Thread: unresolved bugs
Over the past few months, I've been attempting to keep tracks of which postings on pgsql-bugs have not gotten a response and to respond to those where I have a clue what the issue might be. However, there are a few that I don't really have an idea about which look like they might be real bugs... or some of them might be user error, not sure. The first of these in particular is a fairly detailed report of what looks might be a fairly serious problem. pg_listener entries deleted under heavy NOTIFY load only on Windows http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2009-12/msg00274.php COPY staments with paths containing non-ASCII characters under WinXP http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2009-12/msg00267.php BUG #5245: Full Server Certificate Chain Not Sent to client http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2009-12/msg00145.php BUG #5236: Aparent bug in ecpg http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2009-12/msg00078.php incorrect exit code from psql with single transaction + violation of deferred FK constraint http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2009-10/msg00039.php Should we add any of these here? http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PostgreSQL_8.5_Open_Items ...Robert
Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> writes: > The first of these in particular is a fairly detailed report of what > looks might be a fairly serious problem. > pg_listener entries deleted under heavy NOTIFY load only on Windows > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2009-12/msg00274.php Yeah, that needs to be looked at by a Windows expert (ie not me). > COPY staments with paths containing non-ASCII characters under WinXP > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2009-12/msg00267.php The general question of what to do with non-ASCII paths is still open. I don't think there's any consensus about what to do about it, mainly because it's not clear that we know what encoding is in use in the filesystem. In any case, defining the problem as limited to COPY, or to Windows, seems to me to be missing the point. > BUG #5245: Full Server Certificate Chain Not Sent to client > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2009-12/msg00145.php Not clear to me whether this is a bug, or at least our bug. Isn't that behavior entirely openssl's to determine? > BUG #5236: Aparent bug in ecpg > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2009-12/msg00078.php Michael needs to look at that one. > incorrect exit code from psql with single transaction + violation of > deferred FK constraint > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2009-10/msg00039.php Seems like a bug to me too, or at least dubious. regards, tom lane
Robert Haas escribió: > Over the past few months, I've been attempting to keep tracks of which > postings on pgsql-bugs have not gotten a response and to respond to > those where I have a clue what the issue might be. So you installed the bugzilla module on yourself? Neat. Keep at it! > Should we add any of these here? > > http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PostgreSQL_8.5_Open_Items +1, all of them. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote: > Robert Haas escribió: >> Over the past few months, I've been attempting to keep tracks of which >> postings on pgsql-bugs have not gotten a response and to respond to >> those where I have a clue what the issue might be. > > So you installed the bugzilla module on yourself? Neat. Keep at it! Actually it's Brucezilla. ...Robert
Robert Haas wrote: > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Alvaro Herrera > <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote: >> Robert Haas escribió: >>> Over the past few months, I've been attempting to keep tracks of which >>> postings on pgsql-bugs have not gotten a response and to respond to >>> those where I have a clue what the issue might be. >> So you installed the bugzilla module on yourself? Neat. Keep at it! > > Actually it's Brucezilla. hmm maybe I should resurrect the bugzilla testbed again :) Stefan
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Stefan Kaltenbrunner <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> wrote: > Robert Haas wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Alvaro Herrera >> <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote: >>> >>> Robert Haas escribió: >>>> >>>> Over the past few months, I've been attempting to keep tracks of which >>>> postings on pgsql-bugs have not gotten a response and to respond to >>>> those where I have a clue what the issue might be. >>> >>> So you installed the bugzilla module on yourself? Neat. Keep at it! >> >> Actually it's Brucezilla. > > hmm maybe I should resurrect the bugzilla testbed again :) If we're going to use a bug-tracker, Bugzilla wouldn't be my first choice, I don't think. Honestly what I'd like better than a full-fledged trackers is just a webapp that lists all the unreplied-to emails in the pgsql-bugs archives. That wouldn't of course tell you if a bug got a reply that didn't actually resolve the issue, but that doesn't seem to be very common anyway. Most times if nobody responds it's because either (1) it's not really a bug (user question, feature request, etc.) or (2) the person who is qualified to respond doesn't actually read pgsql-bugs. ...Robert
Robert Haas escribió: > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Stefan Kaltenbrunner > <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> wrote: > > hmm maybe I should resurrect the bugzilla testbed again :) > > If we're going to use a bug-tracker, Bugzilla wouldn't be my first > choice, I don't think. Honestly what I'd like better than a > full-fledged trackers is just a webapp that lists all the unreplied-to > emails in the pgsql-bugs archives. Hey, let's use debbugs! -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> writes: > If we're going to use a bug-tracker, Bugzilla wouldn't be my first > choice, I don't think. Honestly what I'd like better than a > full-fledged trackers is just a webapp that lists all the unreplied-to > emails in the pgsql-bugs archives. For something like a flexible archiving solution of mails, what about having a look at ArchiveOpteryx, which offers IMAP service atop a PostgreSQL database containing emails, along with full text search and virtual search folders. And a web interface too. http://www.archiveopteryx.org/ http://archives.aox.org/archives/pgsql-announce I don't know the details because I'm yet to operate that, but it seems like it could help us. Regards, -- dim
Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Robert Haas escribió: > >> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Stefan Kaltenbrunner >> <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> wrote: >> > > >>> hmm maybe I should resurrect the bugzilla testbed again :) >>> >> If we're going to use a bug-tracker, Bugzilla wouldn't be my first >> choice, I don't think. Honestly what I'd like better than a >> full-fledged trackers is just a webapp that lists all the unreplied-to >> emails in the pgsql-bugs archives. >> > > Hey, let's use debbugs! > Oh, wow, I didn't realize it was time for another round of this. Wheeeee! cheers andrew
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> wrote: > Alvaro Herrera wrote: >> Robert Haas escribió: >>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Stefan Kaltenbrunner >>> <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> wrote: >>>> hmm maybe I should resurrect the bugzilla testbed again :) >>> If we're going to use a bug-tracker, Bugzilla wouldn't be my first >>> choice, I don't think. Honestly what I'd like better than a >>> full-fledged trackers is just a webapp that lists all the unreplied-to >>> emails in the pgsql-bugs archives. >> Hey, let's use debbugs! > Oh, wow, I didn't realize it was time for another round of this. Wheeeee! Personally, I was more hoping we could consider fixing some of them... ...Robert
> Personally, I was more hoping we could consider fixing some of them... Agreed. I really don't think a bug tracker helps us. We need two things: (1) to respond to bug submissions immediately and fix them, and (2) if we can't fix the bugs immediately, to add them to a TODO list Adding stuff to a bug tracker is just a way to procrastinate on it indefinitely. --Josh Berkus
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:09 PM, Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> wrote: > Oh, wow, I didn't realize it was time for another round of this. Wheeeee! > Actually I suspect it is time. My preferences have changed. While they used to go something like debbugs > RT > nothing > bugzilla they now go something like debbugs > RT > bugzilla > nothing. That is, even though bugzilla is possibly my least favourite open source bug tracking system it's still better than continuing the way we are. We've been pretty lucky so far, in part due to Tom and others being remarkably diligent but it's only a matter of time until we forget or miss a critical report. And from a PR point of view it just looks terrible. So in short while I still think debbugs is the best approach to this I've seen at this point *any* free software based solution is fine with me. I'm assuming they can all be configured to send all new bug reports to a mailing list and I do think we should choose one that stores the database in Postgres, but I think that's true for nearly all of them and can be made true for all of them. -- greg
On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 00:45 +0000, Greg Stark wrote: > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:09 PM, Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> wrote: > > Oh, wow, I didn't realize it was time for another round of this. Wheeeee! > > > > Actually I suspect it is time. > > My preferences have changed. While they used to go something like > debbugs > RT > nothing > bugzilla they now go something like debbugs > > RT > bugzilla > nothing. That is, even though bugzilla is possibly my > least favourite open source bug tracking system it's still better than > continuing the way we are. We've been pretty lucky so far, in part due > to Tom and others being remarkably diligent but it's only a matter of > time until we forget or miss a critical report. And from a PR point of > view it just looks terrible. > > So in short while I still think debbugs is the best approach to this > I've seen at this point *any* free software based solution is fine > with me. I have been looking at roundup fairly extensively. It is what bugs.python.org uses. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: > Agreed. I really don't think a bug tracker helps us. We need two things: > > (1) to respond to bug submissions immediately and fix them, and > (2) if we can't fix the bugs immediately, to add them to a TODO list > > Adding stuff to a bug tracker is just a way to procrastinate on it > indefinitely. > It's up to us what issues we want to track in what system. It's perfectly acceptable to say any todo items are tracked outside in the TODO wiki page. And incidentally I agree with you. But we also have the open items list that Bruce (sorry I should have credited you before) and Tom and now apparently Robert track. These issues are usually tracked for the current development tree because we're more willing to leave these pending in the development tree but they also come up for point releases. Sometimes we're not sure what the right fix is right away or we're waiting on some research or debugging work but they have to be taken care of for the next release or declared non-bugs or not worth fixing. They shouldn't just be forgotten about. So far we've done a good job but it would be more credible for people not following the lists if we could point them at the current list at any time and see what kind of known issues we have and what happens to issues they report. -- greg
Greg Stark wrote: > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: > >> Agreed. I really don't think a bug tracker helps us. We need two things: >> >> (1) to respond to bug submissions immediately and fix them, and >> (2) if we can't fix the bugs immediately, to add them to a TODO list >> >> Adding stuff to a bug tracker is just a way to procrastinate on it >> indefinitely. >> >> > > It's up to us what issues we want to track in what system. It's > perfectly acceptable to say any todo items are tracked outside in the > TODO wiki page. And incidentally I agree with you. > > But we also have the open items list that Bruce (sorry I should have > credited you before) and Tom and now apparently Robert track. These > issues are usually tracked for the current development tree because > we're more willing to leave these pending in the development tree but > they also come up for point releases. Sometimes we're not sure what > the right fix is right away or we're waiting on some research or > debugging work but they have to be taken care of for the next release > or declared non-bugs or not worth fixing. They shouldn't just be > forgotten about. > > So far we've done a good job but it would be more credible for people > not following the lists if we could point them at the current list at > any time and see what kind of known issues we have and what happens to > issues they report. > I think the commitfest app has actually given us a handle on how we could use a tracker. (Kudos to Robert for that app, btw). People feared that it would become an alternative to the mailing list(s), but it hasn't in practice. people have expressed the same fear abotu a tracker, but presumably we could use a tracker in a similar fashion. It really would be nice for users to be able to search for bugs, and see where/when_ot_if/how they got resolved, without having to seach mailing list archives. Stefan did some terrific work a couple of years ago to marry up bugzilla to the -bugs mailing list and web forms, before we ran out of steam. cheers andrew
On ons, 2010-01-06 at 16:44 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > > Personally, I was more hoping we could consider fixing some of them... > > Agreed. I really don't think a bug tracker helps us. We need two things: > > (1) to respond to bug submissions immediately and fix them, and > (2) if we can't fix the bugs immediately, to add them to a TODO list > > Adding stuff to a bug tracker is just a way to procrastinate on it > indefinitely. The problem is that your two-step plan requires failsafe human intervention, whereas a bug tracker doesn't.
On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 00:45 +0000, Greg Stark wrote: > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:09 PM, Andrew Dunstan <andrew@dunslane.net> wrote: > > Oh, wow, I didn't realize it was time for another round of this. Wheeeee! > > > > Actually I suspect it is time. > > My preferences have changed. While they used to go something like > debbugs > RT > nothing > bugzilla they now go something like debbugs > > RT > bugzilla > nothing. That is, even though bugzilla is possibly my > least favourite open source bug tracking system it's still better than > continuing the way we are. We've been pretty lucky so far, in part due > to Tom and others being remarkably diligent but it's only a matter of > time until we forget or miss a critical report. And from a PR point of > view it just looks terrible. > > So in short while I still think debbugs is the best approach to this > I've seen at this point *any* free software based solution is fine > with me. I have been looking at roundup fairly extensively. It is what bugs.python.org uses. Joshua D. Drake -- PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564 Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.
Robert Haas wrote: > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Stefan Kaltenbrunner > <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> wrote: >> Robert Haas wrote: >>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Alvaro Herrera >>> <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote: >>>> Robert Haas escribió: >>>>> Over the past few months, I've been attempting to keep tracks of which >>>>> postings on pgsql-bugs have not gotten a response and to respond to >>>>> those where I have a clue what the issue might be. >>>> So you installed the bugzilla module on yourself? Neat. Keep at it! >>> Actually it's Brucezilla. >> hmm maybe I should resurrect the bugzilla testbed again :) > > If we're going to use a bug-tracker, Bugzilla wouldn't be my first > choice, I don't think. Honestly what I'd like better than a > full-fledged trackers is just a webapp that lists all the unreplied-to > emails in the pgsql-bugs archives. That wouldn't of course tell you > if a bug got a reply that didn't actually resolve the issue, but that > doesn't seem to be very common anyway. Most times if nobody responds > it's because either (1) it's not really a bug (user question, feature > request, etc.) or (2) the person who is qualified to respond doesn't > actually read pgsql-bugs. *sigh* - that was mostly ment as a joke and not a really serious comment. However the idea I actually had with BZ back in the days was not to use it as a full fledged tracker(in the sense of exposing it to users or developers) Instead I would just use it as the background engine that does nothing more than being subscribed to -bugs, tracks the stuff there and provides an summary export about (not)replied to reports. If somebody later on wants to annotate the emails/reports there (as in solved,open,moved to todo,not a pg core question,whatever) fine - if not fine as well :) Stefan
On Wed, Jan 06, 2010 at 03:36:39PM -0500, Tom Lane wrote: > > BUG #5236: Aparent bug in ecpg > > http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2009-12/msg00078.php > > Michael needs to look at that one. I'm waiting for a reproducable test case. Michael -- Michael Meskes Michael at Fam-Meskes dot De, Michael at Meskes dot (De|Com|Net|Org) Michael at BorussiaFan dot De, Meskes at (Debian|Postgresql) dot Org ICQ: 179140304, AIM/Yahoo/Skype: michaelmeskes, Jabber: meskes@jabber.org VfL Borussia! Forca Barca! Go SF 49ers! Use: Debian GNU/Linux, PostgreSQL
Stefan Kaltenbrunner <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> writes:
> *sigh* - that was mostly ment as a joke and not a really serious
> comment. However the idea I actually had with BZ back in the days was
> not to use it as a full fledged tracker(in the sense of exposing it to
> users or developers)
> Instead I would just use it as the background engine that does nothing
> more than being subscribed to -bugs, tracks the stuff there and provides
> an summary export about (not)replied to reports. If somebody later on
> wants to annotate the emails/reports there (as in solved,open,moved to
> todo,not a pg core question,whatever) fine - if not fine as well :)
bugzilla doesn't really interface to email well enough to do that.
I gather that debbugs might work better, but I have no personal
experience with it.
regards, tom lane
Tom Lane wrote: > > bugzilla doesn't really interface to email well enough to do that. > I gather that debbugs might work better, but I have no personal > experience with it. > > 1. My recollection is that last time we looked the debbugs people themselves said they didn't think it was suitable for us. 2. IIRC there are at least some facilities (possibly using extra modules) for bugzilla <-> email integration. I haven't looked at it lately, however, so I don't know what the state of play is. I think Stefan got some good stuff working a couple of years ago. cheers andrew
Tom Lane wrote: > Stefan Kaltenbrunner <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> writes: >> *sigh* - that was mostly ment as a joke and not a really serious >> comment. However the idea I actually had with BZ back in the days was >> not to use it as a full fledged tracker(in the sense of exposing it to >> users or developers) >> Instead I would just use it as the background engine that does nothing >> more than being subscribed to -bugs, tracks the stuff there and provides >> an summary export about (not)replied to reports. If somebody later on >> wants to annotate the emails/reports there (as in solved,open,moved to >> todo,not a pg core question,whatever) fine - if not fine as well :) > > bugzilla doesn't really interface to email well enough to do that. > I gather that debbugs might work better, but I have no personal > experience with it. well recent bugzilla versions do have both an email interface (an early version of that was used in my prototype - the newer ones are much more powerful an can do) and an remote XML-RPC Interface (which I used for the bugform integration). As a pure email tracker with no real external apps debbugs is probably more powerful though (but not really used a lot outside of the debian project). Stefan
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 21:36, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote: > Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> writes: >> The first of these in particular is a fairly detailed report of what >> looks might be a fairly serious problem. > >> pg_listener entries deleted under heavy NOTIFY load only on Windows >> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2009-12/msg00274.php > > Yeah, that needs to be looked at by a Windows expert (ie not me). I missed that one. Will add to my list. >> BUG #5245: Full Server Certificate Chain Not Sent to client >> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2009-12/msg00145.php > > Not clear to me whether this is a bug, or at least our bug. It's not a bug, it's potentially a feature request :) > Isn't that behavior entirely openssl's to determine? No, I think we can control that somehow. Let's leave it on the open items list, and I'll try to find some time to investigate it. Since it's behavior change, it's probably 8.5 material, and not backpatch. Oh, and if somebody else has the time to investigate it, please be my guest :) -- Magnus HaganderMe: http://www.hagander.net/Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/
> 1. My recollection is that last time we looked the debbugs people > themselves said they didn't think it was suitable for us. You recall correctly. This was a discussion with some of the debbugs maintainers 2 years ago. --Josh Berkus
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote: >>> BUG #5245: Full Server Certificate Chain Not Sent to client >>> http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-bugs/2009-12/msg00145.php >> >> Not clear to me whether this is a bug, or at least our bug. > > It's not a bug, it's potentially a feature request :) > >> Isn't that behavior entirely openssl's to determine? > > No, I think we can control that somehow. > > Let's leave it on the open items list, and I'll try to find some time > to investigate it. Since it's behavior change, it's probably 8.5 > material, and not backpatch. Oh, and if somebody else has the time to > investigate it, please be my guest :) Magnus told me on IM today that he feels this should be reclassified as a Todo, so I'm going to move it there from open items. ...Robert