Thread: Some remarks to pgadmin III
Hello again List,
I just tried pgadmin III for the first time, a great piece
of work.
I just have some very minor remarks that could be useful
while beta testing is still in progress.
I post them on this list since I could not find a bug tracker.
Most of my remarks may be due to the fact that I do not know
your cross-plattform development constraints and implementation
choices. Personaly I used it on M$ XP for the moment.
Please forgive me if the remarks sound stupid.
Also I used pgadmin III only for a very short time.
(in no particular order)
o Quick drill down in treeview is painfull:.
When drilling down the "+" indicating that there are other elements below
does not appear at once. The node must be selected first (like pgadmin II < 1.6)
If double-click the node the properties show up (not like pgadmin II 1.6)
I suggest either to display a "+" per default even if it is not certain that other
elements exist. The plus may disappear when trying to open with no nodes below.
Or allow double-click to drill down quickly and use right click for properties.
o Context-Menu key (the one between the right windows key and the control key)
does not work.
o Empty icon when changing task using Alt-Tab
o Help menu - Bugreport - no http link works (do you use the proxy settings?)
o Right click works only on tree view not in the properties frame(feature ?)
o Dropped servers reappear when changing "display system objects" due to
the disconnect/tree refresh
o Crtl-A (select all) does not work in most of the text boxes
e.g. analyse/vacuum message window
Databse properties comment
...
o Query tool shows up with objects creation SQL. Ok this is a feature
but could it be an optional one :-)
Regards,
Claus
> -----Original Message----- > From: claus [mailto:ch@greenmail.ch] > Sent: 14 August 2003 16:00 > To: pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org > Subject: [pgadmin-hackers] Some remarks to pgadmin III > > > Hello again List, > > I just tried pgadmin III for the first time, a great piece > of work. > > I just have some very minor remarks that could be useful > while beta testing is still in progress. > > I post them on this list since I could not find a bug tracker. > Most of my remarks may be due to the fact that I do not know > your cross-plattform development constraints and implementation > choices. Personaly I used it on M$ XP for the moment. > Please forgive me if the remarks sound stupid. > Also I used pgadmin III only for a very short time. > > (in no particular order) > o Quick drill down in treeview is painfull:. > When drilling down the "+" indicating that there are other > elements below > does not appear at once. The node must be selected first > (like pgadmin II < 1.6) > If double-click the node the properties show up (not like > pgadmin II 1.6) > I suggest either to display a "+" per default even if it is > not certain that other > elements exist. The plus may disappear when trying to open > with no nodes below. > Or allow double-click to drill down quickly and use right > click for properties. Whilst you cannot easily make the + appear quickly, under File -> Options you can turn off 'Double-Click for Properties' to allow quicker browsing. The + appear automatically if there are child nodes so we cannot easily put it there by default unless we add dummy nodes. > o Context-Menu key (the one between the right windows key and > the control key) > does not work. Added to Bugs. > o Empty icon when changing task using Alt-Tab Added to Bugs. > o Help menu - Bugreport - no http link works (do you use the > proxy settings?) Added to Bugs. > o Right click works only on tree view not in the properties > frame(feature ?) Yes, that's by design. > o Dropped servers reappear when changing "display system > objects" due to > the disconnect/tree refresh Added to Bugs > o Crtl-A (select all) does not work in most of the text boxes > e.g. analyse/vacuum message window > Databse properties comment > ... Added to Bugs. > o Query tool shows up with objects creation SQL. Ok this is a feature > but could it be an optional one :-) It is - check the Options form :-) Thanks for the bug reports. Regards, Dave.
Dave Page wrote: >> >>I post them on this list since I could not find a bug tracker. >> You found the right list, post all that stuff here! >> >>(in no particular order) >>o Quick drill down in treeview is painfull:. >> When drilling down the "+" indicating that there are other >>elements below >> does not appear at once. The node must be selected first >> I consider this as annoying too, but as Dave stated there's still no good solution for this. wxWindows doesn't have [ ] nodes. I've put this on the TODO list, so this doesn't get lost. > > >>o Context-Menu key (the one between the right windows key and >>the control key) does not work. >> I don't have this key; this windows crop keys are a PITA. Added "support Shift-F10 for context menu" on TODO >>o Empty icon when changing task using Alt-Tab >> >> This will probably stay quite a while on the BUGS list. I have absolutely no idea what to do about that. The app icon is defined 32x32 and 48x48 in a standard way. I'm clueless. >>o Help menu - Bugreport - no http link works (do you use the proxy settings?) >> This is merely a TODO, not a BUG. wxWindows doesn't support automatic proxy. This reminds me that we still need to embed the pgsql7.4 doc, which in turn might trigger some work on the help contents. >>o Dropped servers reappear when changing "display system objects" due to the disconnect/tree refresh >> >> > >Added to Bugs > I really believe this isn't worth the effort. Even pgAdmin3 may have a spot of weird behaviour.... > > >>o Crtl-A (select all) does not work in most of the text boxes >> e.g. analyse/vacuum message window >> Databse properties comment >> ... >> >> Not a bug; Ctrl-A is not a standard key for text boxes. Use Home and Shift-End instead. Only STC boxes know this key sequence. If we start implementing every key that STC knows we will go mad. >>o Query tool shows up with objects creation SQL. Ok this is a feature >> but could it be an optional one :-) >> >> > >It is - check the Options form :-) > Yeah... even documented!!! Regards, Andreas
----- Original Message ----- From: "Andreas Pflug" <pgadmin@pse-consulting.de> To: "claus" <ch@greenmail.ch> Cc: "Dave Page" <dpage@vale-housing.co.uk>; <pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [pgadmin-hackers] Some remarks to pgadmin III > This is merely a TODO, not a BUG. wxWindows doesn't support automatic proxy. > This reminds me that we still need to embed the pgsql7.4 doc, which in > turn might trigger some work on the help contents. > I already wolountered to do it, but I'm not going to start without Your blessing, because I do not want to overlap the work with some other contributor. Regards !
> -----Original Message----- > From: Darko Prenosil [mailto:Darko.Prenosil@finteh.hr] > Sent: 15 August 2003 00:02 > To: pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [pgadmin-hackers] Some remarks to pgadmin III > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andreas Pflug" <pgadmin@pse-consulting.de> > To: "claus" <ch@greenmail.ch> > Cc: "Dave Page" <dpage@vale-housing.co.uk>; > <pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org> > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:22 PM > Subject: Re: [pgadmin-hackers] Some remarks to pgadmin III > > > > This is merely a TODO, not a BUG. wxWindows doesn't support > automatic > proxy. > > This reminds me that we still need to embed the pgsql7.4 > doc, which in > > turn might trigger some work on the help contents. > > > I already wolountered to do it, but I'm not going to start > without Your blessing, because I do not want to overlap the > work with some other contributor. Please go ahead. Regards, Dave.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Andreas Pflug [mailto:pgadmin@pse-consulting.de] > Sent: 14 August 2003 22:22 > To: claus > Cc: Dave Page; pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [pgadmin-hackers] Some remarks to pgadmin III > > > >>o Help menu - Bugreport - no http link works (do you use the proxy > >>settings?) > >> > This is merely a TODO, not a BUG. wxWindows doesn't support > automatic proxy. This reminds me that we still need to embed > the pgsql7.4 doc, which in > turn might trigger some work on the help contents. I consider it a bug. It's not uncommon for corporate networks to prevent direct TCP/IP connections to the outside world. > >>o Dropped servers reappear when changing "display system > objects" due > >>to the disconnect/tree refresh > >> > >> > > > >Added to Bugs > > > I really believe this isn't worth the effort. Even pgAdmin3 > may have a > spot of weird behaviour.... Hmm, again I think a bug. If we're going to have something wierd, let's at least make it a decent quality easter egg... ;-) (thinks Doom style gallery of developer's servered head on pikes!) > >>o Crtl-A (select all) does not work in most of the text boxes e.g. > >>analyse/vacuum message window > >> Databse properties comment > >> ... > >> > >> > Not a bug; Ctrl-A is not a standard key for text boxes. Use Home and > Shift-End instead. Only STC boxes know this key sequence. If we start > implementing every key that STC knows we will go mad. Ctrl-A is standard as far as I am aware - I use it all the time in numerous apps. Regards, Dave.
Dave Page wrote: >>> >>> >>I agree, I'm a keyboarder too, but Ctrl-Z isn't a standard >>text control >>key either. Only clipboard keys are standard. >> >> > >Depends on your definition of standard I guess: >http://www.microsoft.com/enable/products/keyboard/keyboardresults.asp?Product=27 > Do you want to implement CTRL+Windows Key+F in a text control?!? > > > >>>I'm not sure I'd want to base any application design on what's >>>impemented in Mozilla anyway. >>> >>> >>> >>Didn't intend to suggest that... >> >> > >That's good ;-) > > While I'm thinking again about that... We don't really like M$, so we should stick to the global emacs keyboard standard I believe. I'm just reassigning all keyboard mappings for pgAdmin3. Emacs is available on all platforms, so we should adopt that, don't you think? I'm an old Emacs fan either, and Ctrl-Y for "Yank" is much more intuitive than Ctrl-V for "Paste". Regards, Andreas Ctrl-X Ctrl-S Ctrl-X Ctrl-C
> -----Original Message----- > From: Andreas Pflug [mailto:pgadmin@pse-consulting.de] > Sent: 15 August 2003 10:23 > To: Dave Page > Cc: claus; pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [pgadmin-hackers] Some remarks to pgadmin III > > > Dave Page wrote: > > > > >Actually I do, especially when the content length exceeds > the size of > >the text box. I use very few keys in Windows, but I do use Ctrl-A, > >Ctrl-C, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-Z and Ctrl-V a great deal. In many ways the > >keyboard can be quicker than the mouse. > > > I agree, I'm a keyboarder too, but Ctrl-Z isn't a standard > text control > key either. Only clipboard keys are standard. Depends on your definition of standard I guess: http://www.microsoft.com/enable/products/keyboard/keyboardresults.asp?Pr oduct=27 > >I'm not sure I'd want to base any application design on what's > >impemented in Mozilla anyway. > > > Didn't intend to suggest that... That's good ;-) Regards, Dave.
Dave Page wrote: > >Actually I do, especially when the content length exceeds the size of >the text box. I use very few keys in Windows, but I do use Ctrl-A, >Ctrl-C, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-Z and Ctrl-V a great deal. In many ways the >keyboard can be quicker than the mouse. > I agree, I'm a keyboarder too, but Ctrl-Z isn't a standard text control key either. Only clipboard keys are standard. >I'm not sure I'd want to base any application design on what's >impemented in Mozilla anyway. > Didn't intend to suggest that... Regards, Andreas
> -----Original Message----- > From: Andreas Pflug [mailto:pgadmin@pse-consulting.de] > Sent: 15 August 2003 09:47 > To: Dave Page > Cc: claus; pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [pgadmin-hackers] Some remarks to pgadmin III > > > Dave Page wrote: > > >>Not a bug; Ctrl-A is not a standard key for text boxes. Use Home and > >>Shift-End instead. Only STC boxes know this key sequence. > If we start > >>implementing every key that STC knows we will go mad. > >> > >> > > > >Ctrl-A is standard as far as I am aware - I use it all the time in > >numerous apps. > > > > > You maybe use it in the main edit field, but certainly not in > any simple > text field! Actually I do, especially when the content length exceeds the size of the text box. I use very few keys in Windows, but I do use Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-X, Ctrl-Z and Ctrl-V a great deal. In many ways the keyboard can be quicker than the mouse. > This would be needed to be implemented deep in > wxWindows anyway. Oh yes, I realise that. I don't consider this a bug that we should hold up any release for, but it would be a useful one to fix for some people. > BTW, mozilla doesn't support this even in > the compose window; Ctrl-A is > emacs-like "beginning-of-line" I'm not sure I'd want to base any application design on what's impemented in Mozilla anyway. Regards, Dave.
Dave Page wrote: >>Not a bug; Ctrl-A is not a standard key for text boxes. Use Home and >>Shift-End instead. Only STC boxes know this key sequence. If we start >>implementing every key that STC knows we will go mad. >> >> > >Ctrl-A is standard as far as I am aware - I use it all the time in >numerous apps. > > You maybe use it in the main edit field, but certainly not in any simple text field! This would be needed to be implemented deep in wxWindows anyway. BTW, mozilla doesn't support this even in the compose window; Ctrl-A is emacs-like "beginning-of-line" Regards, Andreas
I just stumbled over some other things that seem more likely
to be feature requests :-)
View Data:
Column sort order change by clicking on the column header
works in pgadmin II but seems to be absent in pgadmin III.
Ctrl-Shift-End does not work nore does Ctrl-Shift-Home
All of the cursor based selection fetures seem to be strange.
e.g.
try from 1/A selecting 4 cells down (4/A)
then ctrl-shift-curs right ... surprinsing :-)
try from 1/A ctrl-shift-curs right,
page down (w/o any other key)
use shift-cursor up ontil the first line
amazing :-)
Copy / Paste does not work in Data Output Frame
neither keyboard nore right click nore edit menu even
though the menu items are selectable. :-(
Could there be an option to copy the column headings ?
Query Tool:
No Ctrl-A ... (Ctrl-.Shift-End works)
Clicking in the upper left table cross does not select all the table.
Copy / Paste does not work in Data Output Frame
neither keyboard nore right click nore edit menu even
though the menu items are selectable. :-(
Could there be an option to copy the column headings ?
Just one question for my own curiosity:
Why dont yous use the same code for both grids?
Ok one is editable but at list selection and navigation
behaviour could be the same.
Sorry of being so picky with the GUI and navigation
and please do not think that I want to make pgadmin bahave like
all the M$ Office Programs ... these are just suggestions
whilst I do not know alternative key that do what I want.
Thank you for your great responsiveness.
Regards, Claus
I just stumbled over some other things that seem more likely
to be feature requests :-)
View Data:
Column sort order change by clicking on the column header
works in pgadmin II but seems to be absent in pgadmin III.
Ctrl-Shift-End does not work nore does Ctrl-Shift-Home
All of the cursor based selection fetures seem to be strange.
e.g.
try from 1/A selecting 4 cells down (4/A)
then ctrl-shift-curs right ... surprinsing :-)
try from 1/A ctrl-shift-curs right,
page down (w/o any other key)
use shift-cursor up ontil the first line
amazing :-)
Copy / Paste does not work in Data Output Frame
neither keyboard nore right click nore edit menu even
though the menu items are selectable. :-(
Could there be an option to copy the column headings ?
Query Tool:
No Ctrl-A ... (Ctrl-.Shift-End works)
Clicking in the upper left table cross does not select all the table.
Copy / Paste does not work in Data Output Frame
neither keyboard nore right click nore edit menu even
though the menu items are selectable. :-(
Could there be an option to copy the column headings ?
Just one question for my own curiosity:
Why dont yous use the same code for both grids?
Ok one is editable but at list selection and navigation
behaviour could be the same.
Sorry of being so picky with the GUI and navigation.
Thank you for your great responsiveness.
Regards, Claus
Dave Page wrote: >>>>While I'm thinking again about that... We don't really like M$, >>>>so we should stick to the global emacs keyboard standard I >>>>believe. I'm just reassigning all keyboard mappings for pgAdmin3. >>>>Emacs is available on all platforms, so we should adopt that, don't >>>>you think? I'm an old Emacs fan either, and Ctrl-Y for "Yank" is >>>>much more intuitive than Ctrl-V for "Paste". >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>I'll assume that's a joke in rather poor taste :-p >>> >>> >>> >>> >>I _never_ make jokes about Emacs, how in hell did you get >>that impression? >> >> > >You said you were going to change the shortcut keys from those known by >probably the vast majority of computer users in the world - on Windows, >KDE and other system - (and certainly the vast majority of pgAdmin >users) to a standard used by an editor rarely used on the most popular >PC OS, and either loved _or_ hated by those that use it on other OSen. > I'm already done with it, this is worth a beta-2 release, don't you think? >>We now have PostgreSQL, PostgrEMACS is the future. >> >> > >Yuh. > I knew you'd like it.... :o) Regards, Andreas PS I didn't scare you, did I?
> -----Original Message----- > From: Andreas Pflug [mailto:pgadmin@pse-consulting.de] > Sent: 15 August 2003 11:43 > To: Dave Page > Cc: pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [pgadmin-hackers] Some remarks to pgadmin III > > > Dave Page wrote: > > > > > > >>While I'm thinking again about that... We don't really like M$, > >>so we should stick to the global emacs keyboard standard I > >>believe. I'm just reassigning all keyboard mappings for pgAdmin3. > >>Emacs is available on all platforms, so we should adopt that, don't > >>you think? I'm an old Emacs fan either, and Ctrl-Y for "Yank" is > >>much more intuitive than Ctrl-V for "Paste". > >> > >> > > > >I'll assume that's a joke in rather poor taste :-p > > > > > I _never_ make jokes about Emacs, how in hell did you get > that impression? You said you were going to change the shortcut keys from those known by probably the vast majority of computer users in the world - on Windows, KDE and other system - (and certainly the vast majority of pgAdmin users) to a standard used by an editor rarely used on the most popular PC OS, and either loved _or_ hated by those that use it on other OSen. > Emacs is the first and best editor ever, > I've been using it since 1983 > on the Atari ST. Let's evangelize the world! We now have PostgreSQL, > PostgrEMACS is the future. Yuh. /D
Dave Page wrote: > > >>While I'm thinking again about that... We don't really like M$, >>so we should stick to the global emacs keyboard standard I >>believe. I'm just reassigning all keyboard mappings for pgAdmin3. >>Emacs is available on all platforms, so we should adopt that, don't >>you think? I'm an old Emacs fan either, and Ctrl-Y for "Yank" is >>much more intuitive than Ctrl-V for "Paste". >> >> > >I'll assume that's a joke in rather poor taste :-p > > I _never_ make jokes about Emacs, how in hell did you get that impression? Emacs is the first and best editor ever, I've been using it since 1983 on the Atari ST. Let's evangelize the world! We now have PostgreSQL, PostgrEMACS is the future. Regards, Andreas
> -----Original Message----- > From: Andreas Pflug [mailto:pgadmin@pse-consulting.de] > Sent: 15 August 2003 10:56 > To: Dave Page > Cc: pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [pgadmin-hackers] Some remarks to pgadmin III > > > Do you want to implement CTRL+Windows Key+F in a text control?!? Not unless you want to search for all computers on the Windows network from pgAdmin which I really don't think is necessary. > While I'm thinking again about that... We don't really like M$, > so we should stick to the global emacs keyboard standard I > believe. I'm just reassigning all keyboard mappings for pgAdmin3. > Emacs is available on all platforms, so we should adopt that, don't > you think? I'm an old Emacs fan either, and Ctrl-Y for "Yank" is > much more intuitive than Ctrl-V for "Paste". I'll assume that's a joke in rather poor taste :-p Regards, Dave
claus wrote: >I just stumbled over some other things that seem more likely >to be feature requests :-) > >View Data: >Column sort order change by clicking on the column header > works in pgadmin II but seems to be absent in pgadmin III. > Data is NOT held in the grid, but on the server, and only retrieved when requested, so sorting would require a re-query. >Ctrl-Shift-End does not work nore does Ctrl-Shift-Home >All of the cursor based selection fetures seem to be strange. > e.g. > try from 1/A selecting 4 cells down (4/A) > then ctrl-shift-curs right ... surprinsing :-) > > try from 1/A ctrl-shift-curs right, > page down (w/o any other key) > use shift-cursor up ontil the first line > amazing :-) > >Copy / Paste does not work in Data Output Frame > neither keyboard nore right click nore edit menu even > though the menu items are selectable. :-( > Only the contents of edit controls is copyable/pasteable. What should happen after you selected some cells? There's nothing you could do with that. If you say "copy to clipboard" I'd ask "which format"? There's no reasonable format for table or multi column data. And we probably won't implement private MS Excel clipboard formats. >Could there be an option to copy the column headings ? > Again: which format? Nothing senseful around. We have the Export function, which has quite some options to satisfy different format needs. None of them is sufficient for clipboard purposes. > > >Query Tool: >No Ctrl-A ... (Ctrl-.Shift-End works) > Ctrl-A works where it makes sense, in the query edit field. >Clicking in the upper left table cross does not select all the table. >Copy / Paste does not work in Data Output Frame > neither keyboard nore right click nore edit menu even > though the menu items are selectable. :-( >Could there be an option to copy the column headings ? > >Just one question for my own curiosity: >Why dont yous use the same code for both grids? >Ok one is editable but at list selection and navigation >behaviour could be the same. > They serve different needs. EditGrid implementation doesn't hold the data, while the output of the Query Tool holds this data itself. The grid isn't good in keeping much data (it's becoming really slooooooooow), that's why it's implemented as listview. Regards, Andreas
Andreas Pflug wrote: >Data is NOT held in the grid, but on the server, and only retrieved when >requested, so sorting would require a re-query. Hmm ... you are the developper ... but since I can scroll up and down ... I guess the data is on the client somewhere? Also the button refresh and the status line "Refreshing data, please wait" indicate that data is tranfered to the client. Since it is on the client (in a grid or another datastructure) couldn't it just be sorted localy ? >>Copy / Paste does not work in Data Output Frame >> neither keyboard nore right click nore edit menu even >> though the menu items are selectable. :-( >> >Only the contents of edit controls is copyable/pasteable. What should >happen after you selected some cells? There's nothing you could do with >that. If you say "copy to clipboard" I'd ask "which format"? There's no >reasonable format for table or multi column data. And we probably won't >implement private MS Excel clipboard formats. Of course not ... I thought of a tab-separated format with \t and \n placeholders for actual tab characters and linefeeds in the strings. MS Query seems to do it that way eventhough I do not know how it handles linefeeds and tab characters. >>Could there be an option to copy the column headings ? >> >Again: which format? Nothing senseful around. We have the Export >function, which has quite some options to satisfy different format >needs. None of them is sufficient for clipboard purposes. Idem. >>Query Tool: >>No Ctrl-A ... (Ctrl-.Shift-End works) >> >Ctrl-A works where it makes sense, in the query edit field. I would use it to select the all the result in order to copy it using the tabseparated format :-) BTW if no copying of data is allowed so what is the cell selectiuon thing about. Row high lighting makes sense to make it easier to look at the line while scrolling to the horizontly >Regards, >Andreas Regards, Claus P.S: I know that I am a PITA ;-)
Claus Helbing wrote: >Andreas Pflug wrote: > > > >>Data is NOT held in the grid, but on the server, and only retrieved when >>requested, so sorting would require a re-query. >> >> > >Hmm ... you are the developper ... but since I can scroll up and down ... >I guess the data is on the client somewhere? >Also the button refresh and the status line "Refreshing data, please wait" >indicate that data is tranfered to the client. >Since it is on the client (in a grid or another datastructure) >couldn't it just be sorted localy ? > It is done on the server, and only rows needed are transferred on demand to the client. There's only a cache on the client side. Believe me, no chance to sort! > >Of course not ... I thought of a tab-separated format with \t and \n >placeholders for actual tab characters and linefeeds in the strings. >MS Query seems to do it that way eventhough I do not know how it >handles linefeeds and tab characters. > > > >>>Could there be an option to copy the column headings ? >>> >>> >>> >>Again: which format? Nothing senseful around. We have the Export >>function, which has quite some options to satisfy different format >>needs. None of them is sufficient for clipboard purposes. >> >> >Idem. > > Why \t? I virtually never use that format. I prefer ; .... And \n or \n\r ? And so on. This is an endless story. > > >>>Query Tool: >>>No Ctrl-A ... (Ctrl-.Shift-End works) >>> >>> >>> >>Ctrl-A works where it makes sense, in the query edit field. >> >> >I would use it to select the all the result in order to copy it >using the tabseparated format :-) > >BTW if no copying of data is allowed so what is the cell selectiuon >thing about. > > Rows can be marked to be deleted. It's always the problem about those multifunctional controls. You often get partial features you don't really need, or even irritate. And it's even not complete, we're not too happy with in-place editing capabilities. If you'd like to implement a replacement... platform independent, of course. >P.S: I know that I am a PITA ;-) > > No, not yet. Just post more bugs :-) Regards, Andreas
Adam H. Pendleton wrote: >> > Actually, this behaviour (that is selecting all the text in the > current window/field) *is* supported by Mozilla, on ALL platforms, > including Linux, Mac, and Windows. On Linux, the key sequence is > Alt-A. Mac Command-A. Win Ctrl-A. > So Ctrl-A is obviously not standard... which means that it must be implemented platform dependent for standard controls, i.e. in wxWindows. Regards, Andreas
Andreas Pflug wrote: >Data is NOT held in the grid, but on the server, and only retrieved when >requested, so sorting would require a re-query. Hmm ... you are the developper ... but since I can scroll up and down ... I guess the data is on the client somewhere? Also the button refresh and the status line "Refreshing data, please wait" indicate that data is tranfered to the client. Since it is on the client (in a grid or another datastructure) couldn't it just be sorted localy ? >>Copy / Paste does not work in Data Output Frame >> neither keyboard nore right click nore edit menu even >> though the menu items are selectable. :-( >> >Only the contents of edit controls is copyable/pasteable. What should >happen after you selected some cells? There's nothing you could do with >that. If you say "copy to clipboard" I'd ask "which format"? There's no >reasonable format for table or multi column data. And we probably won't >implement private MS Excel clipboard formats. Of course not ... I thought of a tab-separated format with \t and \n placeholders for actual tab characters and linefeeds in the strings. MS Query seems to do it that way eventhough I do not know how it handles linefeeds and tab characters. >>Could there be an option to copy the column headings ? >> >Again: which format? Nothing senseful around. We have the Export >function, which has quite some options to satisfy different format >needs. None of them is sufficient for clipboard purposes. Idem. >>Query Tool: >>No Ctrl-A ... (Ctrl-.Shift-End works) >> >Ctrl-A works where it makes sense, in the query edit field. I would use it to select the all the result in order to copy it using the tabseparated format :-) BTW if no copying of data is allowed so what is the cell selectiuon thing about. Row high lighting makes sense to make it easier to look at the line while scrolling to the horizontly >Regards, >Andreas Regards, Claus P.S: I know that I am a PITA ;-)
Adam H. Pendleton wrote: > Andreas Pflug wrote: > >> Adam, >> this is a waste of time. DATA IS NOT COMPLETELY ON THE CLIENT, as I >> stated earlier. The grid doesn't have a chance to sort unless all >> data is loaded, but it's just the special feature that data is *not* >> loaded completely! > > > What data exactly isn't at the client? All data that's never been displayed. > If the sorting of the data that *is* at the client (the values > displayed in the grid are most certainly rows inside the grid control > inside the application running on the user's PC) is implemented at the > wxWindows level and is completely transparent to pgadmin3, what > difference could it possible make? Adam, I believe it's time you have a look at the source what's really going on there. The grid doesn't have control over the data, it's pgadmin3 managing it. > > >> Other libraries don't implement this either. You'd have another >> problem: Which key code is going to be "Select all"? Is it the one >> that seems to be used more or less widely on the platform, >> Apple-A/Ctrl-A/Alt-A, or the one that many editors use, including the >> embedded Scintilla which implements a complete set of keyboard >> shortcuts? I doubt that the wx people would accept any of both >> solutions. > > > As I said in my previous e-mail, the key sequence and the behavior > isn't driven by the library, it's driven by the control/widgets that > wxWindows uses to implement its dialogs in a native format. For > example on Linux, the select all text would work if the GTK+ widget > for a text box supported it. The same with the comctl32.dll controls > on Windows. This is the whole point of a window manager implementing > widgets for its application to use: common behavior across all its > applications without having to write code to handle it at the > application level. Now if Scintilla wants to override this default > window manager behavior, and implement its own shortcuts, then more > power to it, but it doesn't change anything with regard to what we're > talking about. All I'm saying is that the standard window manager > behavior should be supported and implemented, if possible (and it > shouldn't require any code by us). > > Take, for example, the Minimize/Maximize/Close buttons in the > upper-right corner of every Windows application. You don't implement > the code to create these boxes, specify their behavior, handle their > events, etc. This is done by the window manager. You just create a > window, tell the window manager whether you want those boxes to > appear, and that's it (well the Close box event gets handled, but its > a special case). You also don't implement code to handle movement of > the window around the screen, except for the regular re-size, re-draw > events, and then only if you have special circumstances. This is the > exact same thing as supporting Ctrl-A,Alt-A, or whatever the standard > "Select All" key combination is for the particular window manager. > NOTE: I am definitely saying that implementing this should*NOT* be > done at the pgAdmin3 level, unless absolutely necessary, and if it > does become necessary then we can argue over which key combinations to > use. > Minimize/Maximize is implemented by GDI and gtk, Select All is not. You want to change the Win API? Good luck.... BTW, Alt-A is quite a bad idea, Alt keys should be left free for application shortcuts, not used by controls. Regards, Andreas > ahp > >> >> >> Regards, >> Andreas >> >> >> > > >
Andreas Pflug wrote: > Thanks, I appreciate the compliments. It proves that I implemented it > smoothly. You might notice a delay it when you're connected to the > server over a slow line. > > Look at the code if you don't believe that data is really loaded on > demand. Every time a row is touched that's not in the cache > (!line->cols), sqlTable::GetValue will consult the Dataset for the > column values of that row. What would cause a row to *not* be in the cache, assuming that all rows are added to the cache when the data is displayed (disclaimer: I haven't looked at the code yet today, because I've done quite enough of that with my own work today, thank you very much :-) ). ahp
Andreas Pflug wrote: > Adam, > this is a waste of time. DATA IS NOT COMPLETELY ON THE CLIENT, as I > stated earlier. The grid doesn't have a chance to sort unless all data > is loaded, but it's just the special feature that data is *not* loaded > completely! What data exactly isn't at the client? If the sorting of the data that *is* at the client (the values displayed in the grid are most certainly rows inside the grid control inside the application running on the user's PC) is implemented at the wxWindows level and is completely transparent to pgadmin3, what difference could it possible make? > Other libraries don't implement this either. You'd have another > problem: Which key code is going to be "Select all"? Is it the one > that seems to be used more or less widely on the platform, > Apple-A/Ctrl-A/Alt-A, or the one that many editors use, including the > embedded Scintilla which implements a complete set of keyboard > shortcuts? I doubt that the wx people would accept any of both solutions. As I said in my previous e-mail, the key sequence and the behavior isn't driven by the library, it's driven by the control/widgets that wxWindows uses to implement its dialogs in a native format. For example on Linux, the select all text would work if the GTK+ widget for a text box supported it. The same with the comctl32.dll controls on Windows. This is the whole point of a window manager implementing widgets for its application to use: common behavior across all its applications without having to write code to handle it at the application level. Now if Scintilla wants to override this default window manager behavior, and implement its own shortcuts, then more power to it, but it doesn't change anything with regard to what we're talking about. All I'm saying is that the standard window manager behavior should be supported and implemented, if possible (and it shouldn't require any code by us). Take, for example, the Minimize/Maximize/Close buttons in the upper-right corner of every Windows application. You don't implement the code to create these boxes, specify their behavior, handle their events, etc. This is done by the window manager. You just create a window, tell the window manager whether you want those boxes to appear, and that's it (well the Close box event gets handled, but its a special case). You also don't implement code to handle movement of the window around the screen, except for the regular re-size, re-draw events, and then only if you have special circumstances. This is the exact same thing as supporting Ctrl-A,Alt-A, or whatever the standard "Select All" key combination is for the particular window manager. NOTE: I am definitely saying that implementing this should*NOT* be done at the pgAdmin3 level, unless absolutely necessary, and if it does become necessary then we can argue over which key combinations to use. ahp > > > Regards, > Andreas > > >
claus wrote: >Is there still some hope :-)) > >Adam H. Pendleton wrote: > > >>I assume when you say that sorting the rows would require a re-query, >>you are referring to a new SQL statement with a "ORDER BY" clause. I >>think what he's asking for is perfectly do-able without a new query. >>Since the rows are stored in a grid control of some sort, then you >>should be able to sort the rows using the function of that grid control >>itself. This sort would have *no* impact on the actual data, where it >>is in the database, etc. I would imagine that this sort of this would >>be possible only if the wxWindows control used to display the data >>supported it. I will do some reasearch and see if it can be done. >> >> > >That is when I said that data is around in some form. >I just tested a table with 13000 entries ... >after "refreshing" it **realy** seems to me all data is on my PC. >When scrolling there is absolutely **no** freeze, flicker or >other indication of data being fetched in a lazy way. > Thanks, I appreciate the compliments. It proves that I implemented it smoothly. You might notice a delay it when you're connected to the server over a slow line. Look at the code if you don't believe that data is really loaded on demand. Every time a row is touched that's not in the cache (!line->cols), sqlTable::GetValue will consult the Dataset for the column values of that row. >Also the sliders of the grid indicate perfectly where are in the >data ... ok that might be done using a "total row count" value. > Fortunately libpq supplies this value. sliders that don't represent the position are a Mega-PITA, degrading the slider to a "next page" button. I'd never code stuff like that. >For those who worked with tools doing on demand row fetch. >(I think Delphi 3 Datamanger and Free Toad for Oracle) >they know what I mean. > Poor software all over the world.... Regards, Andreas
Adam H. Pendleton wrote: > > I assume when you say that sorting the rows would require a re-query, > you are referring to a new SQL statement with a "ORDER BY" clause. I > think what he's asking for is perfectly do-able without a new query. > Since the rows are stored in a grid control of some sort, then you > should be able to sort the rows using the function of that grid > control itself. This sort would have *no* impact on the actual data, > where it is in the database, etc. I would imagine that this sort of > this would be possible only if the wxWindows control used to display > the data supported it. I will do some reasearch and see if it can be > done. Adam, this is a waste of time. DATA IS NOT COMPLETELY ON THE CLIENT, as I stated earlier. The grid doesn't have a chance to sort unless all data is loaded, but it's just the special feature that data is *not* loaded completely! > Andreas is right about this one. Ctrl-A (select all text) is only > going to work if wxWindows supports it. Really it should be a > function of the control/widget that the text boxes are natively > implemented in (comctrl32.dll on win), so I see no reason that it > shouldn't work. Again, I will do some reasearch and see what I can > dig up. Other libraries don't implement this either. You'd have another problem: Which key code is going to be "Select all"? Is it the one that seems to be used more or less widely on the platform, Apple-A/Ctrl-A/Alt-A, or the one that many editors use, including the embedded Scintilla which implements a complete set of keyboard shortcuts? I doubt that the wx people would accept any of both solutions. Regards, Andreas
Is there still some hope :-)) Adam H. Pendleton wrote: > I assume when you say that sorting the rows would require a re-query, > you are referring to a new SQL statement with a "ORDER BY" clause. I > think what he's asking for is perfectly do-able without a new query. > Since the rows are stored in a grid control of some sort, then you > should be able to sort the rows using the function of that grid control > itself. This sort would have *no* impact on the actual data, where it > is in the database, etc. I would imagine that this sort of this would > be possible only if the wxWindows control used to display the data > supported it. I will do some reasearch and see if it can be done. That is when I said that data is around in some form. I just tested a table with 13000 entries ... after "refreshing" it **realy** seems to me all data is on my PC. When scrolling there is absolutely **no** freeze, flicker or other indication of data being fetched in a lazy way. Also the sliders of the grid indicate perfectly where are in the data ... ok that might be done using a "total row count" value. For those who worked with tools doing on demand row fetch. (I think Delphi 3 Datamanger and Free Toad for Oracle) they know what I mean. Regards, Claus
Andreas Pflug wrote: > Claus Helbing wrote: > >> Andreas Pflug wrote: >> >> >> >>> Data is NOT held in the grid, but on the server, and only retrieved >>> when requested, so sorting would require a re-query. >>> >> >> >> Hmm ... you are the developper ... but since I can scroll up and down >> ... >> I guess the data is on the client somewhere? >> Also the button refresh and the status line "Refreshing data, please >> wait" >> indicate that data is tranfered to the client. >> Since it is on the client (in a grid or another datastructure) >> couldn't it just be sorted localy ? >> > It is done on the server, and only rows needed are transferred on > demand to the client. There's only a cache on the client side. > Believe me, no chance to sort! I assume when you say that sorting the rows would require a re-query, you are referring to a new SQL statement with a "ORDER BY" clause. I think what he's asking for is perfectly do-able without a new query. Since the rows are stored in a grid control of some sort, then you should be able to sort the rows using the function of that grid control itself. This sort would have *no* impact on the actual data, where it is in the database, etc. I would imagine that this sort of this would be possible only if the wxWindows control used to display the data supported it. I will do some reasearch and see if it can be done. >>>> Query Tool: >>>> No Ctrl-A ... (Ctrl-.Shift-End works) >>>> >>>> >>> Andreas is right about this one. Ctrl-A (select all text) is only going to work if wxWindows supports it. Really it should be a function of the control/widget that the text boxes are natively implemented in (comctrl32.dll on win), so I see no reason that it shouldn't work. Again, I will do some reasearch and see what I can dig up. ahp
OK ... I surrender on copy / paste and sorting. I promise I will use only "Export data to file" and work the output using M$ Excel ;-p Regards, Claus P.S: But I still like copy / paste ;-)) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andreas Pflug" <pgadmin@pse-consulting.de> To: "Claus Helbing" <claus.helbing@descom-consulting.ch> Cc: <pgadmin-hackers@postgresql.org> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [pgadmin-hackers] Some remarks to pgadmin III > Claus Helbing wrote: > > >Andreas Pflug wrote: > > > > > > > >>Data is NOT held in the grid, but on the server, and only retrieved when > >>requested, so sorting would require a re-query. > >> > >> > > > >Hmm ... you are the developper ... but since I can scroll up and down ... > >I guess the data is on the client somewhere? > >Also the button refresh and the status line "Refreshing data, please wait" > >indicate that data is tranfered to the client. > >Since it is on the client (in a grid or another datastructure) > >couldn't it just be sorted localy ? > > > It is done on the server, and only rows needed are transferred on demand > to the client. There's only a cache on the client side. Believe me, no > chance to sort! > > > > >Of course not ... I thought of a tab-separated format with \t and \n > >placeholders for actual tab characters and linefeeds in the strings. > >MS Query seems to do it that way eventhough I do not know how it > >handles linefeeds and tab characters. > > > > > > > >>>Could there be an option to copy the column headings ? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>Again: which format? Nothing senseful around. We have the Export > >>function, which has quite some options to satisfy different format > >>needs. None of them is sufficient for clipboard purposes. > >> > >> > >Idem. > > > > > Why \t? I virtually never use that format. I prefer ; .... And \n or > \n\r ? And so on. This is an endless story. > > > > > > >>>Query Tool: > >>>No Ctrl-A ... (Ctrl-.Shift-End works) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>Ctrl-A works where it makes sense, in the query edit field. > >> > >> > >I would use it to select the all the result in order to copy it > >using the tabseparated format :-) > > > >BTW if no copying of data is allowed so what is the cell selectiuon > >thing about. > > > > > Rows can be marked to be deleted. > It's always the problem about those multifunctional controls. You often > get partial features you don't really need, or even irritate. And it's > even not complete, we're not too happy with in-place editing > capabilities. If you'd like to implement a replacement... platform > independent, of course. > > >P.S: I know that I am a PITA ;-) > > > > > No, not yet. Just post more bugs :-) > > Regards, > Andreas
Andreas Pflug wrote: > You maybe use it in the main edit field, but certainly not in any > simple text field! This would be needed to be implemented deep in > wxWindows anyway. > BTW, mozilla doesn't support this even in the compose window; Ctrl-A > is emacs-like "beginning-of-line" > Actually, this behaviour (that is selecting all the text in the current window/field) *is* supported by Mozilla, on ALL platforms, including Linux, Mac, and Windows. On Linux, the key sequence is Alt-A. Mac Command-A. Win Ctrl-A. ahp
Dave Page wrote:
ahp
I'll chime in and agree here on Ctrl-A, especially since the same behaviour is supported on Mac with Apple-A.Ctrl-A is standard as far as I am aware - I use it all the time in numerous apps.
ahp
Andreas Pflug wrote: > Adam, I believe it's time you have a look at the source what's really > going on there. The grid doesn't have control over the data, it's > pgadmin3 managing it. Yeah, that's a good idea. :-) Not today, though, my head hurts. Besides, I don't really want to be able to sort the data, I just just trying to help claudius. :) > Minimize/Maximize is implemented by GDI and gtk, Select All is not. > You want to change the Win API? Good luck.... > BTW, Alt-A is quite a bad idea, Alt keys should be left free for > application shortcuts, not used by controls. Okay, as much as I hate to admit it, I was wrong. It looks like (at least as far as wxWindows is concerned) if we want to support Ctrl-A, we would have to implement it ourself. It shouldn't be too hard, though, the question would be: *) What key sequence(s) are we going to support? *) What does Ctrl-A (or whatever) mean depending on what window/box/control is selected. A Ctrl-A in the tree view would be very different from a Ctrl-A in the SQL pane. Do we want to do this, if so, what are the answers to the above questions. ahp
Adam H. Pendleton wrote: > Andreas Pflug wrote: > >> Adam, I believe it's time you have a look at the source what's really >> going on there. The grid doesn't have control over the data, it's >> pgadmin3 managing it. > > > Yeah, that's a good idea. :-) Not today, though, my head hurts. > Besides, I don't really want to be able to sort the data, I just just > trying to help claudius. :) > >> Minimize/Maximize is implemented by GDI and gtk, Select All is not. >> You want to change the Win API? Good luck.... >> BTW, Alt-A is quite a bad idea, Alt keys should be left free for >> application shortcuts, not used by controls. > > > Okay, as much as I hate to admit it, I was wrong. It looks like (at > least as far as wxWindows is concerned) if we want to support Ctrl-A, > we would have to implement it ourself. It shouldn't be too hard, > though, the question would be: > > *) What key sequence(s) are we going to support? > *) What does Ctrl-A (or whatever) mean depending on what > window/box/control is selected. A Ctrl-A in the tree view would be > very different from a Ctrl-A in the SQL pane. > > Do we want to do this, if so, what are the answers to the above > questions. At the moment, controls that are designated for large editing jobs *do* support Ctrl-A and a lot of other stuff (deriving their capabilities from STC, the wxWindows embedded Scintilla), so I'm quite comfortable with the current implementation. Documenting current keys would be nice, unfortunately wxWindows isn't too verbose about STC's keys... Regards, Andreas
Andreas Pflug wrote: > Thanks, I appreciate the compliments. It proves that I implemented it > smoothly. You might notice a delay it when you're connected to the > server over a slow line. > > Look at the code if you don't believe that data is really loaded on > demand. Every time a row is touched that's not in the cache > (!line->cols), sqlTable::GetValue will consult the Dataset for the > column values of that row. Indeed it seems perfect to me. A very nice piece of work !!! Regards, Claus