Thread: List removals
Greetings all, Now that the migration to pglister is well on its way, I think it's past time to start thinking about the lists that we *aren't* going to migrate (and, instead, will let die off when mj2 goes away). First off, let's discuss the lists which have not had even one email in the past year (excluding PUGs): pgsql-benchmarks | Discussion of PostgreSQL and benchmarks. pgsql-chat | General chit-chat. pgsql-cygwin | Former discussion of PostgreSQL under cygwin. pgsql-hackers-pitr | Former discussion related to the PITR feature. pgsql-hackers-win32 | Former discussion of issues relating to Win32 pgsql-it-generale | Italian Developer Community General Discussions pgsql-nl-algemeen | Dutch PostgreSQL Community pgsql-patches | Obsolete list for posting patches to the PostgreSQL pgsql-ports | Former discussion about porting PostgreSQL pgsql-rrreviewers | Round Robin Review during commitfests pgsql-testers | For active testers of PostgreSQL Alphas and Betas Then there are a few other lists that are basically dead: pgsql-cluster-hackers | Discussion of replication/clustering features pgsql-php | Using PostgreSQL with PHP. pgsql-students | Google's Summer of Code students Barring serious objections/reasons as to why these lists should continue to exist, I'm planning to mark them as inactive tomorrow. The archives for them will continue to be active but the lists themselves will no longer function. Again, these lists have had zero traffic for the past year (or more), or very little traffic that has been either spam or, essentially, "ask on this other list." We can always bring a list back if there's a really good reason to, of course. Thanks! Stephen
Hi,
The "pgsql-nl-algemeen” can go. We are not using it anymore.
Regards,
Gevik.
Gevik Babakhani
github: https://github.com/blendsdk
twitter: @gevik, @blendjs
> On 3 Dec 2017, at 22:47, Stephen Frost wrote:
>
> pgsql-nl-algemeen
Gevik, * Gevik Babakhani (gevik@postgresql.nl) wrote: > The "pgsql-nl-algemeen” can go. We are not using it anymore. Great, thanks. Should we be thinking about something to replace it? That is, some contact information for individuals to use to get in touch with the Dutch PostgreSQL community? I note that you are writing from a postgresql.nl address, did you happen to see the 'Managing International Sites' thread which Jonathan started? I'd encourage you to review that thread and provide your thoughts on it. Thanks! Stephen
Hi, On 2017-12-03 16:47:58 -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: > Greetings all, > > Now that the migration to pglister is well on its way, I think it's past > time to start thinking about the lists that we *aren't* going to migrate > (and, instead, will let die off when mj2 goes away). > > First off, let's discuss the lists which have not had even one email > in the past year (excluding PUGs): > > pgsql-benchmarks | Discussion of PostgreSQL and benchmarks. > pgsql-chat | General chit-chat. > pgsql-cygwin | Former discussion of PostgreSQL under cygwin. > pgsql-hackers-pitr | Former discussion related to the PITR feature. > pgsql-hackers-win32 | Former discussion of issues relating to Win32 > pgsql-it-generale | Italian Developer Community General Discussions > pgsql-nl-algemeen | Dutch PostgreSQL Community > pgsql-patches | Obsolete list for posting patches to the PostgreSQL > pgsql-ports | Former discussion about porting PostgreSQL > pgsql-rrreviewers | Round Robin Review during commitfests > pgsql-testers | For active testers of PostgreSQL Alphas and Betas > > Then there are a few other lists that are basically dead: > > pgsql-cluster-hackers | Discussion of replication/clustering features > pgsql-php | Using PostgreSQL with PHP. > pgsql-students | Google's Summer of Code students > > Barring serious objections/reasons as to why these lists should continue > to exist, I'm planning to mark them as inactive tomorrow. The archives > for them will continue to be active but the lists themselves will no > longer function. Again, these lists have had zero traffic for the past > year (or more), or very little traffic that has been either spam or, > essentially, "ask on this other list." > > We can always bring a list back if there's a really good reason to, of > course. How about just redirecting some of them to more appropriate lists instead? Greetings, Andres Freund
Many years ago I requested to setup the "pgsql-nl-algemeen”. Unfortunately there was not so much activity there, to the point where no one is actually using it. At the moment I have redirected postgresql.nl to postgresql.org. I am talking to a community member here to see If we can setup a simple site for the Dutch speaking users.
Regards,
Gevik.
Gevik Babakhani
github: https://github.com/blendsdk
twitter: @gevik, @blendjs
> On 3 Dec 2017, at 22:57, Stephen Frost wrote:
>
> Gevik,
>
> * Gevik Babakhani (gevik@postgresql.nl) wrote:
>> The "pgsql-nl-algemeen” can go. We are not using it anymore.
>
> Great, thanks.
>
> Should we be thinking about something to replace it? That is, some
> contact information for individuals to use to get in touch with the
> Dutch PostgreSQL community?
>
> I note that you are writing from a postgresql.nl address, did you happen
> to see the 'Managing International Sites' thread which Jonathan started?
> I'd encourage you to review that thread and provide your thoughts on it.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Stephen
Andres, * Andres Freund (andres@anarazel.de) wrote: > On 2017-12-03 16:47:58 -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: > > Now that the migration to pglister is well on its way, I think it's past > > time to start thinking about the lists that we *aren't* going to migrate > > (and, instead, will let die off when mj2 goes away). [...] > How about just redirecting some of them to more appropriate lists > instead? They'd screw up people's filters, we're trying to deprecate the @postgresql.org list aliases, we'd end up making those lists look active through the archives when they really aren't (without more code anyway), and, frankly, I just don't see there really being value to it. Not all of them have places to redirect them to either. Thanks! Stephen
Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net> writes:
> * Andres Freund (andres@anarazel.de) wrote:
>> How about just redirecting some of them to more appropriate lists
>> instead?
> They'd screw up people's filters, we're trying to deprecate the
> @postgresql.org list aliases, we'd end up making those lists look
> active through the archives when they really aren't (without more code
> anyway), and, frankly, I just don't see there really being value to it.
I think a bounce would be fine if the bounce message contained something
like "this list is inactive, please send to <xxx@lists.postgresql.org>
instead". How feasible is that?
regards, tom lane
On 12/04/2017 03:42 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net> writes: >> * Andres Freund (andres@anarazel.de) wrote: >>> How about just redirecting some of them to more appropriate lists >>> instead? > >> They'd screw up people's filters, we're trying to deprecate the >> @postgresql.org list aliases, we'd end up making those lists look >> active through the archives when they really aren't (without more code >> anyway), and, frankly, I just don't see there really being value to it. > > I think a bounce would be fine if the bounce message contained something > like "this list is inactive, please send to <xxx@lists.postgresql.org> > instead". How feasible is that? doable - but the challenge there is that if we want to generate a proper bounce we will have to accept the mail and send back a bounce - that however makes us vulnerable to bounce blow-back (if say somebody fakes a an email sender and we direct the bounce in that direction back). The other option is to reject the RCPT TO at SMTP time with a message like the above on our frontends - the problem there is that is it up the sending MTA to wrap that text into a bounce that might or might not be parsable by a human :/ Stefan
Stefan Kaltenbrunner <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> writes:
> On 12/04/2017 03:42 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
>> I think a bounce would be fine if the bounce message contained something
>> like "this list is inactive, please send to <xxx@lists.postgresql.org>
>> instead". How feasible is that?
> doable - but the challenge there is that if we want to generate a proper
> bounce we will have to accept the mail and send back a bounce - that
> however makes us vulnerable to bounce blow-back (if say somebody fakes a
> an email sender and we direct the bounce in that direction back).
Yeah, probably not great.
> The other option is to reject the RCPT TO at SMTP time with a message
> like the above on our frontends - the problem there is that is it up the
> sending MTA to wrap that text into a bounce that might or might not be
> parsable by a human :/
Seems to me that that's an OK compromise. If people are using MTAs that
fail to expose the rejection message, that's their problem not ours.
regards, tom lane
Greetings, * Stefan Kaltenbrunner (stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc) wrote: > On 12/04/2017 03:42 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > > Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net> writes: > >> * Andres Freund (andres@anarazel.de) wrote: > >>> How about just redirecting some of them to more appropriate lists > >>> instead? > > > >> They'd screw up people's filters, we're trying to deprecate the > >> @postgresql.org list aliases, we'd end up making those lists look > >> active through the archives when they really aren't (without more code > >> anyway), and, frankly, I just don't see there really being value to it. > > > > I think a bounce would be fine if the bounce message contained something > > like "this list is inactive, please send to <xxx@lists.postgresql.org> > > instead". How feasible is that? > > doable - but the challenge there is that if we want to generate a proper > bounce we will have to accept the mail and send back a bounce - that > however makes us vulnerable to bounce blow-back (if say somebody fakes a > an email sender and we direct the bounce in that direction back). Gah, no, absolutely not. This is definitely not worth that. > The other option is to reject the RCPT TO at SMTP time with a message > like the above on our frontends - the problem there is that is it up the > sending MTA to wrap that text into a bounce that might or might not be > parsable by a human :/ I'd be alright with this as long as it's only a minimal amount of effort required. We've already spent more time discussing this than I think it's worth. Thanks! Stephen
Tom, * Tom Lane (tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote: > Stephen Frost <sfrost@snowman.net> writes: > > * Andres Freund (andres@anarazel.de) wrote: > >> How about just redirecting some of them to more appropriate lists > >> instead? > > > They'd screw up people's filters, we're trying to deprecate the > > @postgresql.org list aliases, we'd end up making those lists look > > active through the archives when they really aren't (without more code > > anyway), and, frankly, I just don't see there really being value to it. > > I think a bounce would be fine if the bounce message contained something > like "this list is inactive, please send to <xxx@lists.postgresql.org> > instead". How feasible is that? Based on discussion with Stefan, this is likely doable through a rejection w/ message from our front-ends without too much trouble. The current plan is that he'll look more deeply into it on Sunday or early next week. Since there haven't been any further comments and we'll be able to provide the 'list is inactive' message, at least for our part, to anyone trying to use these lists, I think we're going to move forward with that plan just as soon as Stefan has time to look at implementing it. If we run into issues implementing that plan then we'll fall back to doing regular bounces as initially contemplated. Thanks! Stephen
Gevik, * Gevik Babakhani (gevik@postgresql.nl) wrote: > Many years ago I requested to setup the "pgsql-nl-algemeen”. Unfortunately there was not so much activity there, to thepoint where no one is actually using it. At the moment I have redirected postgresql.nl to postgresql.org. I am talkingto a community member here to see If we can setup a simple site for the Dutch speaking users. Something else which occurs to me- PGLister works quite well across multiple domains and we (pginfra) already host multiple websites for other regional PostgreSQL associations and region-specific PG groups (postgresql.eu, postgresql.us, PGCAC, et al). Would you be interested in have pginfra help out here? Adding email forwards and mailing lists is particularly easy for us to do, as are DNS records and/or redirects. Having a full website would require content to be created by someone and we'd have to discuss what the backend of that would look like (we mostly run Django and are familiar with that). Thanks! Stephen
On 12/04/2017 08:03 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > Stefan Kaltenbrunner <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> writes: >> On 12/04/2017 03:42 PM, Tom Lane wrote: >>> I think a bounce would be fine if the bounce message contained something >>> like "this list is inactive, please send to <xxx@lists.postgresql.org> >>> instead". How feasible is that? > >> doable - but the challenge there is that if we want to generate a proper >> bounce we will have to accept the mail and send back a bounce - that >> however makes us vulnerable to bounce blow-back (if say somebody fakes a >> an email sender and we direct the bounce in that direction back). > > Yeah, probably not great. > >> The other option is to reject the RCPT TO at SMTP time with a message >> like the above on our frontends - the problem there is that is it up the >> sending MTA to wrap that text into a bounce that might or might not be >> parsable by a human :/ > > Seems to me that that's an OK compromise. If people are using MTAs that > fail to expose the rejection message, that's their problem not ours. implemented that way Stefan
Tom, all, * Tom Lane (tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote: > Stefan Kaltenbrunner <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> writes: > > The other option is to reject the RCPT TO at SMTP time with a message > > like the above on our frontends - the problem there is that is it up the > > sending MTA to wrap that text into a bounce that might or might not be > > parsable by a human :/ > > Seems to me that that's an OK compromise. If people are using MTAs that > fail to expose the rejection message, that's their problem not ours. This has been done for the lists that weren't already marked as 'inactive' in mj2 (apparently some of those that I listed had been discontinued previously). For example: -------- Trying 87.238.57.229... Connected to magus.postgresql.org. Escape character is '^]'. 220 magus.postgresql.org inbound mail system postgresql.org ESMTP Mon, 11 Dec 2017 20:12:07 +0000 ehlo test 250-magus.postgresql.org Hello magus.postgresql.org [87.238.57.229] 250-SIZE 20971520 250-8BITMIME 250-PIPELINING 250-STARTTLS 250 HELP mail from:<stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> 250 OK rcpt to:<pgsql-cluster-hackers@postgresql.org> 550-pgsql-cluster-hackers@postgresql.org has been discontinued please use 550 pgsql-hackers@lists.postgresql.org instead -------- Thanks! Stephen