Thread: OT: Heterogenous networks
Sorry for the off topic post, but this is just to finish up a comment about XML I made earlier. Biztalk is the MS implementation, but SOAP is the protocol that wraps XML around the data. Here is a quote: Abstract SOAP is a lightweight protocol for exchange of information in a decentralized, distributed environment. It is an XML based protocol that consists of three parts: an envelope that defines a framework for describing what is in a message and how to process it, a set of encoding rules for expressing instances of application-defined datatypes, and a convention for representing remote procedure calls and responses. SOAP can potentially be used in combination with a variety of other protocols; however, the only bindings defined in this document describe how to use SOAP in combination with HTTP and HTTP Extension Framework. http://www.w3.org/TR/SOAP/ It is not an MS technology. But in regards to someone else's comment earlier, makes the idea of postgresql support for XML interesting. Adam Lang Systems Engineer Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company
SOAP is based on XML-RPC while it corrected some of the XML-RPC limitations. Both SOAP and XML-RPC use HTTP protocols to exchanges XML packets through procedure calls, which is different form CORBA and RMI. Philip Adam Lang wrote: > > Sorry for the off topic post, but this is just to finish up a comment about > XML I made earlier. > > Biztalk is the MS implementation, but SOAP is the protocol that wraps XML > around the data. Here is a quote: > > Abstract > SOAP is a lightweight protocol for exchange of information in a > decentralized, distributed environment. It is an XML based protocol that > consists of three parts: an envelope that defines a framework for describing > what is in a message and how to process it, a set of encoding rules for > expressing instances of application-defined datatypes, and a convention for > representing remote procedure calls and responses. SOAP can potentially be > used in combination with a variety of other protocols; however, the only > bindings defined in this document describe how to use SOAP in combination > with HTTP and HTTP Extension Framework. > > http://www.w3.org/TR/SOAP/ > > It is not an MS technology. > > But in regards to someone else's comment earlier, makes the idea of > postgresql support for XML interesting. > > Adam Lang > Systems Engineer > Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company
I agree, it is different, but XML and SOAP means no licensing, not platform dependent and standardized. :) I do appreciate the info and feedback offered. Adam Lang Systems Engineer Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company ----- Original Message ----- From: "Red Pineseed" <yue207@home.com> To: "pgsql-interfaces" <pgsql-interfaces@postgresql.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [INTERFACES] OT: Heterogenous networks > SOAP is based on XML-RPC while it corrected some of the > XML-RPC limitations. Both SOAP and XML-RPC use HTTP > protocols to exchanges XML packets through procedure calls, > which is different form CORBA and RMI. > > > Philip > > > > Adam Lang wrote: > > > > Sorry for the off topic post, but this is just to finish up a comment about > > XML I made earlier. > > > > Biztalk is the MS implementation, but SOAP is the protocol that wraps XML > > around the data. Here is a quote: > > > > Abstract > > SOAP is a lightweight protocol for exchange of information in a > > decentralized, distributed environment. It is an XML based protocol that > > consists of three parts: an envelope that defines a framework for describing > > what is in a message and how to process it, a set of encoding rules for > > expressing instances of application-defined datatypes, and a convention for > > representing remote procedure calls and responses. SOAP can potentially be > > used in combination with a variety of other protocols; however, the only > > bindings defined in this document describe how to use SOAP in combination > > with HTTP and HTTP Extension Framework. > > > > http://www.w3.org/TR/SOAP/ > > > > It is not an MS technology. > > > > But in regards to someone else's comment earlier, makes the idea of > > postgresql support for XML interesting. > > > > Adam Lang > > Systems Engineer > > Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company
> I agree, it is different, but XML and SOAP means no licensing, not platform > dependent and standardized. :) CORBA is both standardised and platform independent. Furthermore, if you use one of the many Open Source ORBs you don't need to pay license fees to anyone. CORBA is also more mature and technically superior to SOAP: * There are many implementations of CORBA in the market place with a variety of support model; e.g. ranging from proprietary source / commercial through to "free" (in the FSF sense). * All the cruft of building and parsing XML structures in SOAP is done automatically in CORBA by generated stubs. * CORBA IIOP is far more compact than XML representations, and can be marshalled and unmarshalled a lot faster. * CORBA gives you object references and object location transparency. * CORBA has a wide range of existing intrastructure and application domain services. * The OMG is working on a standard for CORBA over XML. * and so on. -- Steve
Man... everything has to be so hard to make a decision on... Sometimes I wish someone was here before me that made these tech decisions... Adam Lang Systems Engineer Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Crawley" <crawley@dstc.edu.au> To: "Adam Lang" <aalang@rutgersinsurance.com> Cc: "pgsql-interfaces" <pgsql-interfaces@postgresql.org>; <crawley@dstc.edu.au> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 10:55 PM Subject: Re: [INTERFACES] OT: Heterogenous networks > > I agree, it is different, but XML and SOAP means no licensing, not platform > > dependent and standardized. :) > > CORBA is both standardised and platform independent. > > Furthermore, if you use one of the many Open Source ORBs you don't need > to pay license fees to anyone. > > CORBA is also more mature and technically superior to SOAP: > > * There are many implementations of CORBA in the market place > with a variety of support model; e.g. ranging from proprietary > source / commercial through to "free" (in the FSF sense). > > * All the cruft of building and parsing XML structures in SOAP > is done automatically in CORBA by generated stubs. > > * CORBA IIOP is far more compact than XML representations, > and can be marshalled and unmarshalled a lot faster. > > * CORBA gives you object references and object location transparency. > > * CORBA has a wide range of existing intrastructure and application > domain services. > > * The OMG is working on a standard for CORBA over XML. > > * and so on. > > -- Steve > >
Today, in a message to pgsql-interfaces Adam Lang wrote: > > Man... everything has to be so hard to make a decision on... Sometimes > I wish someone was here before me that made these tech decisions... Stephen Crawley had written: > > > > CORBA is both standardised and platform independent. While I tend to agree with Stephen, and I had mentioned CORBA in an earlier message too, Adam may be in a bit of a bind because he has settled on using VB. I'm not aware of a CORBA mapping for that, is there one? By choosing VB one more or less commits to a Microsoft only solution, arghh. Depending on the nature of your application you may also want to investigate building a Web application. The client would be IExplorer to stay with the Microsoft only approach. :) And you can also use VBScript if you like. Joachim -- work: joachima@realtimeint.com (http://www.realtimeint.com) private: joachim@kraut.ca (http://www.kraut.ca)
> Today, in a message to pgsql-interfaces Adam Lang wrote: > > > > Man... everything has to be so hard to make a decision > on... Sometimes > > I wish someone was here before me that made these tech decisions... > > Stephen Crawley had written: > > > > > > CORBA is both standardised and platform independent. > > While I tend to agree with Stephen, and I had mentioned CORBA in an > earlier message too, Adam may be in a bit of a bind because > he has settled > on using VB. I'm not aware of a CORBA mapping for that, is there one? > > By choosing VB one more or less commits to a Microsoft only solution, > arghh. I believe that you could try Orbix - have a look at http://www.iona.com/products/orb_orbc++_home.htm for more details. To quote briefly from the web page: "Use familiar tools such as Visual Basic, PowerBuilder, Delphi, MS Office or Active Server Pages to write COM applicationsthat can easily access CORBA applications." Please note that I have not used Orbix, and I believe it will cost a fairly large chunk of cash to license. Anyone actually have experience with this thing? Francis
Since all clients in my company are Windows and I already know VB, it is by far the most logical choice for a desktop application. But it doesn't necessarily mean MS only... granted the development tools gear towards it. That is the one advantage of SOAP and XML. It can handle, theoretically, the distributed environment for non MS hosts and it is not locking myself into MS technology. As for CORBA in VB, I think you need to use a DCOM to Corba bridge... atleast that is what I heard. Adam Lang Systems Engineer Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joachim Achtzehnter" <joachim@kraut.ca> To: "Adam Lang" <aalang@rutgersinsurance.com> Cc: "pgsql-interfaces" <pgsql-interfaces@postgresql.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [INTERFACES] OT: Heterogenous networks > Today, in a message to pgsql-interfaces Adam Lang wrote: > > > > Man... everything has to be so hard to make a decision on... Sometimes > > I wish someone was here before me that made these tech decisions... > > Stephen Crawley had written: > > > > > > CORBA is both standardised and platform independent. > > While I tend to agree with Stephen, and I had mentioned CORBA in an > earlier message too, Adam may be in a bit of a bind because he has settled > on using VB. I'm not aware of a CORBA mapping for that, is there one? > > By choosing VB one more or less commits to a Microsoft only solution, > arghh. > > Depending on the nature of your application you may also want to > investigate building a Web application. The client would be IExplorer to > stay with the Microsoft only approach. :) And you can also use VBScript if > you like. > > Joachim > > -- > work: joachima@realtimeint.com (http://www.realtimeint.com) > private: joachim@kraut.ca (http://www.kraut.ca)
Hi everybody, usually I'm just a listener on this mailing list, but this time I'd like to express my opinion. I see you're talking about VB and, as it seems, an in house application. Then you speak about SOAP, DCOM and CORBA. If you are making in house applications in VB, you can use available tools without issuing to XML or SOAP. If you use a client/server approach, you can use the ODBC driver to access a Postgres server. If you're thinking to adopt a three-tier approach, you can build the middle tier in VB over a WIN2000 server (God save us!) and still access you Postgres db over ODBC (in fact, it would be much better if there were a OLE-DB driver): the business rules are the most important part of your system and if you know only VB, well, I can't see any other solution. SOAP, Biztalk and the other MS appraches to platform independent communications are geared toward business to business communication, when you need to access informations and applications that are located remotely, maybe on a different platform, but surely with a different information structure (the same db will be designed with different tables by different db experts), so there's a different context. In conclusion, I don't think that one needs SOAP for in-house development. You must also consider that XML creation, decode an transmission requires bandwith and processing time, so it's not as efficient as an ODBC/OLE-DB driver. I hope this helps. Andrea Aime Adam Lang wrote: > > Since all clients in my company are Windows and I already know VB, it is by > far the most logical choice for a desktop application. > > But it doesn't necessarily mean MS only... granted the development tools > gear towards it. That is the one advantage of SOAP and XML. It can handle, > theoretically, the distributed environment for non MS hosts and it is not > locking myself into MS technology. > > As for CORBA in VB, I think you need to use a DCOM to Corba bridge... > atleast that is what I heard. > > Adam Lang > Systems Engineer > Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joachim Achtzehnter" <joachim@kraut.ca> > To: "Adam Lang" <aalang@rutgersinsurance.com> > Cc: "pgsql-interfaces" <pgsql-interfaces@postgresql.org> > Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:56 PM > Subject: Re: [INTERFACES] OT: Heterogenous networks > > > Today, in a message to pgsql-interfaces Adam Lang wrote: > > > > > > Man... everything has to be so hard to make a decision on... Sometimes > > > I wish someone was here before me that made these tech decisions... > > > > Stephen Crawley had written: > > > > > > > > CORBA is both standardised and platform independent. > > > > While I tend to agree with Stephen, and I had mentioned CORBA in an > > earlier message too, Adam may be in a bit of a bind because he has settled > > on using VB. I'm not aware of a CORBA mapping for that, is there one? > > > > By choosing VB one more or less commits to a Microsoft only solution, > > arghh. > > > > Depending on the nature of your application you may also want to > > investigate building a Web application. The client would be IExplorer to > > stay with the Microsoft only approach. :) And you can also use VBScript if > > you like. > > > > Joachim > > > > -- > > work: joachima@realtimeint.com (http://www.realtimeint.com) > > private: joachim@kraut.ca (http://www.kraut.ca)
There are several reasons I am bringing it up. First, it is an in house application, but I'm adopting the approach of 3 tier architecture. Second, I have windows desktops (hence the VB), but I have Linux servers in my network. Third, our company also has an AS/400 and an os/390, so I am looking to incorporate a solution that I can use for all of them. Finally, I may need to start working on an in-house application that will be rolled out, eventually, to third parties to access system from our legacy applications. VB on the desktop, XML/SOAP for the protocol and java on the servers seems to be the best solution with the minimal amount of technologies to use. After regarding everything, I think xml/soap will serve me best. Adam Lang Systems Engineer Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrea Aime" <aaime@comune.modena.it> To: "Adam Lang" <aalang@rutgersinsurance.com> Cc: "pgsql-interfaces" <pgsql-interfaces@postgresql.org> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 3:16 AM Subject: Re: [INTERFACES] OT: Heterogenous networks > Hi everybody, > usually I'm just a listener on this mailing list, but this time > I'd like to express my opinion. I see you're talking about VB and, > as it seems, an in house application. Then you speak about SOAP, DCOM > and CORBA. If you are making in house applications in VB, you can use > available tools without issuing to XML or SOAP. If you use a > client/server > approach, you can use the ODBC driver to access a Postgres server. If > you're > thinking to adopt a three-tier approach, you can build the middle tier > in > VB over a WIN2000 server (God save us!) and still access you Postgres db > over ODBC (in fact, it would be much better if there were a OLE-DB > driver): > the business rules are the most important part of your system and if you > know only VB, well, I can't see any other solution. > SOAP, Biztalk and the other MS appraches to platform independent > communications are geared toward business to business communication, > when > you need to access informations and applications that are located > remotely, > maybe on a different platform, but surely with a different information > structure (the same db will be designed with different tables by > different db experts), so there's a different context. In conclusion, I > don't think that one needs SOAP for in-house development. You must also > consider that XML creation, decode an transmission requires bandwith and > processing time, so it's not as efficient as an ODBC/OLE-DB driver. > I hope this helps. > Andrea Aime > > Adam Lang wrote: > > > > Since all clients in my company are Windows and I already know VB, it is by > > far the most logical choice for a desktop application. > > > > But it doesn't necessarily mean MS only... granted the development tools > > gear towards it. That is the one advantage of SOAP and XML. It can handle, > > theoretically, the distributed environment for non MS hosts and it is not > > locking myself into MS technology. > > > > As for CORBA in VB, I think you need to use a DCOM to Corba bridge... > > atleast that is what I heard. > > > > Adam Lang > > Systems Engineer > > Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joachim Achtzehnter" <joachim@kraut.ca> > > To: "Adam Lang" <aalang@rutgersinsurance.com> > > Cc: "pgsql-interfaces" <pgsql-interfaces@postgresql.org> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 12:56 PM > > Subject: Re: [INTERFACES] OT: Heterogenous networks > > > > > Today, in a message to pgsql-interfaces Adam Lang wrote: > > > > > > > > Man... everything has to be so hard to make a decision on... Sometimes > > > > I wish someone was here before me that made these tech decisions... > > > > > > Stephen Crawley had written: > > > > > > > > > > CORBA is both standardised and platform independent. > > > > > > While I tend to agree with Stephen, and I had mentioned CORBA in an > > > earlier message too, Adam may be in a bit of a bind because he has settled > > > on using VB. I'm not aware of a CORBA mapping for that, is there one? > > > > > > By choosing VB one more or less commits to a Microsoft only solution, > > > arghh. > > > > > > Depending on the nature of your application you may also want to > > > investigate building a Web application. The client would be IExplorer to > > > stay with the Microsoft only approach. :) And you can also use VBScript if > > > you like. > > > > > > Joachim > > > > > > -- > > > work: joachima@realtimeint.com (http://www.realtimeint.com) > > > private: joachim@kraut.ca (http://www.kraut.ca)
On Thu, Nov 16, 2000 at 09:16:07AM +0100, Andrea Aime wrote: > Hi everybody, <snip> > the business rules are the most important part of your system and if you > know only VB, well, I can't see any other solution. > SOAP, Biztalk and the other MS appraches to platform independent > communications are geared toward business to business communication, > when > you need to access informations and applications that are located > remotely, > maybe on a different platform, but surely with a different information > structure (the same db will be designed with different tables by > different db experts), so there's a different context. In conclusion, I > don't think that one needs SOAP for in-house development. You must also > consider that XML creation, decode an transmission requires bandwith and > processing time, so it's not as efficient as an ODBC/OLE-DB driver. All good points, but why the sharp distinction in coding intra- vs. extranet apps? These days, with mergers, spinoffs, aquisitions, and outsourcing, what's intra- today may be b-2-b tomorrow. And vice-versa. Best to be prepared for anything. My fraction of a currency unit, Ross -- Open source code is like a natural resource, it's the result of providing food and sunshine to programmers, and then staying out of their way. [...] [It] is not going away because it has utility for both the developers and users independent of economic motivations. Jim Flynn, Sunnyvale, Calif.
I have a problem with loading the JDBC Driver.
So far, my java code does nothing but to load the driver, and
it gives SQLException with message "No suitable driver".
I made the postgresql.jar with
>make jdbc2
(because I am using jdk1.3)
and I used
>jar tf postgresql.jar
to make sure that the driver was included.
(postgresql/Driver.class)
My CLASSPATH is following:
:/usr/local/lib/postgresql.jar:/usr/local/jdk1.3/bin/:/home/tony/classes/
I am trying to load the driver by doing
>Class.forName("postgresql.Driver");
This is under linux platform. Please let me know what could be
wrong if you see anything wrong.
Thanks!
> I am trying to load the driver by doing
> >Class.forName("postgresql.Driver");
Try:
Class.forName("org.postgresql.Driver");
Hope this helps
Michael Stephenson
Michael, Peter, Chris,
Thanks for the advice. I forgot to mention that
I tried org.postgresql.Driver and it didn't work...
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Stephenson" <mstephenson@tirin.openworld.co.uk>
To: "tony" <tony@uickarate.com>
Cc: "pgsql-interfaces" <pgsql-interfaces@postgresql.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [INTERFACES] JDBC Problem
> > I am trying to load the driver by doing
> > >Class.forName("postgresql.Driver");
>
> Try:
>
> Class.forName("org.postgresql.Driver");
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Michael Stephenson
>
>