Thread: attempt on website changes
Hi! I tried subscribing to pgsql-www and now am waiting for the approval. Judging by the speed at which the website is developed, I may have quite a wait ahead, besides very few people may actually read a well-hidden pgsql-www, so lets continue discussing here. I tried implementing the changes I proposed in this message: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2004-01/msg00161.php The result is available here: http://oc.cs.msu.su/stuff/PostgreSQL.html Of course, the layout may need some improvement, but this is just a "quick attempt". Besides, I couldn't find the source for the logo, so wasn't able to fix the horrible JPEG artifacts. Comments?
Dear Alexey Borzov > > I tried subscribing to pgsql-www and now am waiting for the approval. > Judging by the speed at which the website is I am also waiting for the approval > The result is available here: > http://oc.cs.msu.su/stuff/PostgreSQL.html Good now one can read the navigation bar in big letters How about a DHTML code for the menu with a drop down effect this way we would be able to add more in less space I am working on the dropdown menu and mail to this list very soon hope you will like it. Regards, Vishal Kashyap > >
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote: > Hi! > > I tried subscribing to pgsql-www and now am waiting for the approval. > Judging by the speed at which the website is developed, I may have quite > a wait ahead, besides very few people may actually read a well-hidden > pgsql-www, so lets continue discussing here. > > I tried implementing the changes I proposed in this message: > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2004-01/msg00161.php > > The result is available here: > http://oc.cs.msu.su/stuff/PostgreSQL.html Right off, don't like it ... find that I'm having problems focusing my eyes anywhere on it ... there is no "balance" to it :( but, then again, that just may be me ... > Of course, the layout may need some improvement, but this is just a > "quick attempt". Besides, I couldn't find the source for the logo, so > wasn't able to fix the horrible JPEG artifacts. There is a Tiff version of it floating around somewhere ... found it: http://www.pgsql.com/graphics/propaganda/elephant.tif ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
Quoting Sai Hertz And Control Systems <sank89@sancharnet.in>: > Dear Alexey Borzov > > > > > I tried subscribing to pgsql-www and now am waiting for the approval. > > Judging by the speed at which the website is > > I am also waiting for the approval > > > The result is available here: > > http://oc.cs.msu.su/stuff/PostgreSQL.html > > Good now one can read the navigation bar in big letters > How about a DHTML code for the menu with a drop down effect this way > we would be able to add more in less space > I am working on the dropdown menu and mail to this list very soon hope > you will like it. > > Regards, > Vishal Kashyap > > > > > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command > (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org) > FWIW... The font is bigger but I don't think that is the problem- its the color choices. White on that light blue is just not very readable. I would say a darker blue is needed or perhaps the text should be black. Just look at how the graphic with "PostgreSQL" stands on with that text being dark blue on that light blue. Also, based on a number of thread on general in the past, it seems like everything in the box that said websites gets missed or over looked (gborg, techdocs, etc). Is that something that could be moved to the top as a bar going across? The reason I say that is because 1) people don't like to scroll. 2) most of us read left to right so that psychology weights the left side text more than the right side. Another way to put that is to say that generally major menus are going to be on the right. 3) Describing the links before the person is actually on the page allows the person to make a decision about whether they want to click there or not. I submit that those links are major so ideally we want people at least view all the major links and start reading *after* they are on that page (or site as the case is with techdocs and gborg). -- Keith C. Perry, MS E.E. Director of Networks & Applications VCSN, Inc. http://vcsn.com ____________________________________ This email account is being host by: VCSN, Inc : http://vcsn.com
On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 11:08, Sai Hertz And Control Systems wrote: > Dear Alexey Borzov > > > > > I tried subscribing to pgsql-www and now am waiting for the approval. > > Judging by the speed at which the website is > > I am also waiting for the approval > > > The result is available here: > > http://oc.cs.msu.su/stuff/PostgreSQL.html > > Good now one can read the navigation bar in big letters > How about a DHTML code for the menu with a drop down effect this way > we would be able to add more in less space > I am working on the dropdown menu and mail to this list very soon hope > you will like it. > You are both putting the cart before the horse. Go read the archives and you'll find that we already have several new design floating around for the site.... The primary goal of the site right now is to get Andreas translation code working so we can start using that, then implement a new design that works with that. At a minimum before any significant redesign we need to modify the existing pages to work from central defined layout functions rather than using hardcoded html like so many of the pages do now. (Incidentally I did start coding this up awhile back, but did not implement it due to the groups desire to get Andreas code done). Also this conversation is fairly off-topic for this group, and more importantly having the discussion here excludes several people who should be included in it. Robert Treat -- Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
>> The result is available here: >> http://oc.cs.msu.su/stuff/PostgreSQL.html > > Right off, don't like it ... find that I'm having problems focusing my > eyes anywhere on it ... there is no "balance" to it :( but, then > again, > that just may be me ... Ugh, I have to concur: it just hurts my eyes looking at this page. Indeed it isn't balanced: there are large colored blocks on the right and nothing on the left. Nice try, but I think we're not quite there yet :-) Cheers. --------------- Francois Home page: http://www.monpetitcoin.com/ "Would Descartes have programmed in Pascal?" - Umberto Eco
On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 21:38:17 +0530, Sai Hertz And Control Systems <sank89@sancharnet.in> wrote: > Good now one can read the navigation bar in big letters > How about a DHTML code for the menu with a drop down effect this way > we would be able to add more in less space > I am working on the dropdown menu and mail to this list very soon hope > you will like it. Please don't break the web site for people who aren't using Javascript. If you can do this kind of thing with stylesheets, that would be fine.
On Tuesday 13 January 2004 16:09, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Alexey Borzov wrote: > > I tried implementing the changes I proposed in this message: > > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2004-01/msg00161.php > > > > The result is available here: > > http://oc.cs.msu.su/stuff/PostgreSQL.html > > Right off, don't like it ... find that I'm having problems focusing my > eyes anywhere on it ... there is no "balance" to it :( but, then again, > that just may be me ... My tuppence-worth: 1. It doesn't work with a narrow browser width - you don't know the right-hand panels are there. Perhaps just move them to the left-hand side. 2. More space between elements - I think this will help with the focus. 3. I like the larger links at the top - I can actually read them now. -- Richard Huxton Archonet Ltd
>>Hi! >> >>I tried subscribing to pgsql-www and now am waiting for the approval. >>Judging by the speed at which the website is developed, I may have quite >>a wait ahead, besides very few people may actually read a well-hidden >>pgsql-www, so lets continue discussing here. >> >>I tried implementing the changes I proposed in this message: >>http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2004-01/msg00161.php >> >>The result is available here: >>http://oc.cs.msu.su/stuff/PostgreSQL.html >> >> > >Right off, don't like it ... find that I'm having problems focusing my >eyes anywhere on it ... there is no "balance" to it :( but, then again, >that just may be me ... > > > I don't think it is "just" you but I like it. Alot. It is miles above the existing design in terms of ease on the eyes and finding what is important. But could we please get some color in there? We have zero contrasting color which I think lends to Marc's issue with balance and focus. If you look at other professional sites such as Mozilla, RedHat or even MySQL... There are some opposing colors to make things easier to see. Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake -- Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting. +1-503-667-4564 - jd@commandprompt.com - http://www.commandprompt.com Mammoth PostgreSQL Replicator. Integrated Replication for PostgreSQL
Dear Robert Treat , >You are both putting the cart before the horse. Go read the archives and >you'll find that we already have several new design floating around for >the site.... > Oops! this does not sound good I am steping back as I belive their are already real genius people working on it. >Also this conversation is fairly off-topic for this group, and more >importantly having the discussion here excludes several people who >should be included in it. > > So what do you suggest ? Regards Vishal Kashyap.
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Sai Hertz And Control Systems wrote: > So what do you suggest ? First, start off by a review of the pgsql-www archives to see what has been previously hashed out by that team ... last thing you want to do is recreate a wheel :) ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 12:41, Sai Hertz And Control Systems wrote:
> >Also this conversation is fairly off-topic for this group, and more
> >importantly having the discussion here excludes several people who
> >should be included in it.
> >
> >
> So what do you suggest ?
>
you both have signed up for pgsql-www right? once your approved take it
up over there.
Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
Greetings! Robert Treat wrote: > You are both putting the cart before the horse. Go read the archives and > you'll find that we already have several new design floating around for > the site.... You are completely missing the point here. I am not proposing a new design as a) postgresql.org does not have "a design" now. Whatever it has, should be called by a different (4-letter probably) word. b) I am not a designer, I am PHP programmer, with some Open Source projects too (http://pear.php.net/user/avb). What I proposed were the simple --- I prototyped them in an hour's work --- usability improvements. > The primary goal of the site right now is to get Andreas > translation code working so we can start using that, then implement a > new design that works with that. Is it the stuff within the 'portal' dir, with the last commit 2 months ago? > At a minimum before any significant > redesign we need to modify the existing pages to work from central > defined layout functions rather than using hardcoded html like so many > of the pages do now. (Incidentally I did start coding this up awhile > back, but did not implement it due to the groups desire to get Andreas > code done). I looked at the current code, "messy" is the most polite word I have for this. Nonetheless, my experience tells me that moving common HTML to header and footer files will take, like, 2 hours at most. Including a tea-break. I *may* have volunteered for this, but after this discussion have a feeling that outside contributions are NOT welcome. Fine with me, and probably fine with the community? > Also this conversation is fairly off-topic for this group, and more > importantly having the discussion here excludes several people who > should be included in it. Are these the same people who have to approve my subscription to pgsql-www?..
> >
> I don't think it is "just" you but I like it. Alot. It is miles above
> the existing design
> in terms of ease on the eyes and finding what is important.
>
My first reaction was that I liked it a lot also. The fonts are all the
right size for one thing (which for me needs to be big, because I run at
1280x1024, and I have bad eyesight), and that's a great improvement for
me. The previous design didn't seem to work as well with my font size
increasing browser setting.
I think it may be just right if you had a column on the left side also.
That would bring the news items to the center more, and that helps with
the focus issue. Maybe even have a second set of navigation on the left,
since most people going to the site are interested in a specific thing,
e.g. downloading the software, and not as interested in following the
news (which is the logical front page content).
Regards,
Jeff Davis
On Tue, 2004-01-13 at 17:24, Alexey Borzov wrote:
> What I proposed were the simple --- I prototyped them in an hour's work ---
> usability improvements.
>
ISTM you've missed the point. It's simple to say "make the fonts bigger
on the header page". It's also simple to mock up a page to make the
header links bigger. But what isn't simple is actually pushing that out
to all of the pages, mainly due to legacy architectural issues. The
latter is where we need the help, not the former.
> > The primary goal of the site right now is to get Andreas
> > translation code working so we can start using that, then implement a
> > new design that works with that.
>
> Is it the stuff within the 'portal' dir, with the last commit 2 months ago?
Andreas code is in the portal directory. the current website code is in
the www directory.
>
> > At a minimum before any significant
> > redesign we need to modify the existing pages to work from central
> > defined layout functions rather than using hardcoded html like so many
> > of the pages do now. (Incidentally I did start coding this up awhile
> > back, but did not implement it due to the groups desire to get Andreas
> > code done).
>
> I looked at the current code, "messy" is the most polite word I have for this.
> Nonetheless, my experience tells me that moving common HTML to header and footer
> files will take, like, 2 hours at most. Including a tea-break.
>
> I *may* have volunteered for this, but after this discussion have a feeling that
> outside contributions are NOT welcome. Fine with me, and probably fine with the
> community?
>
contributions are welcome, but they need to actually be things that
help. busting out one-off page designs isn't terribly helpful. If you
can get the kinks worked out with Andreas code I'll commit your patches
myself. Heck you'd probably get commit rights to CVS yourself, but I'm
not sure why you expect everyone to kow-tow to you when you haven't
presented us with anything of substance, especially given the extremely
adversarial tone you've taken.
> > Also this conversation is fairly off-topic for this group, and more
> > importantly having the discussion here excludes several people who
> > should be included in it.
>
> Are these the same people who have to approve my subscription to pgsql-www?..
>
some of them, among others.
Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
Hello Robert Treat ann Alexey Borzov , >>I *may* have volunteered for this, but after this discussion have a feeling that >>outside contributions are NOT welcome. Fine with me, and probably fine with the >>community? >> >ontributions are welcome, but they need to actually be things that >help. busting out one-off page designs isn't terribly helpful. If you >can get the kinks worked out with Andreas code I'll commit your patches >myself. Heck you'd probably get commit rights to CVS yourself, but I'm >not sure why you expect everyone to kow-tow to you when you haven't >presented us with anything of substance, especially given the extremely >adversarial tone you've taken. > > Hey!! snap of you guys Robert is correct in his place just building and showing of the frontpage will not accomplish the work a real real good stuff is needed to do that and its very helpful for the comunity that Alexey has taken the initiative at this point. Robert you also must have respected the work done by Alexey. Yes I know what Alexey has build as frontpage is not immediatly acceptable but we will have to start at some point . So lets do workable constructive criticisam rather than bashing. Hope this will move some work on the website front. Regards Vishal Kashyap.
Hello Robert Treat , I just checked out the portal code but could not find the DB schema for portal Would be greateful if you provide us the same such that I carry on the development on my system and later submit the code. Regards, Vishal Kashyap
Hi! First of all, I fully understand that this discussion is OT here. If you want to move it to pgsql-www, then approve my subscription to it... Robert Treat wrote: >>What I proposed were the simple --- I prototyped them in an hour's work --- >>usability improvements. > > ISTM you've missed the point. It's simple to say "make the fonts bigger > on the header page". It's also simple to mock up a page to make the > header links bigger. But what isn't simple is actually pushing that out > to all of the pages, mainly due to legacy architectural issues. The > latter is where we need the help, not the former. OK then. I'll checkout the pgweb code and move all common HTML to header and footer files. I'll send the patch directly to you. I don't see how moving all the common HTML code may interfere with adding whatever translation code, so I guess these are two separate tasks. When the HTML is duplicated no more, I'll propose a patch along the lines of the mock-up I posted. > contributions are welcome, but they need to actually be things that > help. busting out one-off page designs isn't terribly helpful. If you > can get the kinks worked out with Andreas code I'll commit your patches > myself. Are these "kinks" documented anywhere? > Heck you'd probably get commit rights to CVS yourself, but I'm > not sure why you expect everyone to kow-tow to you when you haven't > presented us with anything of substance, especially given the extremely > adversarial tone you've taken. Sorry, but my tone worked wonders. When people (me included) just posted suggestions, they were safely and comfortably ignored. As soon as I used the appropriate tone, I got most of the anwers I needed... I also understand the meritocratic nature of OS development, so will now just shut up and do the patch I mentioned.