Thread: About the partial tarballs
Do we have any data on how many people download the partial tarballs (-base, -opt, etc.)? I have a feeling that more people are confused by them than use them. -- Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Do we have any data on how many people download the partial tarballs
> (-base, -opt, etc.)? I have a feeling that more people are confused by
> them than use them.
on ftp.postgresql.org itself, since June 4th:
2812 /var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.3/postgresql-7.3.3.tar.gz
1854 /var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.4/postgresql-7.3.4.tar.gz443
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.3/postgresql-base-7.3.3.tar.gz439
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.3/postgresql-docs-7.3.3.tar.gz402
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.2.4/postgresql-opt-7.2.4.tar.gz386
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.3/postgresql-opt-7.3.3.tar.gz384
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.2.4/postgresql-base-7.2.4.tar.gz289
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.3/postgresql-test-7.3.3.tar.gz267
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.2/postgresql-7.3.2.tar.gz246
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.4/postgresql-docs-7.3.4.tar.gz233
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.4/postgresql-base-7.3.4.tar.gz195
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.4/postgresql-opt-7.3.4.tar.gz177
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.4/postgresql-test-7.3.4.tar.gz168
/var/spool/ftp/pub/dev/postgresql-opt-snapshot.tar.gz166
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.2.2/postgresql-base-7.2.2.tar.gz165
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.2.2/postgresql-opt-7.2.2.tar.gz162
/var/spool/ftp/pub/dev/postgresql-test-snapshot.tar.gz151/var/spool/ftp/pub/dev/postgresql-snapshot.tar.gz136
/var/spool/ftp/pub/dev/postgresql-docs-snapshot.tar.gz127/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.2.4/postgresql-7.2.4.tar.gz100
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.2.1/postgresql-7.2.1.tar.gz96 /var/spool/ftp/pub/dev/postgresql-base-snapshot.tar.gz 67
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.2.3/postgresql-7.2.3.tar.gz48 /var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.2.1/postgresql-opt-7.2.1.tar.gz
45/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.2.1/postgresql-docs-7.2.1.tar.gz 45
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.2.1/postgresql-base-7.2.1.tar.gz41
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.1.3/postgresql-7.1.3.tar.gz36 /var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3/postgresql-7.3.tar.gz 35
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.4/postgresql-7.4beta1.tar.bz231 /var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.4/postgresql-7.4beta1.tar.gz
31/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.2/postgresql-base-7.3.2.tar.gz 31
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.2.2/postgresql-7.2.2.tar.gz29 /var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.4/postgresql-7.4beta3.tar.gz 28
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.4/postgresql-7.4beta4.tar.gz27 /var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.4/postgresql-7.4beta4.tar.bz2
27/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.2/postgresql-docs-7.3.2.tar.gz 27
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.1/postgresql-7.3.1.tar.gz22 /var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.4/postgresql-7.4beta2.tar.bz2
21/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.4/postgresql-7.4beta3.tar.bz2 21 /var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.2/postgresql-7.2.tar.gz 20
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.4/postgresql-7.4beta2.tar.gz19 /var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.4/postgresql-7.4beta5.tar.bz2
19/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.2/postgresql-test-7.3.2.tar.gz 19
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.3.2/postgresql-opt-7.3.2.tar.gz18
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.4/postgresql-7.4beta5.tar.gz17
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.4/postgresql-docs-7.4beta1.tar.bz216
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.4/postgresql-docs-7.4beta4.tar.gz15
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.4/postgresql-docs-7.4beta3.tar.gz15
/var/spool/ftp/pub/source/v7.1.3/postgresql-docs-7.1.3.tar.gz
Note that, in the case of FreeBSD ports, they download only base and opt:
PORTNAME?= postgresql
PORTVERSION?= 7.3.4
PORTREVISION= 1
CATEGORIES?= databases
MASTER_SITES= ${MASTER_SITE_PGSQL}
MASTER_SITE_SUBDIR= source/v${PORTVERSION}
DISTFILES= postgresql-base-${PORTVERSION}${EXTRACT_SUFX} \
postgresql-opt-${PORTVERSION}${EXTRACT_SUFX}
ignoring the rest ... which was the original intent of the split, to
reduce the amount that needs to be downloaded, as well as reduce what
needs to be re-downloaded on a failed download ...
Marc G. Fournier writes: > > Do we have any data on how many people download the partial tarballs > > (-base, -opt, etc.)? I have a feeling that more people are confused by > > them than use them. > > on ftp.postgresql.org itself, since June 4th: Interesting. Note that in most cases people download the -base tarball less often than the other ones, at best just as often as the other ones. This seems to indicate that people appear to want everything and they are confused about what they need to download. > Note that, in the case of FreeBSD ports, they download only base and opt: They don't install the documentation??? How is that a good idea? -- Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > Marc G. Fournier writes: > > > > Do we have any data on how many people download the partial tarballs > > > (-base, -opt, etc.)? I have a feeling that more people are confused by > > > them than use them. > > > > on ftp.postgresql.org itself, since June 4th: > > Interesting. Note that in most cases people download the -base tarball > less often than the other ones, at best just as often as the other ones. > This seems to indicate that people appear to want everything and they are > confused about what they need to download. I think a good README file explaining this would be good ... again, where packages are concerned, there are no questions ... but, explaining to someone that if they need, say, just the psql command, they only need to download -base and -opt, that same downloading ~3.5Meg worth of files that they don't need ... As for docs ... if someone wants to download the docs, but doesn't need any of the source (ie. someone is using PostgreSQL off of a remote server, but would like the docs local), having to download 11Meg to get 2.6Meg worth of docs is quite excessive ... > > > Note that, in the case of FreeBSD ports, they download only base and opt: > > They don't install the documentation??? How is that a good idea? I never install documentation, I always go to http://www.postgresql.org *shrug* But, FreeBSD ports has: svr1# ls -ld databases/postgresql-* drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 512 Nov 1 04:25 databases/postgresql-client drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 512 Sep 27 04:24 databases/postgresql-contrib drwxr-xr-x 6 root wheel 512 Jul 26 04:31 databases/postgresql-devel drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 512 Jul 26 04:31 databases/postgresql-docs drwxr-xr-x 6 root wheel 512 Jul 26 04:31 databases/postgresql-jdbc drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 512 Jul 26 04:31 databases/postgresql-libpq++ drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 512 Jul 26 04:31 databases/postgresql-libpqxx drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 512 Jul 26 04:31 databases/postgresql-odbc drwxr-xr-x 6 root wheel 512 Jul 26 04:31 databases/postgresql-plruby drwxr-xr-x 4 root wheel 512 Jul 26 04:31 databases/postgresql-pltcl drwxr-xr-x 6 root wheel 512 Jul 26 04:31 databases/postgresql-tcltk databases/postgresql-docs just downloads and installs the docs ... the other postgresql-* ports, where those packages are still part of the main tar ball, only need base/opt to build, and so that's all it downloads ...
On Tue, 2003-11-11 at 14:29, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > Marc G. Fournier writes: > > > > Do we have any data on how many people download the partial tarballs > > > (-base, -opt, etc.)? I have a feeling that more people are confused by > > > them than use them. > > > > on ftp.postgresql.org itself, since June 4th: > > Interesting. Note that in most cases people download the -base tarball > less often than the other ones, at best just as often as the other ones. > This seems to indicate that people appear to want everything and they are > confused about what they need to download. > > > Note that, in the case of FreeBSD ports, they download only base and opt: > > They don't install the documentation??? How is that a good idea? FreeBSD (Sean?) split PostgreSQL into several ports so you can pick only the parts (or release) you want. There is a specific -docs port. postgresql-client postgresql-jdbc postgresql-plruby postgresql72 postgresql-contrib postgresql-libpq++ postgresql-pltcl postgresql_autodoc postgresql-devel postgresql-libpqxx postgresql-tcltk postgresql-docs postgresql-odbc postgresql7
On 11 Nov 2003, at 20:44, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > Do we have any data on how many people download the partial tarballs > (-base, -opt, etc.)? I have a feeling that more people are confused by > them than use them. Even if they weren't useful for anything else, I think there's value in the developers having to consider what is optional and what is not. This need for constant review probably reduces the chance of bloat, over time even in the full tarball. I agree that the partial tarballs can confuse an ftp user, though. I think a good solution to this would be to put them one level deeper, into a subfolder. The full tarball would then be the only thing a casual user would encounter, but the source-based port systems could still benefit from the partial tarballs. mk
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Marko Karppinen wrote: > I agree that the partial tarballs can confuse an ftp user, though. I > think a good solution to this would be to put them one level deeper, > into a subfolder. The full tarball would then be the only thing a casual > user would encounter, but the source-based port systems could still > benefit from the partial tarballs. I don't agree, but if you can suggest improved working to: ftp://ftp.postgresql.org/pub/README.dist-split to reduce the confusion, that would be great. I've just symlink'd it into the source directories as the .message, so that its displays when you enter the directory ...
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > ftp://ftp.postgresql.org/pub/README.dist-split > > to reduce the confusion, that would be great. I've just symlink'd it into > the source directories as the .message, so that its displays when you > enter the directory ... Does anyone actually read those messages? Similar sort of question to the 'Does anyone read any of those popup boxes produced by everything in Windows before hitting "OK"?' one. -- Nigel J. Andrews
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Nigel J. Andrews wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Nov 2003, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > ftp://ftp.postgresql.org/pub/README.dist-split > > > > to reduce the confusion, that would be great. I've just symlink'd it into > > the source directories as the .message, so that its displays when you > > enter the directory ... > > Does anyone actually read those messages? > > Similar sort of question to the 'Does anyone read any of those popup boxes > produced by everything in Windows before hitting "OK"?' one. You don't read those popup boxes? I don't read the 15 page license agreements, but the short popup boxes, I do
> Even if they weren't useful for anything else, I think there's value in the > developers having to consider what is optional and what is not. This need > for constant review probably reduces the chance of bloat, over time even > in the full tarball. How about dropping the partial tarballs and using the space savings to distribute a .tar.bz2 archive as well. Chris
On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: > > Even if they weren't useful for anything else, I think there's value in the > > developers having to consider what is optional and what is not. This need > > for constant review probably reduces the chance of bloat, over time even > > in the full tarball. > > How about dropping the partial tarballs and using the space savings to > distribute a .tar.bz2 archive as well. We already do ... started with beta1 of 7.4 ...