Thread: Re: [GENERAL] Is there a shortage of postgresql skilled ops people
Marc,
I forwarded your message to pgsql-advocacy list.
The same situation in Russia ! I think, that the major problem here is
lack of "official" training courses on PostgreSQL and certificates.
"Official" mean something that was accepted by the PostgreSQL community.
This is a real pity, since we (developers) are working on adding nice
features, making porting popular software solutions to PostgreSQL easier,
but there are no certified postgresql admins available on market.
For example, I and Teodor last year participated in porting of very
popular accounting enterprize solution from MS SQL to PostgreSQL and
there are about 800,000 installations already, so in principle, we have
big market, but people needed to be educated and certified, so company
could decide to switch from MS SQL to PostgreSQL.
Probably, it's time to sponsor our book-writers and other enthusiasts
to write "PostgreSQL Administration handbook", which we (community) will
accept, support and translate to different languages. I'm willing
to contribute "Full Text Search" chapter, for example. AFAIK, we have enough
people, already wrote PostgreSQL books. I like Corry's book, for example.
I don't know how much it might costs, but I'm sure community has money for this.
As for certificates, I see no real problem. We need to design nice
certificate, translate to different languages, publish on www.postgresql and
approve a list of people, who can sign certificate. We have many members of
our community in different regions/countries, so this is not a problem.
btw, probably, this project could be a nice introducing for PostgreSQL EU.
Oleg
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007, Marc Evans wrote:
> Hello -
>
> Over the past couple of years I have made use of postgresql as my database of
> choice when developing new software. During that time, my clients have in
> multiple cases eventually come back to me and requested a re-targeting to
> "Any database that we (my client) can find skilled ops staff to support." In
> a most recent case, professional recruiters were employed to try to find such
> people. The search was disappointing at best.
>
> My question for this community is, what do enterprises that you deploy
> postgresql within do for skilled operations staffing? I can understand trying
> to convert a mysql or Oracle person to work on postgresql, but it would be
> very helpful to have a potential talent pool to draw from that was similar to
> those others. Finding people with HA, scaling and performance tuning
> knowledge is something that seems impossible to find except in people wanting
> to be developers.
>
> The sad reality from what I have observed is that unless more people gain
> those skills and want to work in ops, it's becoming very hard for me to
> justify recommending postgresql for enterprise (or larger) scale projects.
>
> What do others do and/or experience?
>
> Thanks in advance - Marc
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
>
Regards,
Oleg
_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru),
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia
Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83
On 3/27/07, Oleg Bartunov <oleg@sai.msu.su> wrote: > Marc, > I forwarded your message to pgsql-advocacy list. > > The same situation in Russia ! I think, that the major problem here is > lack of "official" training courses on PostgreSQL and certificates. > "Official" mean something that was accepted by the PostgreSQL community. > This is a real pity, since we (developers) are working on adding nice > features, making porting popular software solutions to PostgreSQL easier, > but there are no certified postgresql admins available on market. > For example, I and Teodor last year participated in porting of very > popular accounting enterprize solution from MS SQL to PostgreSQL and > there are about 800,000 installations already, so in principle, we have > big market, but people needed to be educated and certified, so company > could decide to switch from MS SQL to PostgreSQL. > > Probably, it's time to sponsor our book-writers and other enthusiasts > to write "PostgreSQL Administration handbook", which we (community) will > accept, support and translate to different languages. I'm willing > to contribute "Full Text Search" chapter, for example. AFAIK, we have enough > people, already wrote PostgreSQL books. I like Corry's book, for example. > I don't know how much it might costs, but I'm sure community has money for this. > > As for certificates, I see no real problem. We need to design nice > certificate, translate to different languages, publish on www.postgresql and > approve a list of people, who can sign certificate. We have many members of > our community in different regions/countries, so this is not a problem. > > btw, probably, this project could be a nice introducing for PostgreSQL EU. > Hi Oleg, I agree with your question. I've just sent a message that question about the official certification from postgresql.org on the advocacy list. I hope that the european group can discuss about this important question and eventually create an european relationship structure (maybe at pgday ;) . Regards Federico
Oleg Bartunov wrote: > Probably, it's time to sponsor our book-writers and other enthusiasts > to write "PostgreSQL Administration handbook", which we (community) > will accept, support and translate to different languages. http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/admin.html -- Peter Eisentraut http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/
Peter Eisentraut wrote: > Oleg Bartunov wrote: >> Probably, it's time to sponsor our book-writers and other enthusiasts >> to write "PostgreSQL Administration handbook", which we (community) >> will accept, support and translate to different languages. > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/admin.html > With all kudos to that link, that is not a handbook it is a reference. Joshua D. Drake -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate PostgreSQL Replication: http://www.commandprompt.com/products/
Joshua D. Drake wrote: > Peter Eisentraut wrote: > > Oleg Bartunov wrote: > >> Probably, it's time to sponsor our book-writers and other enthusiasts > >> to write "PostgreSQL Administration handbook", which we (community) > >> will accept, support and translate to different languages. > > > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/admin.html > > > > With all kudos to that link, that is not a handbook it is a reference. Well, there is a lot of descriptive text in the admin section. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > Oleg Bartunov wrote: >> Probably, it's time to sponsor our book-writers and other enthusiasts >> to write "PostgreSQL Administration handbook", which we (community) >> will accept, support and translate to different languages. > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/admin.html Thanks, I know it. I meant sort of training program. Regards, Oleg _____________________________________________________________ Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru), Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> Peter Eisentraut wrote: >>> Oleg Bartunov wrote: >>>> Probably, it's time to sponsor our book-writers and other enthusiasts >>>> to write "PostgreSQL Administration handbook", which we (community) >>>> will accept, support and translate to different languages. >>> >>> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/admin.html >>> >> >> With all kudos to that link, that is not a handbook it is a reference. > > Well, there is a lot of descriptive text in the admin section. Lecturers should know better, but I think training course should include control questions, the order of lecturers, how much time should be enough to learn a lesson well, practical tasks, etc. This is what people expects. admin.html is a good foundation, of course. We need better illustration, on the whole, everything which makes courses professional (I'm not a specialist, sorry). My young colleagues (Nikolay and Ivan) are trying to setup Pgsql master class and spent several days to create training live cd, which is a good idea. Regards, Oleg _____________________________________________________________ Oleg Bartunov, Research Scientist, Head of AstroNet (www.astronet.ru), Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University, Russia Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(495)939-16-83, +007(495)939-23-83
Oleg Bartunov wrote: > On Tue, 27 Mar 2007, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > Joshua D. Drake wrote: > >> Peter Eisentraut wrote: > >>> Oleg Bartunov wrote: > >>>> Probably, it's time to sponsor our book-writers and other enthusiasts > >>>> to write "PostgreSQL Administration handbook", which we (community) > >>>> will accept, support and translate to different languages. > >>> > >>> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/admin.html > >>> > >> > >> With all kudos to that link, that is not a handbook it is a reference. > > > > Well, there is a lot of descriptive text in the admin section. > > Lecturers should know better, but I think training course should include > control questions, the order of lecturers, how much time should be > enough to learn a lesson well, practical tasks, etc. This is what people > expects. admin.html is a good foundation, of course. We need better > illustration, on the whole, everything which makes courses professional > (I'm not a specialist, sorry). My young colleagues (Nikolay and Ivan) > are trying to setup Pgsql master class and spent several days to create > training live cd, which is a good idea. My point is that the admin manual is more than a reference, not that the admin manual is a _training_ manual. -- Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> http://momjian.us EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +