Thread: Two Flyers
Here are two flyers I'm planning on producing for OSCON and LWE. The first is based on Peter E's flyer from LinuxTag and the second is based on an article from General Bits on the Open Source Maturity Model. Unless people *hate* them, links to these flyers should be created from *somewhere* on postgresql.org, presumably the advocacy page, but who knows where would be more helpful. Constructive comments and corrections are welcome. http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/pgflyer.pdf http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/pgosmm1.pdf elein ============================================================ elein@varlena.com Varlena, LLC www.varlena.com PostgreSQL Consulting, Support & Training PostgreSQL General Bits http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/ ============================================================= I have always depended on the [QA] of strangers.
On Fri, 2004-07-02 at 16:39, elein wrote: > Here are two flyers I'm planning on producing for > OSCON and LWE. > > The first is based on Peter E's flyer from LinuxTag > and the second is based on an article from General Bits > on the Open Source Maturity Model. > > Unless people *hate* them, links to these flyers should > be created from *somewhere* on postgresql.org, presumably > the advocacy page, but who knows where would be more > helpful. > > Constructive comments and corrections are welcome. > > http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/pgflyer.pdf > http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/pgosmm1.pdf > > elein Elein, If necessary, I have a Portland connection for discounted printing for fliers. I would be happy to help out in this department if this is needed. Cheers, -Robby -- Robby Russell | Owner.Developer.Geek PLANET ARGON | www.planetargon.com Portland, OR | robby@planetargon.com 503.351.4730 | blog.planetargon.com
elein wrote: > Here are two flyers I'm planning on producing for > OSCON and LWE. Why don't you use the standard elephant logo? > Unless people *hate* them, links to these flyers should > be created from *somewhere* on postgresql.org, presumably > the advocacy page, but who knows where would be more > helpful. Yeah, if we could get some space, I have the OpenOffice file for the flyers I have, plus elephant images in various formats. That plus your flyers, we should really collect that somewhere.
Well done, Elein. Here are some typo corrections and comments which I hope you will find useful: pgflyer.pdf - What is PostgreSQL? : Of the two flyers, this is by far the best. "The last stable version runs on 23 plattforms" - only one t in "platforms" "PostgreSQL is Open-Source-Software." - the hyphens are unnecessary for the phrase "Open Source software" (note, also, the letter s in software is not capitalized). "Hot stand-by" - again, the hyphen is unnecessary and not commonly used in the database context (ref. Google). "Fully ACID compliant, serialable transactions" - serializable? pgosmm1.pdf "Choosing PostgreSQL" : I understand what you are trying to do here but feel that space spent explaining the sort of project which PostgreSQL ISN'T will merely confuse people. A rule of thumb in any sort of marketing is to concentrate on what your product IS because the human mind isn't good at processing negatives (i.e. what something ISN'T). For instance, you don't want people to end up vaguely associating PostgreSQL with statements such as "The project has just started. The stability of the developers group and need for the product are unclear". Again, well done, you've put a lot of work into precisely the sort of thing that PostgreSQL advocacy needs. Donnacha On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 16:39:40 -0700, "elein" <elein@varlena.com> said: > > Here are two flyers I'm planning on producing for > OSCON and LWE. > > The first is based on Peter E's flyer from LinuxTag > and the second is based on an article from General Bits > on the Open Source Maturity Model. > > Unless people *hate* them, links to these flyers should > be created from *somewhere* on postgresql.org, presumably > the advocacy page, but who knows where would be more > helpful. > > Constructive comments and corrections are welcome. > > http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/pgflyer.pdf > http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/pgosmm1.pdf > > elein > ============================================================ > elein@varlena.com Varlena, LLC www.varlena.com > > PostgreSQL Consulting, Support & Training > > PostgreSQL General Bits http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/ > =============================================================
Typos have been corrected in the General PostgreSQL flyer. Thanks to Alvarro and Donnacha. About the Open Source Maturity Model... If it does not ring true for you, don't use it. I think it is a good objective evaluation method in which PostgreSQL shines. --elein On Sat, Jul 03, 2004 at 04:32:19AM +0100, Donnacha Mac Gloinn wrote: > > Well done, Elein. > > Here are some typo corrections and comments which I hope you will find > useful: > > pgflyer.pdf - What is PostgreSQL? : > > Of the two flyers, this is by far the best. > > > "The last stable version runs on 23 plattforms" > > - only one t in "platforms" > > "PostgreSQL is Open-Source-Software." > > - the hyphens are unnecessary for the phrase "Open Source software" > (note, also, the letter s in software is not capitalized). > > "Hot stand-by" > > - again, the hyphen is unnecessary and not commonly used in the > database context (ref. Google). > > "Fully ACID compliant, serialable transactions" > > - serializable? > > > pgosmm1.pdf "Choosing PostgreSQL" : > > I understand what you are trying to do here but feel that space spent > explaining the sort of project which PostgreSQL ISN'T will merely > confuse people. A rule of thumb in any sort of marketing is to > concentrate on what your product IS because the human mind isn't good at > processing negatives (i.e. what something ISN'T). For instance, you > don't want people to end up vaguely associating PostgreSQL with > statements such as "The project has just started. The stability of the > developers group and need for the product are unclear". > > > Again, well done, you've put a lot of work into precisely the sort of > thing that PostgreSQL advocacy needs. > > Donnacha > > > > > On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 16:39:40 -0700, "elein" <elein@varlena.com> said: > > > > Here are two flyers I'm planning on producing for > > OSCON and LWE. > > > > The first is based on Peter E's flyer from LinuxTag > > and the second is based on an article from General Bits > > on the Open Source Maturity Model. > > > > Unless people *hate* them, links to these flyers should > > be created from *somewhere* on postgresql.org, presumably > > the advocacy page, but who knows where would be more > > helpful. > > > > Constructive comments and corrections are welcome. > > > > http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/pgflyer.pdf > > http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/pgosmm1.pdf > > > > elein > > ============================================================ > > elein@varlena.com Varlena, LLC www.varlena.com > > > > PostgreSQL Consulting, Support & Training > > > > PostgreSQL General Bits http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/ > > =============================================================
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Quick notes, mostly to do with grammar and spelling: "Open-Source" needs neither capitilization nor hyphenation. A comma is needed after "Many organizations" A comma is needed after "large corporations" "have implemented" is wordy: go with "use" instead. The entire "Many organizations" sentence is awkward. "Join the PostrgreSQL revolution" sounds dorky and unprofessional. The corporate world does not want to hear the word "revolution." They want words like "stable", "TCO", "popular", and "enterprise" The entire "Join the" sentence is redundant and could be removed. Just jump straight to the bullet list. In the "excellent support" bullet, we may want to mention that the support solutions are "around the clock" or "24/7". "Appropriate for high volume environments" sounds a little weak. Replace "appropriate" with "excellent" or "good" or "full support" or ???. "Proprietary vendors use this strategy for that reason as well." The use of "this and that" is hard to read: rephrase as "Proprietary vendors use MVCC for the same reason" "The last stable version" implies there are "unstable" versions: just say "the latest version" instead. "Open-Source-Software" should be "open source software". "If your staff have" should be "if your company has" "in any way" needs a comma afterwards. Remove the "then" in the same sentence. "costs" should be "cost" "ANSI-SQL-99-Standard compliant" should be "ANSI SQL99 standard compliant" or "ANSI/ISO SQL99 standard compliant" Stored procedures bullet: Might want to mention more languages and move the bullet up. Perhaps PL/Java, Pl/R, and Pl/PHP? Add comma after XML Typos: "standby" "authentication" "Tools for generating portable SQL to share with other SQL-compliant systems" Not sure if this belongs in here. "Cross-database compatibility functions" What is this one trying to say? "gets the job done and with no hassle" is bad English: simply say "gets the job done with no hassles" or something else (anyone?) "Any more questions? You will certainly find the answer on the website www.postgresql.org." Actually, they won't, but that's not the flyer's problem. :) It's not clear what "PostgreSQL General Bits" is: it could easily be construed to be the name of the flyer. A quick pronounciation guide at the very top might be nice. (e.g. "pronounced 'Post-Gres-Cue-Ell'") Overall, a good start, but the tone and the style needs some work. We should get someone who does this sort of thing for a living to help out, e.g. a marketer or a proofreader. Anyone know someone? - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200407041112 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFA6B5fvJuQZxSWSsgRAuXKAJ910lj/dRSpjvT6KO6wCd6vv1sDzACgon9P UqzX+HdoZe6ULKB3kqaDMEQ= =q4FR -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Sun, Jul 04, 2004 at 03:11:26PM -0000, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: > Overall, a good start, but the tone and the style needs some work. > We should get someone who does this sort of thing for a living > to help out, e.g. a marketer or a proofreader. Anyone know someone? I think most of this text comes verbatim (or close to it) from advocacy.postgresql.org ... the text there should be fixed too! -- Alvaro Herrera (<alvherre[a]dcc.uchile.cl>) "Et put se mouve" (Galileo Galilei)
On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, elein wrote: > http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/pgflyer.pdf > http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/pgosmm1.pdf xpdf doesn't seem to display either of these, but am curious as to why you aren't using the official logo for either of the flyers? ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
I don't know about xpdf. The colors sometimes come up weird in the acrobat built in on galeon, but I think that is just my screen and it doesn't always happen. I'm using the slony elephant just on whimsy. I just like them better and they have not snuck over to the php camp. But it is not meant to be a strong statement about anything. --elein On Mon, Jul 05, 2004 at 11:24:26PM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, elein wrote: > > >http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/pgflyer.pdf > >http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/pgosmm1.pdf > > xpdf doesn't seem to display either of these, but am curious as to why you > aren't using the official logo for either of the flyers? > > ---- > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) > Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, elein wrote: > I'm using the slony elephant just on whimsy. I just like them better and > they have not snuck over to the php camp. But it is not meant to be a > strong statement about anything. For official events, especially one that we are trying to make as large a statement at as we seem to be with this one, using the standard, official logo should be, I think, a high priority ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
People can make any changes and republish the one page general flyer. (But I still need to link up the open office file.) The other one on the Open Source Maturity Model is my document--more of a white paper. It can be republished, but only as is. Since I made up the flyers and Varlena, llc is paying for the copies of both flyers for Oscon, I get to choose the elephant I like best. Anyone else is welcome and encouraged to create and print their own flyer. Personally, I think we should take over the elephant motif en masse. And I think that the particular elephant does not matter that much. But I understand that you (Marc) and others disagree. As I said, I'm not trying to make a statement. I'm just choosing elephant pictures :-) elein On Tue, Jul 06, 2004 at 12:20:21AM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, elein wrote: > > >I'm using the slony elephant just on whimsy. I just like them better and > >they have not snuck over to the php camp. But it is not meant to be a > >strong statement about anything. > > For official events, especially one that we are trying to make as large a > statement at as we seem to be with this one, using the standard, official > logo should be, I think, a high priority ... > > ---- > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) > Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, elein wrote: > Since I made up the flyers and Varlena, llc is paying for the > copies of both flyers for Oscon, I get to choose the elephant > I like best. Ah, ok, well, as long as they aren't considered "official project" flyers, that's okay ... sorry, I misunderstood your original intent ... Is anyone working on official flyers for OSCON? Or should we be looking at re-printing the ones that Peter used at LinuxTag for that purpose? Peter? ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
Hi, I think the question here is, why do you have there a picture of an elephant? Would a nice mouse be fine too? If the purpose of the picture is to be a logo, then it would be best to use the logo that is associated with what ever is the topic. The idea is, that when the user sees that logo, he knows, that this is the same company, software, or what ever. Seeing another kind of logo also means, that this is something else. Maybe a pirate copy of the original?? If people are not happy with the current logo, then perhaps we should consider of having a new one. But changing logos is not like changing t-shirts. It should be thought of carefully, and there should be good reasons for doing it. And one should of course remember, that it can't be done too often. I think Shell is an example, that is often referred when talking about logos. Rgs, Jussi > People can make any changes and republish the one page > general flyer. (But I still need to link up the open office file.) > > The other one on the Open Source Maturity Model is my > document--more of a white paper. It can be republished, > but only as is. > > Since I made up the flyers and Varlena, llc is paying for the > copies of both flyers for Oscon, I get to choose the elephant > I like best. > > Anyone else is welcome and encouraged to create and print > their own flyer. > > Personally, I think we should take over the elephant motif > en masse. And I think that the particular elephant does not matter > that much. But I understand that you (Marc) and others > disagree. > > As I said, I'm not trying to make a statement. I'm just choosing > elephant pictures :-) > > elein > > On Tue, Jul 06, 2004 at 12:20:21AM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, elein wrote: > > > > >I'm using the slony elephant just on whimsy. I just like them better and > > >they have not snuck over to the php camp. But it is not meant to be a > > >strong statement about anything. > > > > For official events, especially one that we are trying to make as large a > > statement at as we seem to be with this one, using the standard, official > > logo should be, I think, a high priority ... > > > > ---- > > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) > > Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > > TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate > subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your > message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
On Tue, Jul 06, 2004 at 01:07:02PM +0300, Jussi.Mikkola@bonware.com wrote: > I think the question here is, why do you have there a picture of an > elephant? Would a nice mouse be fine too? > > If the purpose of the picture is to be a logo, then it would be best to > use the logo that is associated with what ever is the topic. > > The idea is, that when the user sees that logo, he knows, that this is > the same company, software, or what ever. Seeing another kind of logo > also means, that this is something else. Maybe a pirate copy of the > original?? Maybe, but I have seen many different penguins (althought the one from the (Marc or Larry?) Ewing guy is still the most common), and whenever I see one I know it's about Linux. So maybe people should not be picky about exactly which elephant is there ... Maybe open source/free software just has a different attitude towards logos. Maybe it's just me. -- Alvaro Herrera (<alvherre[a]dcc.uchile.cl>) "La soledad es compañía"
On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > On Tue, Jul 06, 2004 at 01:07:02PM +0300, Jussi.Mikkola@bonware.com wrote: > >> I think the question here is, why do you have there a picture of an >> elephant? Would a nice mouse be fine too? >> >> If the purpose of the picture is to be a logo, then it would be best to >> use the logo that is associated with what ever is the topic. >> >> The idea is, that when the user sees that logo, he knows, that this is >> the same company, software, or what ever. Seeing another kind of logo >> also means, that this is something else. Maybe a pirate copy of the >> original?? > > Maybe, but I have seen many different penguins (althought the one from > the (Marc or Larry?) Ewing guy is still the most common), and whenever I > see one I know it's about Linux. > > So maybe people should not be picky about exactly which elephant is > there ... > > Maybe open source/free software just has a different attitude towards > logos. Maybe it's just me. If its being "sold" as an "official document", the proper logo should be used ... if its being "sold" as a "company document", then sure, choose your own logo ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
I donated the time for these flyers. My company is donating the printing. Are you saying that you do not want the flyers I created at the PostgreSQL booth, representing PostgreSQL, at OSCON? Only because I'm using the slony elephant instead of the other one? --elein On Tue, Jul 06, 2004 at 01:25:29AM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, elein wrote: > > >Since I made up the flyers and Varlena, llc is paying for the > >copies of both flyers for Oscon, I get to choose the elephant > >I like best. > > Ah, ok, well, as long as they aren't considered "official project" flyers, > that's okay ... sorry, I misunderstood your original intent ... > > Is anyone working on official flyers for OSCON? Or should we be looking > at re-printing the ones that Peter used at LinuxTag for that purpose? > Peter? > > ---- > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) > Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
elein wrote: >I donated the time for these flyers. My company is donating >the printing. > >Are you saying that you do not want the flyers I created >at the PostgreSQL booth, representing PostgreSQL, at >OSCON? > >Only because I'm using the slony elephant instead >of the other one? > > Probably not, but it's certainly unfortunate to use a different logo. It's a question of CI (Community Identity) to use the same logo throughout all documents covering the core product. Marketing is done by imprinting the same images into the retina again and again. BTW I like the LinuxTag flyer, the elephant as watermark is widely visible. Regards, Andreas
On Tue, 6 Jul 2004, elein wrote: > I donated the time for these flyers. My company is donating > the printing. > > Are you saying that you do not want the flyers I created > at the PostgreSQL booth, representing PostgreSQL, at > OSCON? > > Only because I'm using the slony elephant instead > of the other one? If you are distributing Slony brochures, use the Slony elephant ... we have an official logo, that is used *everywhere* ... in marketing, I believe its called 'branding a product', and slipping in a different logo, IMHO, only breeds a sense of confusion and incohesiveness as far as the project is concerned ... PostgreSQL Elephant != Slony Elephant != Mammoth Elephant They are all different logos, for different products, and should be used to advertise their respective products, not a different one altogether ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
> believe its called 'branding a product', and slipping in a different
> logo, IMHO, only breeds a sense of confusion and incohesiveness as far
> as the project is concerned ...
>
> PostgreSQL Elephant != Slony Elephant != Mammoth Elephant
>
> They are all different logos, for different products, and should be used
> to advertise their respective products, not a different one altogether ...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree completely so when does the PostgreSQL, Inc. elephant get
changed ? ;) (This is not flamebait, I am just teasing Marc).
Sincerely,
Joshua D. Drake
>
> ----
> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
> subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
> message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
--
Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC
Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting.
+1-503-667-4564 - jd@commandprompt.com - http://www.commandprompt.com
Mammoth PostgreSQL Replicator. Integrated Replication for PostgreSQL
Attachment
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > Since I made up the flyers and Varlena, llc is paying for the > copies of both flyers for Oscon, I get to choose the elephant > I like best. > > Anyone else is welcome and encouraged to create and print > their own flyer. This is a strange attitude to take when earlier you said: > Unless people *hate* them, links to these flyers should > be created from *somewhere* on postgresql.org, presumably > the advocacy page, but who knows where would be more > helpful. ...which would assume that these are meant to be taken as official community-sanctioned flyers, regardless of who is paying for them. While the synergy between the community (e.g. pgsql-advocacy) and a commercial company (Varlena LLC) can benefit both parties, there is clearly a delicate balance that must be struck. In this case, I agree with Marc - if you are going to print out and distribute flyers at the PostgreSQL booth at OSCON, and have asked the community to not only proofread but make a prominent link to the flyers, then the community certainly has a right to ask that you put the correct logo on them. If these flyers are meant to be the exclusive property of your company, please let us know up front, so that the community can produce its own non-branded flyer. If you want to sponsor the flyer by having a prominent link to Varlena LLC on the bottom, that's great, but the final determination of the actual content should belong to the community. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFA60zuvJuQZxSWSsgRAvxHAKCCxCIAvb0Q99qNvfX0U8HgxckzHQCeP3a1 IeXptw847eMJ/a9anZ3o3ZM= =BK/I -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Marc, Greg, Elein, > Are you saying that you do not want the flyers I created > at the PostgreSQL booth, representing PostgreSQL, at > OSCON? > > Only because I'm using the slony elephant instead > of the other one? Hey! Let's not get carried away here. We *do* have bigger PR concerns than elephant designs -- at least we'll *have* flyers this year. And a table. I'd love to have everyone take a deep breath and count to 10^31-1. We are all interesting in promoting PostgreSQL. We are all working hard on making PostgreSQL flourish. Elein, I *will* ask you not to use the Slony elephant. The reason is that we're going to be doing a bunch of talking up Slony at OSCON -- distributing it on CDs and a brochure, for example -- and use of the Slony elephant on a general brochure about PostgreSQL could confuse people, such as making them think that PostgreSQL itself is sponsored by Afilias instead of just Slony. It would be nice to have the "blue elephant" on everything -- we'll have it on 144 t-shirts, for one thing -- for consistency, but it's not absolutel yessential. While the "blue elephant" is our current de facto logo, no PostgreSQL community forum has ever taken a vote on it. Something we should discuss, really; it's not the only elephant design we have, and both Cornelia and Gavin have submitted significant variations. It's more important to have the flyers, in my opinion, than to have the "right" elephant. -- -Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
I will change the logo to the usual elephant on the
condition that the issues with regards to making
the elephant "official" be addressed.
The issues are:
* the overlap of the elephant with both php and with pgsqlinc.
* decision of who exactly designates the "official" logo
This is how I was convinced:
* People who both agreed and disagreed with me
politely suggested I should change it for consistency's sake
These were completely ineffectual arguments:
* "You are wrong!"
* Generalities about my gender and perceived nationality
* The Community says so (two or three voices do not make a community)
* Disregard for the effort to create collateral
elein@varlena.com
On Mon, Jul 05, 2004 at 11:24:26PM -0300, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, elein wrote:
>
> >http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/pgflyer.pdf
> >http://www.varlena.com/GeneralBits/Tidbits/pgosmm1.pdf
>
> xpdf doesn't seem to display either of these, but am curious as to why you
> aren't using the official logo for either of the flyers?
>
> ----
> Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
> Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
elein wrote: > I will change the logo to the usual elephant on the > condition that the issues with regards to making > the elephant "official" be addressed. > > The issues are: > * the overlap of the elephant with both php and with pgsqlinc. We were there first! > * decision of who exactly designates the "official" logo The same way we officially do features and releases --- completely unoffically. :-) -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
Elein, > The issues are: > * the overlap of the elephant with both php and with pgsqlinc. There's no way we can reasonably address this in the next 2 weeks. > * decision of who exactly designates the "official" logo Vote of this list, WWW and Core, I'd think. Fortunately, we don't need an "official" logo, just an "official for OSCON 2004 logo". BTW, does anyone know the history of how PHP came to use an elephant? -- -Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Josh Berkus wrote: > Fortunately, we don't need an "official" logo, just an "official for OSCON > 2004 logo". > > BTW, does anyone know the history of how PHP came to use an elephant? I don't know, but I do know we've been using the elephant for almost a decade now ... we started with the 'elephant in crystal' that I believe Jan created, which was fantastic electronically, but didn't print very well, so it morphed into the cartoon one we now use ... Jan's version goes back to ... '97? And the cartoon one, I think, around '99 ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
Josh Berkus wrote: > Elein, > > > The issues are: > > * the overlap of the elephant with both php and with pgsqlinc. > > There's no way we can reasonably address this in the next 2 weeks. > > > * decision of who exactly designates the "official" logo > > Vote of this list, WWW and Core, I'd think. > > Fortunately, we don't need an "official" logo, just an "official for OSCON > 2004 logo". > > BTW, does anyone know the history of how PHP came to use an elephant? They say the elephant looks like PHP but with the first P backward. I don't see it myself. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
We do not need to resolve the issue right now, silly. It needs to be addressed sooner or later. --elein On Thu, Jul 08, 2004 at 03:58:06PM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: > Elein, > > > The issues are: > > * the overlap of the elephant with both php and with pgsqlinc. > > There's no way we can reasonably address this in the next 2 weeks. > > > * decision of who exactly designates the "official" logo > > Vote of this list, WWW and Core, I'd think. > > Fortunately, we don't need an "official" logo, just an "official for OSCON > 2004 logo". > > BTW, does anyone know the history of how PHP came to use an elephant? > > -- > -Josh Berkus > Aglio Database Solutions > San Francisco > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command > (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > BTW, does anyone know the history of how PHP came to use an elephant? I researched this once a while ago as to who was first and I think it was basically a draw...we started discussing having an elephant about the same time they did. I'd love someone to prove me wrong of course... At least we aren't in danger of having someone name their next browser release "Postgres" :) - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200407081950 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFA7d4ZvJuQZxSWSsgRAuU1AJ9ir7eJAPftEabduq+2kO+0OlAjngCg9i8q 9cEt6TkN7kmWF94+d6KEgEc= =MBcs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On 7/5/2004 11:20 PM, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jul 2004, elein wrote: > >> I'm using the slony elephant just on whimsy. I just like them better and >> they have not snuck over to the php camp. But it is not meant to be a >> strong statement about anything. > > For official events, especially one that we are trying to make as large a > statement at as we seem to be with this one, using the standard, official > logo should be, I think, a high priority ... With respect to the flyers, I happen to agree with Marc. This is the Slony Logo, and I have never had any intentions to replace the well established and branded PostgreSQL elephant with it. The pg_live CD's Afilias is sponsoring for the events will have both logos with the appropriate text next to them. This is IMHO right since the CD will have Slony installed so that one could use them for simple replication tests. Jan > > ---- > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) > Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster -- #======================================================================# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #
On 7/8/2004 7:12 PM, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jul 2004, Josh Berkus wrote: > >> Fortunately, we don't need an "official" logo, just an "official for OSCON >> 2004 logo". >> >> BTW, does anyone know the history of how PHP came to use an elephant? > > I don't know, but I do know we've been using the elephant for almost a > decade now ... we started with the 'elephant in crystal' that I believe > Jan created, which was fantastic electronically, but didn't print very > well, so it morphed into the cartoon one we now use ... At that time we had to chose between Crocodile (because PG was considered the last dinosaur that survived), Elephant and I was playing with a raytraced diamond. As a compromise I "suggested" the Elephant inside the diamond, and somehow that prototype ended up on the website - sure it didn't print well, it was just way to fuzzy and bad in contrast. BTW, that image on the website had "slonik" as filename or "alt" text, don't remember exactly. Back then I wondered what that means. Jan > > Jan's version goes back to ... '97? And the cartoon one, I think, around > '99 ... > > > ---- > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) > Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings -- #======================================================================# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #
On Sat, 10 Jul 2004, Jan Wieck wrote: > BTW, that image on the website had "slonik" as filename or "alt" text, > don't remember exactly. Back then I wondered what that means. Fuzzy memory here, but isn't it russian for elephant? ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
Hi, Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> BTW, that image on the website had "slonik" as filename or "alt" text, >> don't remember exactly. Back then I wondered what that means. > > > Fuzzy memory here, but isn't it russian for elephant? For "small elephant", to be precise.
On 7/10/2004 1:55 AM, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Sat, 10 Jul 2004, Jan Wieck wrote: > >> BTW, that image on the website had "slonik" as filename or "alt" text, >> don't remember exactly. Back then I wondered what that means. > > Fuzzy memory here, but isn't it russian for elephant? Slon = Elephant Slony = Elephants Slonik = Dumbo In my replication system, one node is a slon (hence the name of the replication engine executable). The group or cluster is called Slony and the scripting aid used to "ask" for various actions to take place is named slonik :) Jan > > ---- > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) > Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 -- #======================================================================# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #
Jan Wieck wrote: > Slon = Elephant > Slony = Elephants > Slonik = Dumbo In March, I held a talk in Chemnitz which previewed Slony-I among other things. I mentioned in passing, "no idea where he got the name from". Of course, east Germans being relatively proficient in Russian, I was immediately corrected. So next time someone chooses a non-obvious name for a project, let us know what it means beforehand. :-)
On Saturday 10 July 2004 08:48, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > Of course, east Germans being relatively proficient in Russian, I was > immediately corrected. So next time someone chooses a non-obvious name > for a project, let us know what it means beforehand. :-) Back when Vince was doing the website, he sent me a tarball of various forms of slonik. I think that included the raytracer source. I think I still have it lying around...yes, I do. It contains four files: ele_blue.ppm (117K), ele_gray.ppm (67K), a Makefile, and pg_diamond.pov (2.4K). At that time, I did a little research into the issue, and found what Jan has posted. So, about three years ago I was aware of the meaning, not that that is worth anything... :-) In any case, I much prefer the Slonik logo for web presentations, as it dates way back, is unique (that is, there are no other elephants inside of diamonds being used by any other project (or political party, in the case of the USA)) and looks really cool. Work could be done to make it print better, I'm sure. Slightly off the topic, I still remember the logo being the elephant breaking through the brick wall... And before that, it was the word 'PostgreSQL' breaking through the brick wall. Unfortunately there was a time in 1998 and 1999 that we are not archived on the WayBack Machine; the 'PostgreSQL' breaking through is there as of May 4, 1998, but the page for Nov 11, 1998 comes up with a 'page not in archive' blurb. The next archived page is Oct 12, 1999, which has the slonik logo, but had removed the wall. That page also blurbs about our being the Linux World Editor's choice database for 1999... Incidentally, we are the Linux Journal Editor's choice RDBMS for 2004 as well, according to my LJ I just received in the mail. Hmmm, this isn't the first year, though, is it? One of the most embarassing blurbs I remember, though, was at the 6.5 release (which is in the period of time not archived, incidentally) that said the 6.5 release marked the PostgreSQL team's 'final mastery' of the codebase. I did find the blurb in a History document separately archived. See the page http://web.archive.org/web/20021001222155/www.ca.postgresql.org/docs/devhistory.html where it says "Every release is now a major improvement over the last. Our upcoming 6.5 release marks the development team's final mastery of the source code we inherited from Berkeley. Finally, every code module is understood by at least one development team member. We are now easily adding major features, thanks to the increasing size and experience of our world-wide development team. Like most open-source projects, we don't know how many people are using our software, but our increased functionality, visibility and mailing list traffic clearly point to continued growth for PostgreSQL. " Since this 'history' document says 'upcoming 6.5 release' that would date it in the spring of 1999. So it should now read 'PreHistory' of PostgreSQL... :-) Now, the blurb, in context, is a true statement, because the 6.5 release really was the breakthrough release for PostgreSQL. But it sure did sound a little arrogant to say 'final mastery'..... And I think Jan's project's name, which literally means 'elephants', is very nice, particularly given the vast contributions of one of my favorite Russians, Vadim. He did a bunch of heavy lifting for this project. Subselects, MVCC, and WAL. Three very large features, three complicated codebases. One greatly appreciated Russian. And Jan, I got it when you first announced it, and thought it was a hoot (that is, nicely, pun-ily, funny). But, having said all that, I am not a fan of the cartoon elephant. -- Lamar Owen Director of Information Technology Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute 1 PARI Drive Rosman, NC 28772 (828)862-5554 www.pari.edu
Lamar Owen wrote: > One of the most embarassing blurbs I remember, though, was at the 6.5 release > (which is in the period of time not archived, incidentally) that said the 6.5 > release marked the PostgreSQL team's 'final mastery' of the codebase. I did > find the blurb in a History document separately archived. See the page > http://web.archive.org/web/20021001222155/www.ca.postgresql.org/docs/devhistory.html > where it says "Every release is now a major improvement over the last. Our > upcoming 6.5 release marks the development team's final mastery of the source > code we inherited from Berkeley. Finally, every code module is understood by > at least one development team member. We are now easily adding major > features, thanks to the increasing size and experience of our world-wide > development team. Like most open-source projects, we don't know how many > people are using our software, but our increased functionality, visibility > and mailing list traffic clearly point to continued growth for PostgreSQL. " > Since this 'history' document says 'upcoming 6.5 release' that would date it > in the spring of 1999. So it should now read 'PreHistory' of > PostgreSQL... :-) Now, the blurb, in context, is a true statement, because > the 6.5 release really was the breakthrough release for PostgreSQL. But it > sure did sound a little arrogant to say 'final mastery'..... That phrase is even in our release notes: Release 6.5 Release date: 1999-06-09 This release marks a major step in the development team's mastery of the source code we inherited from Berkeley. You will see we are now easily adding major features, thanks to the increasing size and experience of our world-wide development team. and, yes, it was me who wrote that. Many felt it was embarrasing to admit we didn't have full understanding of all the PostgreSQL modules before 6.5, but it was the truth, so if you thought it was arrogant, I must have struck the right balance. I have seen that phrase quoted by others outside the project so it must have gotten some people's attention, both good and bad. The phrase was uses to highlight how much progress we had made since 1.02 in 1996. > And I think Jan's project's name, which literally means 'elephants', is very > nice, particularly given the vast contributions of one of my favorite > Russians, Vadim. He did a bunch of heavy lifting for this project. > Subselects, MVCC, and WAL. Three very large features, three complicated > codebases. One greatly appreciated Russian. And Jan, I got it when you > first announced it, and thought it was a hoot (that is, nicely, pun-ily, > funny). The Sloney elephant looks like he has an attitude, though. :-) -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
On Saturday 10 July 2004 14:04, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Lamar Owen wrote: > > Our upcoming 6.5 release marks the development team's final > > mastery of the source code we inherited from Berkeley. > That phrase is even in our release notes: > This release marks a major step in the development team's mastery of > the source code we inherited from Berkeley. Not the same phrase, and the second one, in the release notes, doesn't sound arrogant at all. It's the 'final' portion that caught my eyebrow.... > and, yes, it was me who wrote that. Many felt it was embarrasing to > admit we didn't have full understanding of all the PostgreSQL modules > before 6.5, but it was the truth, so if you thought it was arrogant, I > must have struck the right balance. Some balance... But, yes, I was lurking the lists at the time and I remember some of the comments. The mastery has certainly increased since then. But 'final mastery' is somewhat an asymptotic goal, no? The release notes have the right balance, because they leave room for the (realized) improvements since 6.5. I look forward to the next five years, given the strides that have been made in the last five. > The Sloney elephant looks like he has an attitude, though. :-) Hmmm, just now noticed that. My preference is the 'slonik' one; the Slony one looks as if one has angered him/her. But the PostGIS one takes the prize. Talk about World Domination... -- Lamar Owen Director of Information Technology Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute 1 PARI Drive Rosman, NC 28772 (828)862-5554 www.pari.edu
Lamar Owen wrote:
> On Saturday 10 July 2004 14:04, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Lamar Owen wrote:
> > > Our upcoming 6.5 release marks the development team's final
> > > mastery of the source code we inherited from Berkeley.
>
> > That phrase is even in our release notes:
> > This release marks a major step in the development team's mastery of
> > the source code we inherited from Berkeley.
>
> Not the same phrase, and the second one, in the release notes, doesn't sound
> arrogant at all. It's the 'final' portion that caught my eyebrow....
>
> > and, yes, it was me who wrote that. Many felt it was embarrasing to
> > admit we didn't have full understanding of all the PostgreSQL modules
> > before 6.5, but it was the truth, so if you thought it was arrogant, I
> > must have struck the right balance.
>
> Some balance... But, yes, I was lurking the lists at the time and I remember
> some of the comments. The mastery has certainly increased since then. But
> 'final mastery' is somewhat an asymptotic goal, no?
Yes, "final" mastery wasn't my wording. Not even sure if that makes
sense in this context.
> The release notes have the right balance, because they leave room for the
> (realized) improvements since 6.5. I look forward to the next five years,
> given the strides that have been made in the last five.
>
> > The Sloney elephant looks like he has an attitude, though. :-)
>
> Hmmm, just now noticed that. My preference is the 'slonik' one; the Slony one
> looks as if one has angered him/her.
>
> But the PostGIS one takes the prize. Talk about World Domination...
Ah, yes, very cute.
I think maybe we should make our catch phrase:
Fortress PostgreSQL: The Bomb
--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road
+ Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
On 7/10/2004 9:37 PM, Lamar Owen wrote: > On Saturday 10 July 2004 14:04, Bruce Momjian wrote: >> The Sloney elephant looks like he has an attitude, though. :-) > > Hmmm, just now noticed that. My preference is the 'slonik' one; the Slony one > looks as if one has angered him/her. I did care less about the angry look than that it doesn't look cute. I was kinda sick of cute looking toy like mascots while drawing slon. Jan -- #======================================================================# # It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. # # Let's break this rule - forgive me. # #================================================== JanWieck@Yahoo.com #