Thread: Re: pgsql: Generate backup manifests for base backups, and validatethem.

Re: pgsql: Generate backup manifests for base backups, and validatethem.

From
Peter Eisentraut
Date:
On 2020-04-03 21:07, Robert Haas wrote:
> A new tool called pg_validatebackup can validate a backup against the
> manifest.

In software engineering, "verify" and "validate" have standardized 
distinct meanings.  I'm not going to try to explain them here, but you 
can easily find them online.  I haven't formed an opinion on which one 
of them this tool is doing, but I notice that both the man page and the 
messages produced by the tool use the two terms seemingly 
interchangeably.  We should try to pick the correct term and use it 
consistently.

-- 
Peter Eisentraut              http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services



Re: pgsql: Generate backup manifests for base backups, and validate them.

From
Robert Haas
Date:
On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 5:51 AM Peter Eisentraut
<peter.eisentraut@2ndquadrant.com> wrote:
> On 2020-04-03 21:07, Robert Haas wrote:
> > A new tool called pg_validatebackup can validate a backup against the
> > manifest.
>
> In software engineering, "verify" and "validate" have standardized
> distinct meanings.  I'm not going to try to explain them here, but you
> can easily find them online.  I haven't formed an opinion on which one
> of them this tool is doing, but I notice that both the man page and the
> messages produced by the tool use the two terms seemingly
> interchangeably.  We should try to pick the correct term and use it
> consistently.

The tool is trying to make sure that we have the same backup that
we're supposed to have, and that the associated WAL is present and
sane. Looking at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verification_and_validation, that sounds
more like verification than validation, but I confess that this
distinction is new to me.

-- 
Robert Haas
EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company



Re: pgsql: Generate backup manifests for base backups, and validatethem.

From
David Steele
Date:
On 4/7/20 12:44 PM, Robert Haas wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 5:51 AM Peter Eisentraut
> <peter.eisentraut@2ndquadrant.com> wrote:
>> On 2020-04-03 21:07, Robert Haas wrote:
>>> A new tool called pg_validatebackup can validate a backup against the
>>> manifest.
>>
>> In software engineering, "verify" and "validate" have standardized
>> distinct meanings.  I'm not going to try to explain them here, but you
>> can easily find them online.  I haven't formed an opinion on which one
>> of them this tool is doing, but I notice that both the man page and the
>> messages produced by the tool use the two terms seemingly
>> interchangeably.  We should try to pick the correct term and use it
>> consistently.
> 
> The tool is trying to make sure that we have the same backup that
> we're supposed to have, and that the associated WAL is present and
> sane. Looking at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verification_and_validation, that sounds
> more like verification than validation, but I confess that this
> distinction is new to me.

When I searched I found a two different definitions for validation and 
verification. One for software development (as in the link above and 
what I think Peter meant) and another for data (see 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_validation, 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_verification, 
https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-data-validation-and-vs-data-verification/)

It seems that validation vs. verify as defined in PMBOK (the former 
sense) does not really apply here, though. That leaves only the latter 
sense which appears less well-documented but points to "verify" as the 
better option.

Regards,
-- 
-David
david@pgmasters.net