Thread: When to hold Pg East
Hello, While I am currently negotiating where to hold Pg East, it would be great if we could get some community to help us determine WHEN to hold Pg East. There is a very short survey (four or five questions) over at: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/2009/east/ If I could get responses to it that would be very helpful, thanks! Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Hello, > > While I am currently negotiating where to hold Pg East, it would be > great if we could get some community to help us determine WHEN to hold > Pg East. > > There is a very short survey (four or five questions) over at: > > http://www.postgresqlconference.org/2009/east/ Hmmmm. Any chance of a "maybe" option on "Planning on Attending"? Oh. Can you check if my survey got saved or not? Maybe a bug: Thank you, your submission has been received. You have already submitted this form. Submitted by jd on Tue, 12/09/2008 - 12:38 --Josh
On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 14:21 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > Hello, > > > > While I am currently negotiating where to hold Pg East, it would be > > great if we could get some community to help us determine WHEN to hold > > Pg East. > > > > There is a very short survey (four or five questions) over at: > > > > http://www.postgresqlconference.org/2009/east/ > > Hmmmm. Any chance of a "maybe" option on "Planning on Attending"? Option "maybe" added. Thanks that is a good idea. (darn boolean brain) > > Oh. Can you check if my survey got saved or not? Maybe a bug: Yes I received it. Weird on that output. Probably has something to do with the style. I will take a look, thanks for the report. Joshua D. Drake > > Thank you, your submission has been received. > You have already submitted this form. > Submitted by jd on Tue, 12/09/2008 - 12:38 > > > --Josh > > -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> While I am currently negotiating where to hold Pg East, it would be
> great if we could get some community to help us determine WHEN to hold
> Pg East.
Your question about the weekend is a bit ambiguous. Right now, people may
think that a "no" vote is voting for having the conference during the
week. I think what you meant to ask is something like this (the wording
could be better if the question were inverted, didn't want to invalidate
previous votes):
The bulk of East will take place during a weekend. Should the entire
conference be held then?
* Yes, weekend only
* No, I'd also like a 3rd day during the week
You also might want to throw a disclaimer into the date area that voting
for "Late May" would still respect the PGCon schedule. As the second
mover here, I think your only viable options here are snuggling up next to
it (East on May {15/}16/17 would open an interesting combo trip
possibility for long distance travellers, PHL->YYZ is a quick flight), or
staying clear of that period altogether.
--
* Greg Smith gsmith@gregsmith.com http://www.gregsmith.com Baltimore, MD
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:10 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > http://www.postgresqlconference.org/2009/east/ There appears to be a bug: http://skitch.com/selena/6fjs/help-us-find-the-east-2009-timline-postgresql-conference -selena -- Selena Deckelmann Open Source Bridge - http://www.opensourcebridge.org PDXPUG - http://pugs.postgresql.org/pdx Me - http://www.chesnok.com/daily
> You also might want to throw a disclaimer into the date area that voting
> for "Late May" would still respect the PGCon schedule. As the second
> mover here, I think your only viable options here are snuggling up next
> to it (East on May {15/}16/17 would open an interesting combo trip
> possibility for long distance travellers, PHL->YYZ is a quick flight),
> or staying clear of that period altogether.
Making it back-to-back with pgCon would make things easier on speakers.
However, it would likely decrease both attendence and sponsorships for
each conference.
--Josh
On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 16:40 -0800, Selena Deckelmann wrote: > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 2:10 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > > > http://www.postgresqlconference.org/2009/east/ > > There appears to be a bug: > > http://skitch.com/selena/6fjs/help-us-find-the-east-2009-timline-postgresql-conference Yeah JoshB reported previously. Thanks for the screenshot though it made it a little more obvious. There appears to be a conflict between the limit of how many times someone can submit, webform acl and privacy by node. Changing it so people can submit as many times as they like (as long as they are logged in) resolved the oddity. It might taint the results oddly but it is easy to filter. Joshua D. Drake > > -selena > -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 19:31 -0500, Greg Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2008, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> The bulk of East will take place during a weekend. Should the entire
> conference be held then?
>
> * Yes, weekend only
> * No, I'd also like a 3rd day during the week
I have updated this. Let me know what you think.
>
> You also might want to throw a disclaimer into the date area that voting
> for "Late May" would still respect the PGCon schedule. As the second
> mover here, I think your only viable options here are snuggling up next to
> it (East on May {15/}16/17 would open an interesting combo trip
> possibility for long distance travellers, PHL->YYZ is a quick flight), or
> staying clear of that period altogether.
Good point.
Joshua D. Drake
--
PostgreSQL
Consulting, Development, Support, Training
503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
JD, > Yeah JoshB reported previously. Thanks for the screenshot though it made > it a little more obvious. There appears to be a conflict between the > limit of how many times someone can submit, webform acl and privacy by > node. Changing it so people can submit as many times as they like (as > long as they are logged in) resolved the oddity. Hmmm. Selena and I each submitted only once, though. --Josh
On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 17:02 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
> > You also might want to throw a disclaimer into the date area that voting
> > for "Late May" would still respect the PGCon schedule. As the second
> > mover here, I think your only viable options here are snuggling up next
> > to it (East on May {15/}16/17 would open an interesting combo trip
> > possibility for long distance travellers, PHL->YYZ is a quick flight),
> > or staying clear of that period altogether.
>
> Making it back-to-back with pgCon would make things easier on speakers.
> However, it would likely decrease both attendence and sponsorships for
> each conference.
I don't know that it would affect sponsorship all that much, that is
just a budget thing, one month between them doesn't make a difference
there. Well with the maybe exception of those who are going to budget
quarterly.
It could affect attendance for some of the contributors but normal users
I doubt it much. Maybe. I mean last year we were only 2 months different
and neither show suffered. Do we think that 2 months is different than 2
weeks? *shrug*
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
>
> --Josh
>
>
--
PostgreSQL
Consulting, Development, Support, Training
503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 17:08 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > JD, > > > Yeah JoshB reported previously. Thanks for the screenshot though it made > > it a little more obvious. There appears to be a conflict between the > > limit of how many times someone can submit, webform acl and privacy by > > node. Changing it so people can submit as many times as they like (as > > long as they are logged in) resolved the oddity. > > Hmmm. Selena and I each submitted only once, though. Right, I made the change after the two reports. Joshua D. Drake > > --Josh > > -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
On Wednesday 10 December 2008 20:02:16 Josh Berkus wrote:
> > You also might want to throw a disclaimer into the date area that voting
> > for "Late May" would still respect the PGCon schedule. As the second
> > mover here, I think your only viable options here are snuggling up next
> > to it (East on May {15/}16/17 would open an interesting combo trip
> > possibility for long distance travellers, PHL->YYZ is a quick flight),
> > or staying clear of that period altogether.
>
PHL->YYZ might be a quick flight, but pgcon is in ottowa (aka yow), not
toronto. (In fairness I think PHL->YOW isnt too bad, though it will make it
harder to get a direct flight)
> Making it back-to-back with pgCon would make things easier on speakers.
really? for most people, first you have to work out how to get to Philly, and
then work out how to get from there to Ottowa, and then get back to some
place other than Philly, which makes getting arragements that much more
difficult. Unless east was actually in Ottowa, I think this makes things
harder.
Also, lets not forget that BSDCan and php|tek run right around that time as
well, so we're also probably writing off those communities as potential east
attendees if we do it at that time.
> However, it would likely decrease both attendence and sponsorships for
> each conference.
>
Amazing how that problem keeps coming up... I can't wait till jdcon gives up
its stubborness and moves itself to the other side of the calendar...
--
Robert Treat
Conjecture: http://www.xzilla.net
Consulting: http://www.omniti.com
Robert Treat wrote:
> On Wednesday 10 December 2008 20:02:16 Josh Berkus wrote:
>>> You also might want to throw a disclaimer into the date area that voting
>>> for "Late May" would still respect the PGCon schedule. As the second
>>> mover here, I think your only viable options here are snuggling up next
>>> to it (East on May {15/}16/17 would open an interesting combo trip
>>> possibility for long distance travellers, PHL->YYZ is a quick flight),
>>> or staying clear of that period altogether.
>
> PHL->YYZ might be a quick flight, but pgcon is in ottowa (aka yow), not
> toronto. (In fairness I think PHL->YOW isnt too bad, though it will make it
> harder to get a direct flight)
>
>> Making it back-to-back with pgCon would make things easier on speakers.
>
> really? for most people, first you have to work out how to get to Philly, and
> then work out how to get from there to Ottowa, and then get back to some
> place other than Philly, which makes getting arragements that much more
> difficult. Unless east was actually in Ottowa, I think this makes things
> harder.
In a lot of cases it would. It would also mean you're away from the
office two weeks in a row, instead of two weeks with work in between.
Which may be a whole lot harder to manage.
It would help a bit with the travel time for long distance, yes, but
it's not a huge difference. And I guess it helps a little bit with the
travel cost, but again not all that much. But those are in my experience
often not the problem - the problem is being away from the office.
>> However, it would likely decrease both attendence and sponsorships for
>> each conference.
Agreed.
> Amazing how that problem keeps coming up... I can't wait till jdcon gives up
> its stubborness and moves itself to the other side of the calendar...
>
Finding some sort of "even spread" of the dates for larger PostgreSQL
conferences would certainly be much better. Having -west right before
pgday.eu was a bad move, IMHO. Having -east right next to pgcon would be
another one.
We have an events page on the wiki
(http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Events). How about we add an indicator
(column or color) for "postgresql major" events or something (right now,
I'd list FOSDEM and pgcon on the list - but I don't know the details
about the others). That would give a good overview of how well spread
out these are...
//Magnus
Don't you guys think the location(s) of said event is relevant to
determining someones ability to go? There is a big difference in making
plans to go to Boston if you're in Jacksonville vs say Charlotte.
The linuxfest that Andrew did in October had us talking to a lot of guys
who have lost their jobs or are concerned about it, they wanted a
t-shirt but the money for a t-shirt would pay for gas, paying to be in a
city like Boston or NYC is different also than even Philly or College
park. It just seems a relevant feature in making plans.
Magnus Hagander wrote:
> Robert Treat wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday 10 December 2008 20:02:16 Josh Berkus wrote:
>>
>>>> You also might want to throw a disclaimer into the date area that voting
>>>> for "Late May" would still respect the PGCon schedule. As the second
>>>> mover here, I think your only viable options here are snuggling up next
>>>> to it (East on May {15/}16/17 would open an interesting combo trip
>>>> possibility for long distance travellers, PHL->YYZ is a quick flight),
>>>> or staying clear of that period altogether.
>>>>
>> PHL->YYZ might be a quick flight, but pgcon is in ottowa (aka yow), not
>> toronto. (In fairness I think PHL->YOW isnt too bad, though it will make it
>> harder to get a direct flight)
>>
>>
>>> Making it back-to-back with pgCon would make things easier on speakers.
>>>
>> really? for most people, first you have to work out how to get to Philly, and
>> then work out how to get from there to Ottowa, and then get back to some
>> place other than Philly, which makes getting arragements that much more
>> difficult. Unless east was actually in Ottowa, I think this makes things
>> harder.
>>
>
> In a lot of cases it would. It would also mean you're away from the
> office two weeks in a row, instead of two weeks with work in between.
> Which may be a whole lot harder to manage.
>
> It would help a bit with the travel time for long distance, yes, but
> it's not a huge difference. And I guess it helps a little bit with the
> travel cost, but again not all that much. But those are in my experience
> often not the problem - the problem is being away from the office.
>
>
>
>>> However, it would likely decrease both attendence and sponsorships for
>>> each conference.
>>>
>
> Agreed.
>
>
>
>> Amazing how that problem keeps coming up... I can't wait till jdcon gives up
>> its stubborness and moves itself to the other side of the calendar...
>>
>>
>
> Finding some sort of "even spread" of the dates for larger PostgreSQL
> conferences would certainly be much better. Having -west right before
> pgday.eu was a bad move, IMHO. Having -east right next to pgcon would be
> another one.
>
> We have an events page on the wiki
> (http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Events). How about we add an indicator
> (column or color) for "postgresql major" events or something (right now,
> I'd list FOSDEM and pgcon on the list - but I don't know the details
> about the others). That would give a good overview of how well spread
> out these are...
>
> //Magnus
>
>
Nevermind..
Melanie wrote:
> Don't you guys think the location(s) of said event is relevant to
> determining someones ability to go? There is a big difference in
> making plans to go to Boston if you're in Jacksonville vs say Charlotte.
>
> The linuxfest that Andrew did in October had us talking to a lot of
> guys who have lost their jobs or are concerned about it, they wanted a
> t-shirt but the money for a t-shirt would pay for gas, paying to be in
> a city like Boston or NYC is different also than even Philly or
> College park. It just seems a relevant feature in making plans.
>
> Magnus Hagander wrote:
>> Robert Treat wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday 10 December 2008 20:02:16 Josh Berkus wrote:
>>>
>>>>> You also might want to throw a disclaimer into the date area that
>>>>> voting
>>>>> for "Late May" would still respect the PGCon schedule. As the second
>>>>> mover here, I think your only viable options here are snuggling up
>>>>> next
>>>>> to it (East on May {15/}16/17 would open an interesting combo trip
>>>>> possibility for long distance travellers, PHL->YYZ is a quick
>>>>> flight),
>>>>> or staying clear of that period altogether.
>>>>>
>>> PHL->YYZ might be a quick flight, but pgcon is in ottowa (aka yow),
>>> not toronto. (In fairness I think PHL->YOW isnt too bad, though it
>>> will make it harder to get a direct flight)
>>>
>>>
>>>> Making it back-to-back with pgCon would make things easier on
>>>> speakers.
>>>>
>>> really? for most people, first you have to work out how to get to
>>> Philly, and then work out how to get from there to Ottowa, and then
>>> get back to some place other than Philly, which makes getting
>>> arragements that much more difficult. Unless east was actually in
>>> Ottowa, I think this makes things harder.
>>
>> In a lot of cases it would. It would also mean you're away from the
>> office two weeks in a row, instead of two weeks with work in between.
>> Which may be a whole lot harder to manage.
>>
>> It would help a bit with the travel time for long distance, yes, but
>> it's not a huge difference. And I guess it helps a little bit with the
>> travel cost, but again not all that much. But those are in my experience
>> often not the problem - the problem is being away from the office.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> However, it would likely decrease both attendence and
>>>> sponsorships for
>>>> each conference.
>>>>
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Amazing how that problem keeps coming up... I can't wait till jdcon
>>> gives up its stubborness and moves itself to the other side of the
>>> calendar...
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Finding some sort of "even spread" of the dates for larger PostgreSQL
>> conferences would certainly be much better. Having -west right before
>> pgday.eu was a bad move, IMHO. Having -east right next to pgcon would be
>> another one.
>>
>> We have an events page on the wiki
>> (http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Events). How about we add an indicator
>> (column or color) for "postgresql major" events or something (right now,
>> I'd list FOSDEM and pgcon on the list - but I don't know the details
>> about the others). That would give a good overview of how well spread
>> out these are...
>>
>> //Magnus
>>
>>
>
On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 11:41 -0500, Melanie wrote: > Don't you guys think the location(s) of said event is relevant to > determining someones ability to go? There is a big difference in making > plans to go to Boston if you're in Jacksonville vs say Charlotte. > > The linuxfest that Andrew did in October had us talking to a lot of guys > who have lost their jobs or are concerned about it, they wanted a > t-shirt but the money for a t-shirt would pay for gas, paying to be in a > city like Boston or NYC is different also than even Philly or College > park. It just seems a relevant feature in making plans. The thing that a very few but vocal people (which Melanie just touched on) are ignoring is goals of the conference. East and West are not international conferences. They aren't designed to be. We have other conferences handling that. The idea that a United States Conference should care about a Canadian one is silly. Just as PgEU.Day didn't care that it moved its conference to when West was held. It was unfortunate that it happen and it precluded me from going to PgEU.Day but I certainly don't mind beyond that because it was obviously the best time for them to hold their conference. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 11:41 -0500, Melanie wrote: > > Don't you guys think the location(s) of said event is relevant to > > determining someones ability to go? There is a big difference in making > > plans to go to Boston if you're in Jacksonville vs say Charlotte. > > > > The linuxfest that Andrew did in October had us talking to a lot of guys > > who have lost their jobs or are concerned about it, they wanted a > > t-shirt but the money for a t-shirt would pay for gas, paying to be in a > > city like Boston or NYC is different also than even Philly or College > > park. It just seems a relevant feature in making plans. > > The thing that a very few but vocal people (which Melanie just touched > on) are ignoring is goals of the conference. East and West are not > international conferences. They aren't designed to be. We have other > conferences handling that. > > The idea that a United States Conference should care about a Canadian > one is silly. Sure, as long as you don't mind having few Postgres speakers, because most of them are going to PGCon in Canada. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 12:53 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 11:41 -0500, Melanie wrote: > > The idea that a United States Conference should care about a Canadian > > one is silly. > > Sure, as long as you don't mind having few Postgres speakers, because > most of them are going to PGCon in Canada. Well I am certainly not going to plan on having East during PgCon, we actually took great pains last year to make sure that didn't happen. My preferred time frame is late March early April. Your point is well taken though. I am fully aware that the closer we get to PgCon the harder both conference will have attracting speakers. There will be some speakers who prefer to go to East for various reasons versus Ottawa and vice versa. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake > -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 12:53 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > > On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 11:41 -0500, Melanie wrote: > > > > The idea that a United States Conference should care about a Canadian > > > one is silly. > > > > Sure, as long as you don't mind having few Postgres speakers, because > > most of them are going to PGCon in Canada. > > Well I am certainly not going to plan on having East during PgCon, we > actually took great pains last year to make sure that didn't happen. My > preferred time frame is late March early April. Your point is well taken > though. I am fully aware that the closer we get to PgCon the harder both > conference will have attracting speakers. There will be some speakers > who prefer to go to East for various reasons versus Ottawa and vice > versa. This just highlights the absurdity of having two Postgres conferences on the East Coast in the same season, and having no other East Coast conferences the rest of the year. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Josh, In terms of people who want to attend both, but need to ask their boss's permission, I think there *is* a difference between "2 weeks" vs. "over a month". The likelihood that any boss would pay for his staff member to go to two different PostgreSQL conferences in the same month is very low. If, however, the two conferences are more than a month apart, in different quarters, it's an easier sell. And while the attendees who do both are not the majority, they are a significant number and are probably dedicated community members, so we ought to at least think of them. Also, I agree with Robert that it would improve both conferences if we could swap the dates of West and East, because: -- even less "ask the boss" issues for East Coasters -- Speakers who do both would be able to develop more different content for both conferences -- Having a conference in the East every 6 months, instead of two in 2 months and then nothing for 10 months, would help keep interest in PG up year-round in the Eastern US -- You might attend pgCon, learn from how Dan runs his conferences, solicit for pg.US and the next East (I can dream, can't I?) --Josh
On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 13:04 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 12:53 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > This just highlights the absurdity of having two Postgres conferences on > the East Coast in the same season, and having no other East Coast > conferences the rest of the year. Well it would certainly be nice to have a PgDay on the East coast sometime while Open Source world or something is going on that is for sure. A small one day that could draw about 20-40 people shouldn't be too hard. I will look into it after I get East taken care of. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
I'm not keen on signing up for a new site just to make a suggestion that it not happen in close proximity to pgCon in Ottawa. I'd like to attend both and the closer the proximity, the more difficult it makes it for me to attend. Of course having it so close to home makes a lot easier than it would for most.
Regards,
Gavin
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 13:04 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 12:53 -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote:> This just highlights the absurdity of having two Postgres conferences onWell it would certainly be nice to have a PgDay on the East coast
> the East Coast in the same season, and having no other East Coast
> conferences the rest of the year.
sometime while Open Source world or something is going on that is for
sure. A small one day that could draw about 20-40 people shouldn't be
too hard. I will look into it after I get East taken care of.
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
--
PostgreSQL
Consulting, Development, Support, Training
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On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 10:20 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > Josh, > > In terms of people who want to attend both, but need to ask their boss's > permission, I think there *is* a difference between "2 weeks" vs. "over > a month". The likelihood that any boss would pay for his staff member > to go to two different PostgreSQL conferences in the same month is very > low. If, however, the two conferences are more than a month apart, in > different quarters, it's an easier sell. Yeah that is certainly true. I sometimes forget that I am not bound by those rules. The other side of the coin though is, generally speaking only one of the conferences is going to be truly applicable to whoever is going. Ottawa has a very cool niche. It generally applies to -hacker type material. East/West generally applies to -general type material. That is why the crossover is so slim. There are of course exceptions which is why I say, "generally". > > And while the attendees who do both are not the majority, they are a > significant number and are probably dedicated community members, so we > ought to at least think of them. > I am not saying not to consider them. We do, like I said in the other post we went through great pains to try and not compete with Ottawa last year. I think we succeed in that and would like to ensure that happens again. > -- Having a conference in the East every 6 months, instead of two in 2 > months and then nothing for 10 months, would help keep interest in PG up > year-round in the Eastern US > Well this easily solved any number of ways. Not the least of which is just having PgDay now and again. Its just a matter of getting it done. I have already mentioned in another reply looking at that possibility once we get East nailed down. > -- You might attend pgCon, learn from how Dan runs his conferences, > solicit for pg.US and the next East (I can dream, can't I?) As I have said, many, many times before. I can't attend Ottawa until (I think 2011, maybe 2010) because of the dates he holds them. For those that care, Ottawa is held during the birthday week. Mine, My Wife's and my two daughters have their birthdays all in one week time in late May. Joshua D. Drake > > > --Josh > > -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 01:04:23PM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > This just highlights the absurdity of having two Postgres conferences on > the East Coast in the same season, and having no other East Coast > conferences the rest of the year. <aside> Way up here in the Great White North, suggesting that Ottawa is on the East Coast will get you hanged from a tree in some parts of the country ;-) </aside> A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@crankycanuck.ca
On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 13:57 -0500, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > <aside> > > Way up here in the Great White North, suggesting that Ottawa is on the > East Coast will get you hanged from a tree in some parts of the > country ;-) > > </aside> > I take it those are the parts where Parliament no long presides? Oh wait.... > A > > > -- > Andrew Sullivan > ajs@crankycanuck.ca > -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > Ottawa has a very cool niche. It generally applies to -hacker type > material. East/West generally applies to -general type material. That is > why the crossover is so slim. There are of course exceptions which is > why I say, "generally". Having both curated and run two of the PG West/East conferences, two PDXPUG days at OSCON, and also having participated in PgCon (and many other conferences besides) -- PgCon is not exclusively -hacker content, and there is significant overlap in the topics that are discussed there and at all of the conferences, and even the *way* that the topics are discussed. PgCon is the conference that drew in the hacker community first, and remains the primary international conference (with the PgEU conference on its heels). But there is plenty of content for DBAs there, and I would hope that MORE DBAs start attending PgCon. In fact, I encourage people to! Apart from topics - there is substantial overlap in the speakers at all the Postgres conferences, at least in terms of the speakers who are well-known, experienced and that attendees will be relatively guaranteed of a good performance :) Magnus' idea of color coding the events is a good one. An outsider looking at that page currently would be totally overwhelmed. I added 'Khaki' rows for conferences which I knew contained 1 day or more of exclusively Postgres content. Two months is barely enough separation between major conferences, regardless of where they are held. The only other community I know of that has this many conferences, that are larger then ours, is the Perl community. And they have quite a few years on us in terms of conference organization and non-profit/foundation experience. So, I'm glad we're all talking about this, and I'm sure the conversation is not yet over :) -selena -- Selena Deckelmann Open Source Bridge - http://www.opensourcebridge.org PDXPUG - http://pugs.postgresql.org/pdx Me - http://www.chesnok.com/daily
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:01:00AM -0800, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > I take it those are the parts where Parliament no long presides? Oh > wait.... No. There's a whole extra time zone between Ottawa and the East Coast. Ottawa is in Central Canada. But you're right that Canada has apparently joined the ranks of banana republics, where the sitting head of government can dismiss the legislature whenever it wants. The Westminster system was _just fine_ for centuries, but since the British decided that _habeas corpus_ was no longer always necessary, the wheels have come off. Gah. Anyway, I guess that's not too relevant to when to hold the USian Eastern conference, eh? A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@crankycanuck.ca
On Thursday 11 December 2008 12:06:59 Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 11:41 -0500, Melanie wrote: > > Don't you guys think the location(s) of said event is relevant to > > determining someones ability to go? There is a big difference in making > > plans to go to Boston if you're in Jacksonville vs say Charlotte. > > > > The linuxfest that Andrew did in October had us talking to a lot of guys > > who have lost their jobs or are concerned about it, they wanted a > > t-shirt but the money for a t-shirt would pay for gas, paying to be in a > > city like Boston or NYC is different also than even Philly or College > > park. It just seems a relevant feature in making plans. > > The thing that a very few but vocal people (which Melanie just touched > on) are ignoring is goals of the conference. East and West are not > international conferences. They aren't designed to be. We have other > conferences handling that. > I'm guessing that 50%+ of the attendees of pgcon come from the US. You may not have the same goal, but you do target much of the same market. And the more your target audience overlaps, the more it is an issue. > The idea that a United States Conference should care about a Canadian > one is silly. Just as PgEU.Day didn't care that it moved its conference > to when West was held. It was unfortunate that it happen and it > precluded me from going to PgEU.Day but I certainly don't mind beyond > that because it was obviously the best time for them to hold their > conference. > That fact that something is unfortunate, to me, means that you ought to care. At least a little. -- Robert Treat Conjecture: http://www.xzilla.net Consulting: http://www.omniti.com
On Thursday 11 December 2008 14:01:45 Selena Deckelmann wrote: > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > > Ottawa has a very cool niche. It generally applies to -hacker type > > material. East/West generally applies to -general type material. That is > > why the crossover is so slim. There are of course exceptions which is > > why I say, "generally". > > Having both curated and run two of the PG West/East conferences, two > PDXPUG days at OSCON, and also having participated in PgCon (and many > other conferences besides) -- > > PgCon is not exclusively -hacker content, and there is significant > overlap in the topics that are discussed there and at all of the > conferences, and even the *way* that the topics are discussed. > > PgCon is the conference that drew in the hacker community first, and > remains the primary international conference (with the PgEU conference > on its heels). But there is plenty of content for DBAs there, and I > would hope that MORE DBAs start attending PgCon. In fact, I encourage > people to! > > Apart from topics - there is substantial overlap in the speakers at > all the Postgres conferences, at least in terms of the speakers who > are well-known, experienced and that attendees will be relatively > guaranteed of a good performance :) > > Magnus' idea of color coding the events is a good one. An outsider > looking at that page currently would be totally overwhelmed. > > I added 'Khaki' rows for conferences which I knew contained 1 day or > more of exclusively Postgres content. > > Two months is barely enough separation between major conferences, > regardless of where they are held. > > The only other community I know of that has this many conferences, > that are larger then ours, is the Perl community. And they have quite > a few years on us in terms of conference organization and > non-profit/foundation experience. So, I'm glad we're all talking about > this, and I'm sure the conversation is not yet over :) > hmm... the php community has a significant number of events as well, see http://www.php.net/conferences/ for more. -- Robert Treat Conjecture: http://www.xzilla.net Consulting: http://www.omniti.com
ajs@crankycanuck.ca (Andrew Sullivan) writes:
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:01:00AM -0800, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>
>> I take it those are the parts where Parliament no long presides? Oh
>> wait....
>
> No. There's a whole extra time zone between Ottawa and the East
> Coast. Ottawa is in Central Canada.
My parents live in Ottawa, albeit two blocks from the border between
Ottawa and a suburb city called Nepean.
On occasion, when travelling on the East Coast, diplomacy has dictated
their being reported as "from Nepean," because burly (& surly!)
fisherman types were making noises about "those *&)!$#!?#@$ from
Ottawa," and looked like they might conceivably "lay on hands" if they
knew they had people in the room who were actually *from Ottawa.*
I believe that the denizens of the "Untied States" occasionally have
some similar things to say about "those *&?!$*$!!@# from Washington!",
with some dose of "**** Yankees!" mixed in. (And I do know that DC
lies in a location that's *somewhat* Southron...)
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On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 11:04 -0500, Chris Browne wrote: > ajs@crankycanuck.ca (Andrew Sullivan) writes: > > On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:01:00AM -0800, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > I believe that the denizens of the "Untied States" occasionally have > some similar things to say about "those *&?!$*$!!@# from Washington!", > with some dose of "**** Yankees!" mixed in. (And I do know that DC > lies in a location that's *somewhat* Southron...) To be clear that is Washington D.C. and that is the United States, its pretty much the world. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL Consulting, Development, Support, Training 503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997