Re: PostgreSQL Advocacy, Thoughts and Comments - Mailing list pgsql-general

HI All,

I'm glad that this thread prompted some thoughtful response.   I think
one of my main points I was trying to make, Jason hit the nail on the
head.  The article to which I was referring uses a great example which I
have experienced many times before, but in order to grasp this, PHP et
al, must be thought of as a scripting language which crosses many
corporate boundries, and it is easy to assume that it's primary use
(simple web site back ends) are the only thing to discuss.  But the
situation has changed enourmously since the release of PHP v4.  Now many
consultant/developer/sys-admins like myself are going to client site on
a contract (this is especially true in the UK, I can't speak for
anywhere else) and finding complex stocktrading systems, inventory
systems, CRM systems, and others, all written in PHP backed by MySQL.
Whether this is right or wrong, good choice or bad choice is not what
I'm interested in debating.   The point is that when these systems where
architected, the developers used MySQL not because they were dumb, but
because many of them develop awesome code and can get around most
problems in the code, with a little ingenuity.  Many simply do not have
the insight into the potential benefits of *proper* RDBMS can offer.
Had they had the benefit of such knowledge the code they have written
would be faster (in DB) and more legible. Sadly often the developers are
the only source of DBA for some of these companies.

The second scenario, is with admin systems, written by people like
myself for companies, whether they be simple or complex systems, that
are intended as a temporary work around to an immediate problem.
In a very short space of time the stop-gap application you had written
to sort out the immediate problem quickly becomes a core business
application (I recently returned to a site after not being there for two
years and the temporary address book/ email system that I knocked up in
an afternoon was not only still being used, but now relied upon heavily).

So on to my point, MySQL guys will happily say "Hey, we're not saying
that the features MySQL is missing aren't important, and we're working
towards them, but in the meantime these issues can be worked around like
this....."  and happily play the whole thing down.  Many LAMP developers
aren't aware of the benefits of stored procedures, of triggers and other
good stuff. Like myself, if they were aware how much easier life could
be if these things were accessible to them, they'd probably be converts too.

There is not enough emphasis put on the basic importance of these
functions in PG.  Someone needs to standup and say "Hey, look how this
can simplify your programming lives"  until I started using
Druid/Postgres, I had no idea why I needed triggers or what a cascade
effect did, or why I might want one.

The Linux  community has grown  at least in part because it has
educated  potential users and journo's to its benefits.  I believe if
the PG advocacy team did the same, then it would attract many more
serious LAMP developers.

Like Linux vs. Windows, PG has an awful lot going for it in respect to
MySQL, so why not crow about it.  It needs to be pointed at a crowd that
are DB novices, they need to be told why PG is worth the time/knowledge
investment, because anyone who reads the MySQL site, will come away with
the impression that the Trigger, Stored Procs, and other things are a
luxurious overhead not necessary for getting the job done.

I'd gladly help out with such a paper, but find myself in the sad
position of my prose being open to attack due to my newbieness in the DB
world and not able to speak authoratatively on the subject.

Have a think, I'd like to know if others agree.

Cheers

T.