Thread: Urgent help needed for press contact
Hi all, I was contacted a while ago by a French computer magazine who's going to run a special issue on open source databases. They are supposed to run case studies and I directed them to several volunteer French PostgreSQL users. Now they have just come back with a spreadsheet for comparing 4 OS DBs: MySQL, PostgreSQL, Firebird and MAXDB/SAPDB. The deadline for filling the table is tomorrow morning and there are some answers I don't (and some stupid questions I would rather not answer, but that's beside the point). So I would greatly appreciate any help to answer the following: -time to install (in hours) (talk about a stupid question!) - hot backup: do we support that? (I'm not quite sure what is meant by that: replacing a database with its backup without losing a single transaction?) - replication: I mentioned eRserver. Should I mention something else? - the 3 strongest points - the 3 weakest points - minimal configuration in CPU, RAM and disks - max number of databases, records, record size, simultaneous connections - memory footprint per connection - max number of SQL queries per second (that sounds ridiculous, it really depends on what query) - number of users in the world TIA for the help. --------------- Francois Home page: http://www.monpetitcoin.com/ "Would Descartes have programmed in Pascal?" - Umberto Eco
On Wednesday 05 November 2003 16:12, Francois Suter wrote: > Hi all, > > I was contacted a while ago by a French computer magazine who's going > to run a special issue on open source databases. They are supposed to > run case studies and I directed them to several volunteer French > PostgreSQL users. > > Now they have just come back with a spreadsheet for comparing 4 OS DBs: > MySQL, PostgreSQL, Firebird and MAXDB/SAPDB. The deadline for filling > the table is tomorrow morning and there are some answers I don't (and > some stupid questions I would rather not answer, but that's beside the > point). > > So I would greatly appreciate any help to answer the following: > > -time to install (in hours) (talk about a stupid question!) 15 minutes from source compile on a good(read good CPU) Unix system. 2-3 minutes if you have source package.. Some handy URLs http://techdocs.postgresql.org/guides/Windows http://wiki.ael.be/index.php/PostgresQL101 > - hot backup: do we support that? (I'm not quite sure what is meant by > that: replacing a database with its backup without losing a single > transaction?) Hot backup means backing up database without taking it down. We can do that. (Provided the survey shares same opinion/definition of hot backup) > - replication: I mentioned eRserver. Should I mention something else? Yes. GBorg replication page. Net connectivity is dead here, unfortunately. You have to hunt it yourself. http://gborg.postgresql.org/project/pgreplication/projdisplay.php http://gborg.postgresql.org/genpage?replication_research > - the 3 strongest points -Focus on * SQL compliane * Data integrity - Flexibility * User defined rules * User defined languages * User defined data types - simplicity * Minimum overhead install * Database engine does not include any bloated extras * Easy to start with and maintain </Very subjective opinion> > - the 3 weakest points - Native windows port - Built in async. replication and support for hot failover - Thats it. I can't fill up third one..:-) > - minimal configuration in CPU, RAM and disks Not explicitly tested for minimum configuration but following should work 100MHz CPU/ 8MB RAM/>100MB disk > - max number of databases, records, record size, simultaneous > connections http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/limitations.html Number of connections are limited by configuration and maximum available shared memory. > - memory footprint per connection Not very sure but IIRC it is around 576KB per connection. But lot of this could be shared as well. Just tested on my machine. +/- sharing tricks played by linux. This is by using free and getting true memory usage. > - max number of SQL queries per second (that sounds ridiculous, it > really depends on what query) Upto machine and network resources. Depends upon queries as well. > - number of users in the world Duh. We don't maintain registers for the users for sure. How the heck do we answer this? Probably this questions defines boundary of geekdom and PHBhood. If you can answer this, you are/can be a PHB..:-) HTH Shridhar
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Hi,
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Shridhar Daithankar wrote:
> > - number of users in the world
>
> Duh. We don't maintain registers for the users for sure. How the heck do we
> answer this?
There is a section in pgsql.com/user_gallery; but I'm pretty sure that it
is not accurate :))
Regards,
- --
Devrim GUNDUZ
devrim@gunduz.org devrim.gunduz@linux.org.tr
http://www.tdmsoft.com
http://www.gunduz.org
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Francois Suter writes: > -time to install (in hours) (talk about a stupid question!) 0.084 h plus time for download/CD access > - hot backup: do we support that? (I'm not quite sure what is meant by > that: replacing a database with its backup without losing a single > transaction?) Yes (pg_dump) Hot backup means that you can back up the data without interfering with the ongoing use of the database. > - replication: I mentioned eRserver. Should I mention something else? pgreplicator, dbmirror, clustered JDBC (well, not really replication, but same result) > - the 3 strongest points features, extensible, really free > - the 3 weakest points too many features, too extensible, upgrades > - minimal configuration in CPU, RAM and disks 1 CPU, 4 MB RAM, 1 disk (say, 100 MB) > - max number of databases, records, record size, simultaneous > connections unlimited, unlimited, 1.6 TB, process limit of OS > - memory footprint per connection I count about 800 kB. > - max number of SQL queries per second (that sounds ridiculous, it > really depends on what query) yeah... > - number of users in the world many :-) -- Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net
> - the 3 strongest points candidates: MVCC Extensibility (particularly wrt languages. Pl/sql, etc.) Not frequently mentioned, but I find the psql shell to be far superior to the other's (particularly wrt sql command help sytax) which translates into easier administration. - the 3 weakest points win32 port. beyond that, the other open source databases are simply not competitive in a broad sense. - max number of SQL queries per second (that sounds ridiculous, it Maybe this is not quite so ridiculous. In my particular case, this happens to be very important. I use postgres to emulate a COBOL file system for integration with legacy applications. Since COBOL applications always process one record at a time (think cursors) the query turnaround time becomes important (assuming network latency is not a major factor). From my work in this area, I can tell you that, even on older hardware, pg can process between 200-1000 queries per second (queries being select * from t where id = x type things), with the average being about 500. Of course, this is highly dependant on situational factors. Generally, though, the database's ability to deal with transactions is (much) more important. i.e. tpc score. Regards and Good Luck, Merlin
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 09:53, Merlin Moncure wrote:
> - the 3 weakest points
> win32 port. beyond that, the other open source databases are simply not
> competitive in a broad sense.
>
PITR, 2 phase commit, simplicity of replication, updateable views...
some of those database have some of these things which we do not.
Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
>>- replication: I mentioned eRserver. Should I mention something else? >> >> > >pgreplicator, dbmirror, clustered JDBC (well, not really replication, but >same result) > > > I would not mention pgreplicator as it doesn't work with newer versions. ErServer, Rserv, dbmirror, Mammoth Replicator >>- minimal configuration in CPU, RAM and disks >> >> > >1 CPU, 4 MB RAM, 1 disk (say, 100 MB) > > > Perhaps a more reasonable requirement should be listed. 32 Megs maybe? >>- max number of SQL queries per second (that sounds ridiculous, it >>really depends on what query) >> >> > > > O.k. well how about this... depends entirely on the hardware being used but on sub 2000.00 machines in real world tests we can get 5000 TPS. > > >>- number of users in the world >> >> > >many :-) > > > -- Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting. +1-503-222-2783 - jd@commandprompt.com - http://www.commandprompt.com Editor-N-Chief - PostgreSQl.Org - http://www.postgresql.org
Thanks to all for your help and answers. My deadline is now, so I won't be able to take into account later comments, but I think I could answer the questions in a satisfactory way. I will try to keep this list posted on this article when it is published. Cheers. --------------- Francois Home page: http://www.monpetitcoin.com/ "Would Descartes have programmed in Pascal?" - Umberto Eco
Happy to help out. I have some good case studies: http://www.thenew-hometeam.com is run on a postgres database. We never exceed 10 seconds retreival time on queries on thedatabase. > -time to install (in hours) (talk about a stupid question!) Average time: 10-30 minutes. > - hot backup: do we support that? (I'm not quite sure what is meant by > that: replacing a database with its backup without losing a single > transaction?) yes - we support it in our operations. All databaes are backed up on spare drives, and we can bring a database back up inless than 30 minutes in a worst case scenario. > - replication: I mentioned eRserver. Should I mention something else? > - the 3 strongest points pick three: JDBC and ODBC drivers are free, use of genetic algorithms, access to original developers, wide availability ofskillset, excellent software engineering choices by the designers, compact size, robustness > - the 3 weakest points NOTE: These are probably the weakest points from the standpoint of the average enterprise customer (e.g. Microsoft SQL customers)lack of more tools like pgAccess, high level of skill required to finetune (which I don't mind either), and lackof a native Windows executable build (which I don't mind). > - minimal configuration in CPU, RAM and disks see recommended hardware. I've run this on a 486 with less than 500 mb of disk space and 128 MB of RAM. > - max number of databases, records, record size, simultaneous not sure - haven't hit a maximum yet. We're at several dozen at this point. Note, Microsoft SQL can usually only handleone or two large databases at once. > connections > - memory footprint per connection not sure - it's documented in the installation notes for the Sun boxes. > - max number of SQL queries per second (that sounds ridiculous, it > really depends on what query) I would guess, on a small query several thousand into the tens of thousands. > - number of users in the world I would take the number of downloads and multiply by a factor of 20-50. On 2003.11.05 02:42 Francois Suter wrote: > Hi all, > > I was contacted a while ago by a French computer magazine who's going > to run a special issue on open source databases. They are supposed to > run case studies and I directed them to several volunteer French > PostgreSQL users. > > Now they have just come back with a spreadsheet for comparing 4 OS DBs: > MySQL, PostgreSQL, Firebird and MAXDB/SAPDB. The deadline for filling > the table is tomorrow morning and there are some answers I don't (and > some stupid questions I would rather not answer, but that's beside the > point). > > So I would greatly appreciate any help to answer the following: > > -time to install (in hours) (talk about a stupid question!) > - hot backup: do we support that? (I'm not quite sure what is meant by > that: replacing a database with its backup without losing a single > transaction?) > - replication: I mentioned eRserver. Should I mention something else? > - the 3 strongest points > - the 3 weakest points > - minimal configuration in CPU, RAM and disks > - max number of databases, records, record size, simultaneous > connections > - memory footprint per connection > - max number of SQL queries per second (that sounds ridiculous, it > really depends on what query) > - number of users in the world > > TIA for the help. > > --------------- > Francois > > Home page: http://www.monpetitcoin.com/ > > "Would Descartes have programmed in Pascal?" - Umberto Eco > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? > > http://archives.postgresql.org >
On Wednesday 05 November 2003 16:48, Shridhar Daithankar wrote: > On Wednesday 05 November 2003 16:12, Francois Suter wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I was contacted a while ago by a French computer magazine who's going > > to run a special issue on open source databases. They are supposed to > > run case studies and I directed them to several volunteer French > > PostgreSQL users. > > > > Now they have just come back with a spreadsheet for comparing 4 OS DBs: > > MySQL, PostgreSQL, Firebird and MAXDB/SAPDB. The deadline for filling > > the table is tomorrow morning and there are some answers I don't (and > > some stupid questions I would rather not answer, but that's beside the > > point). > > > > So I would greatly appreciate any help to answer the following: > > > > -time to install (in hours) (talk about a stupid question!) > > 15 minutes from source compile on a good(read good CPU) Unix system. > 2-3 minutes if you have source package.. Oops.. Precompiled package. This is for a Unix system. Not for a windows system.. > Yes. GBorg replication page. Net connectivity is dead here, unfortunately. > You have to hunt it yourself. > > http://gborg.postgresql.org/project/pgreplication/projdisplay.php > http://gborg.postgresql.org/genpage?replication_research Obviously net worked in the meantime..:-) Shridhar