db-shared tables

From
Alvaro Herrera
Date:
Excerpts from Greg Sabino Mullane's message of mié jun 22 03:24:34 UTC 2011:
> 
> Hash: RIPEMD160
> 
> > Do we do enough to show which tables are db shared, e.g. pg_database?  I
> > don't see any indication from psql \dS.  Are our docs clear enough?
> 
> I don't think \dS should be indicating such a thing. I think it's documented 
> well enough: if you are doing something that it matters enough which 
> tables are shared, you really oughtta know about them anyway.

Yeah.  The user can't create new ones either, so why would it matter?

-- 
Álvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com>
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support


Re: Indication of db-shared tables

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Excerpts from Greg Sabino Mullane's message of mié jun 22 03:24:34 UTC 2011:
> > 
> > Hash: RIPEMD160
> > 
> > > Do we do enough to show which tables are db shared, e.g. pg_database?  I
> > > don't see any indication from psql \dS.  Are our docs clear enough?
> > 
> > I don't think \dS should be indicating such a thing. I think it's documented 
> > well enough: if you are doing something that it matters enough which 
> > tables are shared, you really oughtta know about them anyway.
> 
> Yeah.  The user can't create new ones either, so why would it matter?

I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace.  The issue comes
up when I do admin training about the system tables.

--  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB
http://enterprisedb.com
 + It's impossible for everything to be true. +


Re: Indication of db-shared tables

From
Jeff MacDonald
Date:
Greetings,

On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
> per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace.  The issue comes
> up when I do admin training about the system tables.

+1 

I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.

Regards,
J


Re: Indication of db-shared tables

From
Alvaro Herrera
Date:
Excerpts from Jeff MacDonald's message of mié jun 22 09:27:36 -0400 2011:
> Greetings,
> 
> On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
> > per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace.  The issue comes
> > up when I do admin training about the system tables.
> 
> +1 
> 
> I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.

So what UI would you guys propose?  I don't think widening the output of
frequently used commands like \d or \d+ is okay for a feature with this
small a use case.

-- 
Álvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com>
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support


Re: Indication of db-shared tables

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Excerpts from Jeff MacDonald's message of mié jun 22 09:27:36 -0400 2011:
> > Greetings,
> > 
> > On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
> > > per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace.  The issue comes
> > > up when I do admin training about the system tables.
> > 
> > +1 
> > 
> > I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.
> 
> So what UI would you guys propose?  I don't think widening the output of
> frequently used commands like \d or \d+ is okay for a feature with this
> small a use case.

I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
I can put it there.

--  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB
http://enterprisedb.com
 + It's impossible for everything to be true. +


Re: Indication of db-shared tables

From
Alvaro Herrera
Date:
Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mié jun 22 14:31:51 -0400 2011:
> Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> > Excerpts from Jeff MacDonald's message of mi jun 22 09:27:36 -0400 2011:
> > > Greetings,
> > > 
> > > On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > > I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
> > > > per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace.  The issue comes
> > > > up when I do admin training about the system tables.
> > > 
> > > +1 
> > > 
> > > I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.
> > 
> > So what UI would you guys propose?  I don't think widening the output of
> > frequently used commands like \d or \d+ is okay for a feature with this
> > small a use case.
> 
> I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
> I can put it there.

That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
catalog for databases", you mean?

-- 
Álvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com>
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support


Re: Indication of db-shared tables

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mié jun 22 14:31:51 -0400 2011:
> > Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> > > Excerpts from Jeff MacDonald's message of mi jun 22 09:27:36 -0400 2011:
> > > > Greetings,
> > > > 
> > > > On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 09:10:02 AM Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > > > I assumed it was important to indicate if someone was looking at
> > > > > per-database or per-cluster data, like pg_tablespace.  The issue comes
> > > > > up when I do admin training about the system tables.
> > > > 
> > > > +1 
> > > > 
> > > > I favor features that make training easier for the teacher.
> > > 
> > > So what UI would you guys propose?  I don't think widening the output of
> > > frequently used commands like \d or \d+ is okay for a feature with this
> > > small a use case.
> > 
> > I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
> > I can put it there.
> 
> That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
> catalog for databases", you mean?

I was thinking "(shared)" as part of the description.

--  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB
http://enterprisedb.com
 + It's impossible for everything to be true. +


Re: Indication of db-shared tables

From
Alvaro Herrera
Date:
Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mié jun 22 15:24:40 -0400 2011:
> Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> > Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mi jun 22 14:31:51 -0400 2011:

> > > I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
> > > I can put it there.
> > 
> > That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
> > catalog for databases", you mean?
> 
> I was thinking "(shared)" as part of the description.

Well, that's what I was proposing above, sans the (unnecessary?) parens.

-- 
Álvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com>
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support


Re: Indication of db-shared tables

From
Andrew Dunstan
Date:

On 06/22/2011 03:24 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>>>
>>> I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
>>> I can put it there.
>> That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
>> catalog for databases", you mean?
> I was thinking "(shared)" as part of the description.
>


I'm a bit unclear who this is going to help much. If you know what a 
shared table is you're pretty likely to know which tables are shared - 
there aren't that many of them after all. If you don't, this description 
is at least as likely to confuse you as help you in any way. I don't 
have strong feelings, just a bit of a suspicion that this isn't going to 
do much good.

cheers

andrew


Re: Indication of db-shared tables

From
Bruce Momjian
Date:
Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mié jun 22 15:24:40 -0400 2011:
> > Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> > > Excerpts from Bruce Momjian's message of mi jun 22 14:31:51 -0400 2011:
> 
> > > > I am going to try to add descriptions for system tables for \d+ so maybe
> > > > I can put it there.
> > > 
> > > That would be OK with me, I guess -- something like "shared system
> > > catalog for databases", you mean?
> > 
> > I was thinking "(shared)" as part of the description.
> 
> Well, that's what I was proposing above, sans the (unnecessary?) parens.

OK.

--  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB
http://enterprisedb.com
 + It's impossible for everything to be true. +