Thread: From a real novice

I've just been abandoned by my FreeBSD/PostgreSQL administrator just as we were setting things up for our test server.
Ihope if I provide as much of the specs as I can get my hands on, someone on the list will be able to help me with my
problem.

Although pgsql seems to be installed, I do not know why pgsql isn't running or starting at the time the system comes
up.It doesn't show up in the TOP list. 

I'm running FreeBSD 4.6-RELEASE. I'm not exactly sure which version of PostgreSQL I'm running and I also suspect that a
secondversion has been installed on top of the first one. I do not know either version. I suspect that to minimize all
thevariables, it would probably benefit me to simply deinstall all version of pgsql and then simply start off with the
mostcurrent one available, 7.3.2. From the changes I've read about it, I can very much appreciate the advancements made
inthis version. 

1. How can I take an inventory of the various installations of pgsql on my FreeBSD computer?

2. How can I remove them?

3. I assume I can ensure I have the most recent installation support by doing a cvsup but I really only want to get my
handson the most recent pgsql for FreeBSD. How is this possible? 

4. We did minimal work on the previous version and I don't need to save any of the data or configuration information as
itmay exist in various configuration files throughout my FreeBSD system. How can I ensure that I've removed all of
thesebefore I do my new installation? 

At a time like this I can not describe how grateful I would be for someone's detailed and very patient assistance. I am
trulya novice. If this request belongs in a different group, then please do instruct me as to which one. 

Thanks and thanks again,

Tamir

Tamir,

> I've just been abandoned by my FreeBSD/PostgreSQL administrator just as we
> were setting things up for our test server. I hope if I provide as much of
> the specs as I can get my hands on, someone on the list will be able to
> help me with my problem.

From the rest of the description of your problem, you really need the
assistance of a BSD admin at least.  That person can get help for the
postgres-specific problems on this list or elsewhere, but assisting you with
both Postgresql and with BSD is probably beyond the capability of any mailing
list.  Further, if you are new to both, you are likely to damage something
(most likely system security) in poking around to learn what's what.  And
this sounds like it's supposed to be a production test system.

If you have plenty of time, buy a book on BSD admin, and learn BSD before you
try to learn Postgres on BSD.  Make sense?

> Although pgsql seems to be installed, I do not know why pgsql isn't running
> or starting at the time the system comes up. It doesn't show up in the TOP
> list.

This would require a startup script wherever BSD keeps startup scripts.  I'm a
Linux user, so I can't give you pointers on this one.  Suffice it to say that
startup scripts are *not* part of the PostgreSQL install.

> 3. I assume I can ensure I have the most recent installation support by
> doing a cvsup but I really only want to get my hands on the most recent
> pgsql for FreeBSD. How is this possible?

If you are a newbie, you should not be messing with Postgres-CVS.  Stick to a
stable version instead, which is downloadable from the Postgres web site.

> 4. We did minimal work on the previous version and I don't need to save any
> of the data or configuration information as it may exist in various
> configuration files throughout my FreeBSD system. How can I ensure that
> I've removed all of these before I do my new installation?

They will all be in the $PGDATA directory, database and config files both.

> At a time like this I can not describe how grateful I would be for
> someone's detailed and very patient assistance. I am truly a novice. If
> this request belongs in a different group, then please do instruct me as to
> which one.

As I said above, I think you need a consultant.

--
Josh Berkus
Aglio Database Solutions
San Francisco

At 10:14 AM 3/24/03 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
> >From the rest of the description of your problem, you really need the
>assistance of a BSD admin at least.  That person can get help for the
>postgres-specific problems on this list or elsewhere, but assisting you with
>both Postgresql and with BSD is probably beyond the capability of any mailing
>list.  Further, if you are new to both, you are likely to damage something
>(most likely system security) in poking around to learn what's what.  And
>this sounds like it's supposed to be a production test system.

I agree with what Josh says here.

>If you have plenty of time, buy a book on BSD admin, and learn BSD before you
>try to learn Postgres on BSD.  Make sense?

For online resources: http://www.freebsd.org.

> > Although pgsql seems to be installed, I do not know why pgsql isn't running
> > or starting at the time the system comes up. It doesn't show up in the TOP
> > list.
>
>This would require a startup script wherever BSD keeps startup
>scripts.  I'm a
>Linux user, so I can't give you pointers on this one.  Suffice it to say that
>startup scripts are *not* part of the PostgreSQL install.

/usr/local/etc/rc.d would be where to look. If the former administrator
used ports or packages, the pkg_info command should give you details on
what is installed where (see the man page for details).

> > 3. I assume I can ensure I have the most recent installation support by
> > doing a cvsup but I really only want to get my hands on the most recent
> > pgsql for FreeBSD. How is this possible?

You will likely want to investigate the FreeBSD ports or packages
collections. Again, the FreeBSD project web site is a place to start.

>If you are a newbie, you should not be messing with Postgres-CVS.  Stick to a
>stable version instead, which is downloadable from the Postgres web site.

I would suggest either the port or package from FreeBSD. They should 'just
work' with little work.

>As I said above, I think you need a consultant.

I agree.


Mark
---
thomas@pbegames.com ----> http://www.pbegames.com/~thomas
Play by Electron Games -> http://www.pbegames.com Free Trial Games

At 10:14 AM 3/24/2003 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
>Tamir,
>
> > I've just been abandoned by my FreeBSD/PostgreSQL administrator just as we
> > were setting things up for our test server. I hope if I provide as much of
> > the specs as I can get my hands on, someone on the list will be able to
> > help me with my problem.
>
> From the rest of the description of your problem, you really need the
>assistance of a BSD admin at least.  That person can get help for the
>postgres-specific problems on this list or elsewhere, but assisting you with
>both Postgresql and with BSD is probably beyond the capability of any mailing
>list.  Further, if you are new to both, you are likely to damage something
>(most likely system security) in poking around to learn what's what.  And
>this sounds like it's supposed to be a production test system.

True this.  Tamir, I'd suggest you bite the bullet and contract a pro.

>If you have plenty of time, buy a book on BSD admin, and learn BSD before you
>try to learn Postgres on BSD.  Make sense?
>
> > Although pgsql seems to be installed, I do not know why pgsql isn't running
> > or starting at the time the system comes up. It doesn't show up in the TOP
> > list.
>
>This would require a startup script wherever BSD keeps startup
>scripts.  I'm a
>Linux user, so I can't give you pointers on this one.  Suffice it to say that
>startup scripts are *not* part of the PostgreSQL install.

Tamir,  when installed via ports, a startup script that needs minimal
editing will be placed in /usr/local/etc/rc.d


> > 3. I assume I can ensure I have the most recent installation support by
> > doing a cvsup but I really only want to get my hands on the most recent
> > pgsql for FreeBSD. How is this possible?
>
>If you are a newbie, you should not be messing with Postgres-CVS.  Stick to a
>stable version instead, which is downloadable from the Postgres web site.

Josh,  FreeBSD cvsup has nothing to do with CVS software.  It has to do
with upgrading the OS and/or applications.  The name is misleading.

Tamir, You can write a supfile that will only upgrade certain ports.


> > 4. We did minimal work on the previous version and I don't need to save any
> > of the data or configuration information as it may exist in various
> > configuration files throughout my FreeBSD system. How can I ensure that
> > I've removed all of these before I do my new installation?
>
>They will all be in the $PGDATA directory, database and config files both.
>
> > At a time like this I can not describe how grateful I would be for
> > someone's detailed and very patient assistance. I am truly a novice. If
> > this request belongs in a different group, then please do instruct me as to
> > which one.
>
>As I said above, I think you need a consultant.
>
>--
>Josh Berkus
>Aglio Database Solutions
>San Francisco
>
>
>---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
>TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
>subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
>message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Thanks for the insite, Rod.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rod Kreisler [mailto:rod@23net.net]
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 1:27 PM
> To: Josh Berkus; Tamir Halperin; pgsql-novice@postgresql.org
> Subject: Re: [NOVICE] From a real novice
>
>
> At 10:14 AM 3/24/2003 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
> >Tamir,
> >
> > > I've just been abandoned by my FreeBSD/PostgreSQL
> administrator just as we
> > > were setting things up for our test server. I hope if I
> provide as much of
> > > the specs as I can get my hands on, someone on the list
> will be able to
> > > help me with my problem.
> >
> > From the rest of the description of your problem, you
> really need the
> >assistance of a BSD admin at least.  That person can get help for the
> >postgres-specific problems on this list or elsewhere, but
> assisting you with
> >both Postgresql and with BSD is probably beyond the
> capability of any mailing
> >list.  Further, if you are new to both, you are likely to
> damage something
> >(most likely system security) in poking around to learn
> what's what.  And
> >this sounds like it's supposed to be a production test system.
>
> True this.  Tamir, I'd suggest you bite the bullet and contract a pro.

I was hoping for a little more optimism from the novice list and not such a rapid retort about that endlessly daunting
handbook.

> >If you have plenty of time, buy a book on BSD admin, and
> learn BSD before you
> >try to learn Postgres on BSD.  Make sense?
> >
> > > Although pgsql seems to be installed, I do not know why
> pgsql isn't running
> > > or starting at the time the system comes up. It doesn't
> show up in the TOP
> > > list.
> >
> >This would require a startup script wherever BSD keeps startup
> >scripts.  I'm a
> >Linux user, so I can't give you pointers on this one.
> Suffice it to say that
> >startup scripts are *not* part of the PostgreSQL install.
>
> Tamir,  when installed via ports, a startup script that needs minimal
> editing will be placed in /usr/local/etc/rc.d

My problem is that I can't get postgresql to install via the ports because it wants openssl to be installed. However, I
succesfullyinstalled openssl so I don't know where to go from here. It's not like I'm going to find a chapter in the
handbookthat describes what to do when an installation fails due to a dependancy on another package that is fully
installed.

> > > 3. I assume I can ensure I have the most recent
> installation support by
> > > doing a cvsup but I really only want to get my hands on
> the most recent
> > > pgsql for FreeBSD. How is this possible?
> >
> >If you are a newbie, you should not be messing with
> Postgres-CVS.  Stick to a
> >stable version instead, which is downloadable from the
> Postgres web site.
>
> Josh,  FreeBSD cvsup has nothing to do with CVS software.  It
> has to do
> with upgrading the OS and/or applications.  The name is misleading.

The issue of upgrading the system came up when someone suggested that I don't have crypto installed and that I
shouldn'ttry to mess with 4.6 any longer but rather just upgrade to 4.7 or 4.8 (as of today, I believe). 

Then came the issue of how to do that. I have read page after page of information on how to upgrade and there's just
nothingout there that I can make enough sense of. 

Some people learn a lot better by example rather than by formula. I'm one of them. But it appears the entire UNIX
communitystarted out with people who's brains not only understood formulas easily but even liked to build systems and
documentthem in heavily formulaic fashions. My challenge. 

So this is why I thought it would be useful to submit such questions to the novice list. What I'm really looking for, I
suppose,is someone who's willing to spend some time communicating things by example. Unfortunately, I have no budget
fora high priced consultant at this point. An equity partner in a very lucrative project yes! But not a payed
consultant.

> Tamir, You can write a supfile that will only upgrade certain ports.

Really? I thought you can only fine tune it down to the ports category level of granularity.

> > > 4. We did minimal work on the previous version and I
> don't need to save any
> > > of the data or configuration information as it may exist
> in various
> > > configuration files throughout my FreeBSD system. How can
> I ensure that
> > > I've removed all of these before I do my new installation?
> >
> >They will all be in the $PGDATA directory, database and
> config files both.
> >
> > > At a time like this I can not describe how grateful I would be for
> > > someone's detailed and very patient assistance. I am
> truly a novice. If
> > > this request belongs in a different group, then please do
> instruct me as to
> > > which one.
> >
> >As I said above, I think you need a consultant.
> >
> >--
> >Josh Berkus
> >Aglio Database Solutions
> >San Francisco
> >
> >
> >---------------------------(end of
> broadcast)---------------------------
> >TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
> >subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
> >message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
>
>
>

At 02:04 PM 3/24/2003 -0500, Tamir Halperin wrote:
>Thanks for the insite, Rod.

NP.



> >
> > Tamir,  when installed via ports, a startup script that needs minimal
> > editing will be placed in /usr/local/etc/rc.d
>
>My problem is that I can't get postgresql to install via the ports because
>it wants openssl to be installed. However, I succesfully installed openssl
>so I don't know where to go from here. It's not like I'm going to find a
>chapter in the handbook that describes what to do when an installation
>fails due to a dependancy on another package that is fully installed.

How did you install openSSL?  The port system tracks dependencies and
should've installed openSSL for you.


> > > > 3. I assume I can ensure I have the most recent
> > installation support by
> > > > doing a cvsup but I really only want to get my hands on
> > the most recent
> > > > pgsql for FreeBSD. How is this possible?
> > >
> > >If you are a newbie, you should not be messing with
> > Postgres-CVS.  Stick to a
> > >stable version instead, which is downloadable from the
> > Postgres web site.
> >
> > Josh,  FreeBSD cvsup has nothing to do with CVS software.  It
> > has to do
> > with upgrading the OS and/or applications.  The name is misleading.
>
>The issue of upgrading the system came up when someone suggested that I
>don't have crypto installed and that I shouldn't try to mess with 4.6 any
>longer but rather just upgrade to 4.7 or 4.8 (as of today, I believe).
>
>Then came the issue of how to do that. I have read page after page of
>information on how to upgrade and there's just nothing out there that I
>can make enough sense of.
>
>Some people learn a lot better by example rather than by formula. I'm one
>of them. But it appears the entire UNIX community started out with people
>who's brains not only understood formulas easily but even liked to build
>systems and document them in heavily formulaic fashions. My challenge.
>
>So this is why I thought it would be useful to submit such questions to
>the novice list. What I'm really looking for, I suppose, is someone who's
>willing to spend some time communicating things by example. Unfortunately,
>I have no budget for a high priced consultant at this point. An equity
>partner in a very lucrative project yes! But not a payed consultant.

I shouldn't imagine it would take too long for a skilled person to take
care of this for you -- a day at most, and could be done remotely if you
were available to be with the server at critical times.  What other apps do
you have installed?


> > Tamir, You can write a supfile that will only upgrade certain ports.
>
>Really? I thought you can only fine tune it down to the ports category
>level of granularity.

True, that's what I meant.  But I don't see why it's an issue.  CVSUP on
databases should only take a few minutes even on a slow dial-up --
depending on how long it's been since you've CVSUP'd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rod Kreisler [mailto:rod@23net.net]
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 2:13 PM
> To: Tamir Halperin; Josh Berkus; pgsql-novice@postgresql.org
> Subject: RE: [NOVICE] From a real novice
>
>
> At 02:04 PM 3/24/2003 -0500, Tamir Halperin wrote:
> >Thanks for the insite, Rod.
>
> NP.
>
>
>
> > >
> > > Tamir,  when installed via ports, a startup script that
> needs minimal
> > > editing will be placed in /usr/local/etc/rc.d
> >
> >My problem is that I can't get postgresql to install via the
> ports because
> >it wants openssl to be installed. However, I succesfully
> installed openssl
> >so I don't know where to go from here. It's not like I'm
> going to find a
> >chapter in the handbook that describes what to do when an
> installation
> >fails due to a dependancy on another package that is fully installed.
>
> How did you install openSSL?  The port system tracks dependencies and
> should've installed openSSL for you.

I installed OpenSSL via ports and without a hitch. But, should I see something that refers to openssl when I execute
TOP?If so, then I don't and something is not right. 

Also, and I'll paste this from another email I received on a different list,
DM> Aha. This seems to be a fault in /usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk around line 930
DM>
DM> .if defined(USE_OPENSSL)
DM> .if ${OSVERSION} >= 400014
DM> .if !exists(/usr/lib/libcrypto.so)
DM> .BEGIN:
DM>         @${ECHO_CMD} "This port requires the OpenSSL library, which is part of"
DM>         @${ECHO_CMD} "the FreeBSD crypto distribution but not installed on your"
DM>
DM> You may try to play with symlinks, but I suppose more natural way is to upgrade
DM> your system to at least 4.6 security branch and install OpenSSL from base
DM> system.
DM>
DM> The last note: you can also re-install openssl port (pkg_delete previous
DM> installation first) within base:
DM>
DM> cd /usr/ports/security/openssl
DM> make OPENSSL_OVERWRITE_BASE=yes
DM> make install

and to which I replied:

TH> After following your instructions regarding the deinstallation of the openssl package and then reinstalling it with
make
TH> OPENSSL_OVERWRITE_BASE=yes, I still get the same message when executing make in the
/usr/ports/databases/postgresql7
TH> directory that tells me I need to first install openssl.
TH>
TH> Here's the output of ldconfig -r | grep crypt:
TH>
TH>     1:-lcrypt.2 => /usr/lib/libcrypt.so.2
TH>     110:-lcrypto.2 => /usr/local/lib/libcrypto.so.2
TH>     111:-lcrypto.3 => /usr/local/lib/libcrypto.so.3
TH>     117:-lmcrypt.8 => /usr/local/lib/libmcrypt.so.8
TH>
TH> I'm sure there's a solution to using postgresql 7.3.2 with openssl. I just don't have it.

> >The issue of upgrading the system came up when someone
> suggested that I
> >don't have crypto installed and that I shouldn't try to mess
> with 4.6 any
> >longer but rather just upgrade to 4.7 or 4.8 (as of today, I
> believe).
> >
> >Then came the issue of how to do that. I have read page
> after page of
> >information on how to upgrade and there's just nothing out
> there that I
> >can make enough sense of.
> >
> >Some people learn a lot better by example rather than by
> formula. I'm one
> >of them. But it appears the entire UNIX community started
> out with people
> >who's brains not only understood formulas easily but even
> liked to build
> >systems and document them in heavily formulaic fashions. My
> challenge.
> >
> >So this is why I thought it would be useful to submit such
> questions to
> >the novice list. What I'm really looking for, I suppose, is
> someone who's
> >willing to spend some time communicating things by example.
> Unfortunately,
> >I have no budget for a high priced consultant at this point.
> An equity
> >partner in a very lucrative project yes! But not a payed consultant.

After reading what I wrote it sounds like I was slammin you guys for being unhelpful. Not my aim at all.

> I shouldn't imagine it would take too long for a skilled
> person to take
> care of this for you -- a day at most, and could be done
> remotely if you
> were available to be with the server at critical times.  What
> other apps do
> you have installed?
>
>
> > > Tamir, You can write a supfile that will only upgrade
> certain ports.
> >
> >Really? I thought you can only fine tune it down to the
> ports category
> >level of granularity.
>
> True, that's what I meant.  But I don't see why it's an
> issue.  CVSUP on
> databases should only take a few minutes even on a slow dial-up --
> depending on how long it's been since you've CVSUP'd

I just did an entire cvsup on my whole supfile. It took about 25 minutes because it was in fact a long time since I did
itlast. I'm attaching my list of packages. 

>
>
>
>
>