Thread: Are we losing momentum?
Several people have asked if we are losing momentum. Specifically, they are concerned about Red Hat dropping their Red Hat Database and instead distributing PostgreSQL as part of Red Hat Enterprise Server, and they are concerned about recent press articles about MySQL. Let me address these. First, the Red Hat change probably has a lot to do with Oracle's relationship with Red Hat, and very little to do with PostgreSQL. Their pullback is similar to Great Bridge's closing, except that Red Hat's database group is still around, so we aren't losing Tom Lane or Patrick MacDonald (who is completing our PITR work for 7.4). As far as MySQL, they have a company to push articles to the press, and many writers just dress them up and print them --- you can tell them because the pushed ones mention only MySQL, while the non=pushed ones mention MySQL and PostgreSQL. I have been around the globe enough to know that PostgreSQL is well on track. Our user base is growing, we have Win32 and PITR ready for 7.4 (and each had some commercial funding to make them happen.) Recently, I have also been fielding questions from several companies that want to hire PostgreSQL developers to work for the community. But most importantly, there is mind share. I get _very_ few questions about MySQL anymore, and when the database topic comes up on Slashdot, the MySQL guys usually end up looking foolish for using MySQL. And my recent trip to Toronto (who's details I have shared with core but can not discuss) left no doubt in my mind that PostgreSQL is moving forward at a rapid rate. And, I have 1.5k emails to read after a one week trip. :-) -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
With the feature set that Postgres has, it isn't going to lose momentum. It is lacking in some areas that are slowly being addressed. If they weren't being addressed, THEN, postgres would lose momentum. We're fortunate to have good volunteers and the private donations of companies as well. Bruce Momjian wrote: > > Several people have asked if we are losing momentum. Specifically, they > are concerned about Red Hat dropping their Red Hat Database and instead > distributing PostgreSQL as part of Red Hat Enterprise Server, and they > are concerned about recent press articles about MySQL. > > Let me address these. First, the Red Hat change probably has a lot to > do with Oracle's relationship with Red Hat, and very little to do with > PostgreSQL. Their pullback is similar to Great Bridge's closing, except > that Red Hat's database group is still around, so we aren't losing Tom > Lane or Patrick MacDonald (who is completing our PITR work for 7.4). > > As far as MySQL, they have a company to push articles to the press, and > many writers just dress them up and print them --- you can tell them > because the pushed ones mention only MySQL, while the non=pushed ones > mention MySQL and PostgreSQL. > > I have been around the globe enough to know that PostgreSQL is well on > track. Our user base is growing, we have Win32 and PITR ready for 7.4 > (and each had some commercial funding to make them happen.) Recently, I > have also been fielding questions from several companies that want to > hire PostgreSQL developers to work for the community. > > But most importantly, there is mind share. I get _very_ few questions > about MySQL anymore, and when the database topic comes up on Slashdot, > the MySQL guys usually end up looking foolish for using MySQL. And my > recent trip to Toronto (who's details I have shared with core but can > not discuss) left no doubt in my mind that PostgreSQL is moving forward > at a rapid rate. > > And, I have 1.5k emails to read after a one week trip. :-) > > -- > Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us > pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 > + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road > + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
On Tue, 2003-04-15 at 00:37, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Several people have asked if we are losing momentum. Specifically, they > are concerned about Red Hat dropping their Red Hat Database and instead > distributing PostgreSQL as part of Red Hat Enterprise Server, and they > are concerned about recent press articles about MySQL. Just reading GENERAL every day shows quite the contrary! There are more and more questions which really belong on NOVICE. More and more questions about porting applications from MySQL and Access. RedHat renaming "PostgreSQL" to "PostgreSQL" after a short stint a.k.a. "Red Hat Database" is a very positive step. Lots of stupid journalists are starting to write "replace Oracle with MySQL" rubbish. I am very concerned about this because the DBA who is stupid enough to do this will fail miserably and get the wrong impression about free RDBMS. Lets forget the "replace MySQL with PostgreSQL" stuff and go looking for higher end converts. Our marketing push should be "replace Oracle with PostgreSQL and replace Access with MySQL". This puts the emphasis on which database can do what... Just my 2 EURO cents Cheers Tony Grant (yes I use PostgreSQL where MySQL would suffice...) -- www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit, redhat linux on Sony Vaio C1XD, Dreamweaver MX with Tomcat and PostgreSQL
** Reply to message from Tony Grant <tony@tgds.net> on 15 Apr 2003 08:12:04 +0200 Hi, I've got to agree with this. We have just been through the excercise of porting our quite extensive fleet maintenance and accounting package from db2 to postgres. While the port was not without pain :) the results are very good. We run windows clients, (mostly), and whatever the database of choice performs best on for the backend. We are seeing performance gains for the 20-100 user bracket of a factor of 10 to 20 for switching from db2 to postgres on the same platform. We literally could not port this stuff to mysql. It does not have enough feature to support us :) Definitely the story is not that postgres competes with mysql/access but rather with db2/oracle, and the point in time recovery coming in the next release, just strengthens that story a whole lot more too. And, client reaction to an opensource (free :) database on linux has been very enthusiastic. Regards, Wayne http://www.bacchus.com.au > On Tue, 2003-04-15 at 00:37, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > Several people have asked if we are losing momentum. Specifically, they > > are concerned about Red Hat dropping their Red Hat Database and instead > > distributing PostgreSQL as part of Red Hat Enterprise Server, and they > > are concerned about recent press articles about MySQL. > > Just reading GENERAL every day shows quite the contrary! There are more > and more questions which really belong on NOVICE. More and more > questions about porting applications from MySQL and Access. > > RedHat renaming "PostgreSQL" to "PostgreSQL" after a short stint a.k.a. > "Red Hat Database" is a very positive step. > > Lots of stupid journalists are starting to write "replace Oracle with > MySQL" rubbish. I am very concerned about this because the DBA who is > stupid enough to do this will fail miserably and get the wrong > impression about free RDBMS. > > Lets forget the "replace MySQL with PostgreSQL" stuff and go looking for > higher end converts. Our marketing push should be "replace Oracle with > PostgreSQL and replace Access with MySQL". This puts the emphasis on > which database can do what... > > Just my 2 EURO cents > > Cheers > Tony Grant > (yes I use PostgreSQL where MySQL would suffice...) > > -- > www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit, > redhat linux on Sony Vaio C1XD, > Dreamweaver MX with Tomcat and PostgreSQL > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command > (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org)
On Tuesday 15 April 2003 14:00, you wrote: > ** Reply to message from Tony Grant <tony@tgds.net> on 15 Apr 2003 08:12:04 > +0200 > Hi, > I've got to agree with this. > We have just been through the excercise of porting our quite extensive > fleet maintenance and accounting package from db2 to postgres. While the > port was not without pain :) the results are very good. We run windows > clients, (mostly), and whatever the database of choice performs best on for > the backend. We are seeing performance gains for the 20-100 user bracket of > a factor of 10 to 20 for switching from db2 to postgres on the same > platform. > We literally could not port this stuff to mysql. It does not have enough > feature to support us :) > Definitely the story is not that postgres competes with mysql/access but > rather with db2/oracle, and the point in time recovery coming in the next > release, just strengthens that story a whole lot more too. > > And, client reaction to an opensource (free :) database on linux has been > very enthusiastic. If you don't mind, could you please submit a short write up on your experience for submission on postgresql advocacy-Case Study section? You can either post it to posgresql advocacy list or send it to me offlist, if required. See http://advocacy.postgresql.org Shridhar
Hi,
Your experience is very interesting.
But could you tell me what is the Database size ?
Regards,
Thierry
Wayne Armstrong wrote:
> ** Reply to message from Tony Grant <tony@tgds.net> on 15 Apr 2003 08:12:04
> +0200
> Hi,
> I've got to agree with this.
> We have just been through the excercise of porting our quite extensive fleet
> maintenance and accounting package from db2 to postgres. While the port was not
> without pain :) the results are very good. We run windows clients, (mostly),
> and whatever the database of choice performs best on for the backend. We are
> seeing performance gains for the 20-100 user bracket of a factor of 10 to 20
> for switching from db2 to postgres on the same platform.
> We literally could not port this stuff to mysql. It does not have enough
> feature to support us :)
> Definitely the story is not that postgres competes with mysql/access but
> rather with db2/oracle, and the point in time recovery coming in the next
> release, just strengthens that story a whole lot more too.
>
> And, client reaction to an opensource (free :) database on linux has been very
> enthusiastic.
>
> Regards,
> Wayne
> http://www.bacchus.com.au
>
> > On Tue, 2003-04-15 at 00:37, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > Several people have asked if we are losing momentum. Specifically, they
> > > are concerned about Red Hat dropping their Red Hat Database and instead
> > > distributing PostgreSQL as part of Red Hat Enterprise Server, and they
> > > are concerned about recent press articles about MySQL.
> >
> > Just reading GENERAL every day shows quite the contrary! There are more
> > and more questions which really belong on NOVICE. More and more
> > questions about porting applications from MySQL and Access.
> >
> > RedHat renaming "PostgreSQL" to "PostgreSQL" after a short stint a.k.a.
> > "Red Hat Database" is a very positive step.
> >
> > Lots of stupid journalists are starting to write "replace Oracle with
> > MySQL" rubbish. I am very concerned about this because the DBA who is
> > stupid enough to do this will fail miserably and get the wrong
> > impression about free RDBMS.
> >
> > Lets forget the "replace MySQL with PostgreSQL" stuff and go looking for
> > higher end converts. Our marketing push should be "replace Oracle with
> > PostgreSQL and replace Access with MySQL". This puts the emphasis on
> > which database can do what...
> >
> > Just my 2 EURO cents
> >
> > Cheers
> > Tony Grant
> > (yes I use PostgreSQL where MySQL would suffice...)
> >
> > --
> > www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit,
> > redhat linux on Sony Vaio C1XD,
> > Dreamweaver MX with Tomcat and PostgreSQL
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command
> > (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org)
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org
Attachment
** Reply to message from Thierry Missimilly <THIERRY.MISSIMILLY@BULL.NET> on Tue, 15 Apr 2003 11:41:47 +0200 Hi, About 450 tables (+ lots of views:) Row counts range from 0 to about 3 million. Database sizes range from about 600 meg (a bus company with about 50 busses and a years fueling/servicing/rostering history) to around 12 gig currently :). We are not newbies with db2. We have been using/suppling it since version 2.1(We actually started development on ver 1. something, but didn't ship till after the version 2 release :). We do do a good job of tuning db2. Nevertheless, performance of postgresql across the board (and we have not designed for postgres like we did for db2), leaves db2 for dead most places. Regards, Wayne > Hi, > Your experience is very interesting. > But could you tell me what is the Database size ? > > Regards, > Thierry > > Wayne Armstrong wrote: > > > ** Reply to message from Tony Grant <tony@tgds.net> on 15 Apr 2003 08:12:04 > > +0200 > > Hi, > > I've got to agree with this. > > We have just been through the excercise of porting our quite extensive fleet > > maintenance and accounting package from db2 to postgres. While the port was not > > without pain :) the results are very good. We run windows clients, (mostly), > > and whatever the database of choice performs best on for the backend. We are > > seeing performance gains for the 20-100 user bracket of a factor of 10 to 20 > > for switching from db2 to postgres on the same platform. > > We literally could not port this stuff to mysql. It does not have enough > > feature to support us :) > > Definitely the story is not that postgres competes with mysql/access but > > rather with db2/oracle, and the point in time recovery coming in the next > > release, just strengthens that story a whole lot more too. > > > > And, client reaction to an opensource (free :) database on linux has been very > > enthusiastic. > > > > Regards, > > Wayne > > http://www.bacchus.com.au > > > > > On Tue, 2003-04-15 at 00:37, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > Several people have asked if we are losing momentum. Specifically, they > > > > are concerned about Red Hat dropping their Red Hat Database and instead > > > > distributing PostgreSQL as part of Red Hat Enterprise Server, and they > > > > are concerned about recent press articles about MySQL. > > > > > > Just reading GENERAL every day shows quite the contrary! There are more > > > and more questions which really belong on NOVICE. More and more > > > questions about porting applications from MySQL and Access. > > > > > > RedHat renaming "PostgreSQL" to "PostgreSQL" after a short stint a.k.a. > > > "Red Hat Database" is a very positive step. > > > > > > Lots of stupid journalists are starting to write "replace Oracle with > > > MySQL" rubbish. I am very concerned about this because the DBA who is > > > stupid enough to do this will fail miserably and get the wrong > > > impression about free RDBMS. > > > > > > Lets forget the "replace MySQL with PostgreSQL" stuff and go looking for > > > higher end converts. Our marketing push should be "replace Oracle with > > > PostgreSQL and replace Access with MySQL". This puts the emphasis on > > > which database can do what... > > > > > > Just my 2 EURO cents > > > > > > Cheers > > > Tony Grant > > > (yes I use PostgreSQL where MySQL would suffice...) > > > > > > -- > > > www.tgds.net Library management software toolkit, > > > redhat linux on Sony Vaio C1XD, > > > Dreamweaver MX with Tomcat and PostgreSQL > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > > > TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command > > > (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org) > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org
As one of the top search engine campaign optimization companies in the space, we here at Did-it.com have been using Postgresql for over a year now. We had serious locking problems with MySQL and even switching to their Innodb handler did not solve all the issues. As the DB administrator, I recommended we switch when it came time to re-write our client platform. That we did, and we have not looked back. We have millions of listings, keywords and we perform live visitor tracking in our database. We capture on the order of about 1 million visitors every day, with each hit making updates, selects and possibly inserts. We could not have done this in mySQL. Basically when I see silly posts over on Slashdot about MySQL being as good a sliced bread, you can check out the debunking posts that I make as "esconsult1". Yes, perhaps Postgresql needs a central org that manages press and so on, but we know that we dont get the press that MySQL does, but quietly in the background Postgresql is handling large important things. - Ericson Smith Web Developer Db Admin http://www.did-it.com -- Ericson Smith <eric@did-it.com>
Hi, We should probably put out an FAQ saying, if you have success story, please make a write-up and send to us at http://advocacy.postgresql.org. Shridhar On Tuesday 15 April 2003 18:42, Ericson Smith wrote: > As one of the top search engine campaign optimization companies in the > space, we here at Did-it.com have been using Postgresql for over a year > now. We had serious locking problems with MySQL and even switching to > their Innodb handler did not solve all the issues. > > As the DB administrator, I recommended we switch when it came time to > re-write our client platform. That we did, and we have not looked back. > We have millions of listings, keywords and we perform live visitor > tracking in our database. We capture on the order of about 1 million > visitors every day, with each hit making updates, selects and possibly > inserts. > > We could not have done this in mySQL. Basically when I see silly posts > over on Slashdot about MySQL being as good a sliced bread, you can check > out the debunking posts that I make as "esconsult1". > > Yes, perhaps Postgresql needs a central org that manages press and so > on, but we know that we dont get the press that MySQL does, but quietly > in the background Postgresql is handling large important things. > > - Ericson Smith > Web Developer > Db Admin > http://www.did-it.com
On Tue, Apr 15, 2003 at 08:12:04AM +0200, Tony Grant wrote: > Lets forget the "replace MySQL with PostgreSQL" stuff and go looking for > higher end converts. Our marketing push should be "replace Oracle with > PostgreSQL and replace Access with MySQL". This puts the emphasis on > which database can do what... Except going from MS Access to MySQL would be a step backwards. :P -- Jim C. Nasby (aka Decibel!) jim@nasby.net Member: Triangle Fraternity, Sports Car Club of America Give your computer some brain candy! www.distributed.net Team #1828 Windows: "Where do you want to go today?" Linux: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?" FreeBSD: "Are you guys coming, or what?"
Yeah, I agree, Except about the Access part. Replace Access with ANYTHING :) But really that isn't a joke, Access is though. One other question, where is Replication, and updateable cursors / views? Shoot high, then you better aim higher than crap like ooh we have views and stored procedures (with Perl! drool....) and mysql doesn't. Thanks, Eric >> Lets forget the "replace MySQL with PostgreSQL" stuff and go looking for >> higher end converts. Our marketing push should be "replace Oracle with >> PostgreSQL and replace Access with MySQL". This puts the emphasis on >> which database can do what... (250) 655 - 9513 (PST Time Zone) "Inquiry is fatal to certainty." -- Will Durant
Done. Added to 1.15) How can I financially assist PostgreSQL?
<P>Also, if you have a success story about PostgreSQL, please submit
it to our advocacy site at <a href="http://advocacy.postgresql.org">
http://advocacy.postgresql.org</a>.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shridhar Daithankar wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We should probably put out an FAQ saying, if you have success story, please
> make a write-up and send to us at http://advocacy.postgresql.org.
>
> Shridhar
>
> On Tuesday 15 April 2003 18:42, Ericson Smith wrote:
> > As one of the top search engine campaign optimization companies in the
> > space, we here at Did-it.com have been using Postgresql for over a year
> > now. We had serious locking problems with MySQL and even switching to
> > their Innodb handler did not solve all the issues.
> >
> > As the DB administrator, I recommended we switch when it came time to
> > re-write our client platform. That we did, and we have not looked back.
> > We have millions of listings, keywords and we perform live visitor
> > tracking in our database. We capture on the order of about 1 million
> > visitors every day, with each hit making updates, selects and possibly
> > inserts.
> >
> > We could not have done this in mySQL. Basically when I see silly posts
> > over on Slashdot about MySQL being as good a sliced bread, you can check
> > out the debunking posts that I make as "esconsult1".
> >
> > Yes, perhaps Postgresql needs a central org that manages press and so
> > on, but we know that we dont get the press that MySQL does, but quietly
> > in the background Postgresql is handling large important things.
> >
> > - Ericson Smith
> > Web Developer
> > Db Admin
> > http://www.did-it.com
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org
>
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
Hi everyone, As an additional point of interest, we're still processing all of the Case Study submissions received from the last call around February, and should be beginning translations within the next week or two. There is a lot of very good news contained in the submissions, and they will definitely assist in bringing into the open just how good a database system and Community we truly have. Hope everyone will be as amazed as I was at just where PostgreSQL is being used already. There are some very clued-in people out there. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Bruce Momjian wrote: > Done. Added to 1.15) How can I financially assist PostgreSQL? > > <P>Also, if you have a success story about PostgreSQL, please submit > it to our advocacy site at <a href="http://advocacy.postgresql.org"> > http://advocacy.postgresql.org</a>. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Shridhar Daithankar wrote: > >>Hi, >> >>We should probably put out an FAQ saying, if you have success story, please >>make a write-up and send to us at http://advocacy.postgresql.org. >> >> Shridhar >> >>On Tuesday 15 April 2003 18:42, Ericson Smith wrote: >> >>>As one of the top search engine campaign optimization companies in the >>>space, we here at Did-it.com have been using Postgresql for over a year >>>now. We had serious locking problems with MySQL and even switching to >>>their Innodb handler did not solve all the issues. >>> >>>As the DB administrator, I recommended we switch when it came time to >>>re-write our client platform. That we did, and we have not looked back. >>>We have millions of listings, keywords and we perform live visitor >>>tracking in our database. We capture on the order of about 1 million >>>visitors every day, with each hit making updates, selects and possibly >>>inserts. >>> >>>We could not have done this in mySQL. Basically when I see silly posts >>>over on Slashdot about MySQL being as good a sliced bread, you can check >>>out the debunking posts that I make as "esconsult1". >>> >>>Yes, perhaps Postgresql needs a central org that manages press and so >>>on, but we know that we dont get the press that MySQL does, but quietly >>>in the background Postgresql is handling large important things. >>> >>>- Ericson Smith >>>Web Developer >>>Db Admin >>>http://www.did-it.com >> >> >>---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- >>TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org >> > >