Thread: Updating Ubuntu package info
Problem #1: If you visit http://www.pgadmin.org/download/ , you'll discover there's no link to any Ubuntu support listed there. Problem #2: If you manage to find http://www.pgadmin.org/download/ubuntu.php anyway, it's only got current information up to Ubuntu Gusty, which is pretty old now. That part I can write a document to include there if someone wants to update the text: ===== For Ubuntu versions Dapper, Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty, Koala, and Lynx, Ubuntu packages are maintained by Gerfried Fuchs. The versions available for each release are listed on the package's page at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pgadmin3 In order to install one of these packages, do the following: 1) Launch System/Administration/Synaptic Package Manager 2) Select Settings/Repositories 3) On the "Ubuntu Software" tab, make sure "Community-maintained Open Source software (universe) is checked 4) Close that section and follow the directions to reload the available packages 5) Now if you do a "Quick search" for pgadmin, you'll see the 3 packages there. Choose to install the main pgadmin3 package and the other two (that it depends on) will also be installed. ===== Problem #3: Given the general popularity of Ubuntu and what I'm seeing in the version history here, I think it would also be appropriate to warn that versions of pgAdmin3 before the upcoming 1.12 do not support connecting to PostgreSQL 9.0 databases (the '"column "datconfig" does not exist' issue) on this page too. Even Ubuntu Lynx coming in March seems likely to release with pgAdmin3 1.10. I think somebody (and I'm getting that feeling it's going to be me) should figure out how to build a backport of the pgadmin HEAD that goes at least a couple of versions back to help out with this. I personally really need a PG9.0 compatible Jaunty build for example. Am I correct that nobody besides Gerfried is building these Ubuntu packages right now, to provide a head start on things from where I'm sitting at? I think I can fork his Launchpad project and then hack up a backport of any required patches; just a matter of finding enough time to do it, given that this is new territory for me--I only build RPMs myself most days. -- Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant US Baltimore, MD PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support greg@2ndQuadrant.com www.2ndQuadrant.us
Le 04/02/2010 04:23, Greg Smith a écrit : > Problem #1: If you visit http://www.pgadmin.org/download/ , you'll > discover there's no link to any Ubuntu support listed there. > It was removed a few months ago, because no one could handle them anymore. > Problem #2: If you manage to find > http://www.pgadmin.org/download/ubuntu.php anyway, it's only got current > information up to Ubuntu Gusty, which is pretty old now. That part I > can write a document to include there if someone wants to update the text: > > ===== > > For Ubuntu versions Dapper, Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty, Koala, and Lynx, > Ubuntu packages are maintained by Gerfried Fuchs. The versions > available for each release are listed on the package's page at > https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pgadmin3 > > In order to install one of these packages, do the following: > > 1) Launch System/Administration/Synaptic Package Manager > 2) Select Settings/Repositories > 3) On the "Ubuntu Software" tab, make sure "Community-maintained Open > Source software (universe) is checked > 4) Close that section and follow the directions to reload the available > packages > 5) Now if you do a "Quick search" for pgadmin, you'll see the 3 packages > there. Choose to install the main pgadmin3 package and the other two > (that it depends on) will also be installed. > > ===== > I can do that tonight, unless Dave works on it before. > Problem #3: Given the general popularity of Ubuntu and what I'm seeing > in the version history here, I think it would also be appropriate to > warn that versions of pgAdmin3 before the upcoming 1.12 do not support > connecting to PostgreSQL 9.0 databases (the '"column "datconfig" does > not exist' issue) on this page too. We can do that. That's not something we usually do, this kind of issue happens for every release of PostgreSQL and pgAdmin. You need the latest major pgAdmin release to work with the latest major PostgreSQL release. Moreover, since 1.10, they even have a message box telling the user than PostgreSQL releases after 8.4 could be incompatible with their pgAdmin release. 1.12 will have the same for post-9.0 releases. > Even Ubuntu Lynx coming in March seems likely to release with pgAdmin3 1.10. And I hope so. Next release is still in alpha stage, it would be quite stupid for them to publish a release not yet available (I do know they do it sometime, but, AFAICT, they use beta release... we are not even in beta). If PostgreSQL 9.0 beta is released in two months, they won't have a pgAdmin 1.12 beta. > I think somebody (and I'm > getting that feeling it's going to be me) should figure out how to build > a backport of the pgadmin HEAD that goes at least a couple of versions > back to help out with this. I personally really need a PG9.0 compatible > Jaunty build for example. > I can tell you that this "someone" is not me. I don't have the time to work on this. If you want to work on this, I think the main issue you'll encounter is to get a current wxWidgets release. You need at least 2.8.8 on Linux IIRC. 2.8.11 (released last week IIRC) would be great but not required. > Am I correct that nobody besides Gerfried is building these Ubuntu > packages right now, to provide a head start on things from where I'm > sitting at? You're definitely right. > I think I can fork his Launchpad project and then hack up a > backport of any required patches; just a matter of finding enough time > to do it, given that this is new territory for me--I only build RPMs > myself most days. > I would definititely love to see this happening. Just remember that you'll probably need to also have a backport of wxWidgets on older Ubuntu releases. -- Guillaume.http://www.postgresqlfr.orghttp://dalibo.com
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 09:06, Guillaume Lelarge <guillaume@lelarge.info> wrote: > Le 04/02/2010 04:23, Greg Smith a écrit : >> Problem #3: Given the general popularity of Ubuntu and what I'm seeing >> in the version history here, I think it would also be appropriate to >> warn that versions of pgAdmin3 before the upcoming 1.12 do not support >> connecting to PostgreSQL 9.0 databases (the '"column "datconfig" does >> not exist' issue) on this page too. > > We can do that. That's not something we usually do, this kind of issue > happens for every release of PostgreSQL and pgAdmin. You need the latest > major pgAdmin release to work with the latest major PostgreSQL release. > Moreover, since 1.10, they even have a message box telling the user than > PostgreSQL releases after 8.4 could be incompatible with their pgAdmin > release. 1.12 will have the same for post-9.0 releases. I think this one may be big enough to consider backpatching just this one check. Not for Ubuntu, but for users in general :-) IIRC it's the first time we die so completely and early - previously at least some things would work fine :) However, do we know if Ubuntu even picks up the minor releases? >> I think somebody (and I'm >> getting that feeling it's going to be me) should figure out how to build >> a backport of the pgadmin HEAD that goes at least a couple of versions >> back to help out with this. I personally really need a PG9.0 compatible >> Jaunty build for example. >> > > I can tell you that this "someone" is not me. I don't have the time to > work on this. Yeah. Having a "pgadmin-daily" PPA for Ubuntu would certainly be pretty neat, but so far nobody has volunteered the time... -- Magnus HaganderMe: http://www.hagander.net/Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote: > On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 09:06, Guillaume Lelarge <guillaume@lelarge.info> wrote: >> Le 04/02/2010 04:23, Greg Smith a écrit : >>> Problem #3: Given the general popularity of Ubuntu and what I'm seeing >>> in the version history here, I think it would also be appropriate to >>> warn that versions of pgAdmin3 before the upcoming 1.12 do not support >>> connecting to PostgreSQL 9.0 databases (the '"column "datconfig" does >>> not exist' issue) on this page too. >> >> We can do that. That's not something we usually do, this kind of issue >> happens for every release of PostgreSQL and pgAdmin. You need the latest >> major pgAdmin release to work with the latest major PostgreSQL release. >> Moreover, since 1.10, they even have a message box telling the user than >> PostgreSQL releases after 8.4 could be incompatible with their pgAdmin >> release. 1.12 will have the same for post-9.0 releases. > > I think this one may be big enough to consider backpatching just this one check. > > Not for Ubuntu, but for users in general :-) IIRC it's the first time > we die so completely and early - previously at least some things would > work fine :) > > However, do we know if Ubuntu even picks up the minor releases? We don't produce minor releases of old versions so backpatching seems a little pointless. >>> I think somebody (and I'm >>> getting that feeling it's going to be me) should figure out how to build >>> a backport of the pgadmin HEAD that goes at least a couple of versions >>> back to help out with this. I personally really need a PG9.0 compatible >>> Jaunty build for example. >>> >> >> I can tell you that this "someone" is not me. I don't have the time to >> work on this. > > Yeah. Having a "pgadmin-daily" PPA for Ubuntu would certainly be > pretty neat, but so far nobody has volunteered the time... The one thing we don't want is a vendor patched version of pgAdmin getting out there. Older versions of Ubuntu (and to a lesser extent Debian) caused us extreme amounts of pain due to vendor patches in wx that basically broke it. I don't want them doing the same with our code, no matter how simple the patch may seem I don't object to a snapshot build if someone wants to do that though. -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:16, Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote: > On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote: >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 09:06, Guillaume Lelarge <guillaume@lelarge.info> wrote: >>> Le 04/02/2010 04:23, Greg Smith a écrit : >>>> Problem #3: Given the general popularity of Ubuntu and what I'm seeing >>>> in the version history here, I think it would also be appropriate to >>>> warn that versions of pgAdmin3 before the upcoming 1.12 do not support >>>> connecting to PostgreSQL 9.0 databases (the '"column "datconfig" does >>>> not exist' issue) on this page too. >>> >>> We can do that. That's not something we usually do, this kind of issue >>> happens for every release of PostgreSQL and pgAdmin. You need the latest >>> major pgAdmin release to work with the latest major PostgreSQL release. >>> Moreover, since 1.10, they even have a message box telling the user than >>> PostgreSQL releases after 8.4 could be incompatible with their pgAdmin >>> release. 1.12 will have the same for post-9.0 releases. >> >> I think this one may be big enough to consider backpatching just this one check. >> >> Not for Ubuntu, but for users in general :-) IIRC it's the first time >> we die so completely and early - previously at least some things would >> work fine :) >> >> However, do we know if Ubuntu even picks up the minor releases? > > We don't produce minor releases of old versions so backpatching seems > a little pointless. We still produce minor releases to 1.10, no? I certainly don't suggest we back-patch past that, but we do backpatch to the *latest* stable branch. >>>> I think somebody (and I'm >>>> getting that feeling it's going to be me) should figure out how to build >>>> a backport of the pgadmin HEAD that goes at least a couple of versions >>>> back to help out with this. I personally really need a PG9.0 compatible >>>> Jaunty build for example. >>>> >>> >>> I can tell you that this "someone" is not me. I don't have the time to >>> work on this. >> >> Yeah. Having a "pgadmin-daily" PPA for Ubuntu would certainly be >> pretty neat, but so far nobody has volunteered the time... > > The one thing we don't want is a vendor patched version of pgAdmin > getting out there. Older versions of Ubuntu (and to a lesser extent > Debian) caused us extreme amounts of pain due to vendor patches in wx > that basically broke it. I don't want them doing the same with our > code, no matter how simple the patch may seem Yeah, +1. Certainly don't want that. But I don't think that's what Gregs suggesting. -- Magnus HaganderMe: http://www.hagander.net/Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote: > We still produce minor releases to 1.10, no? I certainly don't suggest > we back-patch past that, but we do backpatch to the *latest* stable > branch. Right - but 1.10 already checks the maximum and minimum supported version numbers and warns the user if they're outside that range. > Yeah, +1. Certainly don't want that. But I don't think that's what > Gregs suggesting. No, but I just want to be clear on that point :-) -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
Dave Page wrote: > On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote: > >> We still produce minor releases to 1.10, no? I certainly don't suggest >> we back-patch past that, but we do backpatch to the *latest* stable >> branch. >> > > Right - but 1.10 already checks the maximum and minimum supported > version numbers and warns the user if they're outside that range. > Yes, but that doesn't make the user very happy--just better informed about why they're dead in the water. I'd hate to see the next Long-Term support version of Debian and Ubuntu, both likely to hang around a while, have versions of pgAdmin that are fundamentally incompatible with the next PG version, due in only a few months. Seems bad from an advocacy perspective. And it looks like that's exactly how it's going to play out unless something gets done very soon here, which I just realized myself today. Obviously backpatching past 1.10 is silly. There seem to be three potentially useful ideas that would improve the state of this part of the world: 1) The documentation update I already suggested, bringing the Ubuntu page back to current and then reasonable to link on the main download section again. 2) Backpatch basic 9.0 support into a V1.10.2 release. That could work like this: a) Release 1.10.2 with this fix ASAP--if that can't happen within a week or less, the rest of what I'm suggesting is probably dead. b) Ask Gerfried to update Debian Squeeze testing to use that version. Their deadline is March so this should just happen in time. c) Try to get the Ubuntu Lynx distribution to pull that one instead of the currently planned one before the "LTSDebianImportFreeze" on February 11th, or if that's just missed apply for an exception and try to pull it in just before the more serious freeze on February 18. 3) Add a new PPA that builds from the daily snapshots, or (if V1.10.2 is released) from that one instead. Doing just (3) is probably sufficient to make my problems go away, and now that I know nobody else has that on their radar I'll start looking into it. Now that I realize the scope of the problem here, it would be nice to consider a broader plan too. Anybody know Gerfried well enough to ping for his opinion here? -- Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant Baltimore, MD PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support greg@2ndQuadrant.com www.2ndQuadrant.com
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Greg Smith <greg@2ndquadrant.com> wrote: > Yes, but that doesn't make the user very happy--just better informed about > why they're dead in the water. I'd hate to see the next Long-Term support > version of Debian and Ubuntu, both likely to hang around a while, have > versions of pgAdmin that are fundamentally incompatible with the next PG > version, due in only a few months. Seems bad from an advocacy perspective. > And it looks like that's exactly how it's going to play out unless > something gets done very soon here, which I just realized myself today. pgAdmin 1.12 will be released before, or with PostgreSQL 9.0, so there won't be a version of Ubuntu shipping with an incompatible PostgreSQL and pgAdmin combination. That's how we've done it for the last 10 years or so. > Obviously backpatching past 1.10 is silly. There seem to be three > potentially useful ideas that would improve the state of this part of the > world: > > 1) The documentation update I already suggested, bringing the Ubuntu page > back to current and then reasonable to link on the main download section > again. > 2) Backpatch basic 9.0 support into a V1.10.2 release. That could work like > this: > > a) Release 1.10.2 with this fix ASAP--if that can't happen within a week or > less, the rest of what I'm suggesting is probably dead. There is zero chance I'll have time to produce a release in a week. I leave for Brussels tomorrow as do most of the rest of the active developers, and have a full calendar next week. Besides, there are far more changes required than just fixing one query - more so than we'd ever consider back porting, even if you did ignore the 9.0 feature enhancements. Off-the-top-of-the-head examples include: role/database GUC storage has completely changed and pg_trigger.tgiscontrainst is replaced by pg_trigger.tgconstraint (which has a slightly different meaning). > Doing just (3) is probably sufficient to make my problems go away, and now > that I know nobody else has that on their radar I'll start looking into it. I'm perfectly happy with that option. > Now that I realize the scope of the problem here, it would be nice to > consider a broader plan too. Anybody know Gerfried well enough to ping for > his opinion here? Don't know him at all. -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
Dave Page wrote: > pgAdmin 1.12 will be released before, or with PostgreSQL 9.0, so there > won't be a version of Ubuntu shipping with an incompatible PostgreSQL > and pgAdmin combination. That's how we've done it for the last 10 > years or so. > I got that part already. My thought was just that were it possible to include a trivial fix and backport something that's beyond completely broken into 1.10, that might be worth doing. Now that I see your list of additional issues here I see why that's not practical even if resources were available, which they aren't. So it sounds like everybody who has an opinion here would like me to build a PPA of the current development snapshot on at least some semi-regular interval. To follow Ubuntu guidelines, I should use a version number between the official ones and what is expected to be used in the next major release. I believe we'll see: Lucid Lynx 10.4: pgadmin3_1.10.1-1 Masturbating Minx 10.10: pgadmin3_1.12.X-1 (I swear, it's on the possible codename list!) So the PPAs I build should be pgadmin3_1.11.1-1~ppa1 I think. That would be accepted as an upgrade to anyone who adds my PPA, but rejected by anyone who already has the official 1.12 once a version including that is released. That seems to be how this project is coding its versions too, right? Only serious issue I heard Guillaume raise is this: "If you want to work on this, I think the main issue you'll encounter is to get a current wxWidgets release. You need at least 2.8.8 on Linux IIRC. 2.8.11 (released last week IIRC) would be great but not required." That breaks down like this: Hardy: 2.8.7.1 ; won't support Intrepid: 2.8.8.0; might get lucky and this works, sounds a little close to the edge here. Jaunty: 2.8.9.1. This is my main target, so fine here Karmic: 2.8.10.1 Lucid: 2.8.10.1 That would make the target support list: Dapper, Fesity: V1.6.3 from pgAdmin site Gutsy: V1.8.0 from pgAdmin site Hardy: V1.8.2 from Ubuntu universe, possible PPA version too but not going to push it if there's problems Intrepid: V1.8.4 from Ubuntu universe, V1.11.0 PPA Jaunty: V1.8.4 from Ubuntu universe, V1.11.0 PPA Karmic: V1.10 from Ubuntu universe, V1.11.0 PPA Lucid: V1.10.1 from Ubuntu universe, V1.11.0 PPA Minx: V1.12.1 from Ubuntu universe (hopefully) -- Greg Smith 2ndQuadrant Baltimore, MD PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support greg@2ndQuadrant.com www.2ndQuadrant.com
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Greg Smith <greg@2ndquadrant.com> wrote: > So it sounds like everybody who has an opinion here would like me to build a > PPA of the current development snapshot on at least some semi-regular > interval. To follow Ubuntu guidelines, I should use a version number > between the official ones and what is expected to be used in the next major > release. I believe we'll see: > > Lucid Lynx 10.4: pgadmin3_1.10.1-1 > Masturbating Minx 10.10: pgadmin3_1.12.X-1 (I swear, it's on the > possible codename list!) > > So the PPAs I build should be pgadmin3_1.11.1-1~ppa1 I think. That would be > accepted as an upgrade to anyone who adds my PPA, but rejected by anyone who > already has the official 1.12 once a version including that is released. > That seems to be how this project is coding its versions too, right? Odd minor versions a dev versions. So you'll be building 1.11.0-1, 1.11.0-2, 1.11.1-1 and so on. We can coordinate with you and bump the version numbers in SVN, as well as tag releases. Thanks! -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
Le 04/02/2010 18:30, Greg Smith a écrit : > Dave Page wrote: >> pgAdmin 1.12 will be released before, or with PostgreSQL 9.0, so there >> won't be a version of Ubuntu shipping with an incompatible PostgreSQL >> and pgAdmin combination. That's how we've done it for the last 10 >> years or so. >> > > I got that part already. My thought was just that were it possible to > include a trivial fix and backport something that's beyond completely > broken into 1.10, that might be worth doing. Now that I see your list > of additional issues here I see why that's not practical even if > resources were available, which they aren't. > > So it sounds like everybody who has an opinion here would like me to > build a PPA of the current development snapshot on at least some > semi-regular interval. To follow Ubuntu guidelines, I should use a > version number between the official ones and what is expected to be used > in the next major release. I believe we'll see: > > Lucid Lynx 10.4: pgadmin3_1.10.1-1 > Masturbating Minx 10.10: pgadmin3_1.12.X-1 (I swear, it's on the > possible codename list!) > lol, the best codename I ever heard :) > So the PPAs I build should be pgadmin3_1.11.1-1~ppa1 I think. That > would be accepted as an upgrade to anyone who adds my PPA, but rejected > by anyone who already has the official 1.12 once a version including > that is released. That seems to be how this project is coding its > versions too, right? > > Only serious issue I heard Guillaume raise is this: > > "If you want to work on this, I think the main issue you'll encounter is > to get a current wxWidgets release. You need at least 2.8.8 on Linux > IIRC. 2.8.11 (released last week IIRC) would be great but not required." > > That breaks down like this: > > Hardy: 2.8.7.1 ; won't support > Intrepid: 2.8.8.0; might get lucky and this works, sounds a little > close to the edge here. After a little search on pgadmin-support (thread "Weird Popup Menus - pgAdmin 1.8.4"), I better remember the issue. The shortcuts in menu were badly displayed on GTK. I sent them a patch, that they applied for the 2.8.8 release. So, Intrepid should be fine. It also means pgAdmin won't crash. But shortcuts would appear quite weird (like this "F_ile"). > Jaunty: 2.8.9.1. This is my main target, so fine here > Karmic: 2.8.10.1 > Lucid: 2.8.10.1 > Sure. > That would make the target support list: > > Dapper, Fesity: V1.6.3 from pgAdmin site > Gutsy: V1.8.0 from pgAdmin site > Hardy: V1.8.2 from Ubuntu universe, possible PPA version too but not > going to push it if there's problems > Intrepid: V1.8.4 from Ubuntu universe, V1.11.0 PPA > Jaunty: V1.8.4 from Ubuntu universe, V1.11.0 PPA > Karmic: V1.10 from Ubuntu universe, V1.11.0 PPA > Lucid: V1.10.1 from Ubuntu universe, V1.11.0 PPA > Minx: V1.12.1 from Ubuntu universe (hopefully) > 1.11 in PPA would be great. I only use the devel release I compile, but I know a few users that will be pleased with it. Thanks. -- Guillaume.http://www.postgresqlfr.orghttp://dalibo.com