Re: [pgadmin-support] making me love pgAdmin III - Mailing list pgadmin-support

19 maja 2017 10:04 - "Dave Page" <dpage@pgadmin.org>:

> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Tomek <tomek@apostata.org> wrote:
>
>> 18 maja 2017 22:43 - "Dave Page" <dpage@pgadmin.org>:
>
> On 18 May 2017, at 21:09, Eric Hill <Eric.Hill@jmp.com> wrote:
>> Hey,
>>
>> I don’t mean to hurt anyone’s feelings or anything, but is it not obvious to everyone that pgAdmin
>> 4 (I have version 1.4) is bloody horrendous? It is absolutely as slow as Christmas. It’s use of
>> screen real-estate is poor. I was never a huge fan of pgAdmin III; I mean, it seemed to do its job
>> okay, but after using pgAdmin 4, suddenly I have newfound respect for pgAdmin III.
>
> Not to me, because the number of people I've had complimenting pgAdmin 4 is probably 20x the number
> who have said they don't like it. Which is a good sign - normally people who don't like something
> are far more likely to say something.
>
> Either way, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. pgAdmin 4 is far more stable than pgAdmin 3 was,
> has attracted more new developers in a year than pgAdmin 3 had in 15, and continues to improve with
> every release. I'm very proud of the way the team have built such a complex application in such a
> short space of time that many people have told me they like.
>
> You can't please everyone unfortunately, but then a) it's free (despite being estimated at over $2M
> worth of work), and b) it's open source so those that are inclined can help improve it further.
>
> Constructive feedback is always welcome of course. In your case maybe you could explain how you're
> using it such that you see slow response. For me, it performs well, even on my low powered 1.2GHz
> MacBook. It's naturally slower than pgAdmin 3 of course, as it's not a native application, but it
> still outpaces my ability to drive it and I'm no slouch behind the keyboard.
>> You don't care what You users say about Your software??? That's a nice statement...
>
> Twisting my words is a great way to make your point. Kudos.

Twisting... Saying "I'm not going to lose sleep over it" means what - in case of someones concerns?

>> I've posted here a list of what is missing/wrong in new pgAdmin - did You even commented on that?
>
> Posted here? The website is quite clear that bugs and feature requests
> should be logged as tickets on our Redmine instance. There is no
> guarantee developers will read every message here.

I get the bugtracker - but my first list contains 19 cases (from one day of using) - cases that
every other dbms has, and previous version had...

- no favorites
- no recent queries
- no single line select (query tool)
- no notepad
- no bracket highlight (start-end, orphan)
- after every query result columns resize to some predefined width (should stay as set)
- no possibility to detach panel to window (multi monitor setup)
- view data result is shown without oid (no option to set it up)
- view data - disabled field edit when no primary key is set (that's why oids are for!)
- cannot select and copy fields from result
- triggers does not descent to its function (it's under properties)
- no object search
- no option to change database in query tool
- history in query tool is useless - can't see query if it is little longer, no copy/paste
- only one error message for every query error: "Not connected to the server or the connection to
the server has been closed." *other error instead*
- view data last/first 100 does not work - always first 100 *fixed*
- view data query is not editable (why is it there???)
- copy button does nothing
- global copy/paste mess - in one place Ctrl+C works other not, the same for context menu

>> What is this 'Constructive feedback'?
>
> Constructive feedback is that which describes an issue and steps to
> reproduce it with the aim of helping the developers resolve it, or in
> the case of a new feature, describing what is required and why it
> would be useful.
>
> Feedback along the lines of "It's crap and I hate it" is unhelpful and
> will likely be ignored.

Nobody said this - we all gave examples what is wrong with it...

>> How 4 is more stable than 3? Please explain it to us...
>
> Because it doesn't crash every 5 minutes? Because it doesn't go nuts
> if it loses an open database connection?

That doesn't mean more stable - that means You've fixed the bug (which everybody got used to)...

>> In 1.4 - query SELECT 2/0; returns
>> successfully...
>
> Oh? I haven't seen that logged. When I try it, I get the result in the
> attached screenshot.

https://ibb.co/eBbtdF

>> And please, please explain to us how 'less and slower' is better than 'more and faster'...
>
> The vast majority of the "more" wasn't used by anyone. Did you ever
> create an Operator Class? Or use pgScript for example?

Look at the list above...

> Sure, there are some things we left out that we didn't realise users
> use - and we're adding them back in.

Some things??? See the list above.
And more:
- can't copy data from result
- can't resize rows
- no code folding
- how can i insert new row?

> As for the speed, yes, it's a little slower due to the architecture,
> but we're talking fractions of a second (at least on all the machines
> and virtual machines I've tested on). I know I still can't keep up
> with it. The only exception I know of is the query tool with very
> large results sets, which we've been working on and already have a WIP
> patch that makes it ~20x *faster* than pgAdmin 3 in some large test
> cases.

I don't see it - I see query that is running 14 seconds in v4 but 3.5 seconds in v3, seconds pass
before new query tab opens, seconds pass before browse tab opens, click properties count to 10 -
properties appear, table properties - You can see switches flipping on columns tab, try moving any
window - drags behind mouse, try put back accidentally detached tab, and so on...
In v3 3 dbs connected 4 query windows, 2 browse windows: private memory: 35 MBytes
In v4 1 db connected 1 query window: private memory: 600 MBytes
In v4 constant CPU usage around 10% (damn dashboard)

> Oh? You have a better idea for something that we wanted to be able to
> run over the web? Java or Flash perhaps?

My objection for html is for standalone app - not webapp.
You know that every major databases does not use web as primary dbms yes? But even if we use it as
a server side only (like phppgadmin) it is still slow...

As I wrote before - there are so many tookits (QT, GTK, even wxWidgets) which are cross platform,
actively maintained that have all the features suitable for dbms - and mostly fast...

--
Tomek