Thread: Open Source CRM - Options?
Hi, I am working with a client (a media company) that is re-developing its web publishing system. I've already shortlisted potential CMS systems (including several open- source options, such as Drupal and Joomla). The brief requires a site that has sophisticated profiling capability, particularly with respect to the ability to 'personalise' the site; that is, recognise certain user preferences, and (where possible) target content to individual user interests etc. I am looking for examples of open-source CRM (or similar platforms) used for this kind of profiling/personalisation, and would appreciate any pointers readers of this newsgroup might be able to offer. Please reply directly to me at mark.neely@gmail.com Regards, Mark
At 10:18a -0400 on Tue, 27 May 2008, Mark Neely wrote: > The brief requires a site that has sophisticated profiling capability, > particularly with respect to the ability to 'personalise' the site; > that is, recognise certain user preferences, and (where possible) > target content to individual user interests etc. > > I am looking for examples of open-source CRM (or similar platforms) > used for this kind of profiling/personalisation, and would appreciate > any pointers readers of this newsgroup might be able to offer. It's not directly a CRM, but the Django web framework may be of interest to you. It's was developed at World Online (Lawrence, Kansas, USA), and is exceedingly stable. http://www.djangoproject.com/ For the list: it's community is ostensibly DB agnostic, but the big wigs seem to lean heavily towards Postgres. Kevin
> It's not directly a CRM, but the Django web framework may be of interest > to you. It's was developed at World Online (Lawrence, Kansas, USA), and > is exceedingly stable. http://www.djangoproject.com/ > > For the list: it's community is ostensibly DB agnostic, but the big wigs > seem to lean heavily towards Postgres. And its python :) Joshua D. Drake
At 12:58p -0400 on Tue, 27 May 2008, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> It's not directly a CRM, but the Django web framework may be of interest >> to you. It's was developed at World Online (Lawrence, Kansas, USA), and >> is exceedingly stable. http://www.djangoproject.com/ >> >> For the list: it's community is ostensibly DB agnostic, but the big wigs >> seem to lean heavily towards Postgres. > > And its python :) That's actually a bigger plus than folks may realize because all three communities (Django, Postgres, Python) share the "do-it-the-right-way,-not-just-the-quickest/easiest-way" mentality. (At least in my experience.) From an overall quality perspective, this is a huge win for all involved. And if you're developing, you will appreciate the chat rooms/mailing lists/community-in-general for all three for just this reason. Kevin
On 28/05/2008, Kevin Hunter <hunteke@earlham.edu> wrote: > > And its python :) > That's actually a bigger plus than folks may realize because all three > communities (Django, Postgres, Python) share the > "do-it-the-right-way,-not-just-the-quickest/easiest-way" mentality. (At > least in my experience.) From an overall quality perspective, this is a > huge win for all involved. And if you're developing, you will > appreciate the chat rooms/mailing lists/community-in-general for all > three for just this reason. How does Zope/Plone fit in there as an alternative in your opinion? :) > Kevin Cheers, Andrej -- Please don't top post, and don't use HTML e-Mail :} Make your quotes concise. http://www.american.edu/econ/notes/htmlmail.htm
On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 10:46 +1200, Andrej Ricnik-Bay wrote: > On 28/05/2008, Kevin Hunter <hunteke@earlham.edu> wrote: > > > And its python :) > > That's actually a bigger plus than folks may realize because all three > > communities (Django, Postgres, Python) share the > > "do-it-the-right-way,-not-just-the-quickest/easiest-way" mentality. (At > > least in my experience.) From an overall quality perspective, this is a > > huge win for all involved. And if you're developing, you will > > appreciate the chat rooms/mailing lists/community-in-general for all > > three for just this reason. > > How does Zope/Plone fit in there as an alternative in your opinion? :) > Do you really want the answer to that? :P Joshua D. Drake
On 28/05/2008, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > > How does Zope/Plone fit in there as an alternative in your opinion? :) > Do you really want the answer to that? :P Of course! I know a few people who swear by it (and I've never had to use it ...) -- Please don't top post, and don't use HTML e-Mail :} Make your quotes concise. http://www.american.edu/econ/notes/htmlmail.htm
At 6:46p -0400 on Tue, 27 May 2008, Andrej Ricnik-Bay wrote: > How does Zope/Plone fit in there as an alternative in your opinion? :) Heh, I can't honestly comment on Zope/Plone as I haven't used it from a developer or admin standpoint. The OP asked for a suggestion of a CRM or something similar and Django came to mind. Perhaps someone else can offer an opinion/anecdote on Zope/Plone? Josh perhaps, as his reply just came in. ;-) Kevin
I need to ask this question. What do you mean whan you say "Don't top post??? I've seen this many times before and still don't understand. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrej Ricnik-Bay" <andrej.groups@gmail.com> To: "Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com> Cc: "Kevin Hunter" <hunteke@earlham.edu>; "Mark Neely" <mark.neely@gmail.com>; "Postgres General List" <pgsql-general@postgresql.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Open Source CRM - Options? > On 28/05/2008, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: >> > How does Zope/Plone fit in there as an alternative in your opinion? :) > >> Do you really want the answer to that? :P > > Of course! I know a few people who swear by it (and I've never had > to use it ...) > > > > -- > Please don't top post, and don't use HTML e-Mail :} Make your quotes > concise. > > http://www.american.edu/econ/notes/htmlmail.htm > > -- > Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) > To make changes to your subscription: > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
> What do you mean whan you say "Don't top post??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style At the Datamail Group we value teamwork, respect, achievement, client focus, and courage. This email with any attachments is confidential and may be subject to legal privilege. If it is not intended for you please advise by replying immediately, destroy it and do not copy, disclose or use it in any way. The Datamail Group, through our GoGreen programme, is committed to environmental sustainability. Help us in our efforts by not printing this email. __________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the DMZGlobal Business Quality Electronic Messaging Suite. Please see http://www.dmzglobal.com/dmzmessaging.htm for details. __________________________________________________________________
>
> > What do you mean whan you say "Don't top post???
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
In-line comments are more readable, especially for longish emails. The PosgreSQL mail lists all prefer this method. Some related lists (the postGis list for instance) have a preponderance of top-quoting. It is always best to try to follow local style.
Greg Williamson
Senior DBA
DigitalGlobe
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> > What do you mean whan you say "Don't top post???
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style
On May 27, 2008, at 7:41 PM, Gregory Williamson wrote:In-line comments are more readable, especially for longish emails. The PosgreSQL mail lists all prefer this method. Some related lists (the postGis list for instance) have a preponderance of top-quoting. It is always best to try to follow local style.
But if you do bottom-post, please *do* edit the earlier content down to just the context of your comments. Otherwise readers can end up paging through lots of stuff before they get to the new bits. Archives are available for reference if necessary.
(Oh, and sometimes it's a good idea to change the subject line, too ... though I'm hardly innocent there ;-)
Cheers,
-- Andy
Andy Anderson <aanderson@amherst.edu> writes:
>> On May 27, 2008, at 7:41 PM, Gregory Williamson wrote:
>> In-line comments are more readable, especially for longish emails.
> But if you do bottom-post, please *do* edit the earlier content down
> to just the context of your comments. Otherwise readers can end up
> paging through lots of stuff before they get to the new bits. Archives
> are available for reference if necessary.
Indeed. Another little tip that some folk seem not to have figured out:
leave some white space between what you write and what you quote. The
posts that I hate even worse than top-posting are the ones where the
poster quotes the entire thread and inserts a line or two of comment
that isn't visibly separate from what's around it, like this:
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
comment added here
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
> blah blah blah
This is a truly outstanding way of ensuring that no one will read
what you wrote.
Bottom line: have some respect for your readers. Make it easy to
distinguish what you wrote from the preceding material, and remember
that the only reason you are quoting anything at all is to provide some
context for what you are saying. We don't need to re-read the entire
darn thread.
regards, tom lane
On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 10:46 +1200, Andrej Ricnik-Bay wrote: > On 28/05/2008, Kevin Hunter <hunteke@earlham.edu> wrote: > > > And its python :) > > That's actually a bigger plus than folks may realize because all three > > communities (Django, Postgres, Python) share the > > "do-it-the-right-way,-not-just-the-quickest/easiest-way" mentality. (At > > least in my experience.) From an overall quality perspective, this is a > > huge win for all involved. And if you're developing, you will > > appreciate the chat rooms/mailing lists/community-in-general for all > > three for just this reason. > > How does Zope/Plone fit in there as an alternative in your opinion? :) > I will offer my experience on this one. We were attempting to use Zope/Plone for the GNOME.Asia summit website. In short, it was a disaster for us. Starting with no experience in Plone the learning curve was very very high. I was able to make some initial theme changes, but when we started to add custom objects, new "page types" to display things like speaker profiles, abstracts, and adding new data to registered user objects the framework itself really got in the way. We spent some time with the Plone community but there were no clear answers on what the errors we were seeing actually meant, several times the answer was "Well, you have something wrong, but it looks like it should be working....". Setting up the development environment on each persons system was non trivial as well because the "preferred" method of using Plone/Zope is with a "buildout", which is basically a magical script which can download and set up everything. It sounds easy enough, but in practice it can turn ugly. They offer pre-established Plone/Zope tarballs, but when we used them and we had some issues trying to use some of the extra modules, the first answer was always "are you using a buildout, because then it would be easy for you". Judging by the questions that were being asked on the Plone mailing lists / IRC channel there are some things that need to be changed in the default Plone configuration. I saw "Why doesn't my Plone start" as many times as I have seen "Why is select count(*) from my_super_blog_awesomesauce; so SLOW!!!!!" on the Postgresql mailing list. The different being there were 10 different "common" answers for the not start question. Using version control on the customization "product" you create can be hard too, because even though you commit your code, and the other developers check it out, some of the changes your product make to Plone's layout and display cannot be reverted without essentially deleting and starting the database from scratch again. Not optimal. Oh, and to top it all off, it really wants to use ZODB for its datastore. Using an external data back-end is supported, but things can break unexpectedly. I will say that Zope/Plone has had a lot of time spent on it and the developers that know it very well can do some very interesting things with it pretty quickly. Django, much much easier learning curve. It just doesn't get in your way. Nice support for sqlite, postgresql, mysql. Django's ORM is very easy to understand. The template system syntax is very straightforward with excellent separation from the backend code. The web designer on the team knows no python at all and has been able to work on the templates with no problems. Time spent with Zope/Plone: 4 weeks Result: base plone installation has a new theme. website 15% complete. Eta completion: Infinity Time spent now with Django: 1 week 2 days. Result: Website 90% complete. Eta completion: 3 days. I have no desire for this to escalate into a Django vs Zope/Plone debate, so please no one turn it into one! I am sure that if we had known more Zope/Plone or had more time to learn and figure out how to do things in the "Plone way" we could have had more success with it. Sincerely, Will LaShell > > > Kevin > Cheers, > Andrej
Will LaShell wrote: > Time spent with Zope/Plone: 4 weeks Result: base plone installation has > a new theme. website 15% complete. Eta completion: Infinity > > Time spent now with Django: 1 week 2 days. Result: Website 90% > complete. Eta completion: 3 days. > > I have no desire for this to escalate into a Django vs Zope/Plone > debate, so please no one turn it into one! I am sure that if we had > known more Zope/Plone or had more time to learn and figure out how to do > things in the "Plone way" we could have had more success with it. I think it is important to realize that zope/plone really do serve different ideals of purpose. That being said, Django rocks. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake
Mark Neely wrote: >Hi, > >I am working with a client (a media company) that is re-developing its >web publishing system. > >I've already shortlisted potential CMS systems (including several open- >source options, such as Drupal and Joomla). > >The brief requires a site that has sophisticated profiling capability, >particularly with respect to the ability to 'personalise' the site; >that is, recognise certain user preferences, and (where possible) >target content to individual user interests etc. > >I am looking for examples of open-source CRM (or similar platforms) >used for this kind of profiling/personalisation, and would appreciate >any pointers readers of this newsgroup might be able to offer. > > > Hi, And what about RT (Request Tracker - http://bestpractical.com/rt/) . AFAIK it is free and open-source, uses Postgres and is easy to setup. Regards, Kaloyan Iliev >Please reply directly to me at mark.neely@gmail.com > >Regards, > >Mark > > >
What about SugarCRM? David
On May 28, 2008, at 8:52 AM, David Wall wrote: > What about SugarCRM? It's nice, but it's MySQL only, with a few desiccated corpses of ports to PostgreSQL done by third parties littered in it's wake. vTiger is a fork / knock-off of Sugar which has sorta-kinda support for PostgreSQL in older versions, but not in the current version. http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/VTigerCRM Cheers, Steve
kaloyan@digsys.bg (Kaloyan Iliev) writes: > And what about RT (Request Tracker - http://bestpractical.com/rt/) > . > AFAIK it is free and open-source, uses Postgres and is easy to setup. RT has a very different purpose; it was designed to track work (e.g. - "work tickets"), as opposed to managing web site content. It *might* be used as a bug tracker, though with a considerably different flavour from (say) Bugzilla; as a CRM, it would be pretty unsuitable :-(. -- output = reverse("moc.enworbbc" "@" "enworbbc") http://cbbrowne.com/info/lisp.html "Listen, strange women, lyin' in ponds, distributin' swords, is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives itself from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony." -- Monty Python and the Holy Grail
On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 09:20 -0700, Steve Atkins wrote: > On May 28, 2008, at 8:52 AM, David Wall wrote: > > > What about SugarCRM? > Drupal works fine with PostgreSQL :) Joshua D. Drake
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 4:18 AM, Mark Neely <mark.neely@gmail.com> wrote: > I've already shortlisted potential CMS systems (including several open- > source options, such as Drupal and Joomla). [snip...] > I am looking for examples of open-source CRM (or similar platforms) > used for this kind of profiling/personalisation, and would appreciate > any pointers readers of this newsgroup might be able to offer. I think the important question is whether the op means CMS or CRM (quite different). -- regards, Robin
"Tom Lane" <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> writes: > Bottom line: have some respect for your readers. Make it easy to > distinguish what you wrote from the preceding material, and remember > that the only reason you are quoting anything at all is to provide some > context for what you are saying. We don't need to re-read the entire > darn thread. I don't think the people who top-post or quote the entire message are doing it out of disrespect. They just have never been exposed to the traditional style. The main reason I posted this was to demonstrate that there's really no reason to quote the original message. My response was only to this one point and not the longer previous point. I actually think this is a more important point to get across than simply "don't top post" which just seems to generate lots of "bottom posts" that are just as bad. -- Gregory Stark EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com Ask me about EnterpriseDB's RemoteDBA services!
"Chris Browne" <cbbrowne@acm.org> writes: > RT has a very different purpose; it was designed to track work (e.g. - > "work tickets"), as opposed to managing web site content. > > It *might* be used as a bug tracker, though with a considerably > different flavour from (say) Bugzilla; as a CRM, it would be pretty > unsuitable :-(. FWIW I think you guys are using CRM to mean something very different from its usual meaning. A trouble ticket tracking system like RT is pretty much precisely what is normally referred to as a CRM. What you seem to be referring to is some subset of CMS, I don't know of any specific name for this kind of system. -- Gregory Stark EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com Ask me about EnterpriseDB's On-Demand Production Tuning
"Bob Pawley" <rjpawley@shaw.ca> writes: > The concept of most lists should be "the free exchange of ideas in the most > efficient manner possible". What is this in response to? -- Gregory Stark EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com Ask me about EnterpriseDB's RemoteDBA services!
IMHO and WADR I am on four different types of lists. When I am following a thread I very much appreciate those respondents who get their point across up front without making me wade through previous posts which I have already read. I can understand the concept of bottom posting as a means of easily generating digests. However, digests don't seem to be an issue on any of the lists to which I subscribe. The concept of most lists should be "the free exchange of ideas in the most efficient manner possible". Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Stark" <stark@enterprisedb.com> To: "Tom Lane" <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> Cc: "Andy Anderson" <aanderson@amherst.edu>; "Postgres General List" <pgsql-general@postgresql.org> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Bottom Posting > > "Tom Lane" <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> writes: > >> Bottom line: have some respect for your readers. Make it easy to >> distinguish what you wrote from the preceding material, and remember >> that the only reason you are quoting anything at all is to provide some >> context for what you are saying. We don't need to re-read the entire >> darn thread. > > I don't think the people who top-post or quote the entire message are > doing it > out of disrespect. They just have never been exposed to the traditional > style. > > The main reason I posted this was to demonstrate that there's really no > reason > to quote the original message. My response was only to this one point and > not > the longer previous point. I actually think this is a more important point > to > get across than simply "don't top post" which just seems to generate lots > of > "bottom posts" that are just as bad. > > -- > Gregory Stark > EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com > Ask me about EnterpriseDB's RemoteDBA services! > > -- > Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org) > To make changes to your subscription: > http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general
On 29/05/2008, Bob Pawley <rjpawley@shaw.ca> wrote: > ... get their point across up front without making me wade through > previous posts which I have already read. Good for you :} > I can understand the concept of bottom posting No one advocates bottom-posting here. It's all about intersparsed with relevant bits left standing. > The concept of most lists should be "the free exchange of ideas in the most > efficient manner possible". Which is per agreement on the list intersparsed. Which also allows people only just hopping onto the train of thought to get a good understanding of what a thread is about without having to read the lot top to bottom. May not match your individual preference, but then that's not what the list is about, either. > Bob Cheers, Andrej -- Please don't top post, and don't use HTML e-Mail :} Make your quotes concise. http://www.american.edu/econ/notes/htmlmail.htm
Andrej Ricnik-Bay wrote: > On 29/05/2008, Bob Pawley <rjpawley@shaw.ca> wrote: > > > ... get their point across up front without making me wade through > > previous posts which I have already read. > Good for you :} > > > I can understand the concept of bottom posting > No one advocates bottom-posting here. It's all about intersparsed > with relevant bits left standing. > > > > The concept of most lists should be "the free exchange of ideas in the most > > efficient manner possible". > Which is per agreement on the list intersparsed. Which also allows people > only just hopping onto the train of thought to get a good understanding > of what a thread is about without having to read the lot top to bottom. > May not match your individual preference, but then that's not what the > list is about, either. Don't forget adding a blank line between quoted text and your reply; that is helpful too. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +