Thread: new elephant color

Blue is what people expect. I would be aghast if it were green or purple.

I and others have the exact pantone of the blue color if it is needed.

On Nov 17, 2009, at 5:01 PM, Guido Barosio wrote:

> I was wondering about the chances to democratically elect a new color for our Elephant.
>
> gb.-

elein
elein@varlena.com

On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 17:01 -0800, Guido Barosio wrote:
> I was wondering about the chances to democratically elect a new color
> for our Elephant.

I can't believe you just did that ;)
>
> gb.-


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On Tue, 17 Nov 2009, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 17:01 -0800, Guido Barosio wrote:
>> I was wondering about the chances to democratically elect a new color
>> for our Elephant.
>
> I can't believe you just did that ;)

I'm curious as to what the justification for such a dramatic change would
be ... does the blue offend someone, somewhere?  *Why* would we change it?

----
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2009/11/18 Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>:
> On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 17:01 -0800, Guido Barosio wrote:
>> I was wondering about the chances to democratically elect a new color
>> for our Elephant.
>
> I can't believe you just did that ;)
>>

Purple with a green trim.  And did we decide on the date we're
switching to the name "Postgre"?  I suggest they happen at the same
time. ;)

Thom

On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 17:01 -0800, Guido Barosio wrote:
> I was wondering about the chances to democratically elect a new color
> for our Elephant.

I can't believe you just did that ;)
>
> gb.-


--
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If the world pushes look it in the eye and GRR. Then push back harder. - Salamander

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 07:59:00AM +0000, Thom Brown wrote:
> 2009/11/18 Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com>:
> > On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 17:01 -0800, Guido Barosio wrote:
> >> I was wondering about the chances to democratically elect a new
> >> color for our Elephant.
> >
> > I can't believe you just did that ;)
>
> Purple with a green trim.   And did we decide on the date we're
> switching to the name "Postgre"?   I suggest they happen at the same
> time. ;)

Early in April, perhaps?

Cheers,
David.
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On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 01:24 -0800, David Fetter wrote:
> Early in April, perhaps?

Right, March 31st is a good time for that.
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Marc G. Fournier a écrit :
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 17:01 -0800, Guido Barosio wrote:
>>> I was wondering about the chances to democratically elect a new color
>>> for our Elephant.
>>
>> I can't believe you just did that ;)
>
> I'm curious as to what the justification for such a dramatic change
> would be ... does the blue offend someone, somewhere?  *Why* would we
> change it?
>

Perhaps because the large majority of corporate logo are blue. In
western country, that colour is associated with knowledge, power,
integrity, and seriousness. Altough these adjectives suit perfectly well
to PostgreSQL, i still think that blue is the sign of a terrible lack of
creativity and audacity. Two qualities of this project that we should
advertise more, imho.

Here's a picture of "The battle for blue" :
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/29/56867986_29aa1a3973_o.jpg

Anyway if we go down this road, why not getting rid of that elephant
head ? Picking an animal as a logo is very childish and uninventive,
even if the Open-Source world has a long history of stereotyped animal
mascots ( at least ubuntu is trying new species )

Most of all, blue elephant is probably one of the most common logo in
the world : PHP, the GOP, Carlsberg, etc. In France, we even have a
nation-wide carwash company called "Éléphant Bleu".

With all respect due to designer of the current PG logo, what i think
when i see it is : « Ten years ago, a bunch of database geeks we asked
for a logo, but they didn't have time for such futile work so they took
a blue elephant ». I'm not saying that's what happen, but it's what it
looks like.

In a nutshell, this blue elephant says "We suck at marketing" :D

If there's any chance of changing things, i'm volunteer to join a group
that would try propose new a design and color palette.

2009/11/18 damien clochard <damien@dalibo.info>:
> Marc G. Fournier a écrit :
>> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 17:01 -0800, Guido Barosio wrote:
>>>> I was wondering about the chances to democratically elect a new color
>>>> for our Elephant.
>>>
>>> I can't believe you just did that ;)
>>
>> I'm curious as to what the justification for such a dramatic change
>> would be ... does the blue offend someone, somewhere?  *Why* would we
>> change it?
>>
>
> Perhaps because the large majority of corporate logo are blue. In
> western country, that colour is associated with knowledge, power,
> integrity, and seriousness. Altough these adjectives suit perfectly well
> to PostgreSQL, i still think that blue is the sign of a terrible lack of
> creativity and audacity. Two qualities of this project that we should
> advertise more, imho.
>
> Here's a picture of "The battle for blue" :
> http://farm1.static.flickr.com/29/56867986_29aa1a3973_o.jpg
>
> Anyway if we go down this road, why not getting rid of that elephant
> head ? Picking an animal as a logo is very childish and uninventive,
> even if the Open-Source world has a long history of stereotyped animal
> mascots ( at least ubuntu is trying new species )
>
> Most of all, blue elephant is probably one of the most common logo in
> the world : PHP, the GOP, Carlsberg, etc. In France, we even have a
> nation-wide carwash company called "Éléphant Bleu".
>
> With all respect due to designer of the current PG logo, what i think
> when i see it is : « Ten years ago, a bunch of database geeks we asked
> for a logo, but they didn't have time for such futile work so they took
> a blue elephant ». I'm not saying that's what happen, but it's what it
> looks like.
>
> In a nutshell, this blue elephant says "We suck at marketing" :D
>
> If there's any chance of changing things, i'm volunteer to join a group
> that would try propose new a design and color palette.
>
> --
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>

Dark cyan and amber porpoise it is then.

On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:21 AM, damien clochard wrote:
> In a nutshell, this blue elephant says "We suck at marketing" :D

So, we have a logo whose color signifies "knowledge, power, integrity,
and seriousness," and a mascot whose association with data retention
is a basic part of Western culture (even non-programmers I talk to get
the "elephants never forget" association).  Given that, I'm still
trying to see what the problem with the current logo is. :)
--
-- Christophe Pettus
    xof@thebuild.com

Christophe Pettus a écrit :
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:21 AM, damien clochard wrote:
>> In a nutshell, this blue elephant says "We suck at marketing" :D
>
> So, we have a logo whose color signifies "knowledge, power, integrity,
> and seriousness," and a mascot whose association with data retention is
> a basic part of Western culture (even non-programmers I talk to get the
> "elephants never forget" association).

"elephants never forget" is an English idiom. As i said, we could be
more creative and bold. I even think we could go beyond that
western-centred frame of references, but i'm probably wrong.

Anyway as far as i know, the japanese community dropped the elephant
logo because it has other meanings over there. To avoid any
misunderstanding, they took a turtle instead.

Creating a new, non-mammal logo would re-unify the PostgreSQL branding
and get rid of further cultural interferences...

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 4:18 PM, damien clochard <damien@dalibo.info> wrote:
> Christophe Pettus a écrit :
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:21 AM, damien clochard wrote:
>>> In a nutshell, this blue elephant says "We suck at marketing" :D
>>
> Creating a new, non-mammal logo would re-unify the PostgreSQL branding
> and get rid of further cultural interferences...

Just to be clear, before this gets out of hand:

This thread was started as a joke following a comment on the -www
list. There is no intention to change either the logo image, or its
colour at this time.

Regarding the project name, please see
http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/ProjectName

--
Dave Page
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On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:18:23 +0100 damien clochard wrote:

> Christophe Pettus a écrit :
> >
> > On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:21 AM, damien clochard wrote:
> >> In a nutshell, this blue elephant says "We suck at marketing" :D
> >
> > So, we have a logo whose color signifies "knowledge, power, integrity,
> > and seriousness," and a mascot whose association with data retention is
> > a basic part of Western culture (even non-programmers I talk to get the
> > "elephants never forget" association).
>
> "elephants never forget" is an English idiom. As i said, we could be
> more creative and bold. I even think we could go beyond that
> western-centred frame of references, but i'm probably wrong.
>
> Anyway as far as i know, the japanese community dropped the elephant
> logo because it has other meanings over there. To avoid any
> misunderstanding, they took a turtle instead.

Beside the fact that this thread is a joke:

A turtle is usually slow (ok, not our two water turtles, but that's a
different thing) and i don't like the impression: PG = slow.



Bye

--
                Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum
German PostgreSQL User Group
European PostgreSQL User Group - Board of Directors
Volunteer Regional Contact, Germany - PostgreSQL Project

2009/11/18 Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum <adsmail@wars-nicht.de>:
> Beside the fact that this thread is a joke:
>
> A turtle is usually slow (ok, not our two water turtles, but that's a
> different thing) and i don't like the impression: PG = slow.
>

Yes, nothing like the rocket-fast elephant ;)

Out of curiousity, what connotations does an elephant have in Japanese culture?

Thom

Le mercredi 18 novembre 2009 à 17:52:44, Thom Brown a écrit :
> 2009/11/18 Andreas 'ads' Scherbaum <adsmail@wars-nicht.de>:
> > Beside the fact that this thread is a joke:
> >
> > A turtle is usually slow (ok, not our two water turtles, but that's a
> > different thing) and i don't like the impression: PG = slow.
>
> Yes, nothing like the rocket-fast elephant ;)
>
> Out of curiousity, what connotations does an elephant have in Japanese
>  culture?
>

Terrorism. A japanese religious group made a gas attack (sarin IIRC) in the
Tokyo subway in 1995. This group used a blue elephant as a logo. You can get
more informations from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo (but nothing
on their logo AFAICT).


--
Guillaume.
 http://www.postgresqlfr.org
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On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 4:18 PM, damien clochard <damien@dalibo.info> wrote:
>> Christophe Pettus a écrit :
>>>
>>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:21 AM, damien clochard wrote:
>>>> In a nutshell, this blue elephant says "We suck at marketing" :D
>>>
>> Creating a new, non-mammal logo would re-unify the PostgreSQL branding
>> and get rid of further cultural interferences...
>
> Just to be clear, before this gets out of hand:
>
> This thread was started as a joke following a comment on the -www
> list.

Too late now. It grew legs.
 :-)

Dave Page a écrit :
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 4:18 PM, damien clochard <damien@dalibo.info> wrote:
>> Christophe Pettus a écrit :
>>> On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:21 AM, damien clochard wrote:
>>>> In a nutshell, this blue elephant says "We suck at marketing" :D
>> Creating a new, non-mammal logo would re-unify the PostgreSQL branding
>> and get rid of further cultural interferences...
>
> Just to be clear, before this gets out of hand:
>
> This thread was started as a joke following a comment on the -www
> list. There is no intention to change either the logo image, or its
> colour at this time.
>

i'm reading psql-www too, so i was aware it was an ambush... but
honestly i cannot resist a good ol' fashioned flame war when i see one,
especially if it's about Our Beloved Logo.

Anyway i'm turning in my guns. For now. Be sure i'll be back, sooner or
later, ready to chop that elephant head off.

Sorry for the noise :)

--
damien

2009/11/19 damien clochard <damien@dalibo.info>:
> "elephants never forget" is an English idiom. As i said, we could be
> more creative and bold. I even think we could go beyond that
> western-centred frame of references, but i'm probably wrong.

Actually it's German as well "Ein Gedaechtnis wie ein Elefant". And in
Slovene, for that matter.  That makes three -admittedly European- cultures
to whom the elephant symbolises "long memory".

On Nov 18, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Andrej wrote:

> Actually it's German as well "Ein Gedaechtnis wie ein Elefant". And in
> Slovene, for that matter.  That makes three -admittedly European-
> cultures
> to whom the elephant symbolises "long memory".

I sense a t-shirt possibility...

--
-- Christophe Pettus
    xof@thebuild.com