Thread: Developing a forms based web application
Hi,
I am looking for some advice on how to best create a web enabled forms based application. If anybody has any ideas it would be greatly appreciated.
I have an MS Access forms application that now sports a Postgres database at the back end running under RedHat 8.0. I would like to redevelop the Access form to web enable it. I have played around with Perl and PHP and although I’m sure I could rewrite the application in either of these languages doing so looks a little tedious.
Maybe I should be looking at OpenAcs, AOLserver and Postgres. But, then maybe I’m on the wrong track altogether. Is there some sort of forms based web application? I have seen one called DBForms, however, it appears to be based on server side Java. I would prefer to stay away from Java if I can.
Does anybody have any advice for me, please?
Steve McAllister
Outsourcing Solutions Consultant
Phone: 61 3 9631 1714
Mobile 61 414 311 677
E-mail: steve_mcallister@kaz.com.au
Send reply to: <stevemca@optushome.com.au> From: "Steve McAllister" <stevemca@optushome.com.au> To: <pgsql-novice@postgresql.org> Subject: [NOVICE] Developing a forms based web application Date sent: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:14:27 +1100 Aolserver is a webserver, so not a direct solution to your needs OpenAcs is an Open source Content Management/ web publishing set up that uses postgres, not sure how this would help you, and if it did it would probably be a sledgehammer approach. For a quick way to go online I would use php, its pg library is fast and effective for this sort of work, I'm sure a Perl script would work as well. You'll have to take into consideration how important state and concurrency is in the php side of things (ie whether you need to use sessions etc, user authentication, artifacts of the web environment) which is distinct from the persistent side of things that postgres handles so well Rewriting applications is usually tedious and rarely direct, but there you go HTH Paul Butler HTH Hi, I am looking for some advice on how to best create a web enabled forms based application. If anybody has any ideas it would be greatly appreciated. I have an MS Access forms application that now sports a Postgres database at the back end running under RedHat 8.0. I would like to redevelop the Access form to web enable it. I have played around with Perl and PHP and although I'm sure I could rewrite the application in either of these languages doing so looks a little tedious. Maybe I should be looking at OpenAcs, AOLserver and Postgres. But, then maybe I'm on the wrong track altogether. Is there some sort of forms based web application? I have seen one called DBForms, however, it appears to be based on server side Java. I would prefer to stay away from Java if I can. Does anybody have any advice for me, please? Steve McAllister Outsourcing Solutions Consultant Phone: 61 3 9631 1714 Mobile 61 414 311 677 E-mail: steve_mcallister@kaz.com.au
Thanks for the response Paul. I should at the outset state I am proficient in neither PHP, perl or indeed HTML. I understand this is not a good base to start from when developing web applications, but, I am keen to learn. I have tried a few test scripts with both perl and PHP including using the pg library to access records. However it is not immediately obvious to me how I could produce clean and efficient code using either of these languages. I have seen how this type of code can be used to generate dynamic pages, but, to move forward from a dynamically generated page to a fully interactive screen, at this stage appears to be tedious and will produce a tangled mess of pages. I have done a fair amount of reading on HTML over the last few days and I must say it appears HTML is all about jumping into vi and writing <head> <p> <br> </br> etc etc etc. It takes me back to the days when I used to write native LATEX about twenty years ago. Surely the world has moved on from then. I am sure I must be missing something somewhere. On the upside I have many years of programming in FORTRAN77, Algol, Pascal and of course Unix shell scripts. Oops I probably shouldn't have mentioned that I suppose, now you know I am a survivor from the Ark. However, I do have some 12 years or so grounding in Oracle, so the Postgres stuff has been a breeze (well maybe not a breeze :-). If PHP and perl are indeed the way to go I will take up the details with some of the PHP and perl support groups and stop boring people here. Before I do so though, would you satisfy my main concern? My application is a typical Access forms type application. i.e throw up a screen of controls with some action buttons, list boxes etc. Let the user select from a list or press a button then retrieve some data, calculate some controls and allow them to edit some fields, press some more buttons etc. etc. Can I emulate as much as possible this type of functionality using PHP or perl and the pg library or am I into a new paradigm here? Will HTML et al force me into a different type of program flow/architecture? I would appreciate any advice. Steve McAllister Outsourcing Solutions Consultant Phone: 61 3 9631 1714 Mobile 61 414 311 677 E-mail: steve_mcallister@kaz.com.au -----Original Message----- From: pgsql-novice-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-novice-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of paul butler Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 9:04 PM To: Steve McAllister Cc: pgsql-novice@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [NOVICE] Developing a forms based web application Send reply to: <stevemca@optushome.com.au> From: "Steve McAllister" <stevemca@optushome.com.au> To: <pgsql-novice@postgresql.org> Subject: [NOVICE] Developing a forms based web application Date sent: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:14:27 +1100 Aolserver is a webserver, so not a direct solution to your needs OpenAcs is an Open source Content Management/ web publishing set up that uses postgres, not sure how this would help you, and if it did it would probably be a sledgehammer approach. For a quick way to go online I would use php, its pg library is fast and effective for this sort of work, I'm sure a Perl script would work as well. You'll have to take into consideration how important state and concurrency is in the php side of things (ie whether you need to use sessions etc, user authentication, artifacts of the web environment) which is distinct from the persistent side of things that postgres handles so well Rewriting applications is usually tedious and rarely direct, but there you go HTH Paul Butler HTH Hi, I am looking for some advice on how to best create a web enabled forms based application. If anybody has any ideas it would be greatly appreciated. I have an MS Access forms application that now sports a Postgres database at the back end running under RedHat 8.0. I would like to redevelop the Access form to web enable it. I have played around with Perl and PHP and although I'm sure I could rewrite the application in either of these languages doing so looks a little tedious. Maybe I should be looking at OpenAcs, AOLserver and Postgres. But, then maybe I'm on the wrong track altogether. Is there some sort of forms based web application? I have seen one called DBForms, however, it appears to be based on server side Java. I would prefer to stay away from Java if I can. Does anybody have any advice for me, please? Steve McAllister Outsourcing Solutions Consultant Phone: 61 3 9631 1714 Mobile 61 414 311 677 E-mail: steve_mcallister@kaz.com.au ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org
Send reply to: <stevemca@optushome.com.au> From: "Steve McAllister" <stevemca@optushome.com.au> To: <pgsql-novice@postgresql.org> Subject: Re: [NOVICE] Developing a forms based web application Date sent: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 22:44:34 +1100 This is the sort of thing I try to charge for :) All I can offer is a few pointers First thought is If you're using an access front end why not just connect that to the remote database? If your isp will allow it, this seems the most direct route to me. Just distribute an mde. file of the front end. Other thoughts Html is not best suited for access style forms, if you've got a fast connection and plenty of php pages you could simulate something interactive, but when things start getting complex I can't say I'd reccommend php. Its strength is in its libraries and convenience for simple web apps. you can muck about with javascript to work interactively on the client (but only with a retreived dataset, not with the online data itself) but this is not a particularrly robust (or easy) solution especially if you can't control which client is going to be used. Java applets embedded in an html (though terribly out of fashion) can give you an interactive, stateful connection but learning java is going to take a fair amount of time and effort and again the client can cause problems (different vm, jits etc mean its write once, test everywhere.) As you are going from Access forms, I think .net web forms might be the answer to your problem, though what .net is and how useable it is at this stage is not something I'd like to comment on, the whole .net 'marketecture' leaves my head spinning though one of its goals is distributed computing and language independence (there is .cobol for .net I beleive). If I was to think about the the quickest way of doing this I would go for a python/wxpython custom client to connect to the database securely. If you've used a computer before (as you obviously have) python will be no problem and clean and efficient code is its strength.wxpython gives a pretty slick interface to it. The majority of the list will know far more about this than I do and I look forward to other responses. HTH Paul Butler > Thanks for the response Paul. > > I should at the outset state I am proficient in neither PHP, perl or > indeed HTML. I understand this is not a good base to start from when > developing web applications, but, I am keen to learn. > > I have tried a few test scripts with both perl and PHP including using > the pg library to access records. However it is not immediately obvious > to me how I could produce clean and efficient code using either of these > languages. I have seen how this type of code can be used to generate > dynamic pages, but, to move forward from a dynamically generated page to > a fully interactive screen, at this stage appears to be tedious and will > produce a tangled mess of pages. > > I have done a fair amount of reading on HTML over the last few days and > I must say it appears HTML is all about jumping into vi and writing > <head> <p> <br> </br> etc etc etc. It takes me back to the days when I > used to write native LATEX about twenty years ago. Surely the world has > moved on from then. I am sure I must be missing something somewhere. > > On the upside I have many years of programming in FORTRAN77, Algol, > Pascal and of course Unix shell scripts. Oops I probably shouldn't have > mentioned that I suppose, now you know I am a survivor from the Ark. > > However, I do have some 12 years or so grounding in Oracle, so the > Postgres stuff has been a breeze (well maybe not a breeze :-). If PHP > and perl are indeed the way to go I will take up the details with some > of the PHP and perl support groups and stop boring people here. Before I > do so though, would you satisfy my main concern? > > My application is a typical Access forms type application. i.e throw up > a screen of controls with some action buttons, list boxes etc. Let the > user select from a list or press a button then retrieve some data, > calculate some controls and allow them to edit some fields, press some > more buttons etc. etc. > > Can I emulate as much as possible this type of functionality using PHP > or perl and the pg library or am I into a new paradigm here? Will HTML > et al force me into a different type of program flow/architecture? > > I would appreciate any advice. > > Steve McAllister > Outsourcing Solutions Consultant > > Phone: 61 3 9631 1714 > Mobile 61 414 311 677 > E-mail: steve_mcallister@kaz.com.au > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pgsql-novice-owner@postgresql.org > [mailto:pgsql-novice-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of paul butler > Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 9:04 PM > To: Steve McAllister > Cc: pgsql-novice@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [NOVICE] Developing a forms based web application > > Send reply to: <stevemca@optushome.com.au> > From: "Steve McAllister" <stevemca@optushome.com.au> > To: <pgsql-novice@postgresql.org> > Subject: [NOVICE] Developing a forms based web > application > Date sent: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:14:27 +1100 > > > Aolserver is a webserver, so not a direct solution to your needs > OpenAcs is an Open source Content Management/ web publishing > set up that uses postgres, not sure how this would help you, and if > it did it would probably be a sledgehammer approach. > > For a quick way to go online I would use php, its pg library is fast > and effective for this sort of work, I'm sure a Perl script would work > as well. > You'll have to take into consideration how important state and > concurrency is in the php side of things (ie whether you need to > use sessions etc, user authentication, artifacts of the web > environment) which is distinct from the persistent side of things > that postgres handles so well > > Rewriting applications is usually tedious and rarely direct, but there > you go > > HTH > > Paul Butler > > HTH > > Hi, > > > > I am looking for some advice on how to best create a web enabled forms > based application. If anybody has any ideas it would be greatly > appreciated. > > > > I have an MS Access forms application that now sports a Postgres > database at the back end running under RedHat 8.0. I would like to > redevelop the Access form to web enable it. I have played around with > Perl and PHP and although I'm sure I could rewrite the application in > either of these languages doing so looks a little tedious. > > > > Maybe I should be looking at OpenAcs, AOLserver and Postgres. But, then > maybe I'm on the wrong track altogether. Is there some sort of forms > based web application? I have seen one called DBForms, however, it > appears to be based on server side Java. I would prefer to stay away > from Java if I can. > > > > Does anybody have any advice for me, please? > > > > > > Steve McAllister > > Outsourcing Solutions Consultant > > > > Phone: 61 3 9631 1714 > > Mobile 61 414 311 677 > > E-mail: steve_mcallister@kaz.com.au > > > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? > > http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Hi Steve ! If you are willing to spend some money on this, please have look at MacroMedia's ( former Allaire ) ColdFusion for Linux. cfml (ColdFusionMarkupLanguage) is easy to learn, fast and straight-forward, yet powerful tool for even more complex web-applications. And there are plenty of editors, for writing and generating the 'code' + html, like ColdFusion Studio ( ok, you'll need one win-box for that ). One neat feature is that cfml goes right into html like php but the syntax is much simpler. And you can also use JavaScript where you like etc. The server even generates form validation scripts for you. I have used CF Pro Linux + RH + PgSQL for a year and half now, and when I started I would not have dreamed of things I do with it now. You can generate your forms 'on the fly' and populate them with data, list-boxes, radio buttons, action buttons, almost anything goes, interacting with mail servers and so on. I've had no problems with the software, other than unexpetedly high traffic and that was solved with tuning and raising the number of servers to start and connections limits in CF + Apache + Pg. My databases are small and quite simple ones, the biggest just under 20 000 rows, so I do not have experience with really big dbs, I admit, but have a look anyway. Best regards, aarni On Wednesday 29 January 2003 01:44 pm, you wrote: > Thanks for the response Paul. > > I should at the outset state I am proficient in neither PHP, perl or > indeed HTML. I understand this is not a good base to start from when > developing web applications, but, I am keen to learn. > > I have tried a few test scripts with both perl and PHP including using > the pg library to access records. However it is not immediately obvious > to me how I could produce clean and efficient code using either of these > languages. I have seen how this type of code can be used to generate > dynamic pages, but, to move forward from a dynamically generated page to > a fully interactive screen, at this stage appears to be tedious and will > produce a tangled mess of pages. > > I have done a fair amount of reading on HTML over the last few days and > I must say it appears HTML is all about jumping into vi and writing > <head> <p> <br> </br> etc etc etc. It takes me back to the days when I > used to write native LATEX about twenty years ago. Surely the world has > moved on from then. I am sure I must be missing something somewhere. > > On the upside I have many years of programming in FORTRAN77, Algol, > Pascal and of course Unix shell scripts. Oops I probably shouldn't have > mentioned that I suppose, now you know I am a survivor from the Ark. > > However, I do have some 12 years or so grounding in Oracle, so the > Postgres stuff has been a breeze (well maybe not a breeze :-). If PHP > and perl are indeed the way to go I will take up the details with some > of the PHP and perl support groups and stop boring people here. Before I > do so though, would you satisfy my main concern? > > My application is a typical Access forms type application. i.e throw up > a screen of controls with some action buttons, list boxes etc. Let the > user select from a list or press a button then retrieve some data, > calculate some controls and allow them to edit some fields, press some > more buttons etc. etc. > > Can I emulate as much as possible this type of functionality using PHP > or perl and the pg library or am I into a new paradigm here? Will HTML > et al force me into a different type of program flow/architecture? > > I would appreciate any advice. > > Steve McAllister > Outsourcing Solutions Consultant > > Phone: 61 3 9631 1714 > Mobile 61 414 311 677 > E-mail: steve_mcallister@kaz.com.au > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pgsql-novice-owner@postgresql.org > [mailto:pgsql-novice-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of paul butler > Sent: Wednesday, 29 January 2003 9:04 PM > To: Steve McAllister > Cc: pgsql-novice@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [NOVICE] Developing a forms based web application > > Send reply to: <stevemca@optushome.com.au> > From: "Steve McAllister" <stevemca@optushome.com.au> > To: <pgsql-novice@postgresql.org> > Subject: [NOVICE] Developing a forms based web > application > Date sent: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:14:27 +1100 > > > Aolserver is a webserver, so not a direct solution to your needs > OpenAcs is an Open source Content Management/ web publishing > set up that uses postgres, not sure how this would help you, and if > it did it would probably be a sledgehammer approach. > > For a quick way to go online I would use php, its pg library is fast > and effective for this sort of work, I'm sure a Perl script would work > as well. > You'll have to take into consideration how important state and > concurrency is in the php side of things (ie whether you need to > use sessions etc, user authentication, artifacts of the web > environment) which is distinct from the persistent side of things > that postgres handles so well > > Rewriting applications is usually tedious and rarely direct, but there > you go > > HTH > > Paul Butler > > HTH > > Hi, > > > > I am looking for some advice on how to best create a web enabled forms > based application. If anybody has any ideas it would be greatly > appreciated. > > > > I have an MS Access forms application that now sports a Postgres > database at the back end running under RedHat 8.0. I would like to > redevelop the Access form to web enable it. I have played around with > Perl and PHP and although I'm sure I could rewrite the application in > either of these languages doing so looks a little tedious. > > > > Maybe I should be looking at OpenAcs, AOLserver and Postgres. But, then > maybe I'm on the wrong track altogether. Is there some sort of forms > based web application? I have seen one called DBForms, however, it > appears to be based on server side Java. I would prefer to stay away > from Java if I can. > > > > Does anybody have any advice for me, please? > > > > > > Steve McAllister > > Outsourcing Solutions Consultant > > > > Phone: 61 3 9631 1714 > > Mobile 61 414 311 677 > > E-mail: steve_mcallister@kaz.com.au > > > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? > > http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
From: Aarni Ruuhimäki <aarni.ruuhimaki@kymi.com> Send reply to: aarni.ruuhimaki@kymi.com Organization: KYMI.com To: <stevemca@optushome.com.au> Subject: Re: [NOVICE] Developing a forms based web application Date sent: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:49:32 +0200 Copies to: pgsql-novice@postgresql.org Completely forgot about cold fusion, haven't used it since 4.5, MX is touted as a friendly j2ee front end. Definitely worth a look, easy to get into but again, the level of client interactivity you get from an access form/app will require a bit of work. > Hi Steve ! > > If you are willing to spend some money on this, please have look at > MacroMedia's ( former Allaire ) ColdFusion for Linux. > > cfml (ColdFusionMarkupLanguage) is easy to learn, fast and straight-forward, > yet powerful tool for even more complex web-applications. And there are > plenty of editors, for writing and generating the 'code' + html, like > ColdFusion Studio ( ok, you'll need one win-box for that ). One neat feature > is that cfml goes right into html like php but the syntax is much simpler. > And you can also use JavaScript where you like etc. The server even generates > form validation scripts for you. > > I have used CF Pro Linux + RH + PgSQL for a year and half now, and when I > started I would not have dreamed of things I do with it now. > > You can generate your forms 'on the fly' and populate them with data, > list-boxes, radio buttons, action buttons, almost anything goes, interacting > with mail servers and so on. > > I've had no problems with the software, other than unexpetedly high traffic > and that was solved with tuning and raising the number of servers to start > and connections limits in CF + Apache + Pg. My databases are small and quite > simple ones, the biggest just under 20 000 rows, so I do not have experience > with really big dbs, I admit, but have a look anyway. > > Best regards, > > aarni >
Also worth a look is Code Charge Studio by Yes Software.
I have been using it for the past year on Postgres, PHP templates, and found it to be a very powerful tool.
New version release in 1st Quarter 2003 will include editable grids(editable/updateable record sets), which are similar to what I see Access froms showing, possibly one way to reproduce Access functionality.
You can down load a 30day trial version.....Ver 2 Beta is avail for trial so you could look at the editable grid functionality.
Its a new product, documentation for ver 1 was a disastor, apparently major work happening in this area.
Also has a fast growing user group, checkout,
http://codechargers.net
paul butler wrote:
I have been using it for the past year on Postgres, PHP templates, and found it to be a very powerful tool.
New version release in 1st Quarter 2003 will include editable grids(editable/updateable record sets), which are similar to what I see Access froms showing, possibly one way to reproduce Access functionality.
You can down load a 30day trial version.....Ver 2 Beta is avail for trial so you could look at the editable grid functionality.
Its a new product, documentation for ver 1 was a disastor, apparently major work happening in this area.
Also has a fast growing user group, checkout,
http://codechargers.net
paul butler wrote:
From: Aarni Ruuhimäki <aarni.ruuhimaki@kymi.com> Send reply to: aarni.ruuhimaki@kymi.com Organization: KYMI.com To: <stevemca@optushome.com.au> Subject: Re: [NOVICE] Developing a forms based web application Date sent: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:49:32 +0200 Copies to: pgsql-novice@postgresql.org Completely forgot about cold fusion, haven't used it since 4.5, MX is touted as a friendly j2ee front end. Definitely worth a look, easy to get into but again, the level of client interactivity you get from an access form/app will require a bit of work.Hi Steve ! If you are willing to spend some money on this, please have look at MacroMedia's ( former Allaire ) ColdFusion for Linux. cfml (ColdFusionMarkupLanguage) is easy to learn, fast and straight-forward, yet powerful tool for even more complex web-applications. And there are plenty of editors, for writing and generating the 'code' + html, like ColdFusion Studio ( ok, you'll need one win-box for that ). One neat feature is that cfml goes right into html like php but the syntax is much simpler. And you can also use JavaScript where you like etc. The server even generates form validation scripts for you. I have used CF Pro Linux + RH + PgSQL for a year and half now, and when I started I would not have dreamed of things I do with it now. You can generate your forms 'on the fly' and populate them with data, list-boxes, radio buttons, action buttons, almost anything goes, interacting with mail servers and so on. I've had no problems with the software, other than unexpetedly high traffic and that was solved with tuning and raising the number of servers to start and connections limits in CF + Apache + Pg. My databases are small and quite simple ones, the biggest just under 20 000 rows, so I do not have experience with really big dbs, I admit, but have a look anyway. Best regards, aarni---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org
I would prefer to stay away from Java if I can. ------------- If in the future you have a chance of scaling the application up to real enterprise system, moving your web app to a different OS, ... Java is the best approach. I could talk about advantages of Java for a long time. There are also a couple of disadvantages, however: 1) Perfect for server-side and currently the only real applet option, but not perfect on client side in its standards-based shape (swing, awt). I'm sure you'll see a lot of improvements on the client side too, however, both in swing, and in alternative approaches very soon. Besides, you always have JNI to couple your Java with native code. 2) A little bit of a learning curve, especially as you move from simple web applications to real J2EE. To wrap up, this might be a radical vision, but to me it appears the future currently lies in Java and .Net, each with its own set of +s and -s. Since .Net is not portable and not scalable, and is in fact a Windows-based copy of Java, I stay a staunch supporter of Java. Sincerely, r.
> To wrap up, this might be a radical vision, but to me it appears the
> future currently lies in Java and .Net, each with its own set
> of +s and
> -s. Since .Net is not portable and not scalable, and is in fact a
> Windows-based copy of Java, I stay a staunch supporter of Java.
Mono (http://www.go-mono.com/) is very much a portable version of dotNet - check it out it's really impressive!
(i'm not trying to get into a dotNet-Vs-Java thread, so let's not start ;)
...
Steve, i'm not sure what you exactly want, so let me see if I get this straight.
You have a Access DB app has had the backend ported to PostgreSQL.
You want to add functionality to this to allow this application to be accessable via the web. -( web'ise it )
You need to find out about DB application tools to do this. -( rewrite it )
So...
Have you looked into dotNet? - writting web applications is as easy as writting a VB applications.
- All the client side Javascript and server side ASP can be automatically created for you.
Staying with VB, (in one form or another is probably a lot less work that a total rewrite in PHP, Perl, Java, et.al.
Maybe even keep the code you've got,
I have not used the latest Version of MS Access but I would be suprised if it didn't allow you to do the same. - publish/covert to a web application.
Mike Weaver.