Thread: Need for "Getting Started" Tutorial
FYI, I left ~250 copies of a 2 page PostgreSQL brochure at local LUG's booth at the IT360 show today. <http://www.it360.ca/> (This used to be the show known as RealWorldLinux.) I'll find out tomorrow how many copies survived, or if they went fast... I had several useful PostgreSQL conversations, including one which suggested that there may be another would-be "Pervasive" out there, that is, a company that would rather deploy PostgreSQL as their next product version rather than have to substantially rewrite their product to satisfy modern requirements. Don't know if that'll go anywhere; it will need some later followup. The *other* thing needing followup was that someone observed that they had some problems getting PostgreSQL to work properly, based on some of the "default" documentation. This probably represents the fact that different flavours of Linux behave a little bit differently, and when people are new to Unix, in general, they may not have sufficiently fine-tuned problem-solving skills to get past this "speed bump." Seems to me that there is a need for a "getting started with PostgreSQL on {flavours of Linux}" sort of tutorial. Those of us that build our own installs from scratch are probably incompetent to prepare this; we are *way* too knowledgeable to even notice the little speed-bumps that others are getting stuck on. This may well be a "recognize your Linux flavour" talk that applies to various services; that's fine... -- let name="cbbrowne" and tld="linuxfinances.info" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;; http://linuxdatabases.info/info/unix.html "A 'Cape Cod Salsa' just isn't right." -- Unknown
I share the same feeling. One of the misconceptions with PostgreSQL is that it is a very hard-to-install product, not user-friendly, especially for potential new users such as students. That is totally wrong and it is something that we must solve as community. During the next PGDay we will try and open PostgreSQL to these users and I believe such a tutorial is something that goes into the same direction. Tonight, Federico is going to start the Road To PGDay initiative in Prato (we invite other members all over the world to dedicate one event to PG promotion) and we have 25 subscribers! It's a great result, if you think that it is an after-dinner event - even though it is free. We could grab potential new users that are willing to share their 'install' experience with the rest of the world. What do you think guys? Ciao, Gabriele 2007/5/2, Chris Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org>: > FYI, I left ~250 copies of a 2 page PostgreSQL brochure at local LUG's > booth at the IT360 show today. <http://www.it360.ca/> (This used to > be the show known as RealWorldLinux.) > > I'll find out tomorrow how many copies survived, or if they went > fast... > > I had several useful PostgreSQL conversations, including one which > suggested that there may be another would-be "Pervasive" out there, > that is, a company that would rather deploy PostgreSQL as their next > product version rather than have to substantially rewrite their > product to satisfy modern requirements. Don't know if that'll go > anywhere; it will need some later followup. > > The *other* thing needing followup was that someone observed that they > had some problems getting PostgreSQL to work properly, based on some > of the "default" documentation. This probably represents the fact > that different flavours of Linux behave a little bit differently, and > when people are new to Unix, in general, they may not have > sufficiently fine-tuned problem-solving skills to get past this "speed > bump." > > Seems to me that there is a need for a "getting started with > PostgreSQL on {flavours of Linux}" sort of tutorial. > > Those of us that build our own installs from scratch are probably > incompetent to prepare this; we are *way* too knowledgeable to even > notice the little speed-bumps that others are getting stuck on. > > This may well be a "recognize your Linux flavour" talk that applies to > various services; that's fine... > -- > let name="cbbrowne" and tld="linuxfinances.info" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;; > http://linuxdatabases.info/info/unix.html > "A 'Cape Cod Salsa' just isn't right." -- Unknown > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate > subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your > message can get through to the mailing list cleanly >
On 5/2/07, Gabriele Bartolini <gabriele.bartolini@gmail.com> wrote: > I share the same feeling. One of the misconceptions with PostgreSQL is > that it is a very hard-to-install product, not user-friendly, > especially for potential new users such as students. That is totally > wrong and it is something that we must solve as community. It's All Relative as Einstein told us ;) If you compare the PostgreSQL installation with oracle's you discover that PostgreSQL is very simple ^_^ SNIP > Tonight, Federico is going to start the Road To PGDay initiative in > Prato (we invite other members all over the world to dedicate one > event to PG promotion) and we have 25 subscribers! It's a great > result, if you think that it is an after-dinner event - even though it > is free. I'm happily surprised about the results of PLUG's road2pgday. I'll try to do my best as PostgreSQL evangelist tonight :) After the road2pgday I'll upload the video of my talk on youtube. Regards Federico -- Federico Campoli is: @ PGDay -> Committee, http://www.pgday.it/ @ PLUG -> Consigliere, http://www.prato.linux.it PostgreSQL Consulting -> PGHost http://www.pghost.eu
Chris, I did a sidebar on "how to configure PostgreSQL" in an article I did for Linux Journal a while back. http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8085 This should be of some value, because I end up following those exact steps whenever I install a fresh copy somewhere. Based on your conversation, what additional information do you think is needed? Cheers, -Josh On Tue, 1 May 2007, Chris Browne wrote: > FYI, I left ~250 copies of a 2 page PostgreSQL brochure at local LUG's > booth at the IT360 show today. <http://www.it360.ca/> (This used to > be the show known as RealWorldLinux.) > > I'll find out tomorrow how many copies survived, or if they went > fast... > > I had several useful PostgreSQL conversations, including one which > suggested that there may be another would-be "Pervasive" out there, > that is, a company that would rather deploy PostgreSQL as their next > product version rather than have to substantially rewrite their > product to satisfy modern requirements. Don't know if that'll go > anywhere; it will need some later followup. > > The *other* thing needing followup was that someone observed that they > had some problems getting PostgreSQL to work properly, based on some > of the "default" documentation. This probably represents the fact > that different flavours of Linux behave a little bit differently, and > when people are new to Unix, in general, they may not have > sufficiently fine-tuned problem-solving skills to get past this "speed > bump." > > Seems to me that there is a need for a "getting started with > PostgreSQL on {flavours of Linux}" sort of tutorial. > > Those of us that build our own installs from scratch are probably > incompetent to prepare this; we are *way* too knowledgeable to even > notice the little speed-bumps that others are getting stuck on. > > This may well be a "recognize your Linux flavour" talk that applies to > various services; that's fine... > -- > let name="cbbrowne" and tld="linuxfinances.info" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;; > http://linuxdatabases.info/info/unix.html > "A 'Cape Cod Salsa' just isn't right." -- Unknown > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate > subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your > message can get through to the mailing list cleanly > >
rotellaro@gmail.com (Federico) writes: > On 5/2/07, Gabriele Bartolini <gabriele.bartolini@gmail.com> wrote: >> I share the same feeling. One of the misconceptions with PostgreSQL is >> that it is a very hard-to-install product, not user-friendly, >> especially for potential new users such as students. That is totally >> wrong and it is something that we must solve as community. > > It's All Relative as Einstein told us ;) > If you compare the PostgreSQL installation with oracle's you discover > that PostgreSQL is very simple ^_^ The newcomers that are getting turned off are not comparing PostgreSQL with Oracle; they are *vastly* more likely to be comparing with MySQL(tm)[1] or SQLite. Footnotes: [1] MySQL is a trademark of MySQL AB. -- (format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "acm.org") http://linuxdatabases.info/info/internet.html Should we throw another human wave of structural engineers at stabilizing the Leaning Tower of Pisa, or should we let the damn thing fall over and build a tower that doesn't suck? -- Neal Stephenson, In the Beginning Was the Command Line
On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 07:06:32PM -0400, Chris Browne wrote: > FYI, I left ~250 copies of a 2 page PostgreSQL brochure at local > LUG's booth at the IT360 show today. <http://www.it360.ca/> (This > used to be the show known as RealWorldLinux.) > > I'll find out tomorrow how many copies survived, or if they went > fast... How'd that go? > The *other* thing needing followup was that someone observed that > they had some problems getting PostgreSQL to work properly, based on > some of the "default" documentation. This probably represents the > fact that different flavours of Linux behave a little bit > differently, and when people are new to Unix, in general, they may > not have sufficiently fine-tuned problem-solving skills to get past > this "speed bump." > > Seems to me that there is a need for a "getting started with > PostgreSQL on {flavours of Linux}" sort of tutorial. Basically, such a tutorial would consist of, "familiarize yourself with your distribution's packaging and init systems, then use them to install and start PostgreSQL." > Those of us that build our own installs from scratch are probably > incompetent to prepare this; we are *way* too knowledgeable to even > notice the little speed-bumps that others are getting stuck on. The first speed bump after installation is PostgreSQL's very secure defaults in postgresql.conf and pg_hba.conf. The next one is frequently user management. After that, there's the fact that the rest of the defaults in postgresql.conf are still too conservative, and there is no automated way to get suggestions for what parameters to change and what to set them to based on, say, the amount of main memory in the machine. > This may well be a "recognize your Linux flavour" talk that applies to > various services; that's fine... Yep. Cheers, D -- David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/ phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666 Skype: davidfetter Remember to vote! Consider donating to PostgreSQL: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
Chris Browne wrote:
> rotellaro@gmail.com (Federico) writes:
>> On 5/2/07, Gabriele Bartolini <gabriele.bartolini@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I share the same feeling. One of the misconceptions with PostgreSQL is
>>> that it is a very hard-to-install product, not user-friendly,
>>> especially for potential new users such as students. That is totally
>>> wrong and it is something that we must solve as community.
>> It's All Relative as Einstein told us ;)
>> If you compare the PostgreSQL installation with oracle's you discover
>> that PostgreSQL is very simple ^_^
>
> The newcomers that are getting turned off are not comparing PostgreSQL
> with Oracle; they are *vastly* more likely to be comparing with
> MySQL(tm)[1] or SQLite.
Hmmm, that depends really. I rarely run into people wanting PostgreSQL
help that ran MySQL. I often run into people that want PostgreSQL help
that ran Oracle or MSSQL (oddly not much DB2).
I guess if you are talking about the standard php fan boy, maybe but
then again I have tried to install and start using MySQL on several
occasions and I found it completely opaque.
Of course I didn't bother reading the documentation either... Funny that.
Joshua D. Drake
>
> Footnotes:
> [1] MySQL is a trademark of MySQL AB.
--
=== The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
http://www.commandprompt.com/
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
PostgreSQL Replication: http://www.commandprompt.com/products/
> Hmmm, that depends really. I rarely run into people wanting PostgreSQL help
> that ran MySQL. I often run into people that want PostgreSQL help that ran
> Oracle or MSSQL (oddly not much DB2).
Ok, here's something I nabbed from one of my LJ articles. Still a little
rough around the edges but a good start:
Configuring PostgreSQL
In this document, I'll describe how to get Postgres up and running on Linux.
When you're done reading, you should have a Postgres server configured with
one login user and a database belonging to that user. (At this point, I'm
assuming that you've either compiled and installed from source or installed
from binary packages.)
Because of the different filesystem structures available to Unix and Linux
users, the first step you should perform after installation is determine
where Postgres lives. You can do this with a command like the following:
su -c "find / -name pg_hba.conf"
When the command stops running, make note of the result, which may look like:
/opt/pgsql/data/pg_hba.conf
As it is configured after a default installation, PostgreSQL authenticates
its users by checking their Linux identities. To create a more secure
application, you should change this to password authentication. The
following steps describe how to do so. Before you begin, change to the
directory you found above. This directory contains a number of files that
we'll have to edit.
First, modify the password of the database user postgres so that you can log
in when passwords are required:
1. At a command prompt, type su and enter your root password.
2. Then, type su postgres.
3. Now, start the psql monitor by typing psql template1.
4. We modify the password by typing alter user postgres with password 'pgUser89' or some other suitable
password.
5. Exit the monitor by typing \q and pressing Enter.
Now, change to the directory you found above. This directory contains a
number of files that we'll have to edit.
Second, modify the pg_hba.conf file so that the database accepts md5
passwords for all connections. By default, it's configured to authenticate
based on the identity of the current Linux account. This file has lines that
look like this:
# "local" is for Unix domain socket connections only
local all all trust
# IPv4 local connections:
host all all 127.0.0.1/32 md5
# IPv6 local connections:
host all all ::1/128 md5
To enable passwords, change the trust option on the line for local to md5
and save the file. Then, restart PostgreSQL. On a Red Hat-like system, this
can be done by issuing the command /sbin/service postgresql reload.
After this is done, users and databases can be created by using PostgreSQL's
built-in tools or by using third-party tools such as PgAdminIII. The
PostgreSQL Web site always is the best resource for more information on
these topics.
btw,
what if we'd have some video about real-time installation of PostgreSQL
under set of different OS ? xvidcap or some other tool could be used.
This video could be shown on conference as a station break on tv monitor.
On my Linux system, it takes several minutes to compile, install, initdb
and start postmaster.
On Wed, 2 May 2007, Federico wrote:
> On 5/2/07, Gabriele Bartolini <gabriele.bartolini@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I share the same feeling. One of the misconceptions with PostgreSQL is
>> that it is a very hard-to-install product, not user-friendly,
>> especially for potential new users such as students. That is totally
>> wrong and it is something that we must solve as community.
>
> It's All Relative as Einstein told us ;)
> If you compare the PostgreSQL installation with oracle's you discover
> that PostgreSQL is very simple ^_^
>
> SNIP
>
>> Tonight, Federico is going to start the Road To PGDay initiative in
>> Prato (we invite other members all over the world to dedicate one
>> event to PG promotion) and we have 25 subscribers! It's a great
>> result, if you think that it is an after-dinner event - even though it
>> is free.
>
> I'm happily surprised about the results of PLUG's road2pgday.
> I'll try to do my best as PostgreSQL evangelist tonight :)
>
> After the road2pgday I'll upload the video of my talk on youtube.
>
> Regards
> Federico
>
>
Regards,
Oleg
_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru),
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia
Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83
On Wed, May 02, 2007 at 02:39:58PM -0400, Joshua Kramer wrote:
>
> >Hmmm, that depends really. I rarely run into people wanting PostgreSQL
> >help that ran MySQL. I often run into people that want PostgreSQL help
> >that ran Oracle or MSSQL (oddly not much DB2).
>
> Ok, here's something I nabbed from one of my LJ articles. Still a little
> rough around the edges but a good start:
>
> Configuring PostgreSQL
>
> In this document, I'll describe how to get Postgres up and running on
> Linux. When you're done reading, you should have a Postgres server
> configured with
> one login user and a database belonging to that user. (At this point, I'm
> assuming that you've either compiled and installed from source or installed
> from binary packages.)
>
> Because of the different filesystem structures available to Unix and Linux
> users, the first step you should perform after installation is determine
> where Postgres lives. You can do this with a command like the following:
>
> su -c "find / -name pg_hba.conf"
You might try
su -c 'locate pg_hba.conf'
first.
> When the command stops running, make note of the result, which may look
> like:
>
> /opt/pgsql/data/pg_hba.conf
>
> As it is configured after a default installation, PostgreSQL authenticates
> its users by checking their Linux identities. To create a more secure
> application, you should change this to password authentication. The
> following steps describe how to do so. Before you begin, change to the
> directory you found above. This directory contains a number of files that
> we'll have to edit.
>
> First, modify the password of the database user postgres so that you can log
> in when passwords are required:
>
> 1. At a command prompt, type su and enter your root password.
> 2. Then, type su postgres.
That should read
su - postgres
in order to pick up environment settings, etc. Also note that on some
of the *BSDs, the user is called pgsql, not postgres.
> 3. Now, start the psql monitor by typing psql template1.
In modern versions of PostgreSQL, it's just psql
> 4. We modify the password by typing alter user postgres with
> password 'pgUser89' or some other suitable password.
That's probably not a good one, but choosing passwords is out of the
scope of this document. Maybe a reference on the trade-offs and some
of the tools involved?
> 5. Exit the monitor by typing \q and pressing Enter.
>
> Now, change to the directory you found above. This directory contains a
> number of files that we'll have to edit.
>
> Second, modify the pg_hba.conf file so that the database accepts md5
> passwords for all connections. By default, it's configured to authenticate
> based on the identity of the current Linux account. This file has lines that
> look like this:
>
> # "local" is for Unix domain socket connections only
> local all all trust
> # IPv4 local connections:
> host all all 127.0.0.1/32 md5
> # IPv6 local connections:
> host all all ::1/128 md5
>
> To enable passwords, change the trust option on the line for local to md5
> and save the file. Then, restart PostgreSQL. On a Red Hat-like system, this
> can be done by issuing the command /sbin/service postgresql reload.
>
> After this is done, users and databases can be created by using PostgreSQL's
> built-in tools or by using third-party tools such as PgAdminIII. The
> PostgreSQL Web site always is the best resource for more information on
> these topics.
It'd be good to mention <irc://irc.freenode.net/postgresql>
Cheers,
D
--
David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
phone: +1 415 235 3778 AIM: dfetter666
Skype: davidfetter
Remember to vote!
Consider donating to PostgreSQL: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate