Thread: perceived absence of work on website
Hi, Well, the latest design proposal and resulting flame showed that many people on this lists are not aware about the state of PostgreSQL website development. What's worse, even the developers are not aware of all the intricacies: Omar Kilani told me that some PostgreSQL developer told him to come up with new design. Which means that this person a) was not aware that a new design was already being applied b) did not consider it important enough to let the people working on the website know about the work being started The root of all problems is that the people who are in website team have a lot of other responsibilities in the project: Dave Page has PgAdmin, Devrim Gunduz has RPMs, Robert Treat has PhpPgAdmin. Let's face it: *all* the work done on new website was done by outside contributors. Coding was started by Andreas Grabmüller and continued by yours truly, design was done by Łukasz Skowroń. Now, one thinks: the project should welcome such contributors. But that's not exactly the case. I personally spent a lot of time flaming in the lists before I got enough info on *how* to contribute and *what* exactly was needed. Some of the hoops to jump through: pgsql-www list is not open for subscriptions. I didn't understand this back then and don't understand it now: if pgsql-hackers can be open, why pgsql-www can't? There is no summary page for potential contributors: where is the code, what's on the current todo list, this kind of stuff. It is not easy to find pgweb project on gborg, but even if one does, he still has to find missing pieces to the puzzle: DB schema and data. There is no docs and thus people think it easier to start from scratch: see advocacy website as a fine example. The moral of the story is obvious: we need an easily accessible page with info on how to contribute and info on current website development.
Alexey, > Some of the hoops to jump through: pgsql-www list is not open for > subscriptions. I didn't understand this back then and don't understand it > now: if pgsql-hackers can be open, why pgsql-www can't? It is open, now. We just discussed it last week, when Robert wanted to close it. > The moral of the story is obvious: we need an easily accessible page with > info on how to contribute and info on current website development. Well, Web Designer, you know what to do ... Overall, though, it would make a big difference if one of the corporations sponsoring PG decided to fund a part-time dedicated web developer. -- --Josh Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Josh Berkus wrote: > Alexey, > > > Some of the hoops to jump through: pgsql-www list is not open for > > subscriptions. I didn't understand this back then and don't understand it > > now: if pgsql-hackers can be open, why pgsql-www can't? > > It is open, now. We just discussed it last week, when Robert wanted to close > it. > > > The moral of the story is obvious: we need an easily accessible page with > > info on how to contribute and info on current website development. > > Well, Web Designer, you know what to do ... > > Overall, though, it would make a big difference if one of the corporations > sponsoring PG decided to fund a part-time dedicated web developer. I disagree (this is my opinion - I work 2 days a week with Fujitsu). There are at least two reasons why: almost every other successful open source project -- which is run by volunteers, not companies viz. MySQL -- has anything from an adequate to impressive web presence; and, how can we have SRA, Fujitsu, CommandPrompt, PostgreSQL inc, etc, *run* our web presence and not be conflicted (even if its only a perceived conflict)? Sure, the developer could be required to run designers/changes/content by www but then we'd have the same problem as we do now. The fact is, I already worked with a professional Web development/graphics development company to redo our web presence for free (at the beginning of the year). Web scared them off! :-( Gavin
On Thursday 28 October 2004 17:23, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Alexey,
>
> > Some of the hoops to jump through: pgsql-www list is not open for
> > subscriptions. I didn't understand this back then and don't understand it
> > now: if pgsql-hackers can be open, why pgsql-www can't?
>
> It is open, now. We just discussed it last week, when Robert wanted to
> close it.
>
Better check your archives. I've never advocated closing the list, quite the
contrary I've always thought the list should be completely open. and that
some of our other lists/address's should be as well.
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
Robert, > > It is open, now. We just discussed it last week, when Robert wanted to > > close it. > > Better check your archives. I've never advocated closing the list, quite > the contrary I've always thought the list should be completely open. and > that some of our other lists/address's should be as well. My apologies! I misread the thread in my personal archives. Who proposed it? Never mind, doesn't matter, we didn't do it. --Josh -- __Aglio Database Solutions_______________ Josh Berkus Consultant josh@agliodbs.com www.agliodbs.com Ph: 415-752-2500 Fax: 415-752-2387 2166 Hayes Suite 200 San Francisco, CA
On Thursday 28 October 2004 17:03, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> The moral of the story is obvious: we need an easily accessible page with
> info on how to contribute and info on current website development.
>
I'm working to improve the process, one step of which was asking you to write
up instructions on how developers can get set up to submit patches. I've
also recently added a todo list to the new webcode and I've submitted an
update to the FAQ regarding how to get involved. This on top of the web
team opening up the web list and the items we've put up on gborg's bug
tracker.
I still don't think we've gotten where we need to be, but I have a hard time
believing there are dozens of people out there who are banging there heads
against the wall trying to figure out how to contribute to the web code. If
you know some people like that, please feel free to point them my way.
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
Robert, > I still don't think we've gotten where we need to be, but I have a hard > time believing there are dozens of people out there who are banging there > heads against the wall trying to figure out how to contribute to the web > code. If you know some people like that, please feel free to point them my > way. Looks like there's two, Omar & Emily. -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
On Thursday 28 October 2004 23:08, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Robert,
>
> > I still don't think we've gotten where we need to be, but I have a hard
> > time believing there are dozens of people out there who are banging there
> > heads against the wall trying to figure out how to contribute to the web
> > code. If you know some people like that, please feel free to point them
> > my way.
>
> Looks like there's two, Omar & Emily.
Seems they figured out the "how" to contribute, just that we don't really need
another design at the current time. I do like thier design though, perhaps
we will use something like it in the future, but I don't see us swapping to
it now.
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
Robert, > Seems they figured out the "how" to contribute, just that we don't really > need another design at the current time. I do like thier design though, > perhaps we will use something like it in the future, but I don't see us > swapping to it now. Yeah, but you could really use help on getting the existing design live. Maybe Omar & Emily could help with that? How about it? -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco