Thread: Re: dbus and GNOME 2.8
В Пнд, 05.04.2004, в 19:50, Rodrigo Moya пишет: > the problem with using RDBMS is that you impose on users the obligation > of having it installed before using the app. For some RDBMS (like > PostgreSQL, for instance) while not really hard for an advanced user, it > is quite hard for novice users to install it, setup initial permissions, > etc. And installing/running a RDBMS per user seems to not be a good > idea. PostgreSQL can easily be set up automatically by a software daemon of some sort, without manual intervention. -- Markus Bertheau <twanger@bluetwanger.de>
В Втр, 06.04.2004, в 02:03, Rodrigo Moya пишет: > On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 01:12 +0200, Markus Bertheau wrote: > > > > PostgreSQL can easily be set up automatically by a software daemon of > > some sort, without manual intervention. > > > yes, I know, but what if I add later on a user to the system? Giving > permissions to that user and create a database for it is not an easy > task for 'normal' desktop users. The daemon can handle that, too. -- Markus Bertheau <twanger@bluetwanger.de>
On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 01:12 +0200, Markus Bertheau wrote: > В Пнд, 05.04.2004, в 19:50, Rodrigo Moya пишет: > > the problem with using RDBMS is that you impose on users the obligation > > of having it installed before using the app. For some RDBMS (like > > PostgreSQL, for instance) while not really hard for an advanced user, it > > is quite hard for novice users to install it, setup initial permissions, > > etc. And installing/running a RDBMS per user seems to not be a good > > idea. > > PostgreSQL can easily be set up automatically by a software daemon of > some sort, without manual intervention. > yes, I know, but what if I add later on a user to the system? Giving permissions to that user and create a database for it is not an easy task for 'normal' desktop users. cheers
On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 08:28, Markus Bertheau wrote: > В Втр, 06.04.2004, в 02:03, Rodrigo Moya пишет: > > On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 01:12 +0200, Markus Bertheau wrote: > > > > > > PostgreSQL can easily be set up automatically by a software daemon of > > > some sort, without manual intervention. > > > > > yes, I know, but what if I add later on a user to the system? Giving > > permissions to that user and create a database for it is not an easy > > task for 'normal' desktop users. > > The daemon can handle that, too. Well firebird does not need any daemon even to run let alone setup. The Embedded Firebird version is just a shared library (no daemon needed). The embedded version is not network transparent and theres no security or need for users to be defined but that should be okay cause no one on the network can access it (so we dont need user/password security). In fact its so easy to use and install that the whole complaint about installation, setting up users and permissions is a complete non issue with embedded Firebird. The database files can sit in a user's home directories so the lack of security in the embedded version is also a non issue. It gets even better bacause the same database can be used with the network transparent client/server version if its needed (some users will want to access storage on remote machines via the network so its a nice to have this feature as optional even if it involves more configuration but certainly the embeddable version should be default for ease of use) Nobody wants to have a monster RDBMS like Oracle or Postgres on the desktop when a small and simple shared library would suffice. All versions of Firebird are self tuning and no DBA is required at all and thats what makes it such a great embeddable RDBMS. (Postgres is not self tuning AFAIK). jamie.
Database files, once they corrupt, you lose ALL data. Text files, once they are corrupt, cause you to lose only those settings. The FS is the IDEAL place to store preferences. You obviously need to choose the best FS. Obviously it makes NO sense to roam your preferences around without your homedir. It's like roaming your house without the furniture and appliances. El mar, 06-04-2004 a las 07:20, jamie escribió: > On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 08:28, Markus Bertheau wrote: > > В Втр, 06.04.2004, в 02:03, Rodrigo Moya пишет: > > > On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 01:12 +0200, Markus Bertheau wrote: > > > > > > > > PostgreSQL can easily be set up automatically by a software daemon of > > > > some sort, without manual intervention. > > > > > > > yes, I know, but what if I add later on a user to the system? Giving > > > permissions to that user and create a database for it is not an easy > > > task for 'normal' desktop users. > > > > The daemon can handle that, too. > > Well firebird does not need any daemon even to run let alone setup. > > The Embedded Firebird version is just a shared library (no daemon > needed). The embedded version is not network transparent and theres no > security or need for users to be defined but that should be okay cause > no one on the network can access it (so we dont need user/password > security). In fact its so easy to use and install that the whole > complaint about installation, setting up users and permissions is a > complete non issue with embedded Firebird. The database files can sit in > a user's home directories so the lack of security in the embedded > version is also a non issue. > > It gets even better bacause the same database can be used with the > network transparent client/server version if its needed (some users will > want to access storage on remote machines via the network so its a nice > to have this feature as optional even if it involves more configuration > but certainly the embeddable version should be default for ease of use) > > Nobody wants to have a monster RDBMS like Oracle or Postgres on the > desktop when a small and simple shared library would suffice. All > versions of Firebird are self tuning and no DBA is required at all and > thats what makes it such a great embeddable RDBMS. (Postgres is not self > tuning AFAIK). > > jamie. > > _______________________________________________ > desktop-devel-list mailing list > desktop-devel-list@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
The world rejoiced as amadorm@usm.edu.ec ("Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)") wrote:
> Database files, once they corrupt, you lose ALL data. Text files, once
> they are corrupt, cause you to lose only those settings.
Unless, of course, they are in XML form, in which case, if they are
corrupted, you lose everything because they can no longer be
validated.
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On Wednesday 07 April 2004 18:19, Christopher Browne wrote:
> The world rejoiced as amadorm@usm.edu.ec ("Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)") wrote:
> > Database files, once they corrupt, you lose ALL data. Text files, once
> > they are corrupt, cause you to lose only those settings.
>
> Unless, of course, they are in XML form, in which case, if they are
> corrupted, you lose everything because they can no longer be
> validated.
Unless you're using one of my hacked-together Perl scripts of course, in which
case you un-xml the file and then process it as text. And people say I don't
know how to adapt to new technologies ;-)
On a serious note, the Gnome discussion that leaked over here seemed to be
generating a lot of heat without much light. It seems unlikely that one size
will fit all when "all" runs from a palmtop through to an application server
supporting dozens of thin clients.
--
Richard Huxton
Archonet Ltd
Quoth dev@archonet.com (Richard Huxton):
> On Wednesday 07 April 2004 18:19, Christopher Browne wrote:
>> The world rejoiced as amadorm@usm.edu.ec ("Manuel Amador (Rudd-O)") wrote:
>> > Database files, once they corrupt, you lose ALL data. Text files, once
>> > they are corrupt, cause you to lose only those settings.
>>
>> Unless, of course, they are in XML form, in which case, if they are
>> corrupted, you lose everything because they can no longer be
>> validated.
>
> Unless you're using one of my hacked-together Perl scripts of
> course, in which case you un-xml the file and then process it as
> text. And people say I don't know how to adapt to new technologies
> ;-)
That sounds like it's roughly equivalent to running "strings" on a
borken database file.
I'm fairly serious, here; if an XML-based format actually expresses
any structuring of the data, then it is every bit as fragile as any
binary format.
> On a serious note, the Gnome discussion that leaked over here seemed
> to be generating a lot of heat without much light. It seems unlikely
> that one size will fit all when "all" runs from a palmtop through to
> an application server supporting dozens of thin clients.
If it is already known that one size will not fit all, then trying to
have Gnome be a system that "fits all" seems pretty silly.
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* Markus Bertheau <twanger@bluetwanger.de> wrote: <snip> > > yes, I know, but what if I add later on a user to the system? Giving > > permissions to that user and create a database for it is not an easy > > task for 'normal' desktop users. > > The daemon can handle that, too. You can also easily setup userland installations. (userland:=normal user) Both GNOME and KDE tend to start many userland deamons (i.e. for the virtual filesystem). Assuming normal workstations only have one concurrent desktop user, having another postmaster running shouldn't be such a mess. But for such use-cases you'll probably dont need many of pgsql's features, i.e. rules, triggers, stored procedures, etc, so a really lightweight RDBMS would probably perform better here. cu -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service phone: +49 36207 519931 www: http://www.metux.de/ fax: +49 36207 519932 email: contact@metux.de cellphone: +49 174 7066481 --------------------------------------------------------------------- -- DSL ab 0 Euro. -- statische IP -- UUCP -- Hosting -- Webshops -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------