Thread: Time to update list of contributors

From:
Josh Berkus
Date:

All,

Time for the annual update of this list:
http://www.postgresql.org/developer/bios

Here's the list of people I gleaned from the release notes (btw, if people 
have countries for the folks who aren't attributed, I'd appreciate them).  
Of course, there are many contributors to essential non-core code who 
should be listed as well:

Tom Lane, USA
Peter Eisentraut, Germany
Bruce Momjian, USA
Simon Riggs, England
Pavan Deolasee, India
Itagaki Takahiro, Japan
Greg Smith, USA
David Fetter, USA
Pavel Stehule, Czech
Greg Stark, USA
Heikki Linnakangas
Oleg Bartunov, Russia
Florian Pflug
Jeff Davis, USA
Trevor Hardcastle
Nikhil S
Holdger Schurig
D'Arcy Cain, Canada
Gevik Babakhani, Netherlands
Teodor Sigaev, Russia
Alvaro Herrera, Chile
Mark Kirkwood, New Zealand
Joachim Wieland
Henry Hotz, USA
Magnus Haeglander, Sweden
Tatsuo Ishii, Japan
Victor Wagner
Bill Moran, USA
Andrew Dunstan, USA
Arul Shaji
Nickolay Samokhvalov, Russia
Neil Conway, Canada
Marc Fournier, Canada
Jaime Casanova, Venezuala
Albert Cervera
Bernd Helmle
Glen Parker
Jan Wieck, USA
Steve Marshall
Paul Bayer
Doug Knight
Greg Sabino Mullane, USA
Chad Wagner
Brendan Jurd
Euler Taviera de Oliveira, Brazil
Joe Conway, USA
Michael M., Germany
Guillaume Smet, France
Mark Cotner
Chris Marcellino, Italy
Dave Cramer, Canada
Devrim Gunduz, Turkey
Jeremy Drake
Marko Kreen, Estonia
Kris Jurka, Finland
Tom Dunstan, USA

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco


From:
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:

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Hash: SHA1

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:08:36 -0800
Josh Berkus <> wrote:

> All,
> 
> Time for the annual update of this list:
> http://www.postgresql.org/developer/bios
> 
> Here's the list of people I gleaned from the release notes (btw, if
> people have countries for the folks who aren't attributed, I'd
> appreciate them). Of course, there are many contributors to essential
> non-core code who should be listed as well:

It would be useful to know the requirements to be listed...

Joshua D. Drake

> 
> Tom Lane, USA
> Peter Eisentraut, Germany
> Bruce Momjian, USA
> Simon Riggs, England
> Pavan Deolasee, India
> Itagaki Takahiro, Japan
> Greg Smith, USA
> David Fetter, USA
> Pavel Stehule, Czech
> Greg Stark, USA
> Heikki Linnakangas
> Oleg Bartunov, Russia
> Florian Pflug
> Jeff Davis, USA
> Trevor Hardcastle
> Nikhil S
> Holdger Schurig
> D'Arcy Cain, Canada
> Gevik Babakhani, Netherlands
> Teodor Sigaev, Russia
> Alvaro Herrera, Chile
> Mark Kirkwood, New Zealand
> Joachim Wieland
> Henry Hotz, USA
> Magnus Haeglander, Sweden
> Tatsuo Ishii, Japan
> Victor Wagner
> Bill Moran, USA
> Andrew Dunstan, USA
> Arul Shaji
> Nickolay Samokhvalov, Russia
> Neil Conway, Canada
> Marc Fournier, Canada
> Jaime Casanova, Venezuala
> Albert Cervera
> Bernd Helmle
> Glen Parker
> Jan Wieck, USA
> Steve Marshall
> Paul Bayer
> Doug Knight
> Greg Sabino Mullane, USA
> Chad Wagner
> Brendan Jurd
> Euler Taviera de Oliveira, Brazil
> Joe Conway, USA
> Michael M., Germany
> Guillaume Smet, France
> Mark Cotner
> Chris Marcellino, Italy
> Dave Cramer, Canada
> Devrim Gunduz, Turkey
> Jeremy Drake
> Marko Kreen, Estonia
> Kris Jurka, Finland
> Tom Dunstan, USA
> 


- -- 
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From:
Kris Jurka
Date:


On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Josh Berkus wrote:

> Kris Jurka, Finland

USA actually.

Kris Jurka


From:
Gregory Stark
Date:

"Josh Berkus" <> writes:

> All,
>
> Time for the annual update of this list:
>...
> Greg Stark, USA

I'm not sure what the countries are supposed to signify but that's neither the
country I hail from nor where I'm currently living.

--  Gregory Stark EnterpriseDB          http://www.enterprisedb.com Ask me about EnterpriseDB's PostGIS support!


From:
Tom Lane
Date:

Gregory Stark <> writes:
> "Josh Berkus" <> writes:
>> Time for the annual update of this list:
>> Greg Stark, USA

> I'm not sure what the countries are supposed to signify but that's
> neither the country I hail from nor where I'm currently living.

Just tell us how you want to be listed ...
        regards, tom lane


From:
"Jaime Casanova"
Date:

On Nov 27, 2007 7:08 PM, Josh Berkus <> wrote:

> Jaime Casanova, Venezuala

Ecuador

> Bernd Helmle

and he's from germany
http://www.oopsware.de/private/bernd.html

-- 
regards,
Jaime Casanova

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to
build bigger and better idiot-proof programs and the universe trying
to produce bigger and better idiots.
So far, the universe is winning."                                      Richard Cook


From:
"Pavan Deolasee"
Date:

<br /><br /><div class="gmail_quote">On Nov 28, 2007 5:38 AM, Josh Berkus <<a
href="mailto:"></a>>wrote:<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br />Nikhil S<br /><br
/></blockquote></div><br/>Nikhil is from India, EnterpriseDB.<br /><br /><br />Thanks,<br />Pavan<br clear="all" /><br
/>--<br />Pavan Deolasee<br />EnterpriseDB     <a href="http://www.enterprisedb.com">http://www.enterprisedb.com </a> 
From:
"Usama Munir"
Date:

IMHO, it may not be a bad idea to list countries , it shows the diversity of the community.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Gregory Stark" <>
To: "" <>
Cc: "" <>; ""
<>
Sent: 28/11/2007 06:30
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Time to update list of contributors


"Josh Berkus" <> writes:

> All,
>
> Time for the annual update of this list:
>...
> Greg Stark, USA

I'm not sure what the countries are supposed to signify but that's neither the
country I hail from nor where I'm currently living.

--  Gregory Stark EnterpriseDB          http://www.enterprisedb.com Ask me about EnterpriseDB's PostGIS support!

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings


From:
Dave Page
Date:

Josh Berkus wrote:
> All,
> 
> Time for the annual update of this list:
> http://www.postgresql.org/developer/bios
> 
> Here's the list of people I gleaned from the release notes (btw, if people 
> have countries for the folks who aren't attributed, I'd appreciate them).  
> Of course, there are many contributors to essential non-core code who 
> should be listed as well:

Hiroshi Saito has made a number of smaller but important contributions
this cycle.

Heikki is from Finland, but currently living in the UK.

You also missed my name despite it being attributed to 3 items in the
release notes, but I don't suppose that matters as I'm in the core
section anyway.

/D


From:
Magnus Hagander
Date:

On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 04:08:36PM -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
> All,
> 
> Time for the annual update of this list:
> http://www.postgresql.org/developer/bios
> 
> Here's the list of people I gleaned from the release notes (btw, if people 
> have countries for the folks who aren't attributed, I'd appreciate them).  
> Of course, there are many contributors to essential non-core code who 
> should be listed as well:

The mentioned page has a split in "core", "major" and "other" developers.
The first part is easy, but a difference is needed between the other two I
think.

As for those we don't have info for, we could always email them and ask?
For major developers, we also list company name if they're working on
company time...

> Magnus Haeglander, Sweden

Cool new spelling. Maybe I should start using that one :-) Did you just
come up with it, or is that actually in some document somewhere?


//Magnus


From:
Stefan Kaltenbrunner
Date:

Dave Page wrote:
> Josh Berkus wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> Time for the annual update of this list:
>> http://www.postgresql.org/developer/bios
>>
>> Here's the list of people I gleaned from the release notes (btw, if people 
>> have countries for the folks who aren't attributed, I'd appreciate them).  
>> Of course, there are many contributors to essential non-core code who 
>> should be listed as well:
> 
> Hiroshi Saito has made a number of smaller but important contributions
> this cycle.
> 
> Heikki is from Finland, but currently living in the UK.
> 
> You also missed my name despite it being attributed to 3 items in the
> release notes, but I don't suppose that matters as I'm in the core
> section anyway.

yeah well - the release notes do not make that good a reference on the 
"who submitted patches" question anyway because the do not contain stuff 
that are mere compile failures or add support for additional 
platforms/cleanups) of new features (ie my patches to add GSSAPI support 
to OpenBSD/Solaris or things full text command/tabcomplete support in psql).
So in effect that list might more correctly be called a "feature 
contributor list"



Stefan


From:
Dave Page
Date:

Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote:
> yeah well - the release notes do not make that good a reference on the
> "who submitted patches" question anyway because the do not contain stuff
> that are mere compile failures or add support for additional
> platforms/cleanups) of new features (ie my patches to add GSSAPI support
> to OpenBSD/Solaris or things full text command/tabcomplete support in
> psql).
> So in effect that list might more correctly be called a "feature
> contributor list"

Agreed - and that's exactly why Hiroshi got left off I think. His work
included lots of testing and subsequent platform specific build fixes
and code cleanup/fixes.

I should also point out that the contributor list has always included
people who have contributed to non-core community projects in the past
as well - psqlODBC, the JDBC driver, pgInstaller, pgAccess, pgAdmin,
infrastructure/web etc.  so Josh's update should not necessarily remove
those people (though an argument could be made for giving those people
their own section).

/D


From:
Gregory Stark
Date:

"Gregory Stark" <> writes:

> "Josh Berkus" <> writes:
>
>> All,
>>
>> Time for the annual update of this list:
>>...
>> Greg Stark, USA
>
> I'm not sure what the countries are supposed to signify but that's neither the
> country I hail from nor where I'm currently living.

Sorry, forgot to say what to put instead. I'll go with "Canada" -- it's more
exotic :)

--  Gregory Stark EnterpriseDB          http://www.enterprisedb.com Get trained by Bruce Momjian - ask me about
EnterpriseDB'sPostgreSQL training!
 


From:
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:

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On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:46:36 +0000
Dave Page <> wrote:


> I should also point out that the contributor list has always included
> people who have contributed to non-core community projects in the past
> as well - psqlODBC, the JDBC driver, pgInstaller, pgAccess, pgAdmin,
> infrastructure/web etc.  so Josh's update should not necessarily
> remove those people (though an argument could be made for giving
> those people their own section).

This list seems to be oddly designed anyway. Who is a developer? Is a
developer different than a -hacker? 

Not to mention there don't seem to be any defined rules. I asked Berkus
and his reply was, "It has always been a little fuzzy". I asked Devrim
and he gave me 5 bullet points that don't quite make sense.

Further I think this list is in the wrong place. It is
under /developers which to mean is most intuitive to information "for"
developers not a listing of them.

I think the listing should probably go under about/contributors and
under contributors would be:
  Core <-- this is obvious  Committers <-- this is obvious the only question is it only
committers to the source tree or do we want to give equal billing to
the -www guys (I think yes to equal billing)  Members (really I think this should be contributors but then it is
duplicative)  Hacker Emeritus  Special Thanks (not sure about this, but basically this is "others")



Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


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     === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
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From:
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:

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On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:58:27 +0000
Gregory Stark <> wrote:

> "Gregory Stark" <> writes:
> 
> > "Josh Berkus" <> writes:
> >
> >> All,
> >>
> >> Time for the annual update of this list:
> >>...
> >> Greg Stark, USA
> >
> > I'm not sure what the countries are supposed to signify but that's
> > neither the country I hail from nor where I'm currently living.
> 
> Sorry, forgot to say what to put instead. I'll go with "Canada" --
> it's more exotic :)


I believe the list is where you are actually at. Aren't you in the UK
right now?

Joshua D. Drake 


- -- 
     === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564   24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
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From:
Dave Page
Date:

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Not to mention there don't seem to be any defined rules. I asked Berkus
> and his reply was, "It has always been a little fuzzy". I asked Devrim
> and he gave me 5 bullet points that don't quite make sense.

Not sure what Devrim is referring to, but most often in the past Rob (or
someone else) has proposed changes to -core which we've said yay or nay to.

> Further I think this list is in the wrong place. It is
> under /developers which to mean is most intuitive to information "for"
> developers not a listing of them.

Maybe. Where else would it go?

> I think the listing should probably go under about/contributors and
> under contributors would be:
> 
>    Core <-- this is obvious
>    Committers <-- this is obvious the only question is it only
> committers to the source tree or do we want to give equal billing to
> the -www guys (I think yes to equal billing)

Actually we've previously agreed (in -core) that we do not want to list
committers for various reasons. Yeah, I know the list isn't too hard to
figure out, but we don't want to advertise it.

>    Members (really I think this should be contributors but then it is
> duplicative)

Why not Hackers? Noone is a 'member' of anything except core or mayber
the web/infrastructure team.

/D


From:
Gregory Stark
Date:

"Joshua D. Drake" <> writes:

> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:58:27 +0000
> Gregory Stark <> wrote:
>
>> "Gregory Stark" <> writes:
>> 
>> > "Josh Berkus" <> writes:
>> >
>> >> All,
>> >>
>> >> Time for the annual update of this list:
>> >>...
>> >> Greg Stark, USA
>> >
>> > I'm not sure what the countries are supposed to signify but that's
>> > neither the country I hail from nor where I'm currently living.
>> 
>> Sorry, forgot to say what to put instead. I'll go with "Canada" --
>> it's more exotic :)
>
> I believe the list is where you are actually at. Aren't you in the UK
> right now?

Yep. That's fine with me too.

Perhaps it's even better if there's any thought of using this list to drive
the advocacy or user group efforts.

--  Gregory Stark EnterpriseDB          http://www.enterprisedb.com Ask me about EnterpriseDB's RemoteDBA services!


From:
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:

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On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:27:42 +0000
Dave Page <> wrote:

> Actually we've previously agreed (in -core) that we do not want to
> list committers for various reasons. Yeah, I know the list isn't too
> hard to figure out, but we don't want to advertise it.

Oh right, I actually recall that... 

> 
> >    Members (really I think this should be contributors but then it
> > is duplicative)
> 
> Why not Hackers? Noone is a 'member' of anything except core or mayber
> the web/infrastructure team.

Define Hacker. And I could argue that some are members of PGDG. What
about those who provide just as much time and energy in advocacy as
others do on -heackers? What about people that are working on external
projects only such as Slony or PLproxy?

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake



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     === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
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From:
Dave Page
Date:

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:27:42 +0000
> Dave Page <> wrote:
> 
>> Why not Hackers? Noone is a 'member' of anything except core or mayber
>> the web/infrastructure team.
> 
> Define Hacker. And I could argue that some are members of PGDG. 

Says he who only the other day muttered something about how PGDG wasn't
a defined entity :-)

> What
> about those who provide just as much time and energy in advocacy as
> others do on -heackers? What about people that are working on external
> projects only such as Slony or PLproxy?

The latter are still hackers using the definition we're likely to agree
on (ie. not a cracker). Both groups are 'Contributors' though. Maybe
just use 'Regular contributors' and 'Occasional contributors'. Or major
and minor. Or something entirely different.

/D


From:
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:

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On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:53:43 +0000
Dave Page <> wrote:

> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:27:42 +0000
> > Dave Page <> wrote:
> > 
> >> Why not Hackers? Noone is a 'member' of anything except core or
> >> mayber the web/infrastructure team.
> > 
> > Define Hacker. And I could argue that some are members of PGDG. 
> 
> Says he who only the other day muttered something about how PGDG
> wasn't a defined entity :-)

I believe the term was "legal" entity (If it wasn't that is what I
should of wrote). Which is true. We are however a "community".

> 
> > What
> > about those who provide just as much time and energy in advocacy as
> > others do on -heackers? What about people that are working on
> > external projects only such as Slony or PLproxy?
> 
> The latter are still hackers using the definition we're likely to
> agree on (ie. not a cracker). Both groups are 'Contributors' though.
> Maybe just use 'Regular contributors' and 'Occasional contributors'.
> Or major and minor. Or something entirely different.
> 

Now that seems reasonable. 

Core
Regular contributors
Occasional contributors
Past contributors

Core and Regular should be on the same page.
Occasional and Past on another? (At a minimum we can't have Past on
the same page it would get too large).

I don't like major and minor because a one line patch that saves
someone from loosing all there data is a major contribution but we may
never hear from the person again.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake




- -- 
     === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564   24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL solutions since 1997  http://www.commandprompt.com/        UNIQUE NOT NULL
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From:
Magnus Hagander
Date:

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:53:43 +0000
> Dave Page <> wrote:
> 
>> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 16:27:42 +0000
>>> Dave Page <> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why not Hackers? Noone is a 'member' of anything except core or
>>>> mayber the web/infrastructure team.
>>> Define Hacker. And I could argue that some are members of PGDG. 
>> Says he who only the other day muttered something about how PGDG
>> wasn't a defined entity :-)
> 
> I believe the term was "legal" entity (If it wasn't that is what I
> should of wrote). Which is true. We are however a "community".
> 
>>> What
>>> about those who provide just as much time and energy in advocacy as
>>> others do on -heackers? What about people that are working on
>>> external projects only such as Slony or PLproxy?
>> The latter are still hackers using the definition we're likely to
>> agree on (ie. not a cracker). Both groups are 'Contributors' though.
>> Maybe just use 'Regular contributors' and 'Occasional contributors'.
>> Or major and minor. Or something entirely different.
> 
> 
> Now that seems reasonable. 
> 
> Core
> Regular contributors
> Occasional contributors
> Past contributors
> 
> Core and Regular should be on the same page.
> Occasional and Past on another? (At a minimum we can't have Past on
> the same page it would get too large).

Man, I'm glad I DB:ified that page a couple of months back :-P

Do we really need separate pages, though? We already have the
distinction that major developers (in your case, that would be Regular
ones, I guess) are listed in full details, and other contributors are
just listed with name.

I still think we should keep "Hackers Emeritus" (you may rename it). The
people on that list are way more than just "past contributors" IMHO.


> I don't like major and minor because a one line patch that saves
> someone from loosing all there data is a major contribution but we may
> never hear from the person again.

We don't generally add anybody who just provides a single patch, ever.
They go in the release notes, but we only add people who've been around
for a while to this list at all. I think, at least, but as has already
been told there are no strict policies...

//Magnus



From:
Magnus Hagander
Date:

Kris Jurka wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Josh Berkus wrote:
> 
>> Kris Jurka, Finland
> 
> USA actually.

Where in the US? We generally list at least the state for ppl int he US
- most often both city+state. (shows up only for people listed as major
developers for the time being, which is why nobody asked for it before)

//Magnus


From:
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:

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On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 18:34:57 +0100
Magnus Hagander <> wrote:

> > Now that seems reasonable. 
> > 
> > Core
> > Regular contributors
> > Occasional contributors
> > Past contributors
> > 
> > Core and Regular should be on the same page.
> > Occasional and Past on another? (At a minimum we can't have Past on
> > the same page it would get too large).
> 
> Man, I'm glad I DB:ified that page a couple of months back :-P

Me too... I wasn't looking forward to writing the patch ;)

> 
> Do we really need separate pages, though? We already have the
> distinction that major developers (in your case, that would be Regular
> ones, I guess) are listed in full details, and other contributors are
> just listed with name.

I would be fine with that.

> 
> I still think we should keep "Hackers Emeritus" (you may rename it).
> The people on that list are way more than just "past contributors"
> IMHO.

*shrug* I don't really have a better name and I agree that we should
give props so...

Core
Regular contributors
Hackers Emeritus
Occasional contributors
Past contributors

???


> 
> 
> > I don't like major and minor because a one line patch that saves
> > someone from loosing all there data is a major contribution but we
> > may never hear from the person again.
> 
> We don't generally add anybody who just provides a single patch, ever.
> They go in the release notes, but we only add people who've been
> around for a while to this list at all. I think, at least, but as has
> already been told there are no strict policies...

Fair enough but I think the point is still relevant, in that we really
don't want to state specifically what a "Major" contributor is, I think
it opens us up to more bad mojo than just saying you are either a
regular contributor, or not :)

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


- -- 
     === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564   24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
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From:
Andrew Dunstan
Date:


Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>    Committers <-- this is obvious the only question is it only
> committers to the source tree or do we want to give equal billing to
> the -www guys (I think yes to equal billing)
>   
>   

I don't have a problem with that, but I think core code committers and 
www maintainers should be indentified separately. On a closely related 
note: last time I looked there was no way for anyone to discover on the 
web site who the committers actually are. That would also probably be 
useful.

cheers

andrew


From:
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:15:52 -0500
Andrew Dunstan <> wrote:

> 
> 
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> >    Committers <-- this is obvious the only question is it only
> > committers to the source tree or do we want to give equal billing to
> > the -www guys (I think yes to equal billing)
> >   
> >   
> 
> I don't have a problem with that, but I think core code committers
> and www maintainers should be indentified separately.

Why? Then we have to also separate advocacy which is just as important
and pgfoundry... as well as possibly a host of others. We all have our
job in the community :). 

> On a closely
> related note: last time I looked there was no way for anyone to
> discover on the web site who the committers actually are. That would
> also probably be useful.

See Dave's response about core not wanting committers that easily
identified. I actually recall this argument, basically there are times
when commit access might be revoked temporarily etc... IIRC..

Sincerely,

Joshua Drake


- -- 
     === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564   24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL solutions since 1997  http://www.commandprompt.com/        UNIQUE NOT NULL
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From:
"Kevin Grittner"
Date:

>>> On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 11:34 AM, in message <>,
Magnus Hagander <> wrote:
> We don't generally add anybody who just provides a single patch, ever.
> They go in the release notes, but we only add people who've been around
> for a while to this list at all.
I'm not sure what the point of the list is, but I had assumed that
one reason for publishing it was to show the scope of the community.
Wouldn't advocacy be better served by listing all the contributors,
even those who have contributed for the first time in that release?
Is there some risk there that I'm missing, a matter of the effort
to gather the information, or to avoid offending more regular
contributors?
-Kevin




From:
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:33:52 -0600
"Kevin Grittner" <> wrote:

> >>> On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 11:34 AM, in message
> >>> <>,
> Magnus Hagander <> wrote: 
>  
> > We don't generally add anybody who just provides a single patch,
> > ever. They go in the release notes, but we only add people who've
> > been around for a while to this list at all.
>  
> I'm not sure what the point of the list is, but I had assumed that
> one reason for publishing it was to show the scope of the community.
> Wouldn't advocacy be better served by listing all the contributors,
> even those who have contributed for the first time in that release?
>  
> Is there some risk there that I'm missing, a matter of the effort
> to gather the information, or to avoid offending more regular
> contributors?

Well to me, it is to acknowledge active community members which can be
used as a tool for advocacy.

A list that contains 3000 names does no one any good, we might as well
just dump the mailing list subscribers :). However a reasonably managed
list that shows strength in not only numbers but a solid base of
frequent contributors, show duration and maturity within the project.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


>  
> -Kevin
>  
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------(end of
> broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 7: You can help support the
> PostgreSQL project by donating at
> 
>                 http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
> 


- -- 
     === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564   24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL solutions since 1997  http://www.commandprompt.com/        UNIQUE NOT NULL
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From:
Andrew Dunstan
Date:


Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:15:52 -0500
> Andrew Dunstan <> wrote:
>
>   
>> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>     
>>>    Committers <-- this is obvious the only question is it only
>>> committers to the source tree or do we want to give equal billing to
>>> the -www guys (I think yes to equal billing)
>>>   
>>>   
>>>       
>> I don't have a problem with that, but I think core code committers
>> and www maintainers should be indentified separately.
>>     
>
> Why? Then we have to also separate advocacy which is just as important
> and pgfoundry... as well as possibly a host of others. We all have our
> job in the community :). 
>   


You are being overly sensitive. I never suggested otherwise. I simply 
suggested that the roles people do in fact play should be public.
>   
>> On a closely
>> related note: last time I looked there was no way for anyone to
>> discover on the web site who the committers actually are. That would
>> also probably be useful.
>>     
>
> See Dave's response about core not wanting committers that easily
> identified. I actually recall this argument, basically there are times
> when commit access might be revoked temporarily etc... IIRC..
>
>
>   

When I was made a committer, someone, I forget who, but I'm fairly sure 
it was some member of core, told me explicitly that it was intended to 
assist me professionally (and it has). That seems strangely at odds with 
a reluctance to publish the list of names of committers.

It's not something I care deeply about, but it seems more than strange 
given that the list of active committers at least is not too hard to 
discover.

cheers

andrew


From:
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:50:02 -0500
Andrew Dunstan <> wrote:

> You are being overly sensitive. I never suggested otherwise. I simply 
> suggested that the roles people do in fact play should be public.

And I was only pointing to a logistical problem with that thought
process. You are a hacker, you are also a pgfoundry admin and buildfarm
maintainer...

Which list would you like to be under?

Joshua D. Drake

P.S. I know that answer, that isn't the point.



- -- 
     === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564   24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL solutions since 1997  http://www.commandprompt.com/        UNIQUE NOT NULL
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From:
"Marc G. Fournier"
Date:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



- --On Wednesday, November 28, 2007 08:20:04 -0800 "Joshua D. Drake" 
<> wrote:

>    Core <-- this is obvious
>    Committers <-- this is obvious the only question is it only
> committers to the source tree or do we want to give equal billing to
> the -www guys (I think yes to equal billing)

Equal billing, but categorized ... for instance, Dave Page might be something 
like:

Dave Page (core, www) (where core reflects core server, not Core member)

>    Hacker Emeritus

Past contributions?  Most definitely ...

- ----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email .                               MSN . 
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664
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From:
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:06:58 -0400
"Marc G. Fournier" <> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> 
> - --On Wednesday, November 28, 2007 08:20:04 -0800 "Joshua D. Drake" 
> <> wrote:
> 
> >    Core <-- this is obvious
> >    Committers <-- this is obvious the only question is it only
> > committers to the source tree or do we want to give equal billing to
> > the -www guys (I think yes to equal billing)
> 
> Equal billing, but categorized ... for instance, Dave Page might be
> something like:
> 
> Dave Page (core, www) (where core reflects core server, not Core
> member)

I am trying to make an evolutionary step that will work within the
existing infrastructure. Based on Magnus's reply my solution requires
heading changes and moving names around without anything else.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

- -- 
     === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564   24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL solutions since 1997  http://www.commandprompt.com/        UNIQUE NOT NULL
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From:
Bruce Momjian
Date:

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > I don't have a problem with that, but I think core code committers
> > and www maintainers should be indentified separately.
> 
> Why? Then we have to also separate advocacy which is just as important
> and pgfoundry... as well as possibly a host of others. We all have our
> job in the community :). 
> 
> > On a closely
> > related note: last time I looked there was no way for anyone to
> > discover on the web site who the committers actually are. That would
> > also probably be useful.
> 
> See Dave's response about core not wanting committers that easily
> identified. I actually recall this argument, basically there are times
> when commit access might be revoked temporarily etc... IIRC..

I believe the reason we don't publicise who is a committer is that we
have non-committers who do a lot more for the project.  Commit rights
are usually given to people who do a lot of patches (perhaps small ones)
while people who develop larger patches are less likely to get commit
rights rapidly.

--  Bruce Momjian  <>        http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB
http://postgres.enterprisedb.com
 + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +


From:
Stefan Kaltenbrunner
Date:

Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> 
> 
> --On Wednesday, November 28, 2007 08:20:04 -0800 "Joshua D. Drake" 
> <> wrote:
> 
>>    Core <-- this is obvious
>>    Committers <-- this is obvious the only question is it only
>> committers to the source tree or do we want to give equal billing to
>> the -www guys (I think yes to equal billing)
> 
> Equal billing, but categorized ... for instance, Dave Page might be something 
> like:
> 
> Dave Page (core, www) (where core reflects core server, not Core member)

erm ? last i looked dave seemed to be a core member but not a (core)
commiter ? :-)


Stefan


From:
Bruce Momjian
Date:

Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > > I don't have a problem with that, but I think core code committers
> > > and www maintainers should be identified separately.
> > 
> > Why? Then we have to also separate advocacy which is just as important
> > and pgfoundry... as well as possibly a host of others. We all have our
> > job in the community :). 
> > 
> > > On a closely
> > > related note: last time I looked there was no way for anyone to
> > > discover on the web site who the committers actually are. That would
> > > also probably be useful.
> > 
> > See Dave's response about core not wanting committers that easily
> > identified. I actually recall this argument, basically there are times
> > when commit access might be revoked temporarily etc... IIRC..
> 
> I believe the reason we don't publicize who is a committer is that we
> have non-committers who do a lot more for the project.  Commit rights
> are usually given to people who do a lot of patches (perhaps small ones)
> while people who develop larger patches are less likely to get commit
> rights rapidly.

Of course the next question is why core is split out, especially since
core's role is mostly for confidential company contacts and discipline.

--  Bruce Momjian  <>        http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB
http://postgres.enterprisedb.com
 + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +


From:
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 14:16:16 -0500 (EST)
Bruce Momjian <> wrote:

> > I believe the reason we don't publicize who is a committer is that
> > we have non-committers who do a lot more for the project.  Commit
> > rights are usually given to people who do a lot of patches (perhaps
> > small ones) while people who develop larger patches are less likely
> > to get commit rights rapidly.
> 
> Of course the next question is why core is split out, especially since
> core's role is mostly for confidential company contacts and
> discipline.

*shrug* I have always considered core a steering committee type of
deal. Not "in charge" persay but there as a focal point when needed
(like the name change decision that was finally made).

It seems to me that it makes sense, based on that to break it out.

However there is another consideration in that at least two core
members seem to have zero interest in being involved in a very public
way like you suggest above. So perhaps it makes sense for core to be
inclusive of the list and instead push all "contacts" to a contacts
page.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


- -- 
     === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564   24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL solutions since 1997  http://www.commandprompt.com/        UNIQUE NOT NULL
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From:
Josh Berkus
Date:

Dave,

> Hiroshi Saito has made a number of smaller but important contributions
> this cycle.

Thanks.  I was being surprised to see only one Japanese contributor this 
cycle.

> Heikki is from Finland, but currently living in the UK.

Thanks!

> You also missed my name despite it being attributed to 3 items in the
> release notes, but I don't suppose that matters as I'm in the core
> section anyway.

Damn.  I think I kept skipping it because I thought I'd already put it in.  
I'll bet I missed another core member too.

-- 
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco


From:
Robert Treat
Date:

On Wednesday 28 November 2007 04:21, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 04:08:36PM -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > Time for the annual update of this list:
> > http://www.postgresql.org/developer/bios
> >
> > Here's the list of people I gleaned from the release notes (btw, if
> > people have countries for the folks who aren't attributed, I'd appreciate
> > them). Of course, there are many contributors to essential non-core code
> > who should be listed as well:
>
> The mentioned page has a split in "core", "major" and "other" developers.
> The first part is easy, but a difference is needed between the other two I
> think.
>

A major contributor is differentiated from other contributors based on 1) 
longevity in the community, 2) number of areas they work on, 3) signifigance 
of the contributions that have been made. 

To become an other contributor, you have to have contributed something of 
sginifcance to the community; this has typically meant some new feature for a 
release, but could also mean being a package maintainer for one of the open 
source platforms; it was something specific to the postgresql core project 
though; ie. something likely discussed on the postgresql mailing lists, or 
involving the central project. 

-- 
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL


From:
Kris Jurka
Date:

Magnus Hagander wrote:
> 
> Where in the US? We generally list at least the state for ppl int he US
> - most often both city+state. (shows up only for people listed as major
> developers for the time being, which is why nobody asked for it before)
> 

Denver, CO

Kris Jurka


From:
Magnus Hagander
Date:

On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 04:21:56PM -0700, Kris Jurka wrote:
> Magnus Hagander wrote:
> >
> >Where in the US? We generally list at least the state for ppl int he US
> >- most often both city+state. (shows up only for people listed as major
> >developers for the time being, which is why nobody asked for it before)
> >
> 
> Denver, CO

Ok, I've updated the current database. (It doesn't show where you're
listed, but it'll automatically get there if that's changed)

//Magnus


From:
NikhilS
Date:

Apologies, if some of you receive duplicates of this email. I am not subscribed to -www, so sending this to - hackers again.

> Hi,
>
> On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 11:44 +0530, Pavan Deolasee wrote:
>
>>         Nikhil S
>>
>> Nikhil is from India, EnterpriseDB.
>
> What is his surname? I think we need that for adding to web page.

Yes, agreed. We had someone else who wanted to be listed by alias some
time back (year+, don't remember whom it was) and that was turned down.

Agreed :), for the record, my name is "Nikhil Sontakke".

Regard,
Nikhils
--

EnterpriseDB               http://www.enterprisedb.com

From:
"FAST PostgreSQL"
Date:

Josh Berkus wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:" type="cite"><pre wrap="">Arul Shaji
</pre></blockquote>Sydney, Australia.<br /><br /> Rgds,<br /> Arul Shaji<br /><br />