Thread: hibernate + postgresql ?

Hello,

any exprerience with Hibernate + PostgreSQL ? How does this combination
is flexible and smart ? Is't possible to tune selected queries ?

     Regards,
         Oleg
_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru),
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia
Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83

i have experience with Hibernate and postggresql, what information are you exactly looking for?

Oleg Bartunov ha scritto:
> Hello,
>
> any exprerience with Hibernate + PostgreSQL ? How does this combination
> is flexible and smart ? Is't possible to tune selected queries ?
>
You can evaluate also JPA, openJPA (http://openjpa.apache.org/) seems
good but now I have only simple query on it.

Edoardo




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Oleg Bartunov wrote:
> Hello,
>
> any exprerience with Hibernate + PostgreSQL ? How does this combination
> is flexible and smart ? Is't possible to tune selected queries ?

In short, it sucks :).

Long description: Hibernate is a mature ORM for Java. It is in use with
PostgreSQL in quite a few installations and even a bunch that we are
responsible for. It does work as well as any ORM can work.

The problem is, its an ORM and ORMs are dumb in there actual ability to
work with any real relational database.

If you are not lazy you can push outside the standard hibernate methods
and produce very usable code but then you have to wonder why you have
hibernate there at all.


Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


>
>     Regards,
>         Oleg
> _____________________________________________________________
> Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru),
> Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia
> Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
> phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
>

i has exactly the same discussion with a bunch of java developers over the use of Hibernate with Postgres, and most of them feel that it gives them the ability to write code and not worry about which backend will be plugged in Oracle or postgres or Mysql and any other, if you are using it with something like spring you just need to change a bunch of xml files and you are good to go . i guess its the java school of thought they like to be *platform independent*




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On Thu, 29 Nov 2007, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> Oleg Bartunov wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> any exprerience with Hibernate + PostgreSQL ? How does this combination
>> is flexible and smart ? Is't possible to tune selected queries ?
>
> In short, it sucks :).
>
> Long description: Hibernate is a mature ORM for Java. It is in use with
> PostgreSQL in quite a few installations and even a bunch that we are
> responsible for. It does work as well as any ORM can work.
>
> The problem is, its an ORM and ORMs are dumb in there actual ability to work
> with any real relational database.
>
> If you are not lazy you can push outside the standard hibernate methods and
> produce very usable code but then you have to wonder why you have hibernate
> there at all.

Thank you, that's what I'm afraid for.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Joshua D. Drake
>
>
>>
>>     Regards,
>>         Oleg
>> _____________________________________________________________
>> Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru),
>> Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia
>> Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
>> phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83
>>
>> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
>> TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
>
>              http://archives.postgresql.org/
>

     Regards,
         Oleg
_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru),
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia
Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83

On Thursday 29 November 2007 Joshua D. Drake's cat, walking on the keyboard,
wrote:
> If you are not lazy you can push outside the standard hibernate methods
> and produce very usable code but then you have to wonder why you have
> hibernate there at all.

What do you mean with this? I think ORM could save developers' time especially
when there are a lot of relationships among objects, that should be manually
mapped thru SQL statements. Now what do you mean with "push outside hibernate
methods"? You write the each SQL statement or simply skip some Hibernate
facilities?

Thanks,
Luca

On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 08:10:11AM +0100, Luca Ferrari wrote:
> On Thursday 29 November 2007 Joshua D. Drake's cat, walking on the keyboard,
> wrote:
> > If you are not lazy you can push outside the standard hibernate
> > methods and produce very usable code but then you have to wonder
> > why you have hibernate there at all.
>
> What do you mean with this? I think ORM could save developers' time
> especially when there are a lot of relationships among objects, that
> should be manually mapped thru SQL statements.

You'd only think so if you hadn't actually seen these things in
action.  They save no time because of the silly, unreasonable
assumptions underlying them, which in turn cause people to do silly,
unreasonable things in order to make them "work."

> Now what do you mean with "push outside hibernate methods"?  You
> write the each SQL statement or simply skip some Hibernate
> facilities?

You'll wind up writing each SQL statement anyway, so just start out
with that rather than imagining that a piece of software can pick the
appropriate level of abstraction and then finding out that it can't. :)

Cheers,
David.
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Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com

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On Saturday 1 December 2007 David Fetter's cat, walking on the keyboard,
wrote:
> You'd only think so if you hadn't actually seen these things in
> action.  They save no time because of the silly, unreasonable
> assumptions underlying them, which in turn cause people to do silly,
> unreasonable things in order to make them "work."
>

I guess this is a problem you can have with all the middlewares, since they
can improve things putting on abstractions, but when they start doing things
in a way that is not tied to the lower level they must be general and start
imposing a methodology rather than a technology. By the way, is there
something in particular you are talking about?


> You'll wind up writing each SQL statement anyway, so just start out
> with that rather than imagining that a piece of software can pick the
> appropriate level of abstraction and then finding out that it can't. :)

Uhm...even if you write the SQL statements by hand you will end up (probabily)
writing your own piece of software that gives you any kind of abstraction, so
there's a risk you can find it inadeguate too later in the development
process. By the way I don't still understand if you find them inadeguate
because you'll write SQL statements to keep performances, data integrity,
both.....


Luca