Thread: Sun-Oracle lovefest: PostGreNeverMind
http://news.com.com/2100-1012-6025568.html "The bigger the machine, the cooler this gets," Sun CEO Scott McNealy said at a Sun-Oracle employee town hall meeting atOracle headquarters where the deal was announced. "We're going to effectively give you the Oracle database for free witha year of support with our new pricing model."
Ned Lilly wrote: > http://news.com.com/2100-1012-6025568.html > > "The bigger the machine, the cooler this gets," Sun CEO Scott McNealy > said at a Sun-Oracle employee town hall meeting at Oracle headquarters > where the deal was announced. "We're going to effectively give you the > Oracle database for free with a year of support with our new pricing > model." I don't read it as PostGreNeverMind. I read it as Oracle has more mindshare, marketshare and more money then PostgreSQL so it makes darn good business sense to have a partnership with Oracle as well. Sun is going to go where the money is. There is not a ton of money in PostgreSQL or MySQL (although a heck of a lot more in MySQL). Joshua D. Drake > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: PLphp, PLperl - http://www.commandprompt.com/
The free Oracle deal is limited to their high end Sparc servers, which (according to the article) are losing market share. It is not offered for their Opteron servers, which seem to be gaining share due to superior design. I think theseare mostly different markets. Oracle on the proprietary architecture servers, PostgreSQL on the commodity architectureservers. Seems a reasonable strategy to me. -----Original Message----- From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org]On Behalf Of Joshua D. Drake Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:00 AM To: Ned Lilly Cc: PostgreSQL Advocacy Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Sun-Oracle lovefest: PostGreNeverMind Ned Lilly wrote: > http://news.com.com/2100-1012-6025568.html > > "The bigger the machine, the cooler this gets," Sun CEO Scott McNealy > said at a Sun-Oracle employee town hall meeting at Oracle headquarters > where the deal was announced. "We're going to effectively give you the > Oracle database for free with a year of support with our new pricing > model." I don't read it as PostGreNeverMind. I read it as Oracle has more mindshare, marketshare and more money then PostgreSQL so it makes darn good business sense to have a partnership with Oracle as well. Sun is going to go where the money is. There is not a ton of money in PostgreSQL or MySQL (although a heck of a lot more in MySQL). Joshua D. Drake > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend -- The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting Co-Authors: PLphp, PLperl - http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Agreed, and I guess I should have included a winky face to show the teasing tone I intended. But it does underscore thebasic point that the longtime symbiosis between Oracle and Sun is still alive and well, and PostgreSQL community memberswho are hoping for huge contributions or corporate support from Sun might want to temper their expectations a bit. Cheers, Ned Lance Obermeyer wrote: > The free Oracle deal is limited to their high end Sparc servers, which (according to the article) are losing market share. It is not offered for their Opteron servers, which seem to be gaining share due to superior design. I think theseare mostly different markets. Oracle on the proprietary architecture servers, PostgreSQL on the commodity architectureservers. Seems a reasonable strategy to me. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org > [mailto:pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org]On Behalf Of Joshua D. Drake > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:00 AM > To: Ned Lilly > Cc: PostgreSQL Advocacy > Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Sun-Oracle lovefest: PostGreNeverMind > > > Ned Lilly wrote: > > >>http://news.com.com/2100-1012-6025568.html >> >>"The bigger the machine, the cooler this gets," Sun CEO Scott McNealy >>said at a Sun-Oracle employee town hall meeting at Oracle headquarters >>where the deal was announced. "We're going to effectively give you the >>Oracle database for free with a year of support with our new pricing >>model." > > > > I don't read it as PostGreNeverMind. I read it as Oracle has more > mindshare, marketshare and more money then PostgreSQL so it makes darn > good business > sense to have a partnership with Oracle as well. > > Sun is going to go where the money is. There is not a ton of money in > PostgreSQL or MySQL (although a heck of a lot more in MySQL). > > Joshua D. Drake > > >>---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- >>TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend > > > >
I don't know if it's still the case, but a few years ago an IBM hardware salesman I knew made many deals to get people running Oracle off of Sun hardware and onto an RS/6000. It was a very easy sell, because (at least for Oracle workloads) an equivalent RS/6000 machine would have half the CPUs of the Sparc machine. When you factored in the amount of money saved in Oracle licensing, the new IBM hardware paid for itself in 12 months. On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 10:09:02AM -0600, Lance Obermeyer wrote: > The free Oracle deal is limited to their high end Sparc servers, which (according to the article) are losing market share. It is not offered for their Opteron servers, which seem to be gaining share due to superior design. I think theseare mostly different markets. Oracle on the proprietary architecture servers, PostgreSQL on the commodity architectureservers. Seems a reasonable strategy to me. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org > [mailto:pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org]On Behalf Of Joshua D. Drake > Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:00 AM > To: Ned Lilly > Cc: PostgreSQL Advocacy > Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Sun-Oracle lovefest: PostGreNeverMind > > > Ned Lilly wrote: > > > http://news.com.com/2100-1012-6025568.html > > > > "The bigger the machine, the cooler this gets," Sun CEO Scott McNealy > > said at a Sun-Oracle employee town hall meeting at Oracle headquarters > > where the deal was announced. "We're going to effectively give you the > > Oracle database for free with a year of support with our new pricing > > model." > > > I don't read it as PostGreNeverMind. I read it as Oracle has more > mindshare, marketshare and more money then PostgreSQL so it makes darn > good business > sense to have a partnership with Oracle as well. > > Sun is going to go where the money is. There is not a ton of money in > PostgreSQL or MySQL (although a heck of a lot more in MySQL). > > Joshua D. Drake > > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > > TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend > > > > -- > The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564 > PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support > Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting > Co-Authors: PLphp, PLperl - http://www.commandprompt.com/ > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq > -- Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant jnasby@pervasive.com Pervasive Software http://pervasive.com work: 512-231-6117 vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf cell: 512-569-9461
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Ned Lilly wrote: > Agreed, and I guess I should have included a winky face to show the > teasing tone I intended. But it does underscore the basic point that > the longtime symbiosis between Oracle and Sun is still alive and well, > and PostgreSQL community members who are hoping for huge contributions > or corporate support from Sun might want to temper their expectations a > bit. they are doing not much different then all the other hardware companies out there, I dont'think ... 'hedging their bets', I believe is the right expression? They want all the market share, not *just* the PostgreSQL servers, or *just* the Oracle ones ... they want it all ... Personally, but providing their clients choices in direction that way, they are at least opening the door to their clients to choose other then Oracle ... "if you go with PostgreSQL, we won't leave you dangling", which tends to provide alot to an OSS project IMHO ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
LObermey@pervasive.com ("Lance Obermeyer") writes:
> The free Oracle deal is limited to their high end Sparc servers,
> which (according to the article) are losing market share. It is not
> offered for their Opteron servers, which seem to be gaining share
> due to superior design. I think these are mostly different markets.
> Oracle on the proprietary architecture servers, PostgreSQL on the
> commodity architecture servers. Seems a reasonable strategy to me.
It's hard to tell exactly what's what there; doubtless the high end
SPARC hardware is losing market share; on the other hand, Sun has only
just released the "exciting new" Niagara hardware, which is exactly
the sort of "hugely-multicore" hardware that fits into what the
article is talking about.
It seems to me that if Sun falls into being an Opteron vendor, they're
dead, because that puts them into a "commodity" market competing with
HP, Celestica, IBM, and such for sales of low end hardware that they
can't get good markup on.
Where PostgreSQL fits, in that, is enormously ambiguous :-).
This certainly seems to fit into the "Let's Make A Deal" category; if
someone has an interesting deal that might sell some Sun hardware, Sun
is unlikely to cast them from the door...
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Cut the knee-jerk reactions please... We are talking at the VERY high-end of things here and ONLY for Companies that have no problem spending millions on their IT hardware anyway... I dont view this as a "threat" to postgreSQL... This is a strategic alliance by Sun specifically to sell multi-processing servers.... Quoting directly from the article... "...Because Oracle license fees correspond to the number of processors a server has, Sun's subsidy can be significant on machines such as the E25K, which has as many as 72 dual-core processors. Singer said the Oracle license fee for such as system is $850,000..." On top of that... there is another paragraph that reads... "...The partnership is far from exclusive, however. Sun still includes other database software, including the open-source Derby, MySQL and PostgreSQL packages. "There's lots of choice," McNealy said..." "Ned Lilly" <ned@nedscape.com> wrote in message news:43C52484.5090608@nedscape.com... > http://news.com.com/2100-1012-6025568.html > > "The bigger the machine, the cooler this gets," Sun CEO Scott McNealy said > at a Sun-Oracle employee town hall meeting at Oracle headquarters where > the deal was announced. "We're going to effectively give you the Oracle > database for free with a year of support with our new pricing model." > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend >
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More cynically, what this means to me is that if I want a closer relationship with Oracle I should announce PostgreSQL support in my products. I can imagine the conversation going like this: Larry: Oooh, Linux has lots of buzz, let's use that. Scott: Hey, Larry, I thought we were best buddies. Larry: Yeah, but OS's are commodity '70s technology and free implementations are just about as good asthe expensive ones - so we don't need you. Scott: Hmm aren't databases are commodity '70s technology too? Sun Eng: Yes, Scott; and PostgreSQL is just about as good as the expensive ones. Scott: Hey Larry, guess what I found!!! Larry: Scott, we miss you, please come back. But the good news is that even if their PostgreSQL work was in part a message to Oracle that Sun has competitive alternatives at least for some applications - the good news is that PostgreSQL is indeed such a competitive alternative.