Thread: PostgreSQL Certified Engineer program ...

~
 on the hackers group I found a thread
~
 About PostgreSQL certification (Tue, 23 Jan 2007 05:52:35 -0800)
~
 (IMO quite elitist) and on the pgsql-advocacy I found just two messages
~
 LPI-Japan to start PostgreSQL certification  (Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011)
~
 transition SRA PostgreSQL CE -> LPI-JP OSS-DB lost English version
(Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 22:43:33 +0200)
~
 I also found some books (ALL IN JAPANESE!) to prepare for the exam at
~
 http://oss-db.jp/measures/learning.shtml
~
 I also pestered a bit the pgsql-general mailing list with no replies
~
 Maybe it is just a "cultural" thing. Why is it PostgreSQL CE hasn't
been happening?
~
 thanks
 lbrtchx

Albretch Mueller  wrote:

> Maybe it is just a "cultural" thing. Why is it PostgreSQL CE hasn't
> been happening?

If you're asking why the PostgreSQL Global Development Group, hasn't
set up a formal certification process, this might help:

http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/FAQ#Who_controls_PostgreSQL.3F

There's nothing to block any organization from offering classes or
their own certifications, but it seems unlikely to me that PGDG is
likely to endorse any particular certification.  It will be up to
those offering or acquiring the certification to demonstrate its
value.

Consider it a business opportunity if you like.  ;-)

-Kevin

> There's nothing to block any organization from offering classes or
> their own certifications, but it seems unlikely to me that PGDG is
> likely to endorse any particular certification.  It will be up to
> those offering or acquiring the certification to demonstrate its
> value.

As I understand it, EnterpriseDB is offering a certification.

--
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://pgexperts.com

On 04/16/2012 01:01 PM, Ashish Nauriyal wrote:
> Right ! Details are here:
> http://enterprisedb.com/products-services-training/certification/postgresql-associate-certification

I object to the wording of this page.  You are titling this "PostgreSQL
Certification".  It is not; it is properly described in later parts, as
"Postgres Plus® Certification".  It's completely reasonable for you to
offer a certification class to your database variation, which is fully
branded with its own registered trademark and everything.  If all use of
"PostgreSQL Certification" on this page were changed to "Postgres Plus®
Certification", I'd consider this a completely reasonable product offering.

The model where a vendor releasing a piece of software creates an
official certification program for that software is well accepted in the
industry.  But there is no vendor controlling the community PostgreSQL
releases, by design.  That means there's also no vendor to create,
grade, and certify exam procedures.  As it stands right now, you're
claiming to offer something--PostgreSQL certification--that does not exist.

--
Greg Smith   2ndQuadrant US    greg@2ndQuadrant.com   Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services, and 24x7 Support www.2ndQuadrant.com

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 4:38 AM, Greg Smith <greg@2ndquadrant.com> wrote:
> On 04/16/2012 01:01 PM, Ashish Nauriyal wrote:
>>
>> Right ! Details are here:
>>
>> http://enterprisedb.com/products-services-training/certification/postgresql-associate-certification
>
>
> I object to the wording of this page.  You are titling this "PostgreSQL
> Certification".  It is not; it is properly described in later parts, as
> "Postgres Plus® Certification".  It's completely reasonable for you to offer
> a certification class to your database variation, which is fully branded
> with its own registered trademark and everything.  If all use of "PostgreSQL
> Certification" on this page were changed to "Postgres Plus® Certification",
> I'd consider this a completely reasonable product offering.
>
> The model where a vendor releasing a piece of software creates an official
> certification program for that software is well accepted in the industry.
>  But there is no vendor controlling the community PostgreSQL releases, by
> design.  That means there's also no vendor to create, grade, and certify
> exam procedures.  As it stands right now, you're claiming to offer
> something--PostgreSQL certification--that does not exist.

Numerous vendors over the years have offered PostgreSQL
certifications, including (for example), SRA. The project has always
taken the stance that that is perfectly acceptable, and in fact
benefits the community when done properly.

FYI, when not talking about PPAS, Postgres Plus is the name we tend to
give standard PostgreSQL + various add-ons that we package, QA and
distribute, the majority of which are freely available (such as Slony,
PostGIS, pgBouncer, pgMemcache, various drivers and more).

--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

On 4/16/12 9:38 PM, Greg Smith wrote:
> The model where a vendor releasing a piece of software creates an
> official certification program for that software is well accepted in the
> industry.  But there is no vendor controlling the community PostgreSQL
> releases, by design.  That means there's also no vendor to create,
> grade, and certify exam procedures.  As it stands right now, you're
> claiming to offer something--PostgreSQL certification--that does not exist.

I don't think this is a reasonable stance to take in the absence of any
community-approved certification.  Certifications are a genuine need,
and if the community isn't going to fullfill them, we should at lease
encourage vendors to do so.

Maybe this is a business opportunity for 2Q, eh?

--
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL Experts Inc.
http://pgexperts.com

On 04/17/2012 01:02 PM, Josh Berkus wrote:
> I don't think this is a reasonable stance to take in the absence of any
> community-approved certification.  Certifications are a genuine need,
> and if the community isn't going to fullfill them, we should at lease
> encourage vendors to do so.

My point was just that such certifications should be clearly labeled as
being company created.  If you look at the Pearson site where SRA's
tests were offered, they were listed as "PostgreSQL CE (SRA OSS)
Certification Testing".  That was fine.

> Maybe this is a business opportunity for 2Q, eh?

2ndQuadrant will issue certificates for students who successfully
complete the workshop exercise challenges in our training classes.  But
we are very careful to call them 2ndQuadrant PostgreSQL Certificates.

--
Greg Smith   2ndQuadrant US    greg@2ndQuadrant.com   Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services, and 24x7 Support www.2ndQuadrant.com

SRA-OSS certification was taken over by LPIC Japan.  Now it is
labelled as "Open source database certificate" (sorry, I'm not sure
about official English label.  They're all in Japanese), which was
developed by many people from many organizations.   In fact, at
present, it is just PostgreSQL.

They publish textbook.   PDF version is free.   Several Japanese
companies provide a course for this certificate.   SRA-OSS is one of
them.   Because they're run by LPIC, it is regarded as neutral one.

I'm a little bit involved at very early stage.   I understand that
LPIC Japan began this certificate locally because the first needs will
be in Japan.   At present, almost all the materials and pages are in
Japanese but I think LPIC Japan can talk with people interested in
localizing/globalize the certificate.

Regards;
----------
Koichi Suzuki

2012年4月18日2:50 Greg Smith <greg@2ndquadrant.com>:
> On 04/17/2012 01:02 PM, Josh Berkus wrote:
>>
>> I don't think this is a reasonable stance to take in the absence of any
>> community-approved certification.  Certifications are a genuine need,
>> and if the community isn't going to fullfill them, we should at lease
>> encourage vendors to do so.
>
>
> My point was just that such certifications should be clearly labeled as
> being company created.  If you look at the Pearson site where SRA's tests
> were offered, they were listed as "PostgreSQL CE (SRA OSS) Certification
> Testing".  That was fine.
>
>
>> Maybe this is a business opportunity for 2Q, eh?
>
>
> 2ndQuadrant will issue certificates for students who successfully complete
> the workshop exercise challenges in our training classes.  But we are very
> careful to call them 2ndQuadrant PostgreSQL Certificates.
>
>
> --
> Greg Smith   2ndQuadrant US    greg@2ndQuadrant.com   Baltimore, MD
> PostgreSQL Training, Services, and 24x7 Support www.2ndQuadrant.com
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy

Am 17.04.2012 19:02, schrieb Josh Berkus:
> I don't think this is a reasonable stance to take in the absence of any
> community-approved certification.  Certifications are a genuine need,
> and if the community isn't going to fullfill them, we should at lease
> encourage vendors to do so.
>
> Maybe this is a business opportunity for 2Q, eh?
>

We discussed certification topic already more often inner the community
within the last decade. Honestly I am already tired to discuss it.

The result always was that making trainings and certifications is an
area with
which contributors can make money. Something with which they are able to
finance their hobby. Hobby named PostgreSQL contribution.

So yes - everybody - every company - is allowed to create their own
certifications.
Doesn't matter if EDB, 2ndQ, PgX or whoever else.

During my time at Sun we also worked on topic creating Sun PostgreSQL certs.
A Sun certification on topic PostgreSQL. Speaking in trees the root was
Sun certs.
The idea was that you could make different Sun certs e.g. for Solaris,
Java, PostgreSQL
and JavaDB.

My opinion is - when you have a certification program in your product
range then it should
not just be named "PostgreSQL Certification".

It should be clear given in the title that it isn't a community
certification. It should be
clear that it is one of the certifications of your company certification
program.

You should point out your company name in the title.
E.g. "2ndQuadrant Certification - PostgreSQL 9.1 Development" or
"EnterpriseDB PostgreSQL Certification"

It should be clear pointed out that it is a company certification on
topic xyz. That the
root is company-name certs.

Taking sales / marketing viewpoint:
Creating certification is a huge effort. It cost immense time and it is
really expensive.

Education is a local topic. Every country - every region has a different
way to educate
their kids. The way you learned to learn as kid is with which you feel
familiar when you
learn stuff as adult.

When you look into certs from big global companies - they are usually
based on US education.
Creating certs seems to be so expensive that not even these big
companies create
country / language based certifications. Usually the certs not even are
translated so that
foreigners not only have to deal with the technical stuff they also have
to deal with English.

What I could figure out in 2008 / 2009 (I am not sure if it is still up
to date):
Some companies even forbid that foreigners are allowed to use a
dictionary - because the
cert companies want extra money when you allow using a dictionary.

When you find a bug in your certs then the cert companies wants to get
extra money for the
update and so on.

Anyway - the costs to create and publish certs are enormous.
When you spend so much money and time into certs then you just want that
your company
name is on top in big letters. That your company will earn the honour.
I think this is something on which you don't want to share the honour
with the community.

When you created great certs then you want that the users say EDB or
2ndQ or whoever else
made great certs and you don't want that they just say Postgresql made
great certs.

Best Regards,

Susanne

--
Dipl. Inf. Susanne Ebrecht - 2ndQuadrant
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training and Services
www.2ndQuadrant.com