Thread: Proposal for a PostgreSQL Print Magazine
hi guys, Here's a long time idea that came back to me while i was at FOSDEM... When we're on a PostgreSQL booth, apart from the stuff we sell we don't have much content to giveaway. There's the traditional PostgreSQL leaflet, which is good for people who don't know what Postgres is. But on the booth, we also meet long-time PostgreSQL users that already know the project. These people are not database geeks or whatever, they are basically developpers or sysadmins who like PG... Most of the times they have because « PostgreSQL works fine » or « the doc is awesome » . They stop by the booth to say hi, grab a T-Shirt or a mus and usually they just want to know "what's new ?" in our community... I think that would be great to have a print media to keep in touch with this large user base, because these are the folks that will recommend PostgreSQL to their clients, co-workers, directors, etc. From our experience in France, Guillaume Lelarge has been writing PostgreSQL articles in the Gnu/Linux France Magazine for more than 2 years now. These articles are extremely popular in France because they're user-oriented and newbie friendly ( although PostgreSQL die-hards seem to like it too :) Thus my idea of a PostgreSQL dedicated magazine that could be downloaded and printed easily... The main version would be in English but local PUGs could translate it and use it on booth and events... Note that i'm not inventing anything here, i'm just taking example on the Ubuntu et Fedora community magazines : http://fullcirclemagazine.org/ http://mag.fedora-fr.org Anyway such a project requires a lot of time and energy. I've talked about this magazine to some people inside and outside the community and most people said that before launching such a project , it's necessary to have a "beta version" or a "demo" of what the magazine would look like. Just to see how many potential readers grab it on booths or download it... And of course try to get some feedback. So basically i'm not starting the whole project, i'm just calling for help to create a draft of the magazine. Let's call it "issue #0" :) In a nutshell, here's what the content could look like : Editorial : News : Events : info+photos from the latest conferences Happy Users : one relevant use case How To : zoom on a specific feature (PITR, FTS, ...) Interview : Rendez-vous with a PostgreSQL hacker Road to 9.1 : new features coming soon Extensions : review of various contrib/modules Tips & tricks : All in all, this could give a 16 to 24 pages magazine. Of course there's still tons of things to decide like : the frequency, logo, format, licence, title, tools, layout, fonts, etc. If you want to participate to this "issue #0", you're welcome ! It requires times, but no particular skills or previous experience in the media. If you're interested by a print media for the PostgreSQL user base, this project is for you :) Just send me an e-mail at damien@dalibo.info -- damien clochard dalibo.com | dalibo.org -
Hi Damian, It sounds super cool! I love your idea. I want to contribute to the magazine, and I think many Japanese people can contribute before/after publishing with writing articles and translating the magazine into Japanese. Regards, On 2011/03/11 7:53, damien clochard wrote: > hi guys, > > Here's a long time idea that came back to me while i was at FOSDEM... > > When we're on a PostgreSQL booth, apart from the stuff we sell we > don't have much content to giveaway. There's the traditional PostgreSQL > leaflet, which is good for people who don't know what Postgres is. But > on the booth, we also meet long-time PostgreSQL users that already know > the project. These people are not database geeks or whatever, they are > basically developpers or sysadmins who like PG... Most of the times they > have because « PostgreSQL works fine » or « the doc is awesome » . They > stop by the booth to say hi, grab a T-Shirt or a mus and usually they > just want to know "what's new ?" in our community... > > I think that would be great to have a print media to keep in touch with > this large user base, because these are the folks that will recommend > PostgreSQL to their clients, co-workers, directors, etc. > >> From our experience in France, Guillaume Lelarge has been writing > PostgreSQL articles in the Gnu/Linux France Magazine for more than > 2 years now. These articles are extremely popular in France because > they're user-oriented and newbie friendly ( although PostgreSQL > die-hards seem to like it too :) > > Thus my idea of a PostgreSQL dedicated magazine that could be downloaded > and printed easily... The main version would be in English but local > PUGs could translate it and use it on booth and events... Note that i'm > not inventing anything here, i'm just taking example on the Ubuntu et > Fedora community magazines : > > http://fullcirclemagazine.org/ > http://mag.fedora-fr.org > > Anyway such a project requires a lot of time and energy. I've talked > about this magazine to some people inside and outside the community and > most people said that before launching such a project , it's necessary > to have a "beta version" or a "demo" of what the magazine would look > like. Just to see how many potential readers grab it on booths or > download it... And of course try to get some feedback. > > So basically i'm not starting the whole project, i'm just calling for > help to create a draft of the magazine. Let's call it "issue #0" :) > > In a nutshell, here's what the content could look like : > > Editorial : > News : > Events : info+photos from the latest conferences > Happy Users : one relevant use case > How To : zoom on a specific feature (PITR, FTS, ...) > Interview : Rendez-vous with a PostgreSQL hacker > Road to 9.1 : new features coming soon > Extensions : review of various contrib/modules > Tips& tricks : > > All in all, this could give a 16 to 24 pages magazine. > > Of course there's still tons of things to decide like : the frequency, > logo, format, licence, title, tools, layout, fonts, etc. If you want to > participate to this "issue #0", you're welcome ! It requires times, but > no particular skills or previous experience in the media. > > If you're interested by a print media for the PostgreSQL user base, this > project is for you :) Just send me an e-mail at damien@dalibo.info > > > -- NAGAYASU Satoshi <satoshi.nagayasu@gmail.com>
Greetings, precisely because these days I was designing some logos for the same idea a postgresql magazine in Spanish. But the important thing is that the journal exists in print in several languages. The magazine is a necessity, without it very difficult to see the Diffusion of postgresql. Coincidentally I was thinking about who could write articles for the magazine, my idea was to create a magazine for Colombia, but if we develop a global magazine, why not do it ..
It requires an editor, not just writers, to make it work > Greetings, precisely because these days I was designing some logos for the > same idea a postgresql magazine in Spanish. But the important thing is that > the journal exists in print in several languages. The magazine is a > necessity, without it very difficult to see the Diffusion of postgresql. > Coincidentally I was thinking about who could write articles for the > magazine, my idea was to create a magazine for Colombia, but if we develop > a global magazine, why not do it ..
Hi Le 12/03/2011 16:29, Robert Bernier a écrit : > It requires an editor, not just writers, to make it work > Yes the editing job is more complex than finding content. This is why it is interesting to d it once for the english version and then let local users translate the file in their own language. Of course, local translations team will need a guy that can play with Scribus but the skills required are very basic because only a few textbox will need to be adapted or resized... 98% of the layout won't change. > >> Greetings, precisely because these days I was designing some logos for the >> same idea a postgresql magazine in Spanish. But the important thing is that >> the journal exists in print in several languages. The magazine is a >> necessity, without it very difficult to see the Diffusion of postgresql. >> Coincidentally I was thinking about who could write articles for the >> magazine, my idea was to create a magazine for Colombia, but if we develop >> a global magazine, why not do it .. > Actually in the first place, i wanted to create the magazine in French ( my mother tongue ) but i realized it's a bad idea. It's much more easier to find articles in English, aggregate them and afterwards translate the whole magazine. That way we can do collaborative work on the english version and then each local is responsible of the translation. To give an idea : I think that with an average translation team of 3-4 persons, a full translation can be achieved in 4 weeks. -- damien clochard dalibo.com | dalibo.org
On 3/10/11 2:53 PM, damien clochard wrote:
> I think that would be great to have a print media to keep in touch with
> this large user base, because these are the folks that will recommend
> PostgreSQL to their clients, co-workers, directors, etc.
Everything else being equal, this is a cool idea.
However, the biggest issue for this is getting enough writers. We don't
have that many people in our community who can write well, and those we
do have, have multiple demands for writing on their time (I myself am
backlogged a couple months for two publications).
Realistically, we'd need to pay writers as well as the editor and the
editor/translators. It is unclear on how we would do this initially;
SPI has a precedent of not paying for people's time, and US, EU and JP
only pay for things in their respective countries. Once we had regular
publication, we could solicit donations from advertisers.
I'd think that 3 to 4 issues per year would be sufficient.
To sum up, the drawbacks to doing this are:
a) would take writing time away from general publications which reach
new users
b) printing costs/waste
c) unclear on how to pay for the first issue
d) currently no volunteer as editor
The advantages are:
e) nice piece of swag for conferences
f) gets writing done which can be reused for other portions of
PostgreSQL.org (i.e. case studies)
g) potential new source of fundraising
An alternative option to all of the above would be some kind of fund to
get people to write articles for PWN, which already gets published
regularly and has international translation. Then the last weeks' issue
could simply be cleaned up and formatted just before each conference.
--
-- Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://www.pgexperts.com
On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 15:00 -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: > On 3/10/11 2:53 PM, damien clochard wrote: > > I think that would be great to have a print media to keep in touch with > > this large user base, because these are the folks that will recommend > > PostgreSQL to their clients, co-workers, directors, etc. > > Everything else being equal, this is a cool idea. > > However, the biggest issue for this is getting enough writers. We don't > have that many people in our community who can write well, and those we > do have, have multiple demands for writing on their time (I myself am > backlogged a couple months for two publications). > > Realistically, we'd need to pay writers as well as the editor and the > editor/translators. It is unclear on how we would do this initially; > SPI has a precedent of not paying for people's time, We may however play flat fees for educational material. > and US, EU and JP > only pay for things in their respective countries. Once we had regular > publication, we could solicit donations from advertisers. I don't know about EU and JP but I know that US would probably be interested in this as part of their grant process. JD -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 509.416.6579 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering http://twitter.com/cmdpromptinc | http://identi.ca/commandprompt
El lun, 14-03-2011 a las 15:00 -0700, Josh Berkus escribió: > On 3/10/11 2:53 PM, damien clochard wrote: > > I think that would be great to have a print media to keep in touch with > > this large user base, because these are the folks that will recommend > > PostgreSQL to their clients, co-workers, directors, etc. > > Everything else being equal, this is a cool idea. > > However, the biggest issue for this is getting enough writers. We don't > have that many people in our community who can write well, and those we > do have, have multiple demands for writing on their time (I myself am > backlogged a couple months for two publications). > > Realistically, we'd need to pay writers as well as the editor and the > editor/translators. It is unclear on how we would do this initially; > SPI has a precedent of not paying for people's time, and US, EU and JP > only pay for things in their respective countries. Once we had regular > publication, we could solicit donations from advertisers. > > I'd think that 3 to 4 issues per year would be sufficient. > > To sum up, the drawbacks to doing this are: > a) would take writing time away from general publications which reach > new users > b) printing costs/waste > c) unclear on how to pay for the first issue > d) currently no volunteer as editor In Cuba have got editor with experience in technical journals. Block and payment issue? -- Saludos, Gilberto Castillo Edificio Beijing. Miramar Trade Center. Etecsa. Miramar, La Habana.Cuba. --- This message was processed by Kaspersky Mail Gateway 5.6.28/RELEASE running at host imx3.etecsa.cu Visit our web-site: <http://www.kaspersky.com>, <http://www.viruslist.com>
> In Cuba have got editor with experience in technical journals.
>
> Block and payment issue?
I'm still trying to get you money for the conference legally. Darned US
embargo.
--
-- Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://www.pgexperts.com
El lun, 14-03-2011 a las 15:19 -0700, Josh Berkus escribió: > > I'm still trying to get you money for the conference legally. Darned > US > embargo. Ok, -- Saludos, Gilberto Castillo Edificio Beijing. Miramar Trade Center. Etecsa. Miramar, La Habana.Cuba. --- This message was processed by Kaspersky Mail Gateway 5.6.28/RELEASE running at host imx2.etecsa.cu Visit our web-site: <http://www.kaspersky.com>, <http://www.viruslist.com>
Hi folks, On 2011/03/15 7:00, Josh Berkus wrote: > On 3/10/11 2:53 PM, damien clochard wrote: >> I think that would be great to have a print media to keep in touch with >> this large user base, because these are the folks that will recommend >> PostgreSQL to their clients, co-workers, directors, etc. > > Everything else being equal, this is a cool idea. > > However, the biggest issue for this is getting enough writers. We don't > have that many people in our community who can write well, and those we > do have, have multiple demands for writing on their time (I myself am > backlogged a couple months for two publications). > > Realistically, we'd need to pay writers as well as the editor and the > editor/translators. It is unclear on how we would do this initially; > SPI has a precedent of not paying for people's time, and US, EU and JP > only pay for things in their respective countries. Once we had regular > publication, we could solicit donations from advertisers. > > I'd think that 3 to 4 issues per year would be sufficient. Yeah, I agree with that. > To sum up, the drawbacks to doing this are: > a) would take writing time away from general publications which reach > new users We (Japan PostgreSQL Users Group / JPUG) have a web site, called "Let's Postgres", to collect PostgreSQL technical articles. http://translate.google.co.jp/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=ja&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Flets.postgresql.jp%2F We already have writers and lots of articles, so I think it's possible to provide a few articles for each issue, translating into English would be required though. To make it possible, we need a few volunteers to review and rewrite *English* to support our English skills. Is it possible? > b) printing costs/waste JPUG also have some experiences for publishing printed newsletters, We got the fund for printing cost from its advertisements. It worked fine for us. > c) unclear on how to pay for the first issue > d) currently no volunteer as editor In this case, does "Editor" mean DTP guys? or review and rewrite guys? To review or rewrite articles, is our review process, CommitFest, possible to work for this magazine? EditFest? :) Regards, -- NAGAYASU Satoshi <satoshi.nagayasu@gmail.com>
Instead of a print publication, what about an electronic one designed for android phones? Robert Bernier ----- Original message ----- > On 3/10/11 2:53 PM, damien clochard wrote: > > I think that would be great to have a print media to keep in touch with > > this large user base, because these are the folks that will recommend > > PostgreSQL to their clients, co-workers, directors, etc. > > Everything else being equal, this is a cool idea. > > However, the biggest issue for this is getting enough writers. We don't > have that many people in our community who can write well, and those we > do have, have multiple demands for writing on their time (I myself am > backlogged a couple months for two publications). > > Realistically, we'd need to pay writers as well as the editor and the > editor/translators. It is unclear on how we would do this initially; > SPI has a precedent of not paying for people's time, and US, EU and JP > only pay for things in their respective countries. Once we had regular > publication, we could solicit donations from advertisers. > > I'd think that 3 to 4 issues per year would be sufficient. > > To sum up, the drawbacks to doing this are: > a) would take writing time away from general publications which reach > new users > b) printing costs/waste > c) unclear on how to pay for the first issue > d) currently no volunteer as editor > > The advantages are: > e) nice piece of swag for conferences > f) gets writing done which can be reused for other portions of > PostgreSQL.org (i.e. case studies) > g) potential new source of fundraising > > An alternative option to all of the above would be some kind of fund to > get people to write articles for PWN, which already gets published > regularly and has international translation. Then the last weeks' issue > could simply be cleaned up and formatted just before each conference. > > -- > -- Josh Berkus > PostgreSQL Experts Inc. > http://www.pgexperts.com > > -- > Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org) > To make changes to your subscription: > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy
Le 14/03/2011 23:00, Josh Berkus a écrit : > On 3/10/11 2:53 PM, damien clochard wrote: >> I think that would be great to have a print media to keep in touch with >> this large user base, because these are the folks that will recommend >> PostgreSQL to their clients, co-workers, directors, etc. > > Everything else being equal, this is a cool idea. > > However, the biggest issue for this is getting enough writers. We don't > have that many people in our community who can write well, and those we > do have, have multiple demands for writing on their time (I myself am > backlogged a couple months for two publications). > The community already produces a lot of information : new projects, announces, conferences, how-to, use cases, blogs, benchs, twits, book reviews, etc. In particular, I think Planet PostgreSQL and the wiki are great sources for content. I bet that most authors will be ok to give their articles for free, as long as : * The magazine makes no profit from it * The URL to the original article is provided * A short bio of the author is displayed * The author's employer is quoted * The author can review the magazine before it's published > Realistically, we'd need to pay writers as well as the editor and the > editor/translators. It is unclear on how we would do this initially; > SPI has a precedent of not paying for people's time, and US, EU and JP > only pay for things in their respective countries. Once we had regular > publication, we could solicit donations from advertisers. > Hum, actually i'd be much more comfortable with very few money involved in this. If you pay some writers, than you need to pay them all. With writers all round the globe, different standards of living, different work laws, different copyright laws, embargos, whatsoever... this is gonna be a nightmare. Just to give you an exemple i know : in France, if you're a press media and you pay a writer for 3 articles in 3 consecutive issues, then you are bound to him by a de-facto work contract that implies you are required to offer him to write in every forth-coming issues of the magazine. If you don't want to do that, you have to "fire" him... Also a lot images i use are free as long as the magazine stays non-commercial. If we include advertisings inside the magazine, then we can't use this pictures anymore and we'll have pay for a photo bank accout such as istockphoto.com with probably an unlimited reproduction license option that will cost a lot. I may change my mind, but for now i prefer to keep things simple and stay non-commercial. Of course, there's also the printing cost. I see to simple ways to deal with that : 1/ Local user groups pay the printing cost and then let them make people pay for the magazine. I think 1 or 2€ per magazine could easily cover the costs. That's still affordable for people coming at booth. 2/ Some company prints the magazine and give it to local use group. In that case we leave a blank box in the magazine saying : "The magazine was printed by..." and let the companies put its logo underneath. To my knowledge, this is what's done for the PGEU leaflets... Both case avoid any direct money transfer or managing donations. > I'd think that 3 to 4 issues per year would be sufficient. > > To sum up, the drawbacks to doing this are: > a) would take writing time away from general publications which reach > new users Well this depends on how you negociate with those general publications. In France, Guillaume writes articles for GNU/Linux mag and 6 months after publication, the articles are released under CC-BY-NC-SA licence, which means they can be reused in a free-as-beer media. > b) printing costs/waste My current draft for issue #0 has 24 pages. My small researches tell me that we can have 1000 copies ( A4 - CMYK - 135g recycled paper ) for something like 850 € (without VAT tax)... > c) unclear on how to pay for the first issue For the issue #0, i intend to get most of the content from blogs. > d) currently no volunteer as editor > Actually i am. Or maybe i don't understand what you mean by "editor" :) > The advantages are: > e) nice piece of swag for conferences +1 > f) gets writing done which can be reused for other portions of > PostgreSQL.org (i.e. case studies) +1 > g) potential new source of fundraising > +1 > An alternative option to all of the above would be some kind of fund to > get people to write articles for PWN, which already gets published > regularly and has international translation. Then the last weeks' issue > could simply be cleaned up and formatted just before each conference. > Why not... i'm not sure ppl would read full articles in the PWN though. The mail format is not comfortable if you have to read large texts. -- damien clochard dalibo.com | dalibo.org
> > Hum, actually i'd be much more comfortable with very few money involved > in this. If you pay some writers, than you need to pay them all. With > writers all round the globe, different standards of living, different > work laws, different copyright laws, embargos, whatsoever... this is > gonna be a nightmare. > There are countries that PostgreSQL users group is not organized or no such case how to print magazines? Or they will not get it right? For me the "editor" is fundamental and it is not the reviewer and the writer, there are certain skills to place articles, etc. that only someone who can trade. -- Saludos, Gilberto Castillo Edificio Beijing. Miramar Trade Center. Etecsa. Miramar, La Habana.Cuba. --- This message was processed by Kaspersky Mail Gateway 5.6.28/RELEASE running at host imx3.etecsa.cu Visit our web-site: <http://www.kaspersky.com>, <http://www.viruslist.com>
Le 15/03/2011 13:33, Gilberto Castillo Martínez a écrit :
>
>
>>
>> Hum, actually i'd be much more comfortable with very few money involved
>> in this. If you pay some writers, than you need to pay them all. With
>> writers all round the globe, different standards of living, different
>> work laws, different copyright laws, embargos, whatsoever... this is
>> gonna be a nightmare.
>>
>
> There are countries that PostgreSQL users group is not organized or no
> such case how to print magazines?
> Or they will not get it right?
>
Well that's a problem indeed. You don't need an official PG user group
to print the magazine, any individual could do it. However it requires
money and time, that's for sure. Like i said people can pay for the
printing and then sell the magazine to get their money back. Even then
the initial money required might too high and in that case non-profit
associations such as PGUS, PGEU or SPI may help.
> For me the "editor" is fundamental and it is not the reviewer and the
> writer, there are certain skills to place articles, etc. that only
> someone who can trade.
>
I totally agree with that and i think the word "editor" is ambivalent
and should be detailled because it's causing a lot of misunderstanding.
After some research, here's the english definitions i've found :
The **Editor in chief** ( "Rédacteur en Chef" in french ) is the one who
decides what articles are accepted or not. He/She write the editorial.
He/She is basically responsible for the content of the magazine.
The **Copy Editor** ( "Secretaire de Rédaction" in French ) is the one
that will correct, cut, clarify the articles. He/She can rewrite some
part of the text to make match publisher's style. He/She might also
write headlines and titles.
The **Layout Editor** ( "Maquettiste" in French ) is doing the page
design and adjusting positions, image sizes, colors, fonts, etc. He/She
generally uses Scribus or inDesign or Quark....
Note that i might be completely wrong with these definitions. They are
based on what i read on wikipedia and on my own experience with a local
paper media in France. Please correct me if i'm saying stupid things :)
Anyway for now, i'm doing all these 3 jobs at the same time, but of
course any help is welcome !
I think it's important to have an editor-in-chief who can take decision
and have an overall vision of the magazine. This role could be rotating
at each issue.
The Copy Editor is the key because it's the link between
editor-in-chief, the writers and the layout editor. That would be great
to have several people here.
Then we'll need to have 1 Layout editor for each language. Like i said
98% of the layout will stay unchanged but with translations there will
lots of tiny adaptations on each pages.
After the layout editor comes the reviewers ("proof-readers").
All in all, here how i see the organisation
For the english version :
- 1 Editor in Chief
- 1 or 3 Copy Editor(s)
- 1 or 2 Layout Editors
- 3 or 4 Reviewers
For each local version :
- 2 or 3 translators
- 1 Layout Editor
- 3 or 4 Reviewers
--
damien clochard
dalibo.com | dalibo.org
On tor, 2011-03-10 at 23:53 +0100, damien clochard wrote: > I think that would be great to have a print media to keep in touch > with this large user base, because these are the folks that will > recommend PostgreSQL to their clients, co-workers, directors, etc. That sounds nice and all, but this is 2011. There is a reason that print media are struggling worldwide: the economics don't work out anymore. Aside from the difficulties to set up a company of editors, writers, layout experts, etc., how will you arrange printing and distribution? About distributing this at conferences: I fear it's ultimately going to be giveaway-CD 2.0: everyone grabs one, most will throw it away. What would be useful is an electronic medium that is somewhere above planet. Think LWN for PostgreSQL: quality-controlled articles published on a regular schedule. You still need to have some editors and some technical staff, but the barrier to get it started is much lower, you will reach a much larger audience, and you can still make print editions or iPad apps out of the content later on.
Le 15/03/2011 15:30, Peter Eisentraut a écrit : > On tor, 2011-03-10 at 23:53 +0100, damien clochard wrote: >> I think that would be great to have a print media to keep in touch >> with this large user base, because these are the folks that will >> recommend PostgreSQL to their clients, co-workers, directors, etc. > > That sounds nice and all, but this is 2011. There is a reason that > print media are struggling worldwide: the economics don't work out > anymore. i think the situation is a little more complex... You have two big different types of print media : newspapers (daily and weekly journals) which are clearly into a crisis right now but, on the other hand magazines are doing pretty well. In fact, lots of people have stopped buying newspaper because they can find the info on the internet or have it in free/advertismenent-paid media, however they still buy magazines on special topics (sports and hobbies, local info, etc.) I don't have any figures to prove that but i'm pretty sure the number of different print magazines has never been so high and advertising revenues are increasing for magazines since a few years. > Aside from the difficulties to set up a company of editors, > writers, layout experts, etc., how will you arrange printing and > distribution? > Good point. The whole idea is to have a benevolent team making the PDF version in english and then one translating team for each languages. Printing (and shipping) will be left to local user groups. If they can have fundings from a company to print them, good for them ! If they want to sell it on booth , it's ok too :) > About distributing this at conferences: I fear it's ultimately going to > be giveaway-CD 2.0: everyone grabs one, most will throw it away. > Any print media will be thrown away eventually. That's their destiny :) Seriously, this is clearly the question : will people read it or not ? and that's the all point of doing an issue #0 ... Personnaly, i think that a print mag can't be compared to CD and i believe that it will be read, based on the popularity of the PostgreSQL articles in GNU/Linux Magazine France. Another way to ensure that people will actually read the magazine is to make them pay, even a small price (1 or 2€). This will cover the printing costs and the symbolic act of paying will be enough for people to (at least) open it :) > What would be useful is an electronic medium that is somewhere above > planet. Think LWN for PostgreSQL: quality-controlled articles published > on a regular schedule. You still need to have some editors and some > technical staff, but the barrier to get it started is much lower, you > will reach a much larger audience, and you can still make print editions > or iPad apps out of the content later on. > Well the Subscription-based economic model of LWN is really stange to me. I don't think they will get any large audience with that. In fact, i think we are not talking of the same audience at all. With a print Magazine, we can touch users that don't even know what planet.postgresql.org is... How could these users go to a "LWN for PostgreSQL" website and pay for quality-controlled content ? I'm not saying it's a bad idea . Actually i think it could work. But it's a completely different project. -- damien clochard dalibo.com | dalibo.org
Hi, On 2011/03/16 1:14, damien clochard wrote: >> About distributing this at conferences: I fear it's ultimately going to >> be giveaway-CD 2.0: everyone grabs one, most will throw it away. > > Any print media will be thrown away eventually. That's their destiny :) > > Seriously, this is clearly the question : will people read it or not ? > and that's the all point of doing an issue #0 ... > > Personnaly, i think that a print mag can't be compared to CD and i > believe that it will be read, based on the popularity of the PostgreSQL > articles in GNU/Linux Magazine France. Printed media is still having some efforts when we meet new people in face to face at several events. When we meet new people at a booth, we give an issue, they scan the issue, we discuss about topics in the issue, exchange and share ideas, and involve them to expand the community. And they may share it with their colleagues at their office after the event. :) That's why we still need printed media at the event. iPad or Kindle (I really like them!) would be great channels to reach out for readers, but I think "One size does not fit all". Regards, -- NAGAYASU Satoshi <satoshi.nagayasu@gmail.com>
Damien,
> In particular, I think Planet PostgreSQL and the wiki are great sources
> for content. I bet that most authors will be ok to give their articles
> for free, as long as :
Oh, that's a very good idea.
> * The magazine makes no profit from it
Actually, I think people would be OK with the magazine raising money for
pg.EU or other NGOs.
> * The URL to the original article is provided
> * A short bio of the author is displayed
> * The author's employer is quoted
> * The author can review the magazine before it's published
Speaking from experience, the last point is a really bad idea. You'll
never get the magazine out the door.
> Hum, actually i'd be much more comfortable with very few money involved
> in this. If you pay some writers, than you need to pay them all. With
Yeah, I can see your idea now. I think it's a good one and far more
likely to succeed.
> Also a lot images i use are free as long as the magazine stays
> non-commercial. If we include advertisings inside the magazine, then we
> can't use this pictures anymore and we'll have pay for a photo bank
> accout such as istockphoto.com with probably an unlimited reproduction
> license option that will cost a lot.
What if the magazine raises funds for an NGO?
> Of course, there's also the printing cost. I see to simple ways to deal
> with that :
Printing costs are pretty minor. I'd think that SPI and pg.EU could
cover them.
>> a) would take writing time away from general publications which reach
>> new users
>
> Well this depends on how you negociate with those general publications.
> In France, Guillaume writes articles for GNU/Linux mag and 6 months
> after publication, the articles are released under CC-BY-NC-SA licence,
> which means they can be reused in a free-as-beer media.
If you're reprinting Planet articles etc., this is not an issue.
>> d) currently no volunteer as editor
>
> Actually i am. Or maybe i don't understand what you mean by "editor" :)
Ah, I thought you weren't volunteering. We'll still need vols for
language editors though. I'm not convinced that we won't end up paying
for editorial (and design, and layout) somehow, but we can give it a
shot for at least one issue.
> Why not... i'm not sure ppl would read full articles in the PWN though.
> The mail format is not comfortable if you have to read large texts.
PWN isn't relevant now that I understand what you're proposing.
--
-- Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://www.pgexperts.com
Le 17/03/2011 01:25, Josh Berkus a écrit : > Damien, > >> In particular, I think Planet PostgreSQL and the wiki are great sources >> for content. I bet that most authors will be ok to give their articles >> for free, as long as : > > Oh, that's a very good idea. > >> * The magazine makes no profit from it > > Actually, I think people would be OK with the magazine raising money for > pg.EU or other NGOs. > yes the definition of "non-profit" / "non-commercial" is always tricky... My understanding is that you can raise money for a PGEU, SPI or PGUS and still being "non-commercial", in the sense that ( behond that fact that the magazine is sold ) the primary goal is not increasing indivual or collective wealth Maybe choosing a Creative Commons BY-SA-NC licence would make things clear. However then some people might argue that it's not a free (as in speech) licence >> * The URL to the original article is provided >> * A short bio of the author is displayed >> * The author's employer is quoted >> * The author can review the magazine before it's published > > Speaking from experience, the last point is a really bad idea. You'll > never get the magazine out the door. > understood >> Hum, actually i'd be much more comfortable with very few money involved >> in this. If you pay some writers, than you need to pay them all. With > > Yeah, I can see your idea now. I think it's a good one and far more > likely to succeed. > Thanks :) >> Also a lot images i use are free as long as the magazine stays >> non-commercial. If we include advertisings inside the magazine, then we >> can't use this pictures anymore and we'll have pay for a photo bank >> accout such as istockphoto.com with probably an unlimited reproduction >> license option that will cost a lot. > > What if the magazine raises funds for an NGO? > Once again my understanding is that you can raise money for an NGO and still claim to be "non-commercial". >> Of course, there's also the printing cost. I see to simple ways to deal >> with that : > > Printing costs are pretty minor. I'd think that SPI and pg.EU could > cover them. > >>> a) would take writing time away from general publications which reach >>> new users >> >> Well this depends on how you negociate with those general publications. >> In France, Guillaume writes articles for GNU/Linux mag and 6 months >> after publication, the articles are released under CC-BY-NC-SA licence, >> which means they can be reused in a free-as-beer media. > > If you're reprinting Planet articles etc., this is not an issue. > >>> d) currently no volunteer as editor >> >> Actually i am. Or maybe i don't understand what you mean by "editor" :) > > Ah, I thought you weren't volunteering. We'll still need vols for > language editors though. I'm not convinced that we won't end up paying > for editorial (and design, and layout) somehow, but we can give it a > shot for at least one issue. > Yes, i'm not completly opposed to that. It's just that **for now** i don't see the need for a professionnal editor. But if the magazine gets as popular as i hope, that's a possibility. -- damien clochard dalibo.com | dalibo.org