Re: [pgadmin-support] making me love pgAdmin III - Mailing list pgadmin-support

Am 19.05.2017 um 10:04 schrieb Dave Page:
> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Tomek <tomek@apostata.org> wrote:
>> 18 maja 2017 22:43 - "Dave Page" <dpage@pgadmin.org>:
>>
>>> On 18 May 2017, at 21:09, Eric Hill <Eric.Hill@jmp.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey,
>>>>
>>>> I don’t mean to hurt anyone’s feelings or anything, but is it not obvious to everyone that pgAdmin
>>>> 4 (I have version 1.4) is bloody horrendous? It is absolutely as slow as Christmas. It’s use of
>>>> screen real-estate is poor. I was never a huge fan of pgAdmin III; I mean, it seemed to do its job
>>>> okay, but after using pgAdmin 4, suddenly I have newfound respect for pgAdmin III.
>>> Not to me, because the number of people I've had complimenting pgAdmin 4 is probably 20x the number
>>> who have said they don't like it. Which is a good sign - normally people who don't like something
>>> are far more likely to say something.
>>>
>>> Either way, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. pgAdmin 4 is far more stable than pgAdmin 3 was,
>>> has attracted more new developers in a year than pgAdmin 3 had in 15, and continues to improve with
>>> every release. I'm very proud of the way the team have built such a complex application in such a
>>> short space of time that many people have told me they like.
>>>
>>> You can't please everyone unfortunately, but then a) it's free (despite being estimated at over $2M
>>> worth of work), and b) it's open source so those that are inclined can help improve it further.
>>>
>>> Constructive feedback is always welcome of course. In your case maybe you could explain how you're
>>> using it such that you see slow response. For me, it performs well, even on my low powered 1.2GHz
>>> MacBook. It's naturally slower than pgAdmin 3 of course, as it's not a native application, but it
>>> still outpaces my ability to drive it and I'm no slouch behind the keyboard.
>> You don't care what You users say about Your software??? That's a nice statement...
> Twisting my words is a great way to make your point. Kudos.
>
>> I've posted here a list of what is missing/wrong in new pgAdmin - did You even commented on that?
> Posted here? The website is quite clear that bugs and feature requests
> should be logged as tickets on our Redmine instance. There is no
> guarantee developers will read every message here.
>
>> What is this 'Constructive feedback'?
> Constructive feedback is that which describes an issue and steps to
> reproduce it with the aim of helping the developers resolve it, or in
> the case of a new feature, describing what is required and why it
> would be useful.
>
> Feedback along the lines of "It's crap and I hate it" is unhelpful and
> will likely be ignored.
>
>> How 4 is more stable than 3? Please explain it to us...
> Because it doesn't crash every 5 minutes? Because it doesn't go nuts
> if it loses an open database connection?
>
>> In 1.4 - query SELECT 2/0; returns
>> successfully...
> Oh? I haven't seen that logged. When I try it, I get the result in the
> attached screenshot.
>
>> And please, please explain to us how 'less and slower' is better than 'more and faster'...
> The vast majority of the "more" wasn't used by anyone. Did you ever
> create an Operator Class? Or use pgScript for example?
>
> Sure, there are some things we left out that we didn't realise users
> use - and we're adding them back in.
>
> As for the speed, yes, it's a little slower due to the architecture,
> but we're talking fractions of a second (at least on all the machines
> and virtual machines I've tested on). I know I still can't keep up
> with it. The only exception I know of is the query tool with very
> large results sets, which we've been working on and already have a WIP
> patch that makes it ~20x *faster* than pgAdmin 3 in some large test
> cases.
>
>> I must ask it - do You even work with databases? Because from how You made new pgAdmin, it looks
>> like You don't have a clue what real dbadmins do...
>>
>> You say pgAdmin 4 attracted more developers... I don't know how You measure it but for me - a guy
>> with more than 10 years work experience with PostgreSQL - it's a sign to move to another db...
>>
>> I must say - You had a possibility that few developers have - make software from scratch - and You
>> made all possible mistakes:
>> - wrong toolkit (html... really??? - so many fast, portable toolkits and You picked the slowest...)
> Oh? You have a better idea for something that we wanted to be able to
> run over the web? Java or Flash perhaps?
>
>
I think, the community should stop blaming the developers for free 
Software. That is bad, seriously.
Of course we got issues in pgAdmin4 that need to be adressed. But remember:
they made the effort from native application to crossplatform browser 
compatible.
In my opinion, the declaration as stable was too early, but with that, 
the developers got also huge feedback.
So community, stop beeing a bully and be smart and constructive. Here is 
no place for ranting, but for critic.
I know some people are upset, but clarify it. For myself, i have also 
issues with pgAdmin4.
Thats why i switched to valentina studio. I can't use it in production 
right know.
Issues are for me slow query windows, disconnects, hanging queries and 
false time measurements.
I use pgScript for example on some tricky tasks. I will come back to 
pgAdmin4 when it got more mature,
I'll also try out the releases now and then to check if things changed.

But please, stop beeing a jerk. That helps no one. And respect the work 
the develops did around pgAdmin4.