Thread: Managing International Sites
Hi,
When going through an unrelated audit of the site contact, I was looking at our International Site page here:
https://www.postgresql.org/community/international/
Le 28.11.2017 22:20, Jonathan S. Katz a écrit : > Hi, > > When going through an unrelated audit of the site contact, I was > looking at our International Site page here: > > https://www.postgresql.org/community/international/ > > …and when going through the links, noticed a bunch of the sites were > either dead, unsupported, or placeholders, including: > > * Chinese (Simplified) > * Cubana > * Español (all 3 listed) > * Greek > * Italiano (Associazione Italian PostgreSQL Users Group) > > Additionally, others sites have not been updated for at least a year. > > Before removing the dead links, I wanted to raise the following: > > 1. Do the maintainers need to update the URLs? If so please contact > me ASAP. I would like to remove them by the end of the week. > 2. Do we feel that the international sites still provide value to > the community at large? This is mainly to solicit feedback and not > start a fight. Personally I am happy for us to monitor the sites (see > point #3), but I want to ensure that these sites help drive adoption > and usage of Postgres. > 3. If we are going to continue having the international sites as a > feature, we need some community guidelines similar to what we setup > for the NPOs and community events. I would be happy to take charge on > that if there are no objections. > 1. The link to the French speaking website should be https://www.postgresql.fr/ ( instead of http://www.postgresqlfr.org/ ) 2. Yes the French websites provides values to the community ! We have a forum, a blog, the documentation, a wiki, etc... I think it'd be interesting to add more links between the .org sites and the .fr sites. For instances, it would be cool if every documentation page had a link to the similar page in the French documentation, allowing readers to switch easily between the original version and their own language 3. The postgresql.fr domain and the hosting service are paid by the PostgreSQLFr association. The sysadmin team that operates it is open and autonomous. The PostgreSQLfr association also holds most of the social networks accounts (twitter, G+, linkedin, youtube, etc.) with another dedicated team to manage those accounts. Lats year, we defined a set of guidelines regarding the use of these accounts (link below) and we'd be happy to share our experience : https://www.postgresql.fr/asso/charte_des_outils_de_communication -- Damien Clochard
2017-11-28 23:28 GMT+01:00 Damien Clochard :
> Le 28.11.2017 22:20, Jonathan S. Katz a écrit :
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> When going through an unrelated audit of the site contact, I was
>> looking at our International Site page here:
>>
>> https://www.postgresql.org/community/international/
>>
>> …and when going through the links, noticed a bunch of the sites were
>> either dead, unsupported, or placeholders, including:
>>
>> * Chinese (Simplified)
>> * Cubana
>> * Español (all 3 listed)
>> * Greek
>> * Italiano (Associazione Italian PostgreSQL Users Group)
>>
>> Additionally, others sites have not been updated for at least a year.
>>
>> Before removing the dead links, I wanted to raise the following:
>>
>> 1. Do the maintainers need to update the URLs? If so please contact
>> me ASAP. I would like to remove them by the end of the week.
>> 2. Do we feel that the international sites still provide value to
>> the community at large? This is mainly to solicit feedback and not
>> start a fight. Personally I am happy for us to monitor the sites (see
>> point #3), but I want to ensure that these sites help drive adoption
>> and usage of Postgres.
>> 3. If we are going to continue having the international sites as a
>> feature, we need some community guidelines similar to what we setup
>> for the NPOs and community events. I would be happy to take charge on
>> that if there are no objections.
>>
>>
> 1. The link to the French speaking website should be
> https://www.postgresql.fr/ ( instead of http://www.postgresqlfr.org/ )
>
> 2. Yes the French websites provides values to the community ! We have a
> forum, a blog, the documentation, a wiki, etc... I think it'd be
> interesting to add more links between the .org sites and the .fr sites. For
> instances, it would be cool if every documentation page had a link to the
> similar page in the French documentation, allowing readers to switch easily
> between the original version and their own language
>
> 3. The postgresql.fr domain and the hosting service are paid by the
> PostgreSQLFr association. The sysadmin team that operates it is open and
> autonomous. The PostgreSQLfr association also holds most of the social
> networks accounts (twitter, G+, linkedin, youtube, etc.) with another
> dedicated team to manage those accounts. Lats year, we defined a set of
> guidelines regarding the use of these accounts (link below) and we'd be
> happy to share our experience :
>
> https://www.postgresql.fr/asso/charte_des_outils_de_communication
>
>
If need be, I +1 everything Damien just said there. There's a huge work on
the translation of the manual, on the web forums, and on the NPO.
--
Guillaume.
Hi Damien & Guillaume,
> On Nov 28, 2017, at 6:29 PM, Guillaume Lelarge wrote:
>
> 2017-11-28 23:28 GMT+01:00 Damien Clochard >:
> Le 28.11.2017 22:20, Jonathan S. Katz a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> When going through an unrelated audit of the site contact, I was
> looking at our International Site page here:
>
> https://www.postgresql.org/community/international/
>
> If need be, I +1 everything Damien just said there. There's a huge work on the translation of the manual, on the web forums, and on the NPO.
My last point was for “If we do continue to link to the International sites, we should have guidelines on what content they should contain” similar to some other guidelines. It seems like the PostgreSQL.fr
On 2017-11-29 18:50, Jonathan S. Katz wrote: <snip> > My last point was for “If we do continue to link to the International > sites, we should have guidelines on what content they should contain” > similar to some other guidelines. It seems like the PostgreSQL.fr > <http://postgresql.fr/> and some of the other actively maintained ones > could serve as a model for setting up those guidelines. Once those > guidelines are published, we can give the international sites a grace > period to follow the guidelines and also have a proper evaluation > process for bringing new sites into the fold. Hmmm, this kind of sounds like us wanting to be control freakish about stuff. It doesn't hurt for us to have basic sanity checks (eg is the site still online?, actively updated?, fairly accurate?). But be careful of the desire to impose strict *requirements* much past that. Guidelines might be ok, but hard requirements (with no flexibility) might be more harmful/issue-causing than otherwise. That being said... that's just a general concept. :) + Justin > Best, > > Jonathan
Hi Justin, > On Nov 29, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org> wrote: > > On 2017-11-29 18:50, Jonathan S. Katz wrote: > <snip> >> My last point was for “If we do continue to link to the International >> sites, we should have guidelines on what content they should contain” >> similar to some other guidelines. It seems like the PostgreSQL.fr >> <http://postgresql.fr/> and some of the other actively maintained ones >> could serve as a model for setting up those guidelines. Once those >> guidelines are published, we can give the international sites a grace >> period to follow the guidelines and also have a proper evaluation >> process for bringing new sites into the fold. > > Hmmm, this kind of sounds like us wanting to be control freakish about > stuff. > > It doesn't hurt for us to have basic sanity checks (eg is the site > still online?, actively updated?, fairly accurate?). > > But be careful of the desire to impose strict *requirements* much past > that. Guidelines might be ok, but hard requirements (with no flexibility) > might be more harmful/issue-causing than otherwise. Should we go down this path, they would be similar to the community event / NPO guidelines, which are just that. They imposevery few requirements, more they are a set of recommendations to follow. Thanks, Jonathan
Greetings, * Jonathan S. Katz (jkatz@postgresql.org) wrote: > > On Nov 29, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Justin Clift <justin@postgresql.org> wrote: > > On 2017-11-29 18:50, Jonathan S. Katz wrote: > > <snip> > >> My last point was for “If we do continue to link to the International > >> sites, we should have guidelines on what content they should contain” > >> similar to some other guidelines. It seems like the PostgreSQL.fr > >> <http://postgresql.fr/> and some of the other actively maintained ones > >> could serve as a model for setting up those guidelines. Once those > >> guidelines are published, we can give the international sites a grace > >> period to follow the guidelines and also have a proper evaluation > >> process for bringing new sites into the fold. > > > > Hmmm, this kind of sounds like us wanting to be control freakish about > > stuff. This is only if people want their websites to be linked from under PostgreSQL.Org, and it seems entirely reasonable to have appropriate policies for that. > > It doesn't hurt for us to have basic sanity checks (eg is the site > > still online?, actively updated?, fairly accurate?). To be linked under .Org as a formal international part of the project should definitely require more than just having an online website. My impression from above with your 'fairly accurate' seems to indicate that you also think there's more that should be done than just having a website- this is about defining what 'fairly accurate' means and, further, what's appropriate content and management of the international website is. > > But be careful of the desire to impose strict *requirements* much past > > that. Guidelines might be ok, but hard requirements (with no flexibility) > > might be more harmful/issue-causing than otherwise. I agree that there should be some flexibility, but the guidelines mentioned up-thread for .fr sound like exactly what we should be doing and, yes, if the operator of an international PG website decides that they don't want to follow those guidelines then, at a minimum, we should remove the link to that website. We have 'guidelines' for how the project's name and logo are able to used too, and it's important that we actually look out for those cases where the usage isn't proper and address it (which we actively do). > Should we go down this path, they would be similar to the community event / NPO guidelines, which are just that. Theyimpose very few requirements, more they are a set of recommendations to follow. I'm certainly in favor of this and agree that it sounds like the .fr guidelines would be a good place to start. Thanks! Stephen
Hi Jonathan,
The website for Chinese PostgreSQL community moved to
http://www.postgres.cn/ . It was one of three main tools to support our
community expansion. The website provides latest release and information
about PostgreSQL, latest events in Chinese community,
documents and experience sharing, discussion groups, etc. It does help the
community a lot.
Regards,
Daojing Zhou.
On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Stephen Frost wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> * Jonathan S. Katz (jkatz@postgresql.org) wrote:
> > > On Nov 29, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Justin Clift
> wrote:
> > > On 2017-11-29 18:50, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
> > >
> > >> My last point was for “If we do continue to link to the International
> > >> sites, we should have guidelines on what content they should contain”
> > >> similar to some other guidelines. It seems like the PostgreSQL.fr
> > >>
Hi,
> On Nov 30, 2017, at 8:21 AM, Stephen Frost wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> * Jonathan S. Katz (jkatz@postgresql.org) wrote:
>>> On Nov 29, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Justin Clift wrote:
>>> On 2017-11-29 18:50, Jonathan S. Katz wrote:
>>>
>>>> My last point was for “If we do continue to link to the International
>>>> sites, we should have guidelines on what content they should contain”
>>>> similar to some other guidelines. It seems like the PostgreSQL.fr
>>>>