Thread: Need license clarification on some web graphics
I've recieved a submission of some postgresql related web graphics that I was planning to add to the graphics repository. While I was uploading them the thought hit me that we might have a problem with some of these. First two examples of ones that are ok: http://xzilla.postgresql.org/layout/images/2_160x600.gif http://xzilla.postgresql.org/layout/images/14_160x600.gif both very nice and wonderful, but I am wondering about this one: http://xzilla.postgresql.org/layout/images/15_160x600.gif It uses the "photo elephant" which I not sure what the license status is. The relevant link in the archives seems to be http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2004-12/msg00290.php but it is less than definitive since we would not be using these images on the postgresql website per say, they would be out in the wild (though under a cc license). I have about a dozen more of these using the "photo elephant" so before I put them up, can I get an ok from someone? -- Robert Treat Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
On Saturday 11 February 2006 10:50, Robert Treat wrote: > I've recieved a submission of some postgresql related web graphics that I > was planning to add to the graphics repository. While I was uploading them > the thought hit me that we might have a problem with some of these. First > two examples of ones that are ok: > > http://xzilla.postgresql.org/layout/images/2_160x600.gif > http://xzilla.postgresql.org/layout/images/14_160x600.gif > > both very nice and wonderful, but I am wondering about this one: > > http://xzilla.postgresql.org/layout/images/15_160x600.gif > > It uses the "photo elephant" which I not sure what the license status is. > The relevant link in the archives seems to be > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2004-12/msg00290.php > but it is less than definitive since we would not be using these images on > the postgresql website per say, they would be out in the wild (though under > a cc license). I have about a dozen more of these using the "photo > elephant" so before I put them up, can I get an ok from someone? So I guess given no response in 48 hours, I should assume that these photos are legally poisoned? In that case can we get a new elephant photo that we can use on the website and in web buttons? Joshua, you mentioned something way back when about making a replacement pic, how about now? -- Robert Treat Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
Robert Treat wrote: > On Saturday 11 February 2006 10:50, Robert Treat wrote: > >> I've recieved a submission of some postgresql related web graphics that I >> was planning to add to the graphics repository. While I was uploading them >> the thought hit me that we might have a problem with some of these. First >> two examples of ones that are ok: >> >> http://xzilla.postgresql.org/layout/images/2_160x600.gif >> http://xzilla.postgresql.org/layout/images/14_160x600.gif >> >> both very nice and wonderful, but I am wondering about this one: >> >> http://xzilla.postgresql.org/layout/images/15_160x600.gif >> >> It uses the "photo elephant" which I not sure what the license status is. >> The relevant link in the archives seems to be >> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2004-12/msg00290.php >> but it is less than definitive since we would not be using these images on >> the postgresql website per say, they would be out in the wild (though under >> a cc license). I have about a dozen more of these using the "photo >> elephant" so before I put them up, can I get an ok from someone? >> > > So I guess given no response in 48 hours, I should assume that these photos > are legally poisoned? In that case can we get a new elephant photo that we > can use on the website and in web buttons? Joshua, you mentioned something > way back when about making a replacement pic, how about now? > Are you speaking to this Joshua? Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: PLphp, PLperl - http://www.commandprompt.com/
Robert Treat wrote: > It uses the "photo elephant" which I not sure what the license status is. The > relevant link in the archives seems to be > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2004-12/msg00290.php > but it is less than definitive since we would not be using these images on the > postgresql website per say, they would be out in the wild (though under a cc > license). I have about a dozen more of these using the "photo elephant" so > before I put them up, can I get an ok from someone? From http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2004-12/msg00283.php "The elephant in the announcement box on the front page is a licensed derivative work of a royalty free image, and Emily Boyd grants the PostgreSQL Global Development Group the right to use said image on the postgresql.org website." "Use by PostgreSQL International sites is possible, but a right to use must be granted by Emily Boyd for each licensee, as per the terms of the original license on the image." I can permit the use of the elephant in specific images (so that it can be used on PostgreSQL International sites or in advertising), and there is absolutely no problem with this. However, the elephant can't be relicensed under a CC license (due to the terms of the original license on the image). Regards, Emily
Robert, > So I guess given no response in 48 hours, I should assume that these photos > are legally poisoned? In that case can we get a new elephant photo that we > can use on the website and in web buttons? Joshua, you mentioned something > way back when about making a replacement pic, how about now? I think Bruce has some pictures of Elephants. Bruce? -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
Josh Berkus wrote: > Robert, > > > So I guess given no response in 48 hours, I should assume that these photos > > are legally poisoned? In that case can we get a new elephant photo that we > > can use on the website and in web buttons? Joshua, you mentioned something > > way back when about making a replacement pic, how about now? > > I think Bruce has some pictures of Elephants. Bruce? Uh, what kind of picture do you need? -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
>> I think Bruce has some pictures of Elephants. Bruce? >> > > Uh, what kind of picture do you need? > If we really need a real elephant... I can go to the zoo ;) Otherwise we can easily mock up an art based elephant. Joshua D. Drake -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: PLphp, PLperl - http://www.commandprompt.com/
> -----Original Message----- > From: pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org > [mailto:pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Emily Boyd > Sent: 14 February 2006 03:52 > To: pgsql-www@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] Need license clarification on some > web graphics > > I can permit the use of the elephant in specific images (so > that it can > be used on PostgreSQL International sites or in advertising), > and there > is absolutely no problem with this. However, the elephant can't be > relicensed under a CC license (due to the terms of the > original license > on the image). Which is great, but as the entire site is and always has been offered for anyone to use under the BSD licence that simply won't work because we have no sensible practical way of excluding specific files from the licence advertised on the project site. Regards, Dave
Dave Page wrote: > Which is great, but as the entire site is and always has been offered > for anyone to use under the BSD licence that simply won't work because > we have no sensible practical way of excluding specific files from the > licence advertised on the project site. As Tom Lane said when this was first raised over a year ago: "The BSD license is not antithetical to living beside non-free stuff (unlike GPL). I agree it would be a good idea to point out somewhere in the relevant docs that the elephant image isn't BSD'd, just so no one mistakenly thinks it is." http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2004-12/msg00278.php Omar Kilani also proposed the text to exclude the image from the BSD license -- I'm not sure if this was ever added to a license file, but that's where it belongs. As this was resolved, and the image has been used on the website since December 2004, I'm not sure why it's necessary to expend resources debating this issue again. Anyway, as I said, there is no problem using the image for any PostgreSQL-related websites or graphics so long as the original license is adhered to. Regards, Emily
> -----Original Message----- > From: pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org > [mailto:pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Emily Boyd > Sent: 14 February 2006 11:57 > To: pgsql-www@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] Need license clarification on some > web graphics > > Dave Page wrote: > > Which is great, but as the entire site is and always has > been offered > > for anyone to use under the BSD licence that simply won't > work because > > we have no sensible practical way of excluding specific > files from the > > licence advertised on the project site. > > As Tom Lane said when this was first raised over a year ago: > > "The BSD license is not antithetical to living beside non-free stuff > (unlike GPL). I agree it would be a good idea to point out > somewhere in > the relevant docs that the elephant image isn't BSD'd, just so no one > mistakenly thinks it is." > > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2004-12/msg00278.php Yes, I know what Tom said and don't disagree with him, however he missed my point. The Gborg site quite clearly states that the entire project is BSD licenced and to exclude individual files from that licence and inform the user through a readme somewhere may easily be misconstrued as misleading and confusing. Regards, Dave
On Tuesday 14 February 2006 06:57, Emily Boyd wrote: > Dave Page wrote: > > Which is great, but as the entire site is and always has been offered > > for anyone to use under the BSD licence that simply won't work because > > we have no sensible practical way of excluding specific files from the > > licence advertised on the project site. > > As Tom Lane said when this was first raised over a year ago: > > "The BSD license is not antithetical to living beside non-free stuff > (unlike GPL). I agree it would be a good idea to point out somewhere in > the relevant docs that the elephant image isn't BSD'd, just so no one > mistakenly thinks it is." > > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-www/2004-12/msg00278.php > > Omar Kilani also proposed the text to exclude the image from the BSD > license -- I'm not sure if this was ever added to a license file, but > that's where it belongs. > > As this was resolved, and the image has been used on the website since > December 2004, I'm not sure why it's necessary to expend resources > debating this issue again. > It wouldn't be if this were just about us using on the website, but we now have people re-using the image in material that is not controlled by the PostgreSQL "web team", which istm is the type of use that we are supposed to be preventing. > Anyway, as I said, there is no problem using the image for any > PostgreSQL-related websites or graphics so long as the original license > is adhered to. > As much as I like that picture, my feeling is it isn't worth it to use the photo if we can't release it under a creative-commons license. Allowing people to remix postgresql related content into their own materials has always been the general policy of the PostgreSQL community, and I see no benefit from going away from that policy in this case; I know I certainly don't want to have to be the license police for people far removed from the project who want to modify these graphics for their own use. -- Robert Treat Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
Robert Treat <xzilla@users.sourceforge.net> writes:
> As much as I like that picture, my feeling is it isn't worth it to use the
> photo if we can't release it under a creative-commons license.
I'm coming around to this point of view as well. It can't be that hard
to find an elephant picture that's out of copyright ...
regards, tom lane
> -----Original Message----- > From: pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org > [mailto:pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Tom Lane > Sent: 14 February 2006 15:15 > To: Robert Treat > Cc: pgsql-www@postgresql.org; Emily Boyd > Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] Need license clarification on some > web graphics > > Robert Treat <xzilla@users.sourceforge.net> writes: > > As much as I like that picture, my feeling is it isn't > worth it to use the > > photo if we can't release it under a creative-commons license. > > I'm coming around to this point of view as well. It can't be > that hard > to find an elephant picture that's out of copyright ... Come to think of it, the pgAdmin elephant is an original from Andreas Pflug. It's certainly under Artistic Licence from us, probably BSD if we ask him nicely (if anyone wants to of course). http://www.pgadmin.org/ Regards, Dave.