Thread: Changes to about/sponsors

Changes to about/sponsors

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
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Hello,

Please review the following changes, patch is also attached:

http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


- -- 
The PostgreSQL Company: Since 1997, http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564   24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
SELECT 'Training', 'Consulting' FROM vendor WHERE name = 'CMD'


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Attachment

Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
Josh Berkus
Date:
Josh,

> Please review the following changes, patch is also attached:
>
> http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors

Questions:

What's the value in grouping by country?

When did Skype move to Luxemborg?

Does PostgreSQL, Inc. still exist?  Marc?

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco


Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
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On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:09:14 -0800
Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:

> Josh,
> 
> > Please review the following changes, patch is also attached:
> >
> > http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors
> 
> Questions:
> 
> What's the value in grouping by country?

It has always been grouped by country. I just moved the country to the
left so it was sorted left to right.

> 
> When did Skype move to Luxemborg?
> 

I changed no content.

> Does PostgreSQL, Inc. still exist?  Marc?
> 

I removed them because of Hub. I know of know sponsorship that
PostgreSQL, Inc. provides, but I do know that Hub provides.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


- -- 
The PostgreSQL Company: Since 1997, http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564   24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
SELECT 'Training', 'Consulting' FROM vendor WHERE name = 'CMD'


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Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
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Hash: SHA1


> Questions:

Let's try this again :)

> 
> What's the value in grouping by country?
> 

It was always sorted by country. I just moved the country to the left
so the sort key was read left to right. I felt it made it more readable.

> When did Skype move to Luxemborg?
>

This was present in the original document. So I don't know.
> Does PostgreSQL, Inc. still exist?  Marc?
> 

I do not know of any services PostgreSQL, Inc. provides to the
community. Thus they were removed. I do know of services Hub.Org
provides thus they weren't :).

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


- -- 
The PostgreSQL Company: Since 1997, http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564   24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
SELECT 'Training', 'Consulting' FROM vendor WHERE name = 'CMD'


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Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
Josh Berkus
Date:
Josh,

> It has always been grouped by country. I just moved the country to the
> left so it was sorted left to right.

Right.  I just don't see why that's an improvement.  Especially when a 
couple of those companies have addresses of convenience.

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco


Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
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Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:53:46 -0800
Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:

> Josh,
> 
> > It has always been grouped by country. I just moved the country to
> > the left so it was sorted left to right.
> 
> Right.  I just don't see why that's an improvement.  Especially when
> a couple of those companies have addresses of convenience.

The order by country didn't make visual sense before. It does now.

The other option is to just order by name which I am also o.k. with
but it is not consistent with the hosting/professional services
listing which groups by region and then lists alphabetically.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake 


- -- 
The PostgreSQL Company: Since 1997, http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564   24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
SELECT 'Training', 'Consulting' FROM vendor WHERE name = 'CMD'


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Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
"Marc G. Fournier"
Date:
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Hash: SHA1



- --On Thursday, December 13, 2007 15:09:14 -0800 Josh Berkus
<josh@agliodbs.com> 
wrote:

> Josh,
>
>> Please review the following changes, patch is also attached:
>>
>> http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors
>
> Questions:
>
> What's the value in grouping by country?
>
> When did Skype move to Luxemborg?
>
> Does PostgreSQL, Inc. still exist?  Marc?

Yes, most definitely ... else we forgot to tell our clients ...

- ----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org                              MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664
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Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
Robert Treat
Date:
On Thursday 13 December 2007 16:52, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Please review the following changes, patch is also attached:
>
> http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors
>

-1

-- 
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL


Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
Robert Treat wrote:
> On Thursday 13 December 2007 16:52, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Please review the following changes, patch is also attached:
>>
>> http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors
>>
> 
> -1

Could you please provide feedback so we can improve the current 
situation. The current sort order is bizarre.

Joshua D. Drake



Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
Petr Jelinek
Date:
Joshua D. Drake wrote:>>>>>> http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors>> Questions:>>>> What's the value in grouping by
country?

Grouping by country is on the original page too. I personally like the 
new version which is ordered left to right better.
But maybe we should make more radical change. For example completely 
random order (each hit, or new order every day or something like that) 
which I always felt is most fair way to list sponsors. This kind of 
change would require much more work tho.
>>> When did Skype move to Luxemborg?>>

Registered address of Skype Technologies S.A. is in Luxembourg 
(http://about.skype.com/) and I think it always was (better taxes maybe 
? ;) ).


-- 
Regards
Petr Jelinek (PJMODOS)


Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
Robert Treat
Date:
On Thursday 13 December 2007 22:59, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Robert Treat wrote:
> > On Thursday 13 December 2007 16:52, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> Please review the following changes, patch is also attached:
> >>
> >> http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors
> >
> > -1
>
> Could you please provide feedback so we can improve the current
> situation. The current sort order is bizarre.
>

I don't think anyone outside of the web team has ever complained about the 
sort order, and I see no reason to change it. 

-- 
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL


Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
Magnus Hagander
Date:
On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 02:15:29AM -0500, Robert Treat wrote:
> On Thursday 13 December 2007 22:59, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > Robert Treat wrote:
> > > On Thursday 13 December 2007 16:52, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > >> Hello,
> > >>
> > >> Please review the following changes, patch is also attached:
> > >>
> > >> http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors
> > >
> > > -1
> >
> > Could you please provide feedback so we can improve the current
> > situation. The current sort order is bizarre.
> >
> 
> I don't think anyone outside of the web team has ever complained about the 
> sort order, and I see no reason to change it. 

I didn't notice it before ;-) But I do find it strange, so I'd be +1 for
changing it, but don't really care how as long as it's logical.

//Magnus


Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
Magnus Hagander
Date:
On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 05:20:53AM +0100, Petr Jelinek wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> >>>
> >>> http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors
> >> Questions:
> >>
> >> What's the value in grouping by country?
> 
> Grouping by country is on the original page too. I personally like the 
> new version which is ordered left to right better.
> But maybe we should make more radical change. For example completely 
> random order (each hit, or new order every day or something like that) 
> which I always felt is most fair way to list sponsors. This kind of 
> change would require much more work tho.

This is not a bad idea at all. I like it.

Sholdn't be very hard to db'ify it and do that, if we agree that's how it
should be done. There are good examples to copy/paste from :-)

//Magnus


Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
Robert Treat wrote:
> On Thursday 13 December 2007 22:59, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> Robert Treat wrote:
>>> On Thursday 13 December 2007 16:52, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Please review the following changes, patch is also attached:
>>>>
>>>> http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors
>>> -1
>> Could you please provide feedback so we can improve the current
>> situation. The current sort order is bizarre.
>>
> 
> I don't think anyone outside of the web team has ever complained about the 
> sort order, and I see no reason to change it. 

Fair enough but I disagree :)

Joshua D. Drake




Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
Stefan Kaltenbrunner
Date:
Magnus Hagander wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 05:20:53AM +0100, Petr Jelinek wrote:
>> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>>>> http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors
>>>> Questions:
>>>>
>>>> What's the value in grouping by country?
>> Grouping by country is on the original page too. I personally like the 
>> new version which is ordered left to right better.
>> But maybe we should make more radical change. For example completely 
>> random order (each hit, or new order every day or something like that) 
>> which I always felt is most fair way to list sponsors. This kind of 
>> change would require much more work tho.
> 
> This is not a bad idea at all. I like it.
> 
> Sholdn't be very hard to db'ify it and do that, if we agree that's how it
> should be done. There are good examples to copy/paste from :-)

hrm - I'm not so sure I like the idea of having a non deterministic sort
order on more and more stuff. People tend to expect stuff ordered by
something (in this case the left-to-right reading made the existing
order a bit strange to understand) and I guess we would get questions
along "what is it ordered by" afterwards.


Stefan


Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
Josh Berkus
Date:
All,

-1 on the new format, but I can't say that I feel *that* strongly about it.


-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco


Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
Magnus Hagander
Date:
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Please review the following changes, patch is also attached:
> 
> http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors

Getting back to this one...

Is there any reason we should group this by country at all? Today we
group by country without showing it, which is the worst possible
combination, IMHO. JD's patch changes it so we properly show that we're
grouping it by country. But why *are* we grouping it my country in the
first place? This is sponsors to the Global Development Group, why do we
care about what country they're in that much? I think we should just
re-order them alphabetically, and keep the country column where it is
now (when it's ordered alphabetically, it makes sense to keep it there)...

Comments?

//Magnus


Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
Dave Page
Date:
Magnus Hagander wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Please review the following changes, patch is also attached:
>>
>> http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors
> 
> Getting back to this one...
> 
> Is there any reason we should group this by country at all? Today we
> group by country without showing it, which is the worst possible
> combination, IMHO. JD's patch changes it so we properly show that we're
> grouping it by country. But why *are* we grouping it my country in the
> first place? This is sponsors to the Global Development Group, why do we
> care about what country they're in that much? I think we should just
> re-order them alphabetically, and keep the country column where it is
> now (when it's ordered alphabetically, it makes sense to keep it there)...

+1

/D


Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
Dave Page wrote:
> Magnus Hagander wrote:
>> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Please review the following changes, patch is also attached:
>>>
>>> http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors
>> Getting back to this one...
>>
>> Is there any reason we should group this by country at all? Today we
>> group by country without showing it, which is the worst possible
>> combination, IMHO. JD's patch changes it so we properly show that we're
>> grouping it by country. But why *are* we grouping it my country in the
>> first place? This is sponsors to the Global Development Group, why do we
>> care about what country they're in that much? I think we should just
>> re-order them alphabetically, and keep the country column where it is
>> now (when it's ordered alphabetically, it makes sense to keep it there)...
> 
> +1

I am fine with that as well. My patch was only to create a logical order 
based on the current sort. Obviously alphabetical makes more sense as a 
whole and I am 100% behind that.

Would you like me to submit a patch for that or will you handle it?

Joshua D. Drake


> 
> /D
> 



Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
Magnus Hagander
Date:
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Dave Page wrote:
>> Magnus Hagander wrote:
>>> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Please review the following changes, patch is also attached:
>>>>
>>>> http://69.34.217.90/about/sponsors
>>> Getting back to this one...
>>>
>>> Is there any reason we should group this by country at all? Today we
>>> group by country without showing it, which is the worst possible
>>> combination, IMHO. JD's patch changes it so we properly show that we're
>>> grouping it by country. But why *are* we grouping it my country in the
>>> first place? This is sponsors to the Global Development Group, why do we
>>> care about what country they're in that much? I think we should just
>>> re-order them alphabetically, and keep the country column where it is
>>> now (when it's ordered alphabetically, it makes sense to keep it
>>> there)...
>>
>> +1
> 
> I am fine with that as well. My patch was only to create a logical order
> based on the current sort. Obviously alphabetical makes more sense as a
> whole and I am 100% behind that.
> 
> Would you like me to submit a patch for that or will you handle it?

If you have the time, please do.

//Magnus




Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
"Joshua D. Drake"
Date:
Magnus Hagander wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:

>> I am fine with that as well. My patch was only to create a logical order
>> based on the current sort. Obviously alphabetical makes more sense as a
>> whole and I am 100% behind that.
>>
>> Would you like me to submit a patch for that or will you handle it?
> 
> If you have the time, please do.

No problem.

Joshua D. Drake




Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
"Marc G. Fournier"
Date:
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Hash: SHA1



- --On Sunday, December 30, 2007 18:16:30 +0000 Dave Page <dpage@postgresql.org> 
wrote:

>> Is there any reason we should group this by country at all? Today we
>> group by country without showing it, which is the worst possible
>> combination, IMHO. JD's patch changes it so we properly show that we're
>> grouping it by country. But why *are* we grouping it my country in the
>> first place? This is sponsors to the Global Development Group, why do we
>> care about what country they're in that much? I think we should just
>> re-order them alphabetically, and keep the country column where it is
>> now (when it's ordered alphabetically, it makes sense to keep it there)...
>
> +1

Just curious, but having it visibly sorted by country, is there any possibility 
of provoking some sort of 'one up-mans-ship'?  For somewhere like the US, not 
so much so, but smaller companies in smaller countries might view a competitor 
as having sponsored and decide to do so also ... I know that that is one of the 
fundraising 'tricks' that you see used on tv telethons and such "so and so 
sponsored $X and challenges others to meet or beat that" .. not saying to put 
that text on the site, mind you ...

- ----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email . scrappy@hub.org                              MSN . scrappy@hub.org
Yahoo . yscrappy               Skype: hub.org        ICQ . 7615664
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Re: Changes to about/sponsors

From
Andrew Sullivan
Date:
On Sun, Dec 30, 2007 at 04:03:34PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:

> so much so, but smaller companies in smaller countries might view a
> competitor as having sponsored and decide to do so also ... I know that
> that is one of the fundraising 'tricks' that you see used on tv telethons
> and such "so and so sponsored $X and challenges others to meet or beat
> that" .. not saying to put that text on the site, mind you ...

If we wanted to do that, we could do so when trying to get sponsorships. 
The sorting of the list for users is confusing when it's by country (how
many of us know the primary incorporation location for most companies we
know of?), and it's the users' ability to find things that is the most
important, I think.

A