Thread: www.postgresql.org
while i certainly think the new PostgreSQL homepage is an improvement over the old, i'm just wondering: why the addition of ads? -tfo
On Mon, 2003-01-06 at 12:46, Thomas O'Connell wrote: > why the addition of ads? There were always ads on the mirror page at www.postgresql.org -- but I agree with you that the presence of ads in any form is not ideal. I raised the issue on -hackers yesterday, and it's being discussed ATM... Cheers, Neil -- Neil Conway <neilc@samurai.com> || PGP Key ID: DB3C29FC
Thomas O'Connell wrote: > while i certainly think the new PostgreSQL homepage is an improvement > over the old, i'm just wondering: > > why the addition of ads? > > -tfo Good work! Looks great! To whom do we owe thanks? Alan Gutierrez
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Alan Gutierrez wrote: > Thomas O'Connell wrote: > > while i certainly think the new PostgreSQL homepage is an improvement > > over the old, i'm just wondering: > > > > why the addition of ads? > > > > -tfo > > Good work! Looks great! To whom do we owe thanks? Its a work of a group of us, but the "hard coding" is mostly Dave Page's persistence in trying to match what we kept throwing at him ... :)
Folks, > There were always ads on the mirror page at www.postgresql.org -- but I > agree with you that the presence of ads in any form is not ideal. I > raised the issue on -hackers yesterday, and it's being discussed ATM... Personally, I'm in favor of ads if it is needed to offset the cost of hosting, and as long as the advertisers are companies which support Open Source. In fact, I was thinking of buying an ad myself. -- -Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
I don't like ads.... How about a vote.... The problem with Ads is who gets to decide what goes....where do we darw the lines, And all that greed vs solution for the sake of solution comes in... The Operating Expenses needs to be solved a different way....including tax deductable contributioins.... Josh Berkus wrote: >Folks, > > > >>There were always ads on the mirror page at www.postgresql.org -- but I >>agree with you that the presence of ads in any form is not ideal. I >>raised the issue on -hackers yesterday, and it's being discussed ATM... >> >> > >Personally, I'm in favor of ads if it is needed to offset the cost of hosting, >and as long as the advertisers are companies which support Open Source. > >In fact, I was thinking of buying an ad myself. > > >
Seems like we should let the core developers decide... perhaps they could create a small (3 peson) "ad board" that would decide... I agree it would be nicer not to have them and if everyone donated, but not everyone does, so if this helps offset costs, I'm all for it... -philip On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Medi Montaseri wrote: > I don't like ads.... > > How about a vote.... > > The problem with Ads is who gets to decide what goes....where do we darw > the lines, > And all that greed vs solution for the sake of solution comes in... > The Operating Expenses needs to be solved a different way....including > tax deductable > contributioins.... > > Josh Berkus wrote: > > >Folks, > > > > > > > >>There were always ads on the mirror page at www.postgresql.org -- but I > >>agree with you that the presence of ads in any form is not ideal. I > >>raised the issue on -hackers yesterday, and it's being discussed ATM... > >> > >> > > > >Personally, I'm in favor of ads if it is needed to offset the cost of hosting, > >and as long as the advertisers are companies which support Open Source. > > > >In fact, I was thinking of buying an ad myself. > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate > subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your > message can get through to the mailing list cleanly >
Ok we vote and that who vote against it are paying the costs no problem from that point of view And with that opinion: "other sites don't have banners" www.postgresql.org is no other site. If we can improve webpages with the income of the ads why not. All talk about marketing ... ADS ARE SOME KIND OF MARKETING It's an honor that someone wants to place ads on a site cause then the site is viewed by many people. regards Ewald Medi Montaseri schrieb: > I don't like ads.... > > How about a vote.... > > The problem with Ads is who gets to decide what goes....where do we > darw the lines, > And all that greed vs solution for the sake of solution comes in... > The Operating Expenses needs to be solved a different way....including > tax deductable > contributioins.... > > Josh Berkus wrote: > >> Folks, >> >> >> >>> There were always ads on the mirror page at www.postgresql.org -- but I >>> agree with you that the presence of ads in any form is not ideal. I >>> raised the issue on -hackers yesterday, and it's being discussed ATM... >>> >> >> >> Personally, I'm in favor of ads if it is needed to offset the cost of >> hosting, and as long as the advertisers are companies which support >> Open Source. >> >> In fact, I was thinking of buying an ad myself. >> >> >> > > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? > > http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html > >
I would be more than happy to pay into a paypal or some other account to cover hosting costs for the www.postgresql.org site. I'm sure many others would feel the same way. Cheers, Gavin Ewald Geschwinde wrote: > Ok we vote and that who vote against it are paying the costs > no problem from that point of view > > > And with that opinion: "other sites don't have banners" > www.postgresql.org is no other site. > If we can improve webpages with the income of the ads why not. > All talk about marketing ... ADS ARE SOME KIND OF MARKETING > > It's an honor that someone wants to place ads on a site cause then the > site is viewed by many people. > > regards Ewald > > > Medi Montaseri schrieb: > >> I don't like ads.... >> >> How about a vote.... >> >> The problem with Ads is who gets to decide what goes....where do we >> darw the lines, >> And all that greed vs solution for the sake of solution comes in... >> The Operating Expenses needs to be solved a different >> way....including tax deductable >> contributioins.... >> >> Josh Berkus wrote: >> >>> Folks, >>> >>> >>> >>>> There were always ads on the mirror page at www.postgresql.org -- >>>> but I >>>> agree with you that the presence of ads in any form is not ideal. I >>>> raised the issue on -hackers yesterday, and it's being discussed >>>> ATM... >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Personally, I'm in favor of ads if it is needed to offset the cost >>> of hosting, and as long as the advertisers are companies which >>> support Open Source. >>> >>> In fact, I was thinking of buying an ad myself. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- >> TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? >> >> http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html >> >> > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command > (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org) >
For my 5c, and as a web developer and recent Postgresql convert. ;-) People go to websites for the content and information available. If the Postgresql environment and community can improve its ability to come across to a wider audience by improving its main website and making their point clearer and information easier to access, then I think the "visibility" of advertisements is a small price to pay. I think it's a marked over the previous iteration. It appears well ordered, its pleasent to the eye, and the advertisements are subtle than intrusive. Well done people. Hadley. On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 08:53, Philip Hallstrom wrote: > Seems like we should let the core developers decide... perhaps they could > create a small (3 peson) "ad board" that would decide... > > I agree it would be nicer not to have them and if everyone donated, but > not everyone does, so if this helps offset costs, I'm all for it... > > -philip > > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Medi Montaseri wrote: > > > I don't like ads.... > > > > How about a vote.... > > > > The problem with Ads is who gets to decide what goes....where do we darw > > the lines, > > And all that greed vs solution for the sake of solution comes in... > > The Operating Expenses needs to be solved a different way....including > > tax deductable > > contributioins.... > > > > Josh Berkus wrote: > > > > >Folks, > > > > > > > > > > > >>There were always ads on the mirror page at www.postgresql.org -- but I > > >>agree with you that the presence of ads in any form is not ideal. I > > >>raised the issue on -hackers yesterday, and it's being discussed ATM... > > >> > > >> > > > > > >Personally, I'm in favor of ads if it is needed to offset the cost of hosting, > > >and as long as the advertisers are companies which support Open Source. > > > > > >In fact, I was thinking of buying an ad myself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > > TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate > > subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your > > message can get through to the mailing list cleanly > > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? > > http://archives.postgresql.org -- Hadley Willan > Systems Development > Deeper Design Limited. +64(7)377-3328 hadley.willan@deeperdesign.co.nz > www.deeperdesign.com > +64(21)-28-41-463 Level 1, 4 Tamamutu St, PO Box 90, TAUPO 2730, New Zealand.
Folks, Currently, Hub.org, the ISP, donates hosting services for the PostgreSQL.org "master" site. As the donor, they set the terms under which hosting is provided, including ads, and we can only ask politely for a change. If people feel strongly about the adds, I suggest the following: 1) That someone solicit for firm pledges to donate toward hosting costs. 2) Once enough has been collected to pay for one year of hosting, approach Hub.org and suggest that they switch from ad-supported to donation-supported. 3) Collect the pledges, and *then* switch over. Bruce Momjian did solicit for hosting donations over a year ago, before we had the ads. As far as I know, I was the only person to donate. So please don't be hasty to dispose other people's property. -- -Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco P.S.: please let's *not* do this by Paypal -- at least one OS project has had their account cleaned out by Paypal.
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Josh Berkus wrote: > Bruce Momjian did solicit for hosting donations over a year ago, before > we had the ads. As far as I know, I was the only person to donate. So > please don't be hasty to dispose other people's property. Actually, Bruce always steps up to the plate as well ... We had setup the whole PgMerchandise stuff as a means to provide ppl with an easy mechanism to support, as well as advertise to, PostgreSQL ... but ppl only need sooooo many t-shirts :) So that avenue of offsetting costs has been kinda dry the past few months ... We're currently in the process of setting up shop in a co-lo, vs dedicated server ... we pay for/own the server itself, and only pay for the "space" ... if all goes well, and growth continues (or picks up) on the hosting side such that the postgresql servers aren't >50% of our bandwidth, then we'll most likely be able to drop off the banners :) Trust me ... we are working on it ...
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > We had setup the whole PgMerchandise stuff as a means to provide ppl with > an easy mechanism to support, as well as advertise to, PostgreSQL ... but > ppl only need sooooo many t-shirts :) So that avenue of offsetting costs > has been kinda dry the past few months ... Speaking of which, I didn't see this at www.postgresql.com. Did I miss it? I'd like to get some more key fobs and mugs. Not a tee-shirt kind of guy. :-) Rod -- "Open Source Software - Sometimes you get more than you paid for..."
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Roderick A. Anderson wrote: > On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > We had setup the whole PgMerchandise stuff as a means to provide ppl with > > an easy mechanism to support, as well as advertise to, PostgreSQL ... but > > ppl only need sooooo many t-shirts :) So that avenue of offsetting costs > > has been kinda dry the past few months ... > > Speaking of which, I didn't see this at www.postgresql.com. Did I miss > it? I'd like to get some more key fobs and mugs. Not a tee-shirt kind of > guy. :-) *groan* now there could be another good reason why things have drop'd off :( Check out: http://store.pgsql.com I've heard whisperings that there are some problems with it, but nobody has ever reported anything directly to me, so if you find problems, please let me know so that we can get them fixed ...
> We had setup the whole PgMerchandise stuff as a means to provide ppl with > an easy mechanism to support, as well as advertise to, PostgreSQL ... but > ppl only need sooooo many t-shirts :) So that avenue of offsetting costs > has been kinda dry the past few months ... I might help if there were actually photos of the t-shirts on store.pgsql.com... Chris
I'm in favour of ads if the ads actually generate net benefit to pgsql. e.g. If they pay only for clickthroughs it's usually not worth having ads[1]. Or the ads use more bandwidth than they pay for. The new site has broken links to docs: http://techdocs.postgresql.org/ ->User's Lounge -> Released docs: http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/ <- broken. The new site also has a broken link to User's lounge - it goes to mirrors. New site needs link to store.pgsql.com Link. [1] Not very likely that people will click on "Harmony Cruises" when they are very busy looking for Postgresql info. They may remember the name for later, but not click through. At 11:05 AM 1/6/03 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: >Personally, I'm in favor of ads if it is needed to offset the cost of >hosting, >and as long as the advertisers are companies which support Open Source. > >In fact, I was thinking of buying an ad myself. > >-- >-Josh Berkus > Aglio Database Solutions > San Francisco > > >---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- >TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Yeah, At Troubleshooters.Com, our experience is that hosting ads isn't worth it. Word is out that ads are so ineffective, that people are unwilling to pay even a penny per impression. Perhaps you could have third parties host small (5 paragraph) essays, with a link to their website. Bandwidth is about the same as a banner ad, but the essay, if written right, goes a long way to giving the author credibility. At the bottom of the essay (or maybe at the top) is a link to their commercial web page. I think that type of advertising might be effective enough to draw revenue. All essays should be valuable to the reader whether or not he or she purchases the product. But of course, you'll learn/get a lot more if you purchase the product. Steve -- Steve Litt Author: * Universal Troubleshooting Process courseware * Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist * Rapid Learning: Secret Weapon of the Successful Technologist Webmaster * Troubleshooters.Com * http://www.troubleshooters.com (Legal Disclaimer) Follow these suggestions at your own risk. On Tuesday 07 January 2003 10:00 am, Lincoln Yeoh wrote: > I'm in favour of ads if the ads actually generate net benefit to pgsql. > e.g. If they pay only for clickthroughs it's usually not worth having > ads[1]. Or the ads use more bandwidth than they pay for. > > The new site has broken links to docs: > > http://techdocs.postgresql.org/ ->User's Lounge -> Released docs: > > http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/ <- broken. > > The new site also has a broken link to User's lounge - it goes to mirrors. > > New site needs link to store.pgsql.com > > Link. > > [1] Not very likely that people will click on "Harmony Cruises" when they > are very busy looking for Postgresql info. They may remember the name for > later, but not click through. > > At 11:05 AM 1/6/03 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > >Personally, I'm in favor of ads if it is needed to offset the cost of > >hosting, > >and as long as the advertisers are companies which support Open Source. > > > >In fact, I was thinking of buying an ad myself. > > > >-- > >-Josh Berkus > > Aglio Database Solutions > > San Francisco > > > > > >---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > >TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command > (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org)
On 7 Jan 2003 at 10:49, Steve Litt wrote: > At Troubleshooters.Com, our experience is that hosting ads isn't worth it. > Word is out that ads are so ineffective, that people are unwilling to pay > even a penny per impression. My experience running freebsddiary.org, freshports.org, and freshsource.org differs from that of the above. > Perhaps you could have third parties host small (5 paragraph) essays, with a > link to their website. Bandwidth is about the same as a banner ad, but the > essay, if written right, goes a long way to giving the author credibility. At > the bottom of the essay (or maybe at the top) is a link to their commercial > web page. I think that type of advertising might be effective enough to draw > revenue. > > All essays should be valuable to the reader whether or not he or she purchases > the product. But of course, you'll learn/get a lot more if you purchase the > product. I think that those who are objecting to ads on the site should follow the suggestion given by Josh Berkus at http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/2003-01/msg00191.php In other words, stop providing suggestions as to what can be done. Get off your own ass and do it. In short, put up or shut up. -- Dan Langille : http://www.langille.org/
Working on it ... didn't know until you wrote this that we didn't have any :( Have taken the pics, just in the process of moving, so haven't been able to find my cable for my camera :( On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: > > We had setup the whole PgMerchandise stuff as a means to provide ppl with > > an easy mechanism to support, as well as advertise to, PostgreSQL ... but > > ppl only need sooooo many t-shirts :) So that avenue of offsetting costs > > has been kinda dry the past few months ... > > I might help if there were actually photos of the t-shirts on > store.pgsql.com... > > Chris > >