Thread: Press coverage for 9.1 Beta
So far: http://www.cio.com.au/article/384968/open_source_postgresql_9_1_beta_released/ http://lwn.net/Articles/440666/ (subscriber-only content) http://www.databasejournal.com/features/postgresql/article.php/3932351/PostgreSQL-91-Gets-Synchronous.htm -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:40 AM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: > So far: > > http://www.cio.com.au/article/384968/open_source_postgresql_9_1_beta_released/ > > http://lwn.net/Articles/440666/ (subscriber-only content) > > http://www.databasejournal.com/features/postgresql/article.php/3932351/PostgreSQL-91-Gets-Synchronous.htm I have to wonder why these mention PGXN given that at the moment it's just a download site, providing similar functionality to software catalog on www.postgresql.org. When there is a command line client available, then sure, it should be promoted, but until then it's a WIP (I would say vapourware, but I that seems unfair, as I know David certainly is working on it). We shouldn't be promoting features for which the primary feature isn't yet written in our major version release announcements imnsho. -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Le 03/05/2011 10:24, Dave Page a écrit : > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:40 AM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: >> So far: >> >> http://www.cio.com.au/article/384968/open_source_postgresql_9_1_beta_released/ >> >> http://lwn.net/Articles/440666/ (subscriber-only content) >> >> http://www.databasejournal.com/features/postgresql/article.php/3932351/PostgreSQL-91-Gets-Synchronous.htm > > I have to wonder why these mention PGXN given that at the moment it's > just a download site, providing similar functionality to software > catalog on www.postgresql.org. > > When there is a command line client available, then sure, it should be > promoted, but until then it's a WIP (I would say vapourware, but I > that seems unfair, as I know David certainly is working on it). We > shouldn't be promoting features for which the primary feature isn't > yet written in our major version release announcements imnsho. > A command line client written by Daniele Varrazzo is available here: https://github.com/dvarrazzo/pgxnclient You can install it by typing : $ easy_install pgxnclient More info on the blog : http://blog.pgxn.org/post/5118152273/new-release-for-the-pgxn-client -- damien clochard dalibo.com | dalibo.org
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 11:25 AM, damien clochard <damien@dalibo.info> wrote: > Le 03/05/2011 10:24, Dave Page a écrit : >> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:40 AM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: >>> So far: >>> >>> http://www.cio.com.au/article/384968/open_source_postgresql_9_1_beta_released/ >>> >>> http://lwn.net/Articles/440666/ (subscriber-only content) >>> >>> http://www.databasejournal.com/features/postgresql/article.php/3932351/PostgreSQL-91-Gets-Synchronous.htm >> >> I have to wonder why these mention PGXN given that at the moment it's >> just a download site, providing similar functionality to software >> catalog on www.postgresql.org. >> >> When there is a command line client available, then sure, it should be >> promoted, but until then it's a WIP (I would say vapourware, but I >> that seems unfair, as I know David certainly is working on it). We >> shouldn't be promoting features for which the primary feature isn't >> yet written in our major version release announcements imnsho. >> > > A command line client written by Daniele Varrazzo is available here: > https://github.com/dvarrazzo/pgxnclient Is it a supported client? The pgxn website says there isn't one. > You can install it by typing : > $ easy_install pgxnclient Hmm, unfortunately it doesn't seem to work too well. I tried installing both pg_top and pg_proctab, and both errored out. Not sure whose fault that is though, and don't really have time to investigate now. -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Le 03/05/2011 12:40, Dave Page a écrit : > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 11:25 AM, damien clochard <damien@dalibo.info> wrote: >> Le 03/05/2011 10:24, Dave Page a écrit : >>> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:40 AM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: >>>> So far: >>>> >>>> http://www.cio.com.au/article/384968/open_source_postgresql_9_1_beta_released/ >>>> >>>> http://lwn.net/Articles/440666/ (subscriber-only content) >>>> >>>> http://www.databasejournal.com/features/postgresql/article.php/3932351/PostgreSQL-91-Gets-Synchronous.htm >>> >>> I have to wonder why these mention PGXN given that at the moment it's >>> just a download site, providing similar functionality to software >>> catalog on www.postgresql.org. >>> >>> When there is a command line client available, then sure, it should be >>> promoted, but until then it's a WIP (I would say vapourware, but I >>> that seems unfair, as I know David certainly is working on it). We >>> shouldn't be promoting features for which the primary feature isn't >>> yet written in our major version release announcements imnsho. >>> >> >> A command line client written by Daniele Varrazzo is available here: >> https://github.com/dvarrazzo/pgxnclient > > Is it a supported client? The pgxn website says there isn't one. > Indeed the website is outdated. The blog and the official twitter account are very clear though : http://blog.pgxn.org/post/5118152273/new-release-for-the-pgxn-client http://twitter.com/#!/pgxn/status/64856551160168448 >> You can install it by typing : >> $ easy_install pgxnclient > > Hmm, unfortunately it doesn't seem to work too well. I tried > installing both pg_top and pg_proctab, and both errored out. Not sure > whose fault that is though, and don't really have time to investigate > now. > To my knwoledge the problem with pg_top is being investigated by Mark Wong. Whati understand is that it seems to be a Makefile problem. Anyway, this PGXN client may have some bugs but it's far from being a WIP or vaporware ;-) -- damien clochard dalibo.com | dalibo.org
On Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:24:53 am Dave Page wrote: > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:40 AM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: > > So far: > > > > http://www.cio.com.au/article/384968/open_source_postgresql_9_1_beta_rele > > ased/ > > > > http://lwn.net/Articles/440666/ (subscriber-only content) > > > > http://www.databasejournal.com/features/postgresql/article.php/3932351/Po > > stgreSQL-91-Gets-Synchronous.htm > > I have to wonder why these mention PGXN given that at the moment it's > just a download site, providing similar functionality to software > catalog on www.postgresql.org. > > When there is a command line client available, then sure, it should be > promoted, but until then it's a WIP (I would say vapourware, but I > that seems unfair, as I know David certainly is working on it). Well the same could be said about SQL/MED and SE-postgres, both new items at the just getting started stage:) > We > shouldn't be promoting features for which the primary feature isn't > yet written in our major version release announcements imnsho. -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@gmail.com
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:26 PM, Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:24:53 am Dave Page wrote: >> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:40 AM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: >> > So far: >> > >> > http://www.cio.com.au/article/384968/open_source_postgresql_9_1_beta_rele >> > ased/ >> > >> > http://lwn.net/Articles/440666/ (subscriber-only content) >> > >> > http://www.databasejournal.com/features/postgresql/article.php/3932351/Po >> > stgreSQL-91-Gets-Synchronous.htm >> >> I have to wonder why these mention PGXN given that at the moment it's >> just a download site, providing similar functionality to software >> catalog on www.postgresql.org. >> >> When there is a command line client available, then sure, it should be >> promoted, but until then it's a WIP (I would say vapourware, but I >> that seems unfair, as I know David certainly is working on it). > > Well the same could be said about SQL/MED and SE-postgres, both new items at the > just getting started stage:) Putting aside the fact that Damien pointed out that the PGXN website is out of date (and therefore so is my information on the lack of a cli), no, those are not the same. The code for both projects is there in 9.1 and can be used for production applications. Those two features are in no way vapourware, nor are they a WIP, at least as far as the feature set for this release is concerned. -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Le 03/05/2011 15:49, Dave Page a écrit : > On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:26 PM, Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Tuesday, May 03, 2011 1:24:53 am Dave Page wrote: >>> On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:40 AM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: >>>> So far: >>>> >>>> http://www.cio.com.au/article/384968/open_source_postgresql_9_1_beta_rele >>>> ased/ >>>> >>>> http://lwn.net/Articles/440666/ (subscriber-only content) >>>> >>>> http://www.databasejournal.com/features/postgresql/article.php/3932351/Po >>>> stgreSQL-91-Gets-Synchronous.htm >>> >>> I have to wonder why these mention PGXN given that at the moment it's >>> just a download site, providing similar functionality to software >>> catalog on www.postgresql.org. >>> >>> When there is a command line client available, then sure, it should be >>> promoted, but until then it's a WIP (I would say vapourware, but I >>> that seems unfair, as I know David certainly is working on it). >> >> Well the same could be said about SQL/MED and SE-postgres, both new items at the >> just getting started stage:) > > Putting aside the fact that Damien pointed out that the PGXN website > is out of date (and therefore so is my information on the lack of a > cli), no, those are not the same. The code for both projects is there > in 9.1 and can be used for production applications. Those two features > are in no way vapourware, nor are they a WIP, at least as far as the > feature set for this release is concerned. > Dave, I don't understand your last sentence. Are you still thinking that PGXN client is vaporware or WIP ? Personnaly, I think PGXN will be available for production server after some beta tests. Just like SQL/MED and SE-postgres. I don't see why you are being so harsh on PGXN. Frankly i don't understand your point. While we're encouraging people to test the 9.1beta1 why not pointing them the PGXN project, as it needs beta testers too ? In fact when you're testing PGXN, you're also testing PostgreSQL Extensions, right ? ;-) -- damien clochard dalibo.com | dalibo.org
On Tuesday, May 03, 2011 6:49:30 am Dave Page wrote: > > Putting aside the fact that Damien pointed out that the PGXN website > is out of date (and therefore so is my information on the lack of a > cli), no, those are not the same. The code for both projects is there > in 9.1 and can be used for production applications. Those two features > are in no way vapourware, nor are they a WIP, at least as far as the > feature set for this release is concerned. The same applies to PGXN, the framework is there and people are using it, I fail to see the distinction. -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@gmail.com
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:08 PM, damien clochard <damien@dalibo.info> wrote: >> Putting aside the fact that Damien pointed out that the PGXN website >> is out of date (and therefore so is my information on the lack of a >> cli), no, those are not the same. The code for both projects is there >> in 9.1 and can be used for production applications. Those two features >> are in no way vapourware, nor are they a WIP, at least as far as the >> feature set for this release is concerned. >> > > Dave, > > I don't understand your last sentence. Are you still thinking that PGXN > client is vaporware or WIP ? No - as I said, "putting aside the fact that Damien pointed out that the PGXN website is out of date" > Personnaly, I think PGXN will be available for production server after > some beta tests. Just like SQL/MED and SE-postgres. I don't see why you > are being so harsh on PGXN. Frankly i don't understand your point. My point originally was that according to the PGXN website, the client doesn't exist and therefore we shouldn't be publicising the feature until it does. You pointed out the the website was out of date, and the client does exist. Therefore, I have no objection to mentioning the feature. -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tuesday, May 03, 2011 6:49:30 am Dave Page wrote: > >> >> Putting aside the fact that Damien pointed out that the PGXN website >> is out of date (and therefore so is my information on the lack of a >> cli), no, those are not the same. The code for both projects is there >> in 9.1 and can be used for production applications. Those two features >> are in no way vapourware, nor are they a WIP, at least as far as the >> feature set for this release is concerned. > > > The same applies to PGXN, the framework is there and people are using it, I fail > to see the distinction. <sigh> Because according to the PGXN website, there isn't a client interface yet, making it no more useful that the software catalog on the main project website - eg. vapourware, as far as the primary intended purpose is concerned. Damien pointed out that the PGXN website is out of date, and there is now a command line client, so my objection is withdrawn. -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Josh Berkus, 03.05.2011 03:40: > So far: > > http://www.cio.com.au/article/384968/open_source_postgresql_9_1_beta_released/ > > http://lwn.net/Articles/440666/ (subscriber-only content) > > http://www.databasejournal.com/features/postgresql/article.php/3932351/PostgreSQL-91-Gets-Synchronous.htm > There is one from the german publisher "Heise": http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Beta-von-PostgreSQL-9-1-bringt-synchrone-Replikation-1236154.html Interesting enough there is some discussion on the "serializable" feature. It seems the real meaning of this is not understood widely. Among other things there was one comment along the lines: "That's the way Oracle's serializable works". Thomas
Thomas Kellerer wrote: > There is one from the german publisher "Heise": > > http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Beta-von-PostgreSQL-9-1-bringt-synchrone-Replikation-1236154.html > > Interesting enough there is some discussion on the "serializable" > feature. It seems the real meaning of this is not understood > widely. Among other things there was one comment along the lines: > "That's the way Oracle's serializable works". The comments following that article do go pretty wild. My German is pretty rudimentary (I had to use an online translator to fill in a lot of blanks I didn't follow reading the German directly). Could one of our native speakers address these comments? Here are the main points that seem to me to need clarification: (1) The implementation the serializable isolation level is standard-compliant, which requires more than the absence of the three phenomena in the chart. See the paragraph containing the words "serial execution" (in the English version), and the note under the chart of phenomena and isolation levels. For an example: http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~shadow/sql/sql1992.txt (2) Before 9.1 it is not compliant -- not because of the phenomena listed in the standard, but because the standard doesn't define serializable transactions in terms of those phenomena. Certain well-known serialization anomalies are possible with the snapshot isolation we previously used when serializable transaction isolation was requested. (3) Oracle does not provide a standard compliant implementation. (4) Outside of some unproven theoretical techniques which exist only in academic papers, no technique of providing true serializable transactions does so without the possibility of serialization failures. In particular, Strong Strict 2 Phase Locking (SS2PL) implementations (the only technique in widespread until now) is vulnerable not only to deadlocks, but blocking. Even snapshot isolation can have serialization failures. (5) The person who tried serializable transaction isolation in some other product and gave up on it immediately because of the high levels of blocking and deadlocks might want to give this implementation a try -- it has no blocking beyond what is present in snapshot isolation, and not chance of deadlocks. The serialization failure rate might still be more than they can tolerate, but it might be worth testing -- especially if they can easily remove whatever is currently protecting their data integrity instead. -Kevin
Dave, all, www.pgxn.org was mentioned in my press briefing in the description of the extensions feature. The reason for doing thisis that it's visceral. Reporters cannot get excited about packaging, which is basically what Extensions are (yes, packagingis very difficult and very useful, but reporters don't care). They can get excited about a website full of extensions. -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com San Francisco
Kevin Grittner, 03.05.2011 18:09: > http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Beta-von-PostgreSQL-9-1-bringt-synchrone-Replikation-1236154.html >> >> Interesting enough there is some discussion on the "serializable" >> feature. It seems the real meaning of this is not understood >> widely. Among other things there was one comment along the lines: >> "That's the way Oracle's serializable works". > > The comments following that article do go pretty wild. > > My German is pretty rudimentary (I had to use an online translator to > fill in a lot of blanks I didn't follow reading the German directly). > Could one of our native speakers address these comments? Actually the forum there is know to attract a lot of trolls, so I'm not sure if anyone there would bother reading a soundtechnical explanation of the technology and its implementation in PostgreSQL. I mentioned this only because I recall some discussions here on the list whether this should be pointed out as one of themajor new features ore not. Regards Thomas
More: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/PostgreSQL-9-1-beta-adds-synchronous-replication-1236505.html -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com
All, A very nice, in-depth article from Rodney Gedda: http://www.cio.com.au/article/385565/postgresql_devs_lift_open_source_database_enterprise_heights/ And some coverage from Information Week: http://mobile.informationweek.com/10243/show/81fc6af19ee2d8a2847fd299e7590fa0&t=20ea43ec3809defbca4277c501cc05d3 -- Josh Berkus PostgreSQL Experts Inc. http://pgexperts.com San Francisco
Joshua Berkus wrote: > Dave, all, > > www.pgxn.org was mentioned in my press briefing in the description of > the extensions feature. The reason for doing this is that it's > visceral. Reporters cannot get excited about packaging, which is > basically what Extensions are (yes, packaging is very difficult and > very useful, but reporters don't care). They can get excited about > a website full of extensions. I will echo that it is tricky to figure out what types of information press reporters can digest. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + It's impossible for everything to be true. +