Thread: BUG #5087: Submitted bug reports not showing up in a timely manner (or at all)

The following bug has been logged online:

Bug reference:      5087
Logged by:          Andrew Gierth
Email address:      andrew@tao11.riddles.org.uk
PostgreSQL version: any
Operating system:   any
Description:        Submitted bug reports not showing up in a timely manner
(or at all)
Details:

Bug reports from users who are non-subscribers to pgsql-bugs, or who use a
different email address when filling in the bug report form, are not being
processed in a reliable or timely manner.

To pick a recent case, bug #5085 was submitted by an IRC user (at my
suggestion) at 2009-09-28 22:12 +0000, or a bit over 22 hours ago as I write
this; it has yet to appear. This isn't an isolated case; I regularly refer
IRC users with bug reports to the reporting form, and I estimate that more
than one-third of those reports never show up.

2009/9/29 Andrew Gierth <andrew@tao11.riddles.org.uk>:
>
> The following bug has been logged online:
>
> Bug reference: =A0 =A0 =A05087
> Logged by: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Andrew Gierth
> Email address: =A0 =A0 =A0andrew@tao11.riddles.org.uk
> PostgreSQL version: any
> Operating system: =A0 any
> Description: =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Submitted bug reports not showing up in a tim=
ely manner
> (or at all)
> Details:
>
> Bug reports from users who are non-subscribers to pgsql-bugs, or who use a
> different email address when filling in the bug report form, are not being
> processed in a reliable or timely manner.
>
> To pick a recent case, bug #5085 was submitted by an IRC user (at my
> suggestion) at 2009-09-28 22:12 +0000, or a bit over 22 hours ago as I wr=
ite
> this; it has yet to appear. This isn't an isolated case; I regularly refer
> IRC users with bug reports to the reporting form, and I estimate that more
> than one-third of those reports never show up.

They get processed in the moderator queue of -bugs along with all
other posts there... We're probably just back in the situation where
we need more moderators for it...


--=20
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: http://www.hagander.net/
 Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:33:09PM +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> 2009/9/29 Andrew Gierth <andrew@tao11.riddles.org.uk>:
> >
> > To pick a recent case, bug #5085 was submitted by an IRC user (at my
> > suggestion) at 2009-09-28 22:12 +0000, or a bit over 22 hours ago as I write
> > this; it has yet to appear. This isn't an isolated case; I regularly refer
> > IRC users with bug reports to the reporting form, and I estimate that more
> > than one-third of those reports never show up.
>
> They get processed in the moderator queue of -bugs along with all
> other posts there... We're probably just back in the situation where
> we need more moderators for it...

I'd be happy to be added as moderator for -bugs or any other list that
needs love.  I already do -general and sfpug, so this shouldn't be
much extra work :)

Cheers,
David.
--
David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com

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On Tue, 2009-09-29 at 13:36 -0700, David Fetter wrote:
> I'd be happy to be added as moderator for -bug

I'd be happy to quit moderating this list (I'm serious).
--
Devrim GÜNDÜZ, RHCE
Command Prompt - http://www.CommandPrompt.com
devrim~gunduz.org, devrim~PostgreSQL.org, devrim.gunduz~linux.org.tr
http://www.gunduz.org  Twitter: http://twitter.com/devrimgunduz

Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> writes:
> 2009/9/29 Andrew Gierth <andrew@tao11.riddles.org.uk>:
>> To pick a recent case, bug #5085 was submitted by an IRC user (at my
>> suggestion) at 2009-09-28 22:12 +0000, or a bit over 22 hours ago as I write
>> this; it has yet to appear. This isn't an isolated case; I regularly refer
>> IRC users with bug reports to the reporting form, and I estimate that more
>> than one-third of those reports never show up.

> They get processed in the moderator queue of -bugs along with all
> other posts there... We're probably just back in the situation where
> we need more moderators for it...

A quick grep in my mail logs shows that since Jan 1, I have received 440
bug-reporter emails, bearing numbers from 4598 to 5087 (a range of 490
numbers).  So Andrew's "one-third" is a large exaggeration, but we do
seem to be dropping about one-tenth of the traffic.  I suppose some part
of what gets submitted is spam that the moderators rightfully reject;
would anyone who's seen the raw data care to comment on whether 10%
sounds right?

            regards, tom lane

>>>>> "Tom" == Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> writes:

 >> They get processed in the moderator queue of -bugs along with all
 >> other posts there... We're probably just back in the situation
 >> where we need more moderators for it...

 Tom> A quick grep in my mail logs shows that since Jan 1, I have
 Tom> received 440 bug-reporter emails, bearing numbers from 4598 to
 Tom> 5087 (a range of 490 numbers).  So Andrew's "one-third" is a
 Tom> large exaggeration,

My "one-third" figure is out of those cases where I say to someone on
IRC, "you need to submit this as a bug", they say "ok, I filled in the
reporting form and it gave me number #nnnn". This sample is probably
quite biased against people who would already have been subscribed to
the -bugs list.

(In most cases I encourage people to submit their own bugs rather than
trying to own the issue for them. If it looks important, I do try and
make sure that they subscribe to -bugs first; but I can't guarantee
that they do, and nor am I in a position to track the issue to make
sure it really does show up. The one-third figure is only an impression
based on the number of cases in which I am later reminded of the bug and
go back to look for it.)

--
Andrew (irc:RhodiumToad)

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:33:09PM +0200, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> > To pick a recent case, bug #5085 was submitted by an IRC user (at my
> > suggestion) at 2009-09-28 22:12 +0000, or a bit over 22 hours ago as I write

I am a -bugs moderator, and don't see that I ever got a notice that I needed
to approve #5085. I did get one for 5804 and 5806, FWIW.

--
Joshua Tolley / eggyknap
End Point Corporation
http://www.endpoint.com

Andrew Gierth <andrew@tao11.riddles.org.uk> writes:
> "Tom" == Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> writes:
>  Tom> A quick grep in my mail logs shows that since Jan 1, I have
>  Tom> received 440 bug-reporter emails, bearing numbers from 4598 to
>  Tom> 5087 (a range of 490 numbers).  So Andrew's "one-third" is a
>  Tom> large exaggeration,

> My "one-third" figure is out of those cases where I say to someone on
> IRC, "you need to submit this as a bug", they say "ok, I filled in the
> reporting form and it gave me number #nnnn". This sample is probably
> quite biased against people who would already have been subscribed to
> the -bugs list.

Hmm ... that's a fair point, but on the other hand my impression is that
few of the people who use the bug form are subscribers at all.  I think
people who are subscribed tend to just mail the list directly and not
bother with the form.  I can't quantify that easily though.

Anyway the important point here is whether there's any significant
number of posts that get lost for a reason other than being rejected
as spam.  Only the moderators would have any idea how many get rejected
as spam, so I'd still like to hear from one of them (or somebody with
access to the moderation data anyway).

            regards, tom lane

>>>>> "Joshua" == Joshua Tolley <eggyknap@gmail.com> writes:

 >> > To pick a recent case, bug #5085 was submitted by an IRC user (at my
 >> > suggestion) at 2009-09-28 22:12 +0000, or a bit over 22 hours ago as I write

 Joshua> I am a -bugs moderator, and don't see that I ever got a
 Joshua> notice that I needed to approve #5085. I did get one for 5804
 Joshua> and 5806, FWIW.

That's what I was afraid of; it rather suggests that some submissions are going
astray without any moderator ever seeing them. Someone should probably check the
mail logs...

--
Andrew (irc:RhodiumToad)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160


> Anyway the important point here is whether there's any significant
> number of posts that get lost for a reason other than being rejected
> as spam.  Only the moderators would have any idea how many get rejected
> as spam, so I'd still like to hear from one of them (or somebody with
> access to the moderation data anyway).

I'm sure there are legitimate posts that get swept up in the spam cleaning.
The bugs list, like most others, is hammered with spam. Very little of
the email to -bugs comes from the web form (and those that do are very
seldom themselves spam. 10% or less sounds about right.

- --
Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200909291817
http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8
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=LG/T
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Andrew Gierth escribió:
> >>>>> "Joshua" == Joshua Tolley <eggyknap@gmail.com> writes:
>
>  >> > To pick a recent case, bug #5085 was submitted by an IRC user (at my
>  >> > suggestion) at 2009-09-28 22:12 +0000, or a bit over 22 hours ago as I write
>
>  Joshua> I am a -bugs moderator, and don't see that I ever got a
>  Joshua> notice that I needed to approve #5085. I did get one for 5804
>  Joshua> and 5806, FWIW.
>
> That's what I was afraid of; it rather suggests that some submissions are going
> astray without any moderator ever seeing them. Someone should probably check the
> mail logs...

Majordomo sends the reports to a limited number of moderators.  For
example, it may be configured to send to 2 moderators, and if there are
more, no single moderator will get all of them.

I think this system is silly, error prone (it's way too easy to hit the
wrong key, particularly if traffic is large) and slow.  If we want to
reject spam in a web form, we shouldn't be using a mailing list spam
moderation system.  I think we should be using a "captcha" system like
recaptcha.

--
Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> writes:
> I think this system is silly, error prone (it's way too easy to hit the
> wrong key, particularly if traffic is large) and slow.  If we want to
> reject spam in a web form, we shouldn't be using a mailing list spam
> moderation system.  I think we should be using a "captcha" system like
> recaptcha.

Captchas are annoying and have been pretty much broken by the spammers
anyway, other than the ones that are so hard that humans can't reliably
do them either (see: annoying).  We should *not* do this.  Especially
so in view of the comment upthread that bug-form traffic is only a
small part of the moderation load.

            regards, tom lane