Thread: Re: Print advertising

May have misunderstood me a bit, though Gavin's idea
is a good one and needed.

I would never suggest advertising.  In my mind it is
contra to "the movement".  I'm suggesting a press
release that is really a - What it is & Why you need
it, letter.  Small village (<50,000 people) papers
are hungry for news.  Most have 2 or 3 part-time
reporters that write about the local football team's
performance and assorted local tidbits.
I think they would run an article as a press
release. Not email --- just a regular old piece of
paper with a stamp.  Hand addressed with a real
signature.  The release should be non-tech; write a
bit about "us vs them" (small vs big)  AND make a
call for the local PC fixer + the school admin and
even the local government to come to the site.....
this is where Gavin's idea would fit in nicely.

Personalized printing is a large part of my
business.  I don't have a problem sending out 10 K
of these over the course of a year on my nickel,
including postage.

Just need a good letter and content Gavin mentioned
--- kind of a STARTER'S KIT.

But I agree --- no advertising.  Waste of money.

After all, the release would be from one community
to another.

Thanks,
Mike









----- Original Message -----
From: Gavin Sherry <swm@linuxworld.com.au>
Date: Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:59 pm
Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Print advertising

> Hi all,
>
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, Josh Berkus wrote:
>
> > Mike,
> >
> > I'm taking this back on-list because I think
it's a critical
> discussion.>
> > > I have a fuzzy feeling that there are a few people
> > > in the world that do not sit around reading
> > > Information Week as part of their daily
routine.  A
> > > CEO of a 20 person company in Oneonta, NY may not
> > > even know that there IS such a thing as
PG..... but
> > > he sure knows that he has needs and 1 of them is
> > > saving money.  He probably DOES read the local
> > > paper... because he may be in it.  And if he reads
> > > some plain talk about PG, he may grab his
"computer
> > > guy" by the stacking swivel and say... "Why
wasn't I
> > > told about this?"
> >
> > I think you're absolutely right.  However, I'm
personally at a
> loss on how to
> > reach these people without spending a fortune on
print
> advertising.   The
> > problem is that small businesses simply don't
read any national
> publications> consistently.  There are some key
ones we could take
> on -- ComputerWorld,
> > Philanthropy Journal -- but on the whole it
would be hit-or-miss.
> And for
> > small local papers, there are probably 25,000 of
them in the US.
>
> I second your scepticism here. I've had some
experience of IT
> marketingand marketing/advertising in general.
Effective
> advertising, especially to
> small business, requires a broad and long running
campaign -- read:
> expensive. In my opinion, the ad placed by the
mozilla guys in a
> major US
> daily was good for morale bit not an effective way
of marketing the
> project.
>
> The thing that we're good at is attracting people
to the project
> for its
> technical features. This is our strength. One of
the things that
> companiessurrounding PostgreSQL -- particularly
the big ones -- are
> good at is
> sales and marketing. I think most of the work
involved in
> attracting small
> businesses not looking specifically for an open
source database can be
> left to them.
>
> That being said, I think there are some key areas
we need to take
> care of:
> case studies on the web site, testimonials on the
web site and a
> kind of
> 'Why PostgreSQL' check list, which blends
testimonials with a list of
> features. I'm currently sitting on a bunch of case
studies for the Web
> site. Unfortunately, I have very little time to
work on them. The
> first of
> these should come through very soon.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gavin
>
> ---------------------------(end of
broadcast)-----------------------
> ----
> TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
>

Very good observation !

Oleg
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, nhrcommu@rochester.rr.com wrote:

> May have misunderstood me a bit, though Gavin's idea
> is a good one and needed.
>
> I would never suggest advertising.  In my mind it is
> contra to "the movement".  I'm suggesting a press
> release that is really a - What it is & Why you need
> it, letter.  Small village (<50,000 people) papers
> are hungry for news.  Most have 2 or 3 part-time
> reporters that write about the local football team's
> performance and assorted local tidbits.
> I think they would run an article as a press
> release. Not email --- just a regular old piece of
> paper with a stamp.  Hand addressed with a real
> signature.  The release should be non-tech; write a
> bit about "us vs them" (small vs big)  AND make a
> call for the local PC fixer + the school admin and
> even the local government to come to the site.....
> this is where Gavin's idea would fit in nicely.
>
> Personalized printing is a large part of my
> business.  I don't have a problem sending out 10 K
> of these over the course of a year on my nickel,
> including postage.
>
> Just need a good letter and content Gavin mentioned
> --- kind of a STARTER'S KIT.
>
> But I agree --- no advertising.  Waste of money.
>
> After all, the release would be from one community
> to another.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gavin Sherry <swm@linuxworld.com.au>
> Date: Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:59 pm
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Print advertising
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, Josh Berkus wrote:
>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> I'm taking this back on-list because I think
> it's a critical
>> discussion.>
>>>> I have a fuzzy feeling that there are a few people
>>>> in the world that do not sit around reading
>>>> Information Week as part of their daily
> routine.  A
>>>> CEO of a 20 person company in Oneonta, NY may not
>>>> even know that there IS such a thing as
> PG..... but
>>>> he sure knows that he has needs and 1 of them is
>>>> saving money.  He probably DOES read the local
>>>> paper... because he may be in it.  And if he reads
>>>> some plain talk about PG, he may grab his
> "computer
>>>> guy" by the stacking swivel and say... "Why
> wasn't I
>>>> told about this?"
>>>
>>> I think you're absolutely right.  However, I'm
> personally at a
>> loss on how to
>>> reach these people without spending a fortune on
> print
>> advertising.   The
>>> problem is that small businesses simply don't
> read any national
>> publications> consistently.  There are some key
> ones we could take
>> on -- ComputerWorld,
>>> Philanthropy Journal -- but on the whole it
> would be hit-or-miss.
>> And for
>>> small local papers, there are probably 25,000 of
> them in the US.
>>
>> I second your scepticism here. I've had some
> experience of IT
>> marketingand marketing/advertising in general.
> Effective
>> advertising, especially to
>> small business, requires a broad and long running
> campaign -- read:
>> expensive. In my opinion, the ad placed by the
> mozilla guys in a
>> major US
>> daily was good for morale bit not an effective way
> of marketing the
>> project.
>>
>> The thing that we're good at is attracting people
> to the project
>> for its
>> technical features. This is our strength. One of
> the things that
>> companiessurrounding PostgreSQL -- particularly
> the big ones -- are
>> good at is
>> sales and marketing. I think most of the work
> involved in
>> attracting small
>> businesses not looking specifically for an open
> source database can be
>> left to them.
>>
>> That being said, I think there are some key areas
> we need to take
>> care of:
>> case studies on the web site, testimonials on the
> web site and a
>> kind of
>> 'Why PostgreSQL' check list, which blends
> testimonials with a list of
>> features. I'm currently sitting on a bunch of case
> studies for the Web
>> site. Unfortunately, I have very little time to
> work on them. The
>> first of
>> these should come through very soon.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Gavin
>>
>> ---------------------------(end of
> broadcast)-----------------------
>> ----
>> TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
>>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
>       choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
>       match
>

     Regards,
         Oleg
_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)
Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83

Guys,

I'd like to offer a solution promoting pg; with your assistance, I could compose and and publish a Google Ad. I already
havethe budget for our (SRA America) Google advertising so it's no big deal if I extend it to include generic Postgres
advertising.

The advantage about Google Advertising is that we can target any population segment we choose.

Comments?




On Monday 21 November 2005 01:07, Oleg Bartunov wrote:
> Very good observation !
>
> Oleg
>
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, nhrcommu@rochester.rr.com wrote:
> > May have misunderstood me a bit, though Gavin's idea
> > is a good one and needed.
> >
> > I would never suggest advertising.  In my mind it is
> > contra to "the movement".  I'm suggesting a press
> > release that is really a - What it is & Why you need
> > it, letter.  Small village (<50,000 people) papers
> > are hungry for news.  Most have 2 or 3 part-time
> > reporters that write about the local football team's
> > performance and assorted local tidbits.
> > I think they would run an article as a press
> > release. Not email --- just a regular old piece of
> > paper with a stamp.  Hand addressed with a real
> > signature.  The release should be non-tech; write a
> > bit about "us vs them" (small vs big)  AND make a
> > call for the local PC fixer + the school admin and
> > even the local government to come to the site.....
> > this is where Gavin's idea would fit in nicely.
> >
> > Personalized printing is a large part of my
> > business.  I don't have a problem sending out 10 K
> > of these over the course of a year on my nickel,
> > including postage.
> >
> > Just need a good letter and content Gavin mentioned
> > --- kind of a STARTER'S KIT.
> >
> > But I agree --- no advertising.  Waste of money.
> >
> > After all, the release would be from one community
> > to another.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Gavin Sherry <swm@linuxworld.com.au>
> > Date: Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:59 pm
> > Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Print advertising
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, Josh Berkus wrote:
> >>> Mike,
> >>>
> >>> I'm taking this back on-list because I think
> >
> > it's a critical
> >
> >> discussion.>
> >>
> >>>> I have a fuzzy feeling that there are a few people
> >>>> in the world that do not sit around reading
> >>>> Information Week as part of their daily
> >
> > routine.  A
> >
> >>>> CEO of a 20 person company in Oneonta, NY may not
> >>>> even know that there IS such a thing as
> >
> > PG..... but
> >
> >>>> he sure knows that he has needs and 1 of them is
> >>>> saving money.  He probably DOES read the local
> >>>> paper... because he may be in it.  And if he reads
> >>>> some plain talk about PG, he may grab his
> >
> > "computer
> >
> >>>> guy" by the stacking swivel and say... "Why
> >
> > wasn't I
> >
> >>>> told about this?"
> >>>
> >>> I think you're absolutely right.  However, I'm
> >
> > personally at a
> >
> >> loss on how to
> >>
> >>> reach these people without spending a fortune on
> >
> > print
> >
> >> advertising.   The
> >>
> >>> problem is that small businesses simply don't
> >
> > read any national
> >
> >> publications> consistently.  There are some key
> >
> > ones we could take
> >
> >> on -- ComputerWorld,
> >>
> >>> Philanthropy Journal -- but on the whole it
> >
> > would be hit-or-miss.
> >
> >> And for
> >>
> >>> small local papers, there are probably 25,000 of
> >
> > them in the US.
> >
> >> I second your scepticism here. I've had some
> >
> > experience of IT
> >
> >> marketingand marketing/advertising in general.
> >
> > Effective
> >
> >> advertising, especially to
> >> small business, requires a broad and long running
> >
> > campaign -- read:
> >> expensive. In my opinion, the ad placed by the
> >
> > mozilla guys in a
> >
> >> major US
> >> daily was good for morale bit not an effective way
> >
> > of marketing the
> >
> >> project.
> >>
> >> The thing that we're good at is attracting people
> >
> > to the project
> >
> >> for its
> >> technical features. This is our strength. One of
> >
> > the things that
> >
> >> companiessurrounding PostgreSQL -- particularly
> >
> > the big ones -- are
> >
> >> good at is
> >> sales and marketing. I think most of the work
> >
> > involved in
> >
> >> attracting small
> >> businesses not looking specifically for an open
> >
> > source database can be
> >
> >> left to them.
> >>
> >> That being said, I think there are some key areas
> >
> > we need to take
> >
> >> care of:
> >> case studies on the web site, testimonials on the
> >
> > web site and a
> >
> >> kind of
> >> 'Why PostgreSQL' check list, which blends
> >
> > testimonials with a list of
> >
> >> features. I'm currently sitting on a bunch of case
> >
> > studies for the Web
> >
> >> site. Unfortunately, I have very little time to
> >
> > work on them. The
> >
> >> first of
> >> these should come through very soon.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Gavin
> >>
> >> ---------------------------(end of
> >
> > broadcast)-----------------------
> >
> >> ----
> >> TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
> >       choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
> >       match
>
>      Regards,
>          Oleg
> _____________________________________________________________
> Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,
> Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)
> Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
> phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
>        subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
>        message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Very generous!

I guess development of a keyword list along with adwords & Gavin's piece would be next.

I just bought a list of 3,300 US Newspapers which would be a start for regular mailing of a "press release" - with wording yet to be determined.  I will eventually need to know what to use as a return address.  A pg graphic along with "c/o"..... my company address?

I think Robert's Google ad + implementation of Gavin's idea + snail mail press release (PG - What it is & Why you need it) will be a good start to supplementing existing efforts.  

Certainly won't hurt.

 
Robert Bernier wrote:

Guys,

I'd like to offer a solution promoting pg; with your assistance, I could compose and and publish a Google Ad. I already have the budget for our (SRA America) Google advertising so it's no big deal if I extend it to include generic Postgres advertising.

The advantage about Google Advertising is that we can target any population segment we choose.

Comments?




On Monday 21 November 2005 01:07, Oleg Bartunov wrote: 

Very good observation !

Oleg

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, nhrcommu@rochester.rr.com wrote:   

May have misunderstood me a bit, though Gavin's idea
is a good one and needed.

I would never suggest advertising.  In my mind it is
contra to "the movement".  I'm suggesting a press
release that is really a - What it is & Why you need
it, letter.  Small village (<50,000 people) papers
are hungry for news.  Most have 2 or 3 part-time
reporters that write about the local football team's
performance and assorted local tidbits.
I think they would run an article as a press
release. Not email --- just a regular old piece of
paper with a stamp.  Hand addressed with a real
signature.  The release should be non-tech; write a
bit about "us vs them" (small vs big)  AND make a
call for the local PC fixer + the school admin and
even the local government to come to the site.....
this is where Gavin's idea would fit in nicely.

Personalized printing is a large part of my
business.  I don't have a problem sending out 10 K
of these over the course of a year on my nickel,
including postage.

Just need a good letter and content Gavin mentioned
--- kind of a STARTER'S KIT.

But I agree --- no advertising.  Waste of money.

After all, the release would be from one community
to another.

Thanks,
Mike









----- Original Message -----
From: Gavin Sherry <swm@linuxworld.com.au>
Date: Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:59 pm
Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Print advertising
     

Hi all,

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005, Josh Berkus wrote:       

Mike,

I'm taking this back on-list because I think         

it's a critical
     

discussion.>
       

I have a fuzzy feeling that there are a few people
in the world that do not sit around reading
Information Week as part of their daily           

routine.  A
     

CEO of a 20 person company in Oneonta, NY may not
even know that there IS such a thing as           

PG..... but
     

he sure knows that he has needs and 1 of them is
saving money.  He probably DOES read the local
paper... because he may be in it.  And if he reads
some plain talk about PG, he may grab his           

"computer
     

guy" by the stacking swivel and say... "Why           

wasn't I
     

told about this?"           

I think you're absolutely right.  However, I'm         

personally at a
     

loss on how to
       

reach these people without spending a fortune on         

print
     

advertising.   The
       

problem is that small businesses simply don't         

read any national
     

publications> consistently.  There are some key       

ones we could take
     

on -- ComputerWorld,
       

Philanthropy Journal -- but on the whole it         

would be hit-or-miss.
     

And for
       

small local papers, there are probably 25,000 of         

them in the US.
     

I second your scepticism here. I've had some       

experience of IT
     

marketingand marketing/advertising in general.       

Effective
     

advertising, especially to
small business, requires a broad and long running       

campaign -- read:     

expensive. In my opinion, the ad placed by the       

mozilla guys in a
     

major US
daily was good for morale bit not an effective way       

of marketing the
     

project.

The thing that we're good at is attracting people       

to the project
     

for its
technical features. This is our strength. One of       

the things that
     

companiessurrounding PostgreSQL -- particularly       

the big ones -- are
     

good at is
sales and marketing. I think most of the work       

involved in
     

attracting small
businesses not looking specifically for an open       

source database can be
     

left to them.

That being said, I think there are some key areas       

we need to take
     

care of:
case studies on the web site, testimonials on the       

web site and a
     

kind of
'Why PostgreSQL' check list, which blends       

testimonials with a list of
     

features. I'm currently sitting on a bunch of case       

studies for the Web
     

site. Unfortunately, I have very little time to       

work on them. The
     

first of
these should come through very soon.

Thanks,

Gavin

---------------------------(end of       

broadcast)-----------------------
     

----
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend       

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to     choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not     match     

 	Regards,		Oleg
_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)
Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate      subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your      message can get through to the mailing list cleanly   

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate      subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your      message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
 

On Monday 21 November 2005 09:08, Mike Ellsworth wrote:
> I guess development of a keyword list along with adwords & Gavin's piece
> would be next.
>
> I just bought a list of 3,300 US Newspapers which would be a start for
> regular mailing of a "press release" - with wording yet to be
> determined.  I will eventually need to know what to use as a return
> address.  A pg graphic along with "c/o"..... my company address?
>
> I think Robert's Google ad + implementation of Gavin's idea + snail mail
> press release (PG - What it is & Why you need it) will be a good start
> to supplementing existing efforts.

Google Ads work by using keywords i.e. "postgresql new version" etc. They can be targetted geographically and also
withina budget. 

You target an ad by using phrases that you know the intended audience will use in their google searches. For example,
ifyou want to attract the attention of MS SQL Server users then you would use phrases that they themselves type in a
search.Our ad then appears off to the side. 

We should generate a list of keywords and see where this leads.

cheers

All,

I thought I would pick up this thread again.  A couple of weeks ago, Robert Bernier offered to pick up a bit of advertising for keyword search for PostgreSQL on his own budget.

I picked at the Overture (now Yahoo) Keyword Selector tool: 

http://inventory.overture.com/d/searchinventory/suggestion/

for a couple of hours yesterday and believe I have a basic strategy:

1)  It would be a bad idea to get into a search term bidding war on Robert's dime
2)  For any term selected, should show up in the Top 8 --- otherwise end up on a 2nd page and rarely viewed.
3)  Using derivatives or complementary technology may produce low costs/high return results.

As an example, a search for:

open office

yields
112456  open office security issue 
25960  open office 
1784  open office download 
710  open office software 
410  free open office 
391  microsoft to open office 
321  open source office
etc

search
openeoffice

yields

16494  openoffice 
2286  openoffice download 
1005  openoffice 2.0 
557  the openoffice org 
551  openoffice software
etc

Off the top of my head possible ad:
"Did you know that you can use PostgreSQL to securely store your Open Office documents?
bla bla bla.  "  Then a link to a very brief tutorial on the pg site.

The same basic idea can be used for many other features:
ADODB = 632

""Did you know that ..."

procedure stored = 1289

and so on.  All of which would put an ad either at the top or very near the top - affordably.  There must be content relative to the search term.  In the case of "adodb" or "procedure stored" (as examples), it already exists.  For Open Office, a bit of something would need to be created.

I will spend some time pecking away, but only if there is a level of concensus that the basic concept above would be helpful.  If so, I will peck --- then send to Robert (he's the money man), who can edit and post to the list.

Thanks,
Mike

btw:  As an aside -  "partnering" (reciprocal links at the mimimum) with Open Office (or others) may prove quite fruitful.  But that's probably a task for Steering guys.

More traffic---> more developers---> more ad revenue---> ensuing development, etc.  
Everyone benefits.



















Robert Bernier wrote:

On Monday 21 November 2005 09:08, Mike Ellsworth wrote: 

I guess development of a keyword list along with adwords & Gavin's piece
would be next.

I just bought a list of 3,300 US Newspapers which would be a start for
regular mailing of a "press release" - with wording yet to be
determined.  I will eventually need to know what to use as a return
address.  A pg graphic along with "c/o"..... my company address?

I think Robert's Google ad + implementation of Gavin's idea + snail mail
press release (PG - What it is & Why you need it) will be a good start
to supplementing existing efforts.   

Google Ads work by using keywords i.e. "postgresql new version" etc. They can be targetted geographically and also within a budget.

You target an ad by using phrases that you know the intended audience will use in their google searches. For example, if you want to attract the attention of MS SQL Server users then you would use phrases that they themselves type in a search. Our ad then appears off to the side.

We should generate a list of keywords and see where this leads.

cheers

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
 

Mike,

> I thought I would pick up this thread again.  A couple of weeks ago,
> Robert Bernier offered to pick up a bit of advertising for keyword
> search for PostgreSQL on his own budget.

Hmmm.  I really don't think internet search engines are where we need to
focus on getting the word out:

1) We already come up toward the top of the results for a lot of relevant
terms, like "Postgres" "postgreSQL", "open source database",
"object-relational", etc.

2) People who spend a lot of time on the internet are liable to have heard
of us anyway.

3) Several of PostgreSQL's commercial supporters already buy keywords.

As such, I really think the focus should be finding ways into print
publications which put PostgreSQL in front of people who wouldn't
necessarily spend their time evaluating IT on the web.

All that being said, I'll point out that Electronic Frontier, the leading
brokerage for keyword marketing, runs PostgreSQL and would probably be
willing to help out.

--
--Josh

Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco