Thread: postgresql 7.1
How far are we from seeing the version 7.1 out? -- "And I'm happy, because you make me feel good, about me." - Melvin Udall ----------------------------------------------------------------- Mart�n Marqu�s email: martin@math.unl.edu.ar Santa Fe - Argentina http://math.unl.edu.ar/~martin/ Administrador de sistemas en math.unl.edu.ar -----------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Martin A. Marques wrote: > How far are we from seeing the version 7.1 out? beta starts ~Nov 1st, release in January ...
What;s the new in Postgresql 7.1 ? Asidha Luhwidyanto "Martin A. Marques" wrote: > How far are we from seeing the version 7.1 out? > > -- > "And I'm happy, because you make me feel good, about me." - Melvin Udall > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Martín Marqués email: martin@math.unl.edu.ar > Santa Fe - Argentina http://math.unl.edu.ar/~martin/ > Administrador de sistemas en math.unl.edu.ar > -----------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Asidha Luhwidyanto wrote: > What;s the new in Postgresql 7.1 ? TOAST and WAL!!!! I think these are big changes that will make me think about postgresql as a big time competitor against the big commercial database engines. WAL is a backup system. TOAST is a system for working with rows that have to use more then the 8K limitation. AFAIK! -- "And I'm happy, because you make me feel good, about me." - Melvin Udall ----------------------------------------------------------------- Mart�n Marqu�s email: martin@math.unl.edu.ar Santa Fe - Argentina http://math.unl.edu.ar/~martin/ Administrador de sistemas en math.unl.edu.ar -----------------------------------------------------------------
* Martin A. Marques <martin@math.unl.edu.ar> [001011 19:10] wrote: > On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Asidha Luhwidyanto wrote: > > What;s the new in Postgresql 7.1 ? > > TOAST and WAL!!!! > > I think these are big changes that will make me think about postgresql as a > big time competitor against the big commercial database engines. > > WAL is a backup system. afaik WAL means the end of the dreaded 'vacuum', it allows the system to reuse free space without explicitly scanning the datafiles, it should also do it in a manner that still allows transactional dumping. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] "I have the heart of a child; I keep it in a jar on my desk."
At 11:04 PM 10/11/2000 -0300, Martin A. Marques wrote:
>On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Asidha Luhwidyanto wrote:
> > What;s the new in Postgresql 7.1 ?
>
>TOAST and WAL!!!!
>
>I think these are big changes that will make me think about postgresql as a
>big time competitor against the big commercial database engines.
>
>WAL is a backup system.
>TOAST is a system for working with rows that have to use more then the 8K
>limitation.
>AFAIK!
What happened to outer joins? Don't you need outer joins to compete with
the big boys?
----------------------------------------------
Tim Uckun
Mobile Intelligence Unit.
----------------------------------------------
"There are some who call me TIM?"
----------------------------------------------
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Tim Uckun wrote: > At 11:04 PM 10/11/2000 -0300, Martin A. Marques wrote: > >On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Asidha Luhwidyanto wrote: > > > What;s the new in Postgresql 7.1 ? > > > >TOAST and WAL!!!! > > > >I think these are big changes that will make me think about postgresql as a > >big time competitor against the big commercial database engines. > > > >WAL is a backup system. > >TOAST is a system for working with rows that have to use more then the 8K > >limitation. > >AFAIK! > > What happened to outer joins? Don't you need outer joins to compete with > the big boys? tom lane has been working aggressively on that :)
Tim Uckun <tim@diligence.com> writes:
> What happened to outer joins? Don't you need outer joins to compete with
> the big boys?
They're done too ;-)
regards, tom lane
At 01:37 AM 10/12/2000 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
>Tim Uckun <tim@diligence.com> writes:
> > What happened to outer joins? Don't you need outer joins to compete with
> > the big boys?
>
>They're done too ;-)
Wooo Hooo time to break out the champagne!
----------------------------------------------
Tim Uckun
Mobile Intelligence Unit.
----------------------------------------------
"There are some who call me TIM?"
----------------------------------------------
So a new version will be out soon. How often Bruce's book will be revised? With each new version? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Uckun" <tim@diligence.com> To: <pgsql-general@postgresql.org> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 5:43 AM Subject: Re: [GENERAL] postgresql 7.1 > At 01:37 AM 10/12/2000 -0400, Tom Lane wrote: > >Tim Uckun <tim@diligence.com> writes: > > > What happened to outer joins? Don't you need outer joins to compete with > > > the big boys? > > > >They're done too ;-) > > Wooo Hooo time to break out the champagne! > ---------------------------------------------- > Tim Uckun > Mobile Intelligence Unit. > ---------------------------------------------- > "There are some who call me TIM?" > ---------------------------------------------- >
Martin A. Marques writes: > How far are we from seeing the version 7.1 out? Beta is supposed to be November 1st. Personally, I'm putting my chips on a February 1st release. -- Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net http://yi.org/peter-e/
The Hermit Hacker writes: > > How far are we from seeing the version 7.1 out? > > beta starts ~Nov 1st, release in January ... Just wondering, WAL is going to be integrated when, and that gives how much time to test it before releasing the beta? -- Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net http://yi.org/peter-e/
[ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ] > So a new version will be out soon. How often Bruce's book will be revised? > With each new version? Good question. I know the initial printing run was reduced, perhaps so new editions could be made. I do the entire book here, and deliver camera-ready copy, so the process of generating a new edition is pretty easy. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
This sort of thing had crossed my mind because of sendmail (among many other
open source projects). Tring to get up to date info on running it (8.10
version) and the "BEST" book out there is 8.x version, which really is not
too relevant for 8.10 features.
Versioning changes often as well as new features and revisions of old ones.
Also, compilation issues always change from release to release. For a
publishing company it would be expensive to constantly put out a book for
each version that entails everything. Plus, consumers really don't want to
keep buying the same material over and over again.
For prohjects such as this that have commercial documentation, why don't
they have "patches" for printed books also?
Example, Software 1.0, author releases a full fledged book called Software
1.0 Bible. Contains compiling issues, how to use the software, etc. All
that you could want from a 40-60 dollar book. Software 1.1 is release 3
months later. After that author writes a short and concise book titled
Software Bible from 1.0 to 1.1. Doesn't cover the same info as 1.0 Bible.
Goes into as much detail as the first book did, but only involving new info
pertaining to 1.1 (and mayhaps a chapter on upgrading from 1.0 to 1.1). So
instead of another 400 page book, maybe it is only 100, depending on the new
feature set from version to version. Book assumes you HAVE read 1.0 Bible or
know enough about 1.0 where you don't need it.
Software keeps doing releases and the same production release for books
follows. After two years, Software 2.0 comes out (implying a significant
version difference from 1.0). A new book is written (re-written) and it
starts from scratch and called Software 2.0 Bible. Same book "patch"
schedule is followed as previously, etc.
It would be an interesting documentation project that would really keep
information organized and relatively accessible ('cause sometimes digging
through webpages and email groups is too time consuming).
Adam Lang
Systems Engineer
Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Momjian" <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us>
To: "Efrain Caro" <betsemes@hotmail.com>
Cc: <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] postgresql 7.1
> [ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ]
> > So a new version will be out soon. How often Bruce's book will be
revised?
> > With each new version?
>
> Good question. I know the initial printing run was reduced, perhaps so
> new editions could be made.
>
> I do the entire book here, and deliver camera-ready copy, so the process
> of generating a new edition is pretty easy.
>
> --
> Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
> pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
> + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
> + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
> >Versioning changes often as well as new features and revisions of old ones. >Also, compilation issues always change from release to release. For a >publishing company it would be expensive to constantly put out a book for >each version that entails everything. Plus, consumers really don't want to >keep buying the same material over and over again. For publishers new versions mean new profits so they would most likely just keep the status quo. >For prohjects such as this that have commercial documentation, why don't >they have "patches" for printed books also? Have the book in a three ring binder. With each version sell new "pages" or "chapters" or both. This way the user removes chapter X and reinserts the new updates chapter X. Here is another idea have the book in a CVS like software. This way just like software the documentation can be worked on by many people, some people have write access and get to approve and proofread before it gets posted. Everybody can just grab the latest snapshot of the doc. :wq Tim Uckun Due Diligence Inc. http://www.diligence.com/ Americas Background Investigation Expert. If your company isn't doing background checks, maybe you haven't considered the risks of a bad hire.
Not if it a new version is released every three to 6 months. If a new 40 dollar book came out every three months and a lot of the info is rehash of the previous 3 versions, then no, I wouldn't buy it on every release. But if every 3 to 6 months a 10 to 20 dollar "update" is sold, I would probably purchase that. As for the CVS like format, I don't see that as a publishable scheme. If 20 authors are contributing different levels of work, who is the publisher going to pay? Unless... a deal is made with the the publisher... the book is open source also, authors get nothing (except a name credit in the book) and the publisher prints and ships it.. only worrying about making profit off the distruiibution... not compensation for the authors. Might make the book cheaper also then. Adam Lang Systems Engineer Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Uckun" <tim@diligence.com> To: <pgsql-general@postgresql.org> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 12:07 PM Subject: Re: [GENERAL] postgresql 7.1 > > > > >Versioning changes often as well as new features and revisions of old ones. > >Also, compilation issues always change from release to release. For a > >publishing company it would be expensive to constantly put out a book for > >each version that entails everything. Plus, consumers really don't want to > >keep buying the same material over and over again. > > For publishers new versions mean new profits so they would most likely just > keep the status quo. > > >For prohjects such as this that have commercial documentation, why don't > >they have "patches" for printed books also? > > Have the book in a three ring binder. With each version sell new "pages" or > "chapters" or both. This way the user removes chapter X and reinserts the > new updates chapter X. > > Here is another idea have the book in a CVS like software. This way just > like software the documentation can be worked on by many people, some > people have write access and get to approve and proofread before it gets > posted. Everybody can just grab the latest snapshot of the doc. > > :wq > Tim Uckun > Due Diligence Inc. http://www.diligence.com/ Americas Background > Investigation Expert. > If your company isn't doing background checks, maybe you haven't considered > the risks of a bad hire.
Tim Uckun writes: > Here is another idea have the book in a CVS like software. This way just > like software the documentation can be worked on by many people, some > people have write access and get to approve and proofread before it gets > posted. Everybody can just grab the latest snapshot of the doc. We already have that. It's the documentation that gets shipped with PostgreSQL releases. I'd rather have people people contribute to that free source of documentation than wonder about when the book comes out. -- Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net http://yi.org/peter-e/
[ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ] > Not if it a new version is released every three to 6 months. If a new 40 > dollar book came out every three months and a lot of the info is rehash of > the previous 3 versions, then no, I wouldn't buy it on every release. But > if every 3 to 6 months a 10 to 20 dollar "update" is sold, I would probably > purchase that. I will be putting updates to the book on the book web site, so at least people who have bought the book can know what changed from release to release in relation to the book. After 18 months/2 years, another edition will probably be necessary. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
> Tim Uckun writes: > > > Here is another idea have the book in a CVS like software. This way just > > like software the documentation can be worked on by many people, some > > people have write access and get to approve and proofread before it gets > > posted. Everybody can just grab the latest snapshot of the doc. > > We already have that. It's the documentation that gets shipped with > PostgreSQL releases. I'd rather have people people contribute to that > free source of documentation than wonder about when the book comes out. Yes, my book is really just an overview of all the features and concepts. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
But there is a bit of a difference between a book, such as Bruce's, and the "manuals" such as the online documentation. For a published book on software to be successful, a lot of the print is used to explain the syntax and concepts and give examples. A lot of time manuals are too cold.. Good for reference, but not always good for reading. I never read any of the online doc from start to finish. I go to the points and read what I need to for the monument.. Bruce's I read from cover to cover, so to say. It could be just me, but the online docs are more references... books like Bruce's do more to teach. Adam Lang Systems Engineer Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Eisentraut" <peter_e@gmx.net> To: "Tim Uckun" <tim@diligence.com> Cc: <pgsql-general@postgresql.org> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [GENERAL] postgresql 7.1 > Tim Uckun writes: > > > Here is another idea have the book in a CVS like software. This way just > > like software the documentation can be worked on by many people, some > > people have write access and get to approve and proofread before it gets > > posted. Everybody can just grab the latest snapshot of the doc. > > We already have that. It's the documentation that gets shipped with > PostgreSQL releases. I'd rather have people people contribute to that > free source of documentation than wonder about when the book comes out. > > -- > Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net http://yi.org/peter-e/
Ah... you are already way ahead of us. :) Adam Lang Systems Engineer Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Momjian" <pgman@candle.pha.pa.us> To: "Adam Lang" <aalang@rutgersinsurance.com> Cc: "PGSQL General" <pgsql-general@postgresql.org> Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 12:40 PM Subject: Re: [GENERAL] postgresql 7.1 > [ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ] > > Not if it a new version is released every three to 6 months. If a new 40 > > dollar book came out every three months and a lot of the info is rehash of > > the previous 3 versions, then no, I wouldn't buy it on every release. But > > if every 3 to 6 months a 10 to 20 dollar "update" is sold, I would probably > > purchase that. > > I will be putting updates to the book on the book web site, so at least > people who have bought the book can know what changed from release to > release in relation to the book. After 18 months/2 years, another > edition will probably be necessary. > > -- > Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us > pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 > + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue > + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
> [ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ] > > Not if it a new version is released every three to 6 months. If a new 40 > > dollar book came out every three months and a lot of the info is rehash of > > the previous 3 versions, then no, I wouldn't buy it on every release. But > > if every 3 to 6 months a 10 to 20 dollar "update" is sold, I would probably > > purchase that. > > I will be putting updates to the book on the book web site, so at least > people who have bought the book can know what changed from release to > release in relation to the book. After 18 months/2 years, another > edition will probably be necessary. I realize I am saying two different things. One, I can generate camera-ready copy with updated manual pages and updated text quite easily for each release. Second, I was saying that the changes are minor for about 1-2 years, then it gets to be you have to add stuff all over the place. Not sure how this will play out in reality. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
[ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ] > But there is a bit of a difference between a book, such as Bruce's, and the > "manuals" such as the online documentation. For a published book on > software to be successful, a lot of the print is used to explain the syntax > and concepts and give examples. A lot of time manuals are too cold.. Good > for reference, but not always good for reading. I never read any of the > online doc from start to finish. I go to the points and read what I need to > for the monument.. Bruce's I read from cover to cover, so to say. > > It could be just me, but the online docs are more references... books like > Bruce's do more to teach. > Yes, and the good news is that this doesn't change too much from release to release. Features get added, and those have to be covered, perhaps in additional sections on my web site. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
>For prohjects such as this that have commercial documentation, why don't
>they have "patches" for printed books also?
...
>It would be an interesting documentation project that would really keep
>information organized and relatively accessible ('cause sometimes digging
>through webpages and email groups is too time consuming).
Police do this with their state codes. They order a new set of state codes
(perhaps once every 10 or 20 years, or when a new dept. is formed). Every
year they order updates to the state laws. Usually around 20-30 pages of
modified and new code for the officers to learn. Dang, that would be nice to
have for software, wouldn't it? :)
On the other hand, they could go the route of the Jargon File, another
web-and-print book. The print book is produced every few years, and the
online version is kept up to date. The print of Jargon is getting out of
date tho, so getting the publishers to print it relatively often would be
important too. At the very least, up-to-date CD-Rom's should be packaged - I
bought the Perl Resource Kit, and it had CD's that were 3 years old! What
use is Perl 4 to me in 1999?
Rob Nelson
rdnelson@co.centre.pa.us
That's sort of my point. A lot of people don't seem to take in account
that, like accountants and lawyers, etc., a certain amount of due care is
required and with all the stuff out there, it is hard to keep track of
version releases and new functionality. At least what Bruce is planning on
doing will make it easier to keep up to date without having to weed through
a whole new book and pick apart the new info and how to use it.
Open source is great and all, but soo many times it takes a long time to
find useful and relevant info.
Adam Lang
Systems Engineer
Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert D. Nelson" <RDNELSON@co.centre.pa.us>
To: "Adam Lang" <aalang@rutgersinsurance.com>
Cc: <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 3:10 PM
Subject: RE: [GENERAL] postgresql 7.1
> >For prohjects such as this that have commercial documentation, why don't
> >they have "patches" for printed books also?
> ...
> >It would be an interesting documentation project that would really keep
> >information organized and relatively accessible ('cause sometimes digging
> >through webpages and email groups is too time consuming).
>
> Police do this with their state codes. They order a new set of state codes
> (perhaps once every 10 or 20 years, or when a new dept. is formed). Every
> year they order updates to the state laws. Usually around 20-30 pages of
> modified and new code for the officers to learn. Dang, that would be nice
to
> have for software, wouldn't it? :)
>
> On the other hand, they could go the route of the Jargon File, another
> web-and-print book. The print book is produced every few years, and the
> online version is kept up to date. The print of Jargon is getting out of
> date tho, so getting the publishers to print it relatively often would be
> important too. At the very least, up-to-date CD-Rom's should be packaged -
I
> bought the Perl Resource Kit, and it had CD's that were 3 years old! What
> use is Perl 4 to me in 1999?
>
>
> Rob Nelson
> rdnelson@co.centre.pa.us
Regarding documentation updates...
Patch updates might work for a "small" quantity of documentation ("small"
in this context, meaning on order of Postgresql documentation), but I just
wanted to relate my experience on large documentation sources with these
types of patches (sort of funny in a sad way):
A few years ago, I was part of a National Guard Aviation Maintenance Unit
(charged with Hueys and Blackhawks) and would spend entire weekends doing
nothing other than hand-updating hundreds of rotary wing maintenance
manuals with patches. It was a _Really_ crappy method of updating a
documentation project of that scale. The worst part was that all patches
had to be applied from base documentation, and each patch would often
replace the same pages (we often had 20-30 _levels_ of patches on a given
document, each of 10-100 pages). Even if we wanted to order a new manual,
we'd often have to get an old base one and apply multiple patch levels,
which led to extreme inefficiency.
Just thought you might be interested in how this concept can quickly
unravel...:)
-Daniel
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 Tim Uckun <tim@diligence.com> wrote:
>For prohjects such as this that have commercial documentation, why don't
>they have "patches" for printed books also?
Have the book in a three ring binder. With each version sell new "pages"
or "chapters" or both. This way the user removes chapter X and reinserts
the new updates chapter X.
Here is another idea have the book in a CVS like software. This way just
like software the documentation can be worked on by many people, some
people have write access and get to approve and proofread before it gets
posted. Everybody can just grab the latest snapshot of the doc.
:wq
Tim Uckun
Due Diligence Inc. http://www.diligence.com/ Americas Background
Investigation Expert.
If your company isn't doing background checks, maybe you haven't
considered
the risks of a bad hire.